Platinum Market Tweaking

[Renegade343]

i'm glad you want to participate with the community, but the thing i'm having a hard time to see is the need, of said effort, who really cares of the platinum price of a burston that no one is gonna buy.

 

i would rather get a pack with 10 orokin cells, or perhaps old prime weapons directly on the market those have a better chance of being brough

Well, maybe because the prices are so high people stop caring in the first place?

[Renegade343]

Bumping back up to collect feedback and criticism. 

[UltimateSpinDash]

That is a good idea, since plat prices are weirdly balanced right now. Excalibur costs 75 plat, and is the only frame i bought with plat because I did not want to farm and build him. The fun part is, if I had collected his parts and rushed his final construction stage, it would have been more costly because I would still need a slot and a catalyst.

Also, if I remember correctly his parts are dropped by a relatively high level boss, despite being a starter frame.

 

Resource/Effort should be the deciding factors in platinum pricing.

 

Also, research resources are 10 plat for one SAMPLE. Not a completed Fieldron / Mutagen Mass / Detonite Injector, which would be understandable, but a sample. DE plz!

[Renegade343]

That is a good idea, since plat prices are weirdly balanced right now. Excalibur costs 75 plat, and is the only frame i bought with plat because I did not want to farm and build him. The fun part is, if I had collected his parts and rushed his final construction stage, it would have been more costly because I would still need a slot and a catalyst.

Also, if I remember correctly his parts are dropped by a relatively high level boss, despite being a starter frame.

 

Resource/Effort should be the deciding factors in platinum pricing.

 

Also, research resources are 10 plat for one SAMPLE. Not a completed Fieldron / Mutagen Mass / Detonite Injector, which would be understandable, but a sample. DE plz!

The completed research resource Platinum price is a hidden one, targeted solely for calculating Platinum prices for Clan Tech weaponry (it is not for sale in the Market).  

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Here is a much simpler and easier fix:

 

Just make 100 platinum = $1.  Problem solved.

[noneuklid]

I was starting a list of specific responses, but I think I'd prefer to just say that what the Market needs is a yearly review.  Regardless of how prices are adjusted now, they will need to be revisited again as the individual value of things drops within a widening pool -- and as game mechanics alter to make things more or less valuable.

[DSpite]

So? Does it matter? 

 

At the very least, I know that I have placed my effort into it, and I am proud of it. It may not come to fruition (although I sincerely want it to), but hell if I do not tackle the problem when I knowingly see it. 

 

I'm sorry, but when the game constantly sends 20% discounts at players as login awards? In one month, between me and two other friends we have seen lots of 20%, 2x50% and 1x75%, which would allow any sane person to make a single purchase of a frame and affinity booster to create a perfect "farming frame" to get everything else in the game without any more plat spends.

 

You are not meant to get everything and unlock everything. The option is there if you are playing a collecting game, in which case you MUST get extra slots to KEEP everything, and that means plat or selling mods on Trade.

 

Plat stuff is there specifically for DE to make money to continue the game. You are mistaken when you think "more people will buy plat", as the same people that don't care about spending money for it will still buy it, the ones that don't will still just sell mods like they do already, and will also have LESS incentive to ever buy any plat, as the Plat they are getting from MOD selling will now manage to GET MORE STUFF for the same amount, while if it was far more plat expensive they would have to "grind" more, and might be more likely to actually buy some Plat as a filler down the track.

[Renegade343]

Here is a much simpler and easier fix:

 

Just make 100 platinum = $1.  Problem solved.

You do realise DE(L) has to earn a profit somehow, right?

[Renegade343]

I'm sorry, but when the game constantly sends 20% discounts at players as login awards? In one month, between me and two other friends we have seen lots of 20%, 2x50% and 1x75%, which would allow any sane person to make a single purchase of a frame and affinity booster to create a perfect "farming frame" to get everything else in the game without any more plat spends.

While that is true, why can we not make the other Platinum prices on items on the Market more attractive for players even without a discount option? It would allow DE(L) to open up (or at least re-irrigate) another stream of revenue. 

 

Plat stuff is there specifically for DE to make money to continue the game. You are mistaken when you think "more people will buy plat", as the same people that don't care about spending money for it will still buy it, the ones that don't will still just sell mods like they do already, and will also have LESS incentive to ever buy any plat, as the Plat they are getting from MOD selling will now manage to GET MORE STUFF for the same amount, while if it was far more plat expensive they would have to "grind" more, and might be more likely to actually buy some Plat as a filler down the track.

