Innocent_Flower Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Not realy sure why they're a thing. It's good that there's a variation system in place that means that a variation of the same mod doesn't allow for a player to stack them ( you can't have the good vitality and the poor- vitality together). This good and could be expanded upon, but by no means has update 14 made the mods better by introducing weak mods. Some of the weak mods are just straight out worse than the real things. For example Vitality. The real vitality offers 40% increase per level. The broke vitality offers less and they both start at 2 points. Forgive me if I'm wrong here: but wasn't vitality one of the most common mods in the game? You'd get like five from the first mission you spend in mercury. Isn't this bad for new players? If you wanted new players to get 'essential' mods, why wouldn't you just give them the real ones instead? The fact remains that, once you get the real mods, you're going to forget about the majority of the broken ones. You're still going to load almost every weapon with serration or hornet strike and multi-shot too. You're still going to make your do weapons several thousands of times more damaging and you're still mostly going to be modding damage. Maybe this "variant mod thing" might work wonders if there were loads of dual-stat/special versions of mods ( Rapid Redirection, steadfast redirection , Second redirection and so on and so forth) but the whole "broken cheapo version" isn't making the game better. (and yes, there are numerous ways of adding tons of variants of a mod to the game without making drop tables worse. Like mod modification with the mod module of the ship. Steel fiber+oxium= oxium fiber or something like that. ) Edited July 19, 2014 by Innocent_Flower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Allow some option to repair them, new players wont get instantly best mods(though there ranking it up too) but they can repair them and enjoy full(rank0) extent of their power. Edited July 19, 2014 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydian Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 The fact remains that, once you get the real mods, you're going to forget about the majority of the broken ones. Duh, they're designed to only be used at the lowest levels. :P They're not intended as a variation for existing players at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnat6 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 The broken mods are designed to be just good enough to hold new players over long enough to get to the real versions and they seem to be just fine for that purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 but why not give them the real versions from the start? its not like new player could max a rank10 mod anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnat6 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 but why not give them the real versions from the start? its not like new player could max a rank10 mod anyway Because that would reduce the grinding for mods and lessen the rng that new players have to go through and DE thinks that grind and rng is the only way to keep people playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonker Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Honestly they feel a bit like newbie bait to me (similar to resources in the market). New players might just end up wasting fusion cores, duplicate mods and credits to rank up the broken mods, instead of saving those up for the "real" versions of the mods. The initial idea for "starter mods" might be good, but in the end it might hurt new players more than it helps them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylia Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Vitality should be 1 Cost, true. Otherwise, the broken mods are meant to give the newbies a cheap/easy way to get them started. Serration being 2 cost + rank is nice; you only need a Rank5 weapon to get the full effect (instead of Rank6 for the same effect) and you can apply +damage to your weapon sooner (15% at Rank4 or 10% at Rank 2, 20% at Rank 3 and 30% at Rank 4). Even Veterans can find this useful: If I have a Rank4 weapon I could slap that Damaged Serration on that is ranked up partially and get 30% damage -- twice the damage as an unranked Serration would give me. When my weapon is Rank5, I could give it 40% damage instead of 30% that the regular Serration would have. Rank 2-3... Damaged Serration is the only way to go, unless it has a V polarity. Now... Redirection..... lol everybody uses Auras to get a good Redirection on from the start, so this is less useful. And Vitality is broken because it has the same cost as the regular Vitality. Honestly they feel a bit like newbie bait to me (similar to resources in the market). New players might just end up wasting fusion cores, duplicate mods and credits to rank up the broken mods, instead of saving those up for the "real" versions of the mods. The initial idea for "starter mods" might be good, but in the end it might hurt new players more than it helps them. Don't damaged mods require less Fusion to rank them up, though? And these things drop like candy from Lv1 missions; Ranking a mod up to 3 only takes 8 of the same mod (assuming it ain't cheaper for Damaged mods) and what, 1k credits or something like that? Edited July 19, 2014 by Xylia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonker Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Sure, it