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Is It Just Me Or Was Gravity In Closed Beta-Era... Better?

Kappatalist

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Kappatalist

Kappatalist

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After watching some Closed Beta footage from Warframe's childhood, I noticed (amongst other things) that the downwards acceleration due to gravity of the player character (and presumably the rest of the game world) was somewhat greater and more realistic than it is now.  Looking at Warframe's current gravity, it just feels... floaty and fake, like my Frame doesn't actually weigh anything.

 

My suspicions were mathematically confirmed by user Renegade343, who is known for his wildly interesting physical ponderings, in this thread.

[TL;DR of above link: acceleration due to gravity in Warframe's current engine is ~7.34m/s^2, less than Earth's 9.81.]

 

Furthermore, upon replicating a drop seen in a video recorded in U6, and holding my footage up to the original, it can be seen very clearly that my rate of descent is lower.

 

Gravity is an obstacle to our character's impetus which presents a challenge to navigation.  It was near the end of CB that players were given parkour-esque wallrunning as a means to overcome gravity and cross chasms with impunity. (Hard to believe it wasn't always there, huh?)

 

As such, it could be said that parkour abilities exist to allow the circumvention of gravity through more advanced maneuvers.

 

However, at some point, the gravity was reduced to what it is now, and everything falls a whole lot slower.  Frames are much more able to overcome gravity and the obstacle it inherently creates to navigation because gravity itself is weaker and much less able to impede us.  As such, parkouring is much less necessary for any sort of horizontal motion because Glitch-flinging yourself off of a wall or Zoren-coptering will take you so.  Damn.  Far.  There's almost no reason to run ON a wall anymore, so it begs the question: if the DEvs are so intent on keeping the walljump glitch (which should be removed) and coptering (which shouldn't be removed, as it actually takes skill to master) unaffected significantly by gravity, why do we still have the wallrun?  Just remove Wallrunning!

 

Of course, that's not ideal, so why do we have this floaty gravity?  If the wall-fling was fixed, and gravity was restored, I feel the game would be much better off, and players would be much more willing to use the really cool wallrunning that you put into your game.

 

Regarding "wall-flinging":

While I do believe that letting go of the wall as soon as you stick to it should count as a sort of "walljump" and convey extra velocity, the extent to which it sends you flying now is a) absurd, and b) has a tendency to "fling" you through some walls.  A lot.

 

Regarding coptering:

Coptering, on the other hand, is like the strafe-jumping of Warframe.  The little movement glitch that could (and did).  It has its place, and it takes practice to do consistently.  It might be just a bit too potent, but it generally works, and to do it well you need to sacrifice a lot of options for your melee weapon.  The mighty Dragon Nikana?  Worthless when you're after mobility.  The idea of melee as a tool for mobility is rather interesting, if not somewhat illogical.

 

Regarding "we're in space, gravity should be low":

It is a sci-fi staple to give ships a "simulated gravity" which resembles the home planet of its occupants.  The Grineer Empire is on Earth, a planet whose gravity we're all familiar with, and the Corpus are humans who hailed in some way, at some point, from Earth.  It can only be assumed, then, that that is what they would set their ship and space-station gravity to.

As for planetside gravity, it would be most accurate to consider the size and mass of every planet/moon that has surface levels and custom-tool the gravity for each accordingly.  However, in terms of an action videogame, this would probably be very disorienting and just plain annoying for players, so maintaining the 9.81 would be an ideal solution.  The one exception would be in the event of a Corpus Ship hull breach (or similar event).  How cool would it be if gravity stopped working then?  Pop a window and suddenly you're swimming through air (or rather, lack thereof), searching for a panel!

And Nightmare mode... I'm really not sure why "lowgrav" is considered to be a difficulty increaser in the first place.  I guess just leave that as is, but then again, why have it at all exactly?  At most it mildly inconveniences the player by making them slightly less comfortable.  Oh no?  Uh...

 

Anyway, that's enough textwalls for one post.  Your thoughts, readers?

Edited by Kappatalist
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Kappatalist

Kappatalist

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Mind giving two comparison videos?

 

And you're sure the low-grav person wasn't in a nightmare mission or playing zeph?

I could go ahead and make one with old CB footage and a little recording of my own.

And no, I'm not talking Nightmare or Zephyr... although on the note of Zephyr, try jumping around and controlling yourself in the air while hosting and while a client.  The difference is rather hilarious.

 

I did a calculation with the current gravity of Warframe, if you like to see it. 

Like?  I'd love to see it!