While it is true that Platinum stuff is there specifically for DE(L) to make money (after all, it is a profit-seeking business), there are items in the Market that are either overpriced, slightly underpriced or just does not make sense at all (as though the price is determined by an RNG program). By tweaking the Platinum to make some sense, at least there would be more players who do want to buy Platinum will do so. It is just setting a general equilibrium price for everyone to be satisfied with it. Too expensive, and players will be deterred from buying from the Market. Too cheap, and players will perceive the products as probably half-baked and useless. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

You do realise DE(L) has to earn a profit somehow, right?

Of course, by selling 100 plat for $1.

[Renegade343]

Of course, by selling 100 plat for $1.

That is too little for DE(L) to achieve the break-even line for Warframe. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

That is too little for DE(L) to achieve the break-even line for Warframe. 

No, it's not, and it brings things to more reasonable prices.

[Renegade343]

No, it's not, and it brings things to more reasonable prices.

100 Platinum for $1? 

 

You must be joking if you think that is reasonable. If it has to be changed, 50 Platinum for $1 would be more reasonable. At least DE(L) will still gain a fair bit of profit from that. 100 Platinum for $1 is really too cheap. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

100 Platinum for $1? 

 

You must be joking if you think that is reasonable. If it has to be changed, 50 Platinum for $1 would be more reasonable. At least DE(L) will still gain a fair bit of profit from that. 100 Platinum for $1 is really too cheap. 

Even 50 is better than the current 15, and less convoluted than what you are suggesting. With the 75% off discount, plat is, what, 60 plat for $1 anyway.

Edited July 21, 2014 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Renegade343]

Even 50 is better than the current 15, and less convoluted than what you are suggesting. With the 75% off discount, plat is, what, 60 plat for $1 anyway.

Even though I did suggest 50 Platinum for $1 being more reasonable, it would not favour DE(L), even though it may earn a bit of profit. What we want to do is set an equilibrium price for the purchase of Platinum so that both DE(L) and players are willing to trade for it. What I would actually suggest is bump it up to 25 Platinum for $1. That way, it should actually help to gain more profit from the current prices. 

 

As for my suggestion, it is to make buying equipment with Platinum worth it. For instance, in the original post, a Burston costs 120 Platinum and a Grinlok costs 150 Platinum, yet the Grinlok is very much superior to the Burston for a meagre 30 Platinum. Thus, my suggestion is to link Platinum prices with the power of the equipment. More weaker/beginner equipment, lower Platinum price. More stronger/veteran equipment, higher Platinum price. 

[Renegade343]

Updated the original post to make the Platinum prices more balanced and attempt to provide a better compromise between DE(L) and players in terms of Platinum prices. 

[(XBOX)Salted Apples]

I agree to this lol

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

100 Platinum for $1? 

 

You must be joking if you think that is reasonable. If it has to be changed, 50 Platinum for $1 would be more reasonable. At least DE(L) will still gain a fair bit of profit from that. 100 Platinum for $1 is really too cheap. 

 

If the current prices (for frames and weapons) were held, it wouldn't be. Actually, there would probably be more incentive for people to buy platinum, because then they could buy stuff without thinking about it. With the current model, some Warframes will set you back $15 or more. I'm willing to bet 90% or more of players in this game will never consider buying stuff because of the high platinum costs. It would be better for the game if a slight majority of players was constantly making impulse purchases than it is right now with a minority of players funding the game for everyone.

 

For the cost of getting Ash, a Cernos, Hikou, Skana, and Shade Sentinel (let's say I was getting a stealth build with easily obtained items), I would have to pay about $60. I could buy a whole new game for the same price as a new loadout setup! With 100 plat for 1 dollar, now I could buy a loadout for just under $10. I would even say that's slightly too much. Ash should cost about $3, as with most frames. The Cernos and Hikou should be about $1.50 each (the Skana shouldn't even cost platinum), and pets should be around $2. Those are prices that seem more reasonable, and would encourage more people to buy things.