isn't extremely expensive to max out these damaged mods, but it's still resources you could invest in real mods instead. Especially if they don't realize straight away that there a better versions of the mods just right around the corner a few missions later. If it was me maxing out one of these mods, then get the better one two missions later, I'd probably just be annoyed by it. Edited July 19, 2014 by Zonker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocent_Flower Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 Duh, they're designed to only be used at the lowest levels. :P They're not intended as a variation for existing players at all. Dude, the better answer to that would be 'fix scalling" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverslices Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Not realy sure why they're a thing. It's good that there's a variation system in place that means that a variation of the same mod doesn't allow for a player to stack them ( you can't have the good vitality and the poor- vitality together). This good and could be expanded upon, but by no means has update 14 made the mods better by introducing weak mods. Some of the weak mods are just straight out worse than the real things. For example Vitality. The real vitality offers 40% increase per level. The broke vitality offers less and they both start at 2 points. Forgive me if I'm wrong here: but wasn't vitality one of the most common mods in the game? You'd get like five from the first mission you spend in mercury. Isn't this bad for new players? If you wanted new players to get 'essential' mods, why wouldn't you just give them the real ones instead? The fact remains that, once you get the real mods, you're going to forget about the majority of the broken ones. You're still going to load almost every weapon with serration or hornet strike and multi-shot too. You're still going to make your do weapons several thousands of times more damaging and you're still mostly going to be modding damage. Maybe this "variant mod thing" might work wonders if there were loads of dual-stat/special versions of mods ( Rapid Redirection, steadfast redirection , Second redirection and so on and so forth) but the whole "broken cheapo version" isn't making the game better. (and yes, there are numerous ways of adding tons of variants of a mod to the game without making drop tables worse. Like mod modification with the mod module of the ship. Steel fiber+oxium= oxium fiber or something like that. ) Please be trolling please.... I guess your not. The whole point of the broken mods is so new players have something to start with. Then as they progress they gain stronger mods. So yes you could say that the whole point is the new players forgetting about the weak ones for good ones. Dude, the better answer to that would be 'fix scalling" Another nugget of wisdom!! "Fix scaling" Hmmm... Scaling has nothing to do with this. Scaling involves enemy difficulty and quantity. Scaling has nothing to do with item drops, unless you are talking about how many enemies spawn. DE got that part right in the tutorial. No need to change that. I'm not saying you are yet, but you are getting pretty close to talking straight out your @$$. I would hate for that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydian Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I think he means changing the mod scaling, like lower the minimum number of points needed on a mod so newbies can mod up quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidGhost Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 The most of the mods the Veteran players get cannot be considered as a reward yet before talking about mods DE have to create monstrosities as enemies what we face is more than easy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverslices Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Dude, the better answer to that would be 'fix scalling" I think he means changing the mod scaling, like lower the minimum number of points needed on a mod so newbies can mod up quicker. Alright I see. Lower the requirements for ALL fusing of mods, so it's easier to get them up. The thing is that's it's already easy! Any mod will immediately reach rank 1 when fused with itself. It will reach rank two with an additional two duplicates, and rank three with an additional 4 duplicates after that. It doesn't take that much effort to get mods off the ground. The reason that DE put broken mods in was so new players could get ALL of the mods they needed. Not just Redirection or Vitality, but also Focus, Continuity, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Alright I see. Lower the requirements for ALL fusing of mods, so it's easier to get them up. The thing is that's it's already easy! Any mod will immediately reach rank 1 when fused with itself. It will reach rank two with an additional two duplicates, and rank three with an additional 4 duplicates after that. It doesn't take that much effort to get mods off the ground. The reason that DE put broken mods in was so new players could get ALL of the mods they needed. Not just Redirection or Vitality, but also Focus, Continuity, etc. Lower effects of mods so they wont be mandatory anymore and adjust enemy to provide some challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grillv20 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Not realy sure why they're a thing. It's good that there's a variation system in place that means that a variation of the