nightfighter000 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 i think ash and the stalker are related or in link in some way like maybe the stalker is ash's mentor or ash is the student of the stalker if any one can confirm this please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 STALKER PRIME CONFIRMED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKage Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Ash Prime plus Half Life 3 Confirmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auramaru Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 booben prime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vane- Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) I highly doubt it. Stalker and Ash only share the idle animation, nothing else. So, Stalker uses Excalibur, Nyx and Ash's powers that makes them his students? Edited July 23, 2014 by Haldos Cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The stalker could not have mentored any of our frames. In his lore it says "some have walked these desolate worlds while you slept", and during the time of the Orokin he was a "low Guardian", set apart from the tenno. The only contact he's had with the tenno is seeing them from a distance during the fall of the Orokin and then trying to kill them after they woke up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightfighter000 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 guys please note its only a thought ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 As much as kids love to argue, i highly doubt it. Stalker and Ash only share the idle animation, nothing else. So, Stalker uses Excalibur, Nyx and Ash's powers that makes them his students? Maybe yes ? dun dun dun ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightfighter000 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 so its possible that ash and the stalker have some kind of past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Not really. Ash was sleeping while the stalker as we know him was active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 i think ash and the stalker are related or in link in some way like maybe the stalker is ash's mentor or ash is the student of the stalker if any one can confirm this please let me know my user name is nightfighter000 Wat? Stalker isn't a Tenno. He's no one's mentor. He just uses the mods of Ash, Excalibur, and Nyx. But he's not a Tenno. At this point I don't need to prove it because it's been said enough. But since you're new to the forums, I'll just say this. He doesn't refer to himself as a Tenno while specifically calling out the Tenno for their betrayal of the Orokin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignalWarden Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) It seems like a stretch. Stalker feels more Excalibury to me. Edited July 23, 2014 by Haldos Cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElHefe Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) I sense Derailing.... You just have to ignore the trolls. Here, here! I ask you, what has happened to civil discourse? Has polite and well considered posts given way to school yard jeering? Please ... To paraphrase, the question posed was: Could there be a special link or unrevealed relationship between Ash and Stalker? IMHO that is a legitimate question given the universally agreed lack of an incontrovertible, consistent and complete Lore What is missing from the opening post are statements to support the question I challenge anyone to conclusively disprove that there is absolutely NO connection between (the original) Ash and the Stalker Who is to say that they weren't once brothers, one became a Tenno the other had to be satisfied with being a low Guardian and then stunned to see his own brother betray the Orokin whose attention the Stalker never was able to gain? So, my reply to the thread question is as follows: 1. Any resemblance between the Stalker and Ash with regards to the black smoke that envelops their warframes is of uncertain significance 2. Ash and Stalker outwardly have different exo-suits, with the Stalker's body looking almost identical to Excalibur but the helmet is warped and twisted - not symmetrical like all other warframes 3. It is not certain whether the Stalker wears a true warframe as they were developed specifically for the Void-energy exposed Tenno and the Stalker - as best we know - is not a Tenno and in his Codex specifically distinguishes himself from the Orokin-Era Tenno 4. It is unlikely that the Stalker had anything to do with the training of the original Ash as who ever the Stalker later becomes was a "low Guardian" at the time of the Old War (between the Orokin and the Sentients) 5. It is completely unknown who trained the Tenno What is known is that Orokin sent the Tenno into the Void - apparently as a desperate last-ditch effort to find some way to beat the nearly victorious Sentients What is known is that the Orokin crafted waframes for the Tenno who survived the Void and that they made specific versions of warframes to suit each Tenno's unique power/ability What is not known for sure is whether the Orokin DESIGNED the warframe or ADAPTED from some other source ... Last thought ... Is it not possible that the Stalker is the product of the last remaining Orokin who made a final warframe just for a nonTenno (but can still use Void energy or some variant of that as Stalker uses MODS like warframes do) so that they could die knowing that they might yet be avenged? Edited July 23, 2014 by ElHefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I challenge anyone to conclusively disprove that there is absolutely NO connection between (the original) Ash and the Stalker Well as with many things in our lore it's impossible to conclusively prove anything, but what we do know points to the stalker not having any sort of interaction with the tenno (other than trying to murder them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Well as with many things in our lore it's impossible to conclusively prove