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Llyssa

Llyssa

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I'm not entirely sure that gravity was changed for everyone, and I'd also note that generally, we're in space, so we should theoretically always have lower gravity than earth(except when on earth). I mean, both of those are on an asteroid, which, by definition, has to be much smaller than earth.

 

Also, "Orokin Space Magic" is involved, so it's possible none of us fall at the rate of gravity.

 

As for why, I imagine the slowing was done for gameplay reasons(more time to react and all).

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Rydian

Rydian

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Hm, I started the day of open beta so it might have been just after that change if there was one.

 

 

There's the first Warframe video I uploaded... that was probably U7 or so, which was open beta coming out?

Things do look a little heavier.

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Kappatalist

Kappatalist

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I'm not entirely sure that gravity was changed for everyone, and I'd also note that generally, we're in space, so we should theoretically always have lower gravity than earth(except when on earth). I mean, both of those are on an asteroid, which, by definition, has to be much smaller than earth.

 

Also, "Orokin Space Magic" is involved, so it's possible none of us fall at the rate of gravity.

 

As for why, I imagine the slowing was done for gameplay reasons(more time to react and all).

1. I figure that it's assumed if we're not planetside, the craft in question has simulated gravity, which would most likely seek to emulate Earth, since the Grineer and Corpus are (derived from) humans which hailed from Earth (Earth is in fact the home of the Grineer Empire).  As for other planets having different gravity, it would make sense, but in the end it would probably just feel inconsistent and confusing.

 

2. "Orokin Space Magic" = template explanation that means about as much as a Retcon.

 

3. Understandable, but I feel like the higher gravity would give actual parkour and not spaceflying more relevance.  Consider that, with current lowgrav, entire rooms can be crossed with one maneuver.

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Kappatalist

Kappatalist

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After watching some Closed Beta footage from Warframe's childhood, I noticed (amongst other things) that the downwards acceleration due to gravity of the player character (and presumably the rest of the game world) was somewhat greater and more realistic than it is now.  Looking at Warframe's current gravity, it just feels... floaty and fake, like my Frame doesn't actually weigh anything.

 

My suspicions were mathematically confirmed by user Renegade343, who is known for his wildly interesting physical ponderings, in this thread.

[TL;DR of above link: acceleration due to gravity in Warframe's current engine is ~7.34m/s^2, less than Earth's 9.81.]

 

Furthermore, upon replicating a drop seen in a video recorded in U6, and holding my footage up to the original, it can be seen very clearly that my rate of descent is lower.

 

Gravity is an obstacle to our character's impetus which presents a challenge to navigation.  It was near the end of CB that players were given parkour-esque wallrunning as a means to overcome gravity and cross chasms with impunity. (Hard to believe it wasn't always there, huh?)

 

As such, it could be said that parkour abilities exist to allow the circumvention of gravity through more advanced maneuvers.

 

However, at some point, the gravity was reduced to what it is now, and everything falls a whole lot slower.  Frames are much more able to overcome gravity and the obstacle it inherently creates to navigation because gravity itself is weaker and much less able to impede us.  As such, parkouring is much less necessary for any sort of horizontal motion because Glitch-flinging yourself off of a wall or Zoren-coptering will take you so.  Damn.  Far.  There's almost no reason to run ON a wall anymore, so it begs the question: if the DEvs are so intent on keeping the walljump glitch (which should be removed) and coptering (which shouldn't be removed, as it actually takes skill to master) unaffected significantly by gravity, why do we still have the wallrun?  Just remove Wallrunning!

 

Of course, that's not ideal, so why do we have this floaty gravity?  If the wall-fling was fixed, and gravity was restored, I feel the game would be much better off, and players would be much more willing to use the really cool wallrunning that you put into your game.

 

Regarding "wall-flinging":

While I do believe that letting go of the wall as soon as you stick to it should count as a sort of "walljump" and convey extra velocity, the extent to which it sends you flying now is a) absurd, and b) has a tendency to "fling" you through some walls.  A lot.

 

Regarding coptering:

Coptering, on the other hand, is like the strafe-jumping of Warframe.  The little movement glitch that could (and did).  It has its place, and it takes practice to do consistently.  It might be just a bit too potent, but it generally works, and to do it well you need to sacrifice a lot of options for your melee weapon.  The mighty Dragon Nikana?  Worthless when you're after mobility.  The idea of melee as a tool for mobility is rather interesting, if not somewhat illogical.

 

Regarding "we're in space, gravity should be low":

It is a sci-fi staple to give ships a "simulated gravity" which resembles the home planet of its occupants.  The Grineer Empire is on Earth, a planet whose gravity we're all familiar with, and the Corpus are humans who hailed in some way, at some point, from Earth.  It can only be assumed, then, that that is what they would set their ship and space-station gravity to.

