Discussing About Dark Sector Alliances Having Too High Taxes

[DirkDeadeye]

you are just confirming my point. DE supports this type of underhanded, dirty, shameful, and disgusting type of gameplay.

 

"...I think you understand this is something I don't want to see repeated"

 

..don't think so.

[Cleesus]

If he wasin't unbanned, there was going to be a S#&$storm. And if anyone thinks I was being an @$$ during the Eclipse episode is sorely mistaken, cause I would've rained fire and brimstone, alongside a lot of other people.

 

That was absolute, bullS#&$ what they did to him. He did nothing wrong, inside and outside of the game, and taking meta intervention like that because it doesn't align with a particular few's moral compass, when they design a system to emulate eve is hypocritical at the least, not to mention abusing the position of a developer, and interveining in politics that lead to his actions, outside of the alliance, and outside of player agency.

Ahh he only tried to ruin the gaming experiencing of about 3k people, no biggie tho.

 

I can understand keeping him banned as I understand the reasons for unbanning him. All tho it doesnt excuse it Im not sure anyone really knew you could be banned for such a thing. Now that we know im sure DE wont be as lenient to future people who do similar destructive activities.

[vaugahn]

 

If he wasin't unbanned, there was going to be a S#&$storm. And if anyone thinks I was being an @$$ during the Eclipse episode is sorely mistaken, cause I would've rained fire and brimstone, alongside a lot of other people.

 

That was absolute, bullS#&$ what they did to him. He did nothing wrong, inside and outside of the game, and taking meta intervention like that because it doesn't align with a particular few's moral compass, when they design a system to emulate eve is hypocritical at the least, not to mention abusing the position of a developer, and interveining in politics that lead to his actions, outside of the alliance, and outside of player agency.

 

In then end though, it doesn't really matter.

[DirkDeadeye]

Ahh he only tried to ruin the gaming experiencing of about 3k people, no biggie tho.

 

I can understand keeping him banned as I understand the reasons for unbanning him. All tho it doesnt excuse it Im not sure anyone really knew you could be banned for such a thing. Now that we know im sure DE wont be as lenient to future people who do similar destructive activities.

 

How is it ruining the experience for the entire alliance? The clan we were in, wholly didn't give a damn about the alliance. Maybe 10-15 people out of 300. I think that speaks for a lot of the clans, we got drug into that S#&$ most like a lot of other clans, and to be perfectly honest the actions of the alliance were doing more damage than what skitz0 has done to it himself. Multi-hour meetings, guilt beatings about not supporting some ego driven agenda.. I think he did a lot of people a favor, and a few people a disservice.

 

And when you impliment a system like this, and just throw your hands up and walk away. You have no right to step in when you 'feel' that someone's been wronged.

 

If skitz0 got banned/unbanned, but yet scolded and made an example of, why haven't they stepped in and done something about what had happened during the DDoS attacks? I'm not even pointing fingers at the ones responsible, but that was just as unfair.

[Cleesus]

How is it ruining the experience for the entire alliance? The clan we were in, wholly didn't give a damn about the alliance. Maybe 10-15 people out of 300. I think that speaks for a lot of the clans, we got drug into that S#&$ most like a lot of other clans, and to be perfectly honest the actions of the alliance were doing more damage than what skitz0 has done to it himself. Multi-hour meetings, guilt beatings about not supporting some ego driven agenda.. I think he did a lot of people a favor, and a few people a disservice.

 

And when you impliment a system like this, and just throw your hands up and walk away. You have no right to step in when you 'feel' that someone's been wronged.

 

If skitz0 got banned/unbanned, but yet scolded and made an example of, why haven't they stepped in and done something about what had happened during the DDoS attacks? I'm not even pointing fingers at the ones responsible, but that was just as unfair.

You cant excuse destructive behavior by saying a few people didnt like such and such so my behavior is acceptable because of that.

Edited August 6, 2014 by theclinton

[DirkDeadeye]

You cant excuse destructive behavior by saying a few people didnt like such and such so my behavior is acceptable because of that.

 

I can, because it was well within the rules of the game. Morally? that's opinion. But administratively , absulotely no reason for corrective action, they had no idea why he did it, just a knee jerk reaction after realizing their 'end game' was so easy to thwart.

[Cleesus]

I can, because it was well within the rules of the game. Morally? that's opinion. But administratively , absulotely no reason for corrective action, they had no idea why he did it, just a knee jerk reaction after realizing their 'end game' was so easy to thwart.

I guess we will just disagree on this issue

[Lediard]

Never thought I'd see the day when I agreed 100% with something Dirk said, but here we are. 