anything, but what we do know points to the stalker not having any sort of interaction with the tenno (other than trying to murder them) We know he's not Tenno. He clearly makes distinction between himself, a Guardian, and the Tenno, who were being celebrated for bringing victory during the War. The Stalker was not being celebrated. The Tenno were. If the Stalker was a Tenno, he'd have been standing with the Tenno, being celebrated. Again, he was not. It is absolutely clear that the Stalker is not a Tenno. We don't know how he acquires an Excalibur frame, but that's what he uses. At some point he obviously got his mods from an Excalibur, an Ash, and a Nyx. I'd imagine that he would've had to travel to the Void to be able to have powers, and then he would have gotten mods from those frames. ^all this above is based on Stalker's Codex entry. It's deductive reasoning based on critical analysis of that entry. What is below is speculation: It's possible that the Stalker built his own warframe in the Void, fashioning it like the Excalibur frame in order to appear as a Tenno. Or he could've killed a Tenno (we know it's not hard to kill a Tenno - just look at how we die pretty easily) and taken that Tenno's Excalibur frame. In either case, he obviously crafted his own helmet, and styles his weapons after Tenno weapons (take a look at the Stalker weapons, and then at certain weapons like the Kama, the Kunai, and the Paris - note the similarities). And also, as I now tell everyone regarding lore: Don't read the Wiki's Story and History page. It is 90% or so speculation. It is not fact. DE does not maintain the wiki, therefore it is not a credible source on lore. The only true source on lore is what DE says and what is in the game files. And until DE contradicts what's in the game files, go with what's in the game. That includes datamined stuff until DE overrides that, which has happened, especially with character names and factions. Edited July 23, 2014 by AntoineFlemming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 We know he's not Tenno. He clearly makes distinction between himself, a Guardian, and the Tenno, who were being celebrated for bringing victory during the War. The Stalker was not being celebrated. The Tenno were. If the Stalker was a Tenno, he'd have been standing with the Tenno, being celebrated. Again, he was not. It is absolutely clear that the Stalker is not a Tenno. We don't know how he acquires an Excalibur frame, but that's what he uses. At some point he obviously got his mods from an Excalibur, an Ash, and a Nyx. I agree. It seems most likely to me that he's not even wearing a warframe, just an orokin zero-tech powered armor modified over the time he's been active to kill tenno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) I agree. It seems most likely to me that he's not even wearing a warframe, just an orokin zero-tech powered armor modified over the time he's been active to kill tenno. Um, look at it. It's an Excalibur frame with a different helmet. We have eyes; we can use them. It's clearly a Warframe (we don't even know what the zero-tech suits looked like, but I doubt they looked just like the Warframes). And we can't just assume that it's a placeholder. Stalker's been that way for a while now with absolutely no indication that his design will be changing. Edited July 23, 2014 by AntoineFlemming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Um, look at it. It's an Excalibur frame with a different helmet. We have eyes; we can use them. It's clearly a Warframe (we don't even know what the zero-tech suits looked like, but I doubt they looked just like the Warframes). And we can't just assume that it's a placeholder. Stalker's been that way for a while now with absolutely no indication that his design will be changing. If we're assuming the tenno are an Orokin weapon, why wouldn't they base its design off existing technologies? I assume the zero-tech suits are organic similar to the warframes, and we know Excalibur was the first warframe, so it's not too much of a stretch to assume he may have been based of existing Orokin weapons tech. It wouldn't make sense for the stalker to be wearing a warframe, as everything we know points to the warframes only working for the tenno, and we know the stalker is not a tenno. Edited July 23, 2014 by vaugahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightfighter000 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azsendi Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Here, here! I ask you, what has happened to civil discourse? Has polite and well considered posts given way to school yard jeering? Please ... To paraphrase, the question posed was: Could there be a special link or unrevealed relationship between Ash and Stalker? IMHO that is a legitimate question given the universally agreed lack of an incontrovertible, consistent and complete Lore What is missing from the opening post are statements to support the question I challenge anyone to conclusively disprove that there is absolutely NO connection between (the original) Ash and the Stalker Who is to say that they weren't once brothers, one became a Tenno the other had to be satisfied with being a low Guardian and then stunned to see his own brother betray the Orokin whose attention the Stalker never was able to gain? So, my reply to the thread question is as follows: 1. Any resemblance between the Stalker and Ash with regards to the black smoke that envelops their warframes is of uncertain significance 2. Ash and Stalker outwardly have different exo-suits, with the Stalker's body looking almost identical to Excalibur but the helmet is warped and twisted - not symmetrical like all other warframes 3. It is not certain whether the Stalker wears a true warframe as they were developed specifically for the Void-energy exposed Tenno and the Stalker - as best we know - is not a Tenno and in his Codex specifically distinguishes himself from the Orokin-Era Tenno 4. It is unlikely that the Stalker had anything to do with the training of the original Ash as who ever