As for planetside gravity, it would be most accurate to consider the size and mass of every planet/moon that has surface levels and custom-tool the gravity for each accordingly.  However, in terms of an action videogame, this would probably be very disorienting and just plain annoying for players, so maintaining the 9.81 would be an ideal solution.  The one exception would be in the event of a Corpus Ship hull breach (or similar event).  How cool would it be if gravity stopped working then?  Pop a window and suddenly you're swimming through air (or rather, lack thereof), searching for a panel!

And Nightmare mode... I'm really not sure why "lowgrav" is considered to be a difficulty increaser in the first place.  I guess just leave that as is, but then again, why have it at all exactly?  At most it mildly inconveniences the player by making them slightly less comfortable.  Oh no?  Uh...

 

Anyway, that's enough textwalls for one post.  Your thoughts, readers?

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Aure7

Aure7

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never noticed anything wrong with gravity, although I have to agree with you and it is pissing me off how much they ignore the original "parkour" in this game and let other exploits and easy methods take over, which is also partly due to low gravity.

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_Fracture8

_Fracture8

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I totally agree, the floating gravity can be downright annoying and has cost me plenty of revives in the past. 

 

it is &!$$ing me off how much they ignore the original "parkour" in this game and let other exploits and easy methods take over, which is also partly due to low gravity.

 

Yeah... I would much prefer an involved parkour system where multiple options to get around a tile are available. Coptering can't be the only solution.

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DSpite

DSpite

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If I want to experience "realistic" earth gravity, I'll go outside my house, and jump off the porch.

 

I fail to see any information in the post as to what it is that you want. Since we can fall any distance and not take damage, it is obviously not a mathematically accurate calculated system in any way. The "floaty" system allows players more time to react to events while they are doing air based maneuvers.

 

Excalibur Super Jump, if you examine it, also has it's own "gravity" setting, as you seem to fall at the same speed as when you go up, and that speed does not follow realistic gravity.

 

Congratulations in spotting the fact that someone fudged some formulas in a game to improve it's playability.

 

Also, I'm a Tenno that has been to the Void and back, encased in a Warframe, I fail to see why you should be able to predict why I need to follow conventional physics, when the Void does not follow conventional Physics ...

 

... maybe it's because it's just a game and you just want to be annoying.

Edited by DSpite
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Kappatalist

Kappatalist

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I fail to see any information in the post as to what it is that you want. Since we can fall any distance and not take damage, it is obviously not a mathematically accurate calculated system in any way.

Falling damage has nothing to do with the value of acceleration from gravity other than there being (or not being) a threshold of falling speed at which damage would be sustained.  Warframes are like cats, and do not suffer the ill effects of falling fast.

 

The "floaty" system allows players more time to react to events while they are doing air based maneuvers.

Which takes a margin of skill out of the game by giving us way too much reaction time.  It has caused me so many problems, believe it or not.  Teammate bleeding out on the landing above?  Okay, let me Rip Line up- oh, sorry.  You died because I was too busy falling really goddamn slow.

 

Oh yeah, and the float nullifies the usefulness of the fleshed-out parkour system in the game.  There's that too.

 

Congratulations in spotting the fact that someone fudged some formulas in a game to improve it's playability.

Hold the congrats, please.  It's not that hard to spot.

 

I fail to see why you should be able to predict why I need to follow conventional physics, when the Void does not follow conventional Physics ...

 

... maybe it's because it's just a game and you just want to be annoying.

1. Source on the Orokin Void not following conventional physics, please.

2. I'd say it's the gravity more than anyone/thing that's annoying.

 

And finally...

Excalibur Super Jump, if you examine it, also has it's own "gravity" setting, as you seem to fall at the same speed as when you go up, and that speed does not follow realistic gravity.

Okay.  Let's do some math buddy boi.  Using practically-easy to work with numbers.

 

With Earth's gravity in mind, Excalibur Super Jumps with a force that generates an initial upwards velocity of 9.81m/s.

Acceleration from Earth gravity changes his velocity @a rate of -9.81m/s, meaning that he will reach his apex at 1 second, where he will be moving laterally @ 0m/s.

He will then start to fall at a rate determined by gravity, which, again, is -9.81m/s^2.  Assuming a flat surface where he will land at the same height he started at, Excalibur will hit the ground 2 seconds from t=0, at a velocity of 9.81m/s down at the moment before he hits the floor.

you seem to fall at the same speed as when you go up, and that speed does not follow realistic gravity.

You sho' bout dat?

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