[ViLeDeth]

 

 

 

 

In then end though, it doesn't really matter.

 

 

Oh S#&$... 

[DirkDeadeye]

Never thought I'd see the day when I agreed 100% with something Dirk said, but here we are. 

 

Honestly I'm a product of my enviroment, when I'm swarmed with combatative people, I get nasty. Otherwise I'm generally nice and playful. :P

[ViLeDeth]

Honestly I'm a product of my enviroment, when I'm swarmed with combatative people, I get nasty. Otherwise I'm generally nice and playful. :P

I like to get nasty and playful.

[Drasiel]

 

You cant excuse destructive behavior by saying a few people didnt like such and such so my behavior is acceptable because of that.

I can, because it was well within the rules of the game. Morally? that's opinion. But administratively , absulotely no reason for corrective action, they had no idea why he did it, just a knee jerk reaction after realizing their 'end game' was so easy to thwart.

 

Here's the thing though Dirk, Skitz wasn't really within the rules, at least not according to the beta agreement

 

"3. Community behavior is of the utmost important to us. We want to ensure our community has the best possible Warframe experience and that depends as much on you as it does on the Game. You must agree to be respectful, abide by the rules, play honestly, and be nice. Read our Code of Conduct for community rules in the forums. Bottom line: be a decent human being."

(link: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/28-open-beta-agreement-read-me/)

 

Now that is vague as all hell, most likely so DE can exercise discretion in what they choose to deem unacceptable. I can see both sides of the coin for why it should be punished and why it shouldn't be. Did it cause extra unnecessary frustration and problems for those on the management end of eclipse? Yes.Were there others who were causing different issues and burdens? Yes. Was skitz punished? Yes No not really, a ban that was later rescinded is nothing more than a scare. Was he given leniency and warned about further infractions at the very least? Yes. Will other such behaviour be more obviously labelled unacceptable and not be treated as leniently? I damn well hope so, otherwise there is no point in the alliances because the tools aren't there to manage something of that size effectively without fear of horrendous abuse.

 

edit: stupid weird formatting errors.

 

edit: 2 upon re reading information I had stored via the whole debacle I change my opinion slightly.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Drasiel

[PHOBIE]

When people ask about my position on illegal emigration, I've got two words. Attack dogs! No walls. No permits. Just Dogs. Attack dogs. It's time people learn that this freedom doesn't come for free. Vote for me if you want to live.

[PsychedelicSnake]

When people ask about my position on illegal emigration, I've got two words. Attack dogs! No walls. No permits. Just Dogs. Attack dogs. It's time people learn that this freedom doesn't come for free. Vote for me if you want to live.

You mean attack doges.

[PHOBIE]

I was counting on you to supply the alternate version, my friend.

[OMGYourMom]

with how high the new taxes are it kinda makes the old eclipse taxes look pretty damn good.

The thing is back then, other alliances would promote lower taxes as it would garner support. With Eclipse no longer on the star chart, they do not need to do that anymore.

[Faulcun]

 

Here's the thing though Dirk, Skitz wasn't really within the rules, at least not according to the beta agreement

 

"3. Community behavior is of the utmost important to us. We want to ensure our community has the best possible Warframe experience and that depends as much on you as it does on the Game. You must agree to be respectful, abide by the rules, play honestly, and be nice. Read our Code of Conduct for community rules in the forums. Bottom line: be a decent human being."

(link: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/28-open-beta-agreement-read-me/)

 

Now that is vague as all hell, most likely so DE can exercise discretion in what they choose to deem unacceptable. I can see both sides of the coin for why it should be punished and why it shouldn't be. Did it cause extra unnecessary frustration and problems for those on the management end of eclipse? Yes.Were there others who were causing different issues and burdens? Yes. Was skitz punished? Yes No not really, a ban that was later rescinded is nothing more than a scare. Was he given leniency and warned about further infractions at the very least? Yes. Will other such behaviour be more obviously labelled unacceptable and not be treated as leniently? I damn well hope so, otherwise there is no point in the alliances because the tools aren't there to manage something of that size effectively without fear of horrendous abuse.

 

edit: stupid weird formatting errors.

 

edit: 2 upon re reading information I had stored via the whole debacle I change my opinion slightly.

 

exactly this  ^^

 

"...I think you understand this is something I don't want to see repeated"

 

..don't think so.

 

so once again, point proven. I still stand by my statement that actions speak louder than words. Now there is visual proof (Thanks Skitz0) that DE even admits that the EULA was grossly violated, and still chose to go in a different direction. I cant say for sure, but I would suspect people have been banned for less, who have not been allowed to come back yet.