same mod doesn't allow for a player to stack them ( you can't have the good vitality and the poor- vitality together). This good and could be expanded upon, but by no means has update 14 made the mods better by introducing weak mods. Some of the weak mods are just straight out worse than the real things. For example Vitality. The real vitality offers 40% increase per level. The broke vitality offers less and they both start at 2 points. Forgive me if I'm wrong here: but wasn't vitality one of the most common mods in the game? You'd get like five from the first mission you spend in mercury. Isn't this bad for new players? If you wanted new players to get 'essential' mods, why wouldn't you just give them the real ones instead? The fact remains that, once you get the real mods, you're going to forget about the majority of the broken ones. You're still going to load almost every weapon with serration or hornet strike and multi-shot too. You're still going to make your do weapons several thousands of times more damaging and you're still mostly going to be modding damage. Maybe this "variant mod thing" might work wonders if there were loads of dual-stat/special versions of mods ( Rapid Redirection, steadfast redirection , Second redirection and so on and so forth) but the whole "broken cheapo version" isn't making the game better. (and yes, there are numerous ways of adding tons of variants of a mod to the game without making drop tables worse. Like mod modification with the mod module of the ship. Steel fiber+oxium= oxium fiber or something like that. ) Why does it matter if they dont get the best mods right out the gate? Broken mods are good enough to do at least the first 4 planets until they get the mods they need, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)ELIT3_EXP3RT-01 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 They helped Jeremy and I. I think he means changing the mod scaling, like lower the minimum number of points needed on a mod so newbies can mod up quicker.Similar to the old enemy scaling? Where their damage and health never capped, or just using less fusion cores in general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverslices Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Lower effects of mods so they wont be mandatory anymore and adjust enemy to provide some challenge. Do you know what youre asking for? You are asking for a rework of the ENTIRE mod system. Also here are a few things to note. -No mods are mandatory. Dont want to put on serration? Fine! Dont do it! -Want more challenging enemies? THEN GO TO A DIFFERENT PLANET FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! DE isnt going to hold your hand and lead you to more challenging enemies and missions. Go there yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnat6 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Do you know what youre asking for? You are asking for a rework of the ENTIRE mod system. Also here are a few things to note. -No mods are mandatory. Dont want to put on serration? Fine! Dont do it! -Want more challenging enemies? THEN GO TO A DIFFERENT PLANET FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! DE isnt going to hold your hand and lead you to more challenging enemies and missions. Go there yourself. No he is asking for the mods to be rebalanced and a complete rework of the enemy scaling system the mod system itself works it could be better but it is functional. If you are going to disagree with someone at least get their argument right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tehnoobshow Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 They're called damaged for a reason. I'm pretty sure most people will realize that there's a better version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Do you know what youre asking for? You are asking for a rework of the ENTIRE mod system. Also here are a few things to note. -No mods are mandatory. Dont want to put on serration? Fine! Dont do it! -Want more challenging enemies? THEN GO TO A DIFFERENT PLANET FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! DE isnt going to hold your hand and lead you to more challenging enemies and missions. Go there yourself. 5000% difference is mandatory, mandatory in sense that damage increase will be required for some content and you cant get it any other way. And no it wouldnt require reworking entire mod systemm it would simply require to cut that 5000% difference to 500% or less (no infact im gonna leave that for devs to figure out)damage increase is what i believe is needed to improve new players experience, balance this game and introduce truly challenging content. Theres no planet that can handle 7,5k dps not to mention 16 or 21k. And you cant ask player to gimp themselves just to increase difficulty, that will never work, for many many many reasons. Edited July 19, 2014 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverslices Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 [quote name="Davoodoo" post="3090991" timestamp="1405810108" Theres no planet that can handle 7,5k dps not to mention 16 or 21k. And you cant ask player to gimp themselves just to increase difficulty, that will never work, for many many many reasons. Then go to void. It gets tough there. Or nightmare missions!! 5000% difference is mandatory, mandatory in sense that damage increase will be required.... 5000%? Check your math Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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