Edited September 22, 2014 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Renegade343]

If the current prices (for frames and weapons) were held, it wouldn't be. Actually, there would probably be more incentive for people to buy platinum, because then they could buy stuff without thinking about it. With the current model, some Warframes will set you back $15 or more. I'm willing to bet 90% or more of players in this game will never consider buying stuff because of the high platinum costs. It would be better for the game if a slight majority of players was constantly making impulse purchases than it is right now with a minority of players funding the game for everyone.

 

For the cost of getting Ash, a Cernos, Hikou, Skana, and Shade Sentinel (let's say I was getting a stealth build with easily obtained items), I would have to pay about $60. I could buy a whole new game for the same price as a new loadout setup! With 100 plat for 1 dollar, now I could buy a loadout for just under $10. I would even say that's slightly too much. Ash should cost about $3, as with most frames. The Cernos and Hikou should be about $1.50 each (the Skana shouldn't even cost platinum), and pets should be around $2. Those are prices that seem more reasonable, and would encourage more people to buy things.

While the current Platinum price of items can be very high at times, making it dirt cheap is not the way to go. DE(L)'s employees does need to live, and the business needs to pay its expenses. Which is why I am trying to tweak pricing so that players would want to buy a few things if they have the urge to, and DE(L) can continue generating good revenue from it. 

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

While the current Platinum price of items can be very high at times, making it dirt cheap is not the way to go. DE(L)'s employees does need to live, and the business needs to pay its expenses. Which is why I am trying to tweak pricing so that players would want to buy a few things if they have the urge to, and DE(L) can continue generating good revenue from it. 

 

But you're operating under the assumption that the same number of people will buy platinum. If tons of new players are willing to buy a couple items, DE's going to do a lot better than if they have to struggle to keep the old players, the few who were willing to buy $15 weapons and $85 Stalker packs from the start, interested in overpriced items. And I don't think $10 for a new loadout is "dirt cheap". Rather, it's cheap enough that I wouldn't think about spending it too much, while being pricey enough that it would add up over time.

 

Maybe I'm pricing platinum too low, but I guarantee if there were some way to make a regression curve that showed maximum profit vs. price of platinum, DE would make more money by bringing it much closer to $1 for 100 plat than where it is now.

[Renegade343]

But you're operating under the assumption that the same number of people will buy platinum. If tons of new players are willing to buy a couple items, DE's going to do a lot better than if they have to struggle to keep the old players, the few who were willing to buy $15 weapons and $85 Stalker packs from the start, interested in overpriced items. And I don't think $10 for a new loadout is "dirt cheap". Rather, it's cheap enough that I wouldn't think about spending it too much, while being pricey enough that it would add up over time.

I am not assuming that the same number of people would buy Platinum in the original post at all. The only thing I am assuming is the time-to-Platinum conversion. That is about it. 

 

As for a new loadout, I would price it at around $15. $10 is a bit too much on the cheap side. And by dirt cheap, I was referring to your pricing on the Cernos and Hikou, not the loadout. 

 

Maybe I'm pricing platinum too low, but I guarantee if there were some way to make a regression curve that showed maximum profit vs. price of platinum, DE would make more money by bringing it much closer to $1 for 100 plat than where it is now.

I would see it be more reasonable to have $1 for around 50-60 Platinum (really, $1 for 100 Platinum is a bit too much on the cheap side, and would make players just buy Platinum and then buy the weapons without having to play for it, bypassing most of the gameplay that is in Warframe [granted, it is still developing in some places (and can be repetitive), but there is some gameplay to it]. If anything, the maximum would be $1 for 70 Platinum, but that would probably not be received too well by the high-ups). 

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I am not assuming that the same number of people would buy Platinum in the original post at all. The only thing I am assuming is the time-to-Platinum conversion. That is about it. 

 

As for a new loadout, I would price it at around $15. $10 is a bit too much on the cheap side. And by dirt cheap, I was referring to your pricing on the Cernos and Hikou, not the loadout. 

 

I would see it be more reasonable to have $1 for around 50-60 Platinum (really, $1 for 100 Platinum is a bit too much on the cheap side, and would make players just buy Platinum and then buy the weapons without having to play for it, bypassing most of the gameplay that is in Warframe [granted, it is still developing in some places (and can be repetitive), but there is some gameplay to it]. If anything, the maximum would be $1 for 70 Platinum, but that would probably not be received too well by the high-ups). 

 

Cernos and Hikou aren't difficult weapons to obtain, hence the cost I gave them. For a weapon like the Soma, I would suggest a price closer to $3. So for a better loadout, you'd be looking at something closer to $15, although I'd say around $12.