 

But make no mistake, Im not criticizing DE for their decisions. Im merely backing up my original statement:

It seems to me the devs designed this metagame to support secrecy, infiltration, corruption, and the dirtiest type of gameplay.

[RareMemeDealer]

Off Topic: If the mods coild make a designated thread for Dark Sector discussion, or even a subforum, that'd be great.

On Topic: Listen, no alliance/clan has to cater to anyone in this game, and DE is NEVER going to force them to. You know why? Because DE wants you guys to fix the problems yourselves. Dark Sectors are runby PLAYERS, so if you think DE is going to set limits on them, you're frankly wrong. If you want something done, you should do it yourself instead of crying on the forums about those 1k credits you're being taxed on node Idon'tcare. How about that?

[SmokinDevil]

Off Topic: If the mods coild make a designated thread for Dark Sector discussion, or even a subforum, that'd be great.

On Topic: Listen, no alliance/clan has to cater to anyone in this game, and DE is NEVER going to force them to. You know why? Because DE wants you guys to fix the problems yourselves. Dark Sectors are runby PLAYERS, so if you think DE is going to set limits on them, you're frankly wrong. If you want something done, you should do it yourself instead of crying on the forums about those 1k credits you're being taxed on node Idon'tcare. How about that?

 

What dis guy said.

 

The only time DE should step in is when they catch cheaters or something like Skitz0's case.

[DirkDeadeye]

Im sorry but if they're unwilling to add anything to the meta other than ego driven conquest and frown upon coupes and sleeper cells acting in the same manner that skitz0 has then the need to scrap the idea. Because that's all there is. Hell, the only incentive prior was farming rare mods from the spectres. The resource rates are a joke credits are only valued by the new and naive and that luster wears off fast.

There were no rules of engagement. There are not still to this day. Because it seems we're expected to set them, and were expected to police ourselves. But picking and choosing when to enact divine intervention based on what I perceive as saving face, or quelling the temper of a minority of "hardcore players" is wrong when; there was no leniency given to SC, or anyone else affected by the ddos attacks. Which made them suffer a much larger loss. That being losing something the entire alliance fought for over a time period of connectivity problems brought on by malicious intent by an outside party. The difference I can see between eclipse and sc are that sc was actually committed as a whole and that one node was more of a profound loss than what skitz0 had done. If Eclipse had a foundation at that time they would have bounced back. His actions should have inspired them..but they gave up. And the rhetoric I read was "DS ain't worth all this hassle" but because they folded suddenly it's a bad thing. I guarantee if they had bounced back nobody would be blowing the moral trumpets at me.

[PHOBIE]

No point in mentioning these bats, I thought. Poor bastard will see them soon enough.

[PsychedelicSnake]

No point in mentioning these bats, I thought. Poor bastard will see them soon enough.

It's simple. We, uh, kill the Batman,

[DirkDeadeye]

No point in mentioning these bats, I thought. Poor bastard will see them soon enough.

Our Vibrations were getting nasty.. but why? Was there no communication on this forum, have we deteroirated to the level of dumb beasts?

 

...

 

 

oh hell, I forgot about this beer you want one? .... how about some ether..  ... nevermind.

[PHOBIE]

Worst case scenario, you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you forwarded the cause of science by three centuries.

[Drasiel]

<snip> But picking and choosing when to enact divine intervention based on what I perceive as saving face, or quelling the temper of a minority of "hardcore players" is wrong when; there was no leniency given to SC, or anyone else affected by the ddos attacks. Which made them suffer a much larger loss. That being losing something the entire alliance fought for over a time period of connectivity problems brought on by malicious intent by an outside party. The difference I can see between eclipse and sc are that sc was actually committed as a whole and that one node was more of a profound loss than what skitz0 had done.<snip>

 

Honestly I don't know why DE didn't roll back the results of all dark sector conflicts and refund the credits that alliances put up for battlepay (without taking them from players who ran the rails, because that would have just incited a riot) during the DDOS attacks. I can only assume it is incredibly difficult or impossible for them within the systems they are using. It was a tragedy that SC fell on sechura, as well as anyone else that suffered losses due to the DDOS.

 

Edit: I'm not saying the DDOS was the only reason nodes fell, just that some players were effected worse than others (about a quarter of our clan seemed  able to play with little issue, the rest barely and some not at all) and in a pvp situation it probably would have been a better idea overall to take down the DS until the attacks were resolved.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Drasiel