the Stalker later becomes was a "low Guardian" at the time of the Old War (between the Orokin and the Sentients) 5. It is completely unknown who trained the Tenno What is known is that Orokin sent the Tenno into the Void - apparently as a desperate last-ditch effort to find some way to beat the nearly victorious Sentients What is known is that the Orokin crafted waframes for the Tenno who survived the Void and that they made specific versions of warframes to suit each Tenno's unique power/ability What is not known for sure is whether the Orokin DESIGNED the warframe or ADAPTED from some other source ... Last thought ... Is it not possible that the Stalker is the product of the last remaining Orokin who made a final warframe just for a nonTenno (but can still use Void energy or some variant of that as Stalker uses MODS like warframes do) so that they could die knowing that they might yet be avenged? Very interesting and valid. -off topic- I kinda ment about others making fun of the OP's name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 If we're assuming the tenno are an Orokin weapon, why wouldn't they base its design off existing technologies? I assume the zero-tech suits are organic similar to the warframes, and we know Excalibur was the first warframe, so it's not too much of a stretch to assume he may have been based of existing Orokin weapons tech. It wouldn't make sense for the stalker to be wearing a warframe, as everything we know points to the warframes only working for the tenno, and we know the stalker is not a tenno. The Tenno as Orokin "weapons"? They're Orokin warriors. Why are we assuming anything about the zero-tech suits? Let's just go based on the in-game assets: Stalker does not have his own model. He uses the same model that Excalibur uses. The Stalker only has a helmet. He borrows the model of his frame from Excalibur. it is quite literally Excalibur with a different helmet. We can try to pretend like this isn't the case (the only reason to do this is if one personally doesn't like the idea of the Stalker using the same frame as Excalibur). As well, we know that the Warframes are designed for people exposed to the Void. Given that the Stalker specifically uses specific Warframe powers, yes, I'd say that he has to have been exposed to the Void in order to use the powers that he has. And again, the Warframes aren't "weapons". They're suits that have powers. We don't even know whether or not zero-tech suits were made after the Warframes or before. But the regular Orokin soldiers would have had no need for suits that looked like technocyte and that channeled Void energy. Just the look of the Warframes goes with the idea of the Tenno as Technocyte-infested, Void-corrupted people. So I'm going with the Stalker having an Excalibur frame with a different helmet, since that's what his character model actually is, until DE decides to contradict that with some more lore. I'm not going to make assumptions that have no basis until we get some more lore. And believe me, I'm tired of the lack of lore. I want to see what the Orokin were like. I want to see what their soldiers were like, what their weapons were like, what their civilians and military were like. At least this past Update 14 released some new info. We know now that the Orokin had some royal structure, given Vor's (I think it was Vor) reference to an Orokin prince. As well, I'm inclined to think that there was only one of each Warframe+Tenno combination (otherwise, why was there only one Mirage that was lost forever when she died, requiring the Tenno to find her frame? Sure, every player can play the quest, but that's a game limitation as it doesn't make sense for every single Mirage to have died the same way with the same conversation with the Lotus). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffle Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Breeding Grounds was an inside job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 -snip- You are essentially correct, but based off the wording of the Excalibur prime lore I get the impression they're less warriors than brainwashed living weapons. Personally I'm hoping they don't release too much lore on the Orokin, keeping them shrouded in mystery just feels right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightfighter000 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 me and my friends had a feeling that the louts t can not be trusted plus she could have a different motive for us tennos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElHefe Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The Tenno as Orokin "weapons"? They're Orokin warriors. The Stalker only has a helmet. He borrows the model of his frame from Excalibur. it is quite literally Excalibur with a different helmet. Speaking only for myself, I think the designation of "weapon" has validity as it connotes dehumanization of the soldier (which is a person) to a thing While the Orokin clearly had a formal system of ethics (ref. Ember's Codex and "protocol" and children), they were driven - like so many nations past and present - to break with their morality out of self preservation It is precisely the moral ambiguity of war and conflict that drives the interest in the Warframe story ... otherwise, we are nothing but the Orkin Man and just doing our job, killing pests and bugs ... Secondly, as there is no other example of being able to switch helmets between warframes, exactly how the Stalker exo-suit was made is by no means clear The deformed asymmetry of the Stalker's helmet is in total contrast all the other warframes Something way, way off standard methods were employed to make that frame Finally, to believe that a "low Guardsman" would have the technical know how to build a warframe on his own is stretching credibility ... He had to have help - the question is from whom? Personally, I think it would be a surviving Orokin scientist/physician/technician/bioengineer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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