 

And why would a new player buy weapons for the game just to bypass the gameplay? What's the point? Unless you mean grinding, which is part of why they'd buy the weapons in the first place. Besides, with the mod system, new players can't skip a lot of content. They'd get shredded trying to skip to high levels unless properly equipped.

[Renegade343]

Cernos and Hikou aren't difficult weapons to obtain, hence the cost I gave them. For a weapon like the Soma, I would suggest a price closer to $3. So for a better loadout, you'd be looking at something closer to $15, although I'd say around $12.

I am tying prices to material cost, Orokin Catalyst/Reactor costs and time-to-Platinum cost, not setting them arbitrarily. While it may not reflect its power as accurately as it should be, it does provide a solid formula for players to understand how the costs are given. 

 

And why would a new player buy weapons for the game just to bypass the gameplay? What's the point? Unless you mean grinding, which is part of why they'd buy the weapons in the first place. Besides, with the mod system, new players can't skip a lot of content. They'd get shredded trying to skip to high levels unless properly equipped.

The point is to get to the higher levels more quickly (because lower levels get boring), regardless of whether they have mods or not. And setting prices too low does remove most of the gameplay in Warframe (since you do not need to play for materials [and possibly mod trading to further not needing to play, since Platinum is brought]), and we need to preserve what we have. I am tweaking around with the prices (and the way to calculate it so that both players and DE(L) can be happy with the price (i.e.: setting equilibrium price). 

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I am tying prices to material cost, Orokin Catalyst/Reactor costs and time-to-Platinum cost, not setting them arbitrarily. While it may not reflect its power as accurately as it should be, it does provide a solid formula for players to understand how the costs are given. 

 

The point is to get to the higher levels more quickly (because lower levels get boring), regardless of whether they have mods or not. And setting prices too low does remove most of the gameplay in Warframe (since you do not need to play for materials [and possibly mod trading to further not needing to play, since Platinum is brought]), and we need to preserve what we have. I am tweaking around with the prices (and the way to calculate it so that both players and DE(L) can be happy with the price (i.e.: setting equilibrium price). 

 

I think your idea is a step in the right direction. There would have to be tweaks for certain items (Dread is very cheap resource wise), but I think it would make a good guideline for how DE should price their weapons.

 

What I'm directly disputing is that the cost of platinum isn't too high. RIght now, your proposed Nyx setup would cost around $25 plat. That's an improvement over what we have currently, but I could still get entire new games for less than I could get a small number of new items (around 8 or 9). My issue is that the current pricing discourages impulse buying.

 

And if you believe the lower levels get boring, why should new players have to play through them? They would just be more likely to get burnt out on the game. What you're talking about with boring gameplay is a separate issue entirely

[Renegade343]

I think your idea is a step in the right direction. There would have to be tweaks for certain items (Dread is very cheap resource wise), but I think it would make a good guideline for how DE should price their weapons.

 

What I'm directly disputing is that the cost of platinum isn't too high. RIght now, your proposed Nyx setup would cost around $25 plat. That's an improvement over what we have currently, but I could still get entire new games for less than I could get a small number of new items (around 8 or 9). My issue is that the current pricing discourages impulse buying.

Then again, it is the high(-ish) cost or spending quite a bit of time getting an Infestation Outbreak on a boss node, then killing Phorid to get three parts, then getting the various materials to build the components, then 3.5 days to build Nyx (assuming if you quickly claim the parts, then start building Nyx almost instantly after). 

 

And if I recall correctly, DE(L) (in one of their Devstreams) does not want to encourage that much impulse buying, and wanted players to play the game instead of just buying things. 

 

And if you believe the lower levels get boring, why should new players have to play through them? They would just be more likely to get burnt out on the game. What you're talking about with boring gameplay is a separate issue entirely

Not really boring per se (I may have used the wrong word), but more on if we were to set prices too cheap, then it would kind of make the need of unlocking new planets slightly, for lack of a better word, not needed (after all, different planets have different resources), which in turn does remove a bit of progression for new players. So, by setting prices so that it: 

 

1. Makes sense.

2. Is fairer to both players and DE(L). 

 

Then players would be more enticed to buy things from the Platinum Market if they wish so, while not overshadowing some of the need of progressing on planets, and DE(L) can still generate revenue from Warframe (its product).