Is It Me, Or Did The Infested Get More Stunlocky?

[AsianJoyKiller]

I could have sworn that before Friday's patch the infested were less stun-locky.

Is it me, or did the Chargers gain an increased capacity to stagger?

Because, you know, the fastest, high-damage, mob enemy totally needs that extra advantage anyway.

[BadlandsHyena]

...It certainly feels that way.

What's the point of having a cleave weapon if you get stunlocked to death anyway?

[Cleesus]

Ive been wondering the same, I didnt remember charges stunning that much but I thought it was just me. And those exploding mobs seem to have had an increase also, which is annoying.

[Xevious]

Yep, it's not just you. I've felt like this too on my most recent infested runs.

[Ferriwind]

The infested attack much more aggressively. This is probably due to leapers being able to run and attack at the same time...

[Aerensiniac]

Leapers literally stunlock you with breathing

[Deost]

The Grineer at higher level got some love too. Their ROF on the Braton guys is nuts now. One of them can take me from 800 shields to like 100 in two or three seconds flat.

The game went from ninja blitzkrieg to hiding behind cover. *yawn*

Please.. I hate using cover ALL the time now. :(

I loved it the way before.

[Symbiont71]

dayum...so many people complained it was too easy...now devs listened and it's not okay either....

 

we need difficulty toggle for missions. That would solve everything.

[FlanShark]

I don't think infested have changed? Although it would be nice to hear they fixed leapers' AI again :)

Chargers used to stagger you with literally every hit, I'm having a hard time seeing how one increases that ;)

something's certainly up with grineer RoF though but who knows if that's intentional :D it's manageable, anyway. believe me i'd be the first to complain if you had to take 1/3rd of the game at a cautious crawl now, but..

[Guest]

If they made them harder then I'm all for it

[Arbiter_of_Soul]

Well, the charger stun-locking doesn't work if you keep moving, you still take damage but don't get stunned. Mashing E while doing so makes short work of even decent sized groups of the annoying buggers. Stop in place to charge an attack though... I hope you have revives left.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Arbiter_of_Soul

[neKroMancer]

Don't really feel the change except the animation change which make them even more alien than before.

However, my main are Loki and Saryn which can troll the infest with decoy/moult while happily slashing them into pieces.

Grineer's Braton ROF increase is acknowledge as a bug.

[AsianJoyKiller]

dayum...so many people complained it was too easy...now devs listened and it's not okay either....

we need difficulty toggle for missions. That would solve everything.

There's different types of "difficulty".

One type makes it more challenging and interesting to play.

But the stun/stagger locking reliance of the Infested is an artificial difficulty mechanic, much like extremely tanky Grineer. It only makes them more challenging by adding in a mechanic that's not very creative, and is often just more frustrating than challenging.

Stun/stagger locking Infested aren't that much of a problem, and I have yet to die to it since the update despite what I perceive as an increased effectiveness, but it's not fun to fight at all. All it requires is to constantly move backwards, or hop on a box (alternately Rhino+Iron Skin+E). It requires an absolute minimum of thought to avoid.

If you do get hit, that's also not interesting to deal with, because once hit, there's not much you can do. Countering a stun/stagger lock chain consists of praying and mashing whatever key is most likely to get the frame you're using out of trouble, whether it be jumping to get out of the crowd, Invis to stop the attacks or Iron Skin to become invincible (theoretically block could work, except once you get stunned, you tend to get surrounded and the rate of attack makes it extremely unlikely you'd be able to block every hit).

Chargers used to stagger you with literally every hit

That's not true.

That's not true, at all, in the slightest.

Well, the charger stun-locking doesn't work if you keep moving, you still take damage but don't get stunned. Mashing E while doing so makes short work of even decent sized groups of the annoying buggers. Stop in place to charge an attack though... I hope you have revives left.

Mashing E only works IF you have the right melee weapon and IF you have the shields, armor or health to withstand the onslaught of Chargers quick, powerful attacks.

I'd also argue that playing a game where you constantly retreat every time you encounter a mob isn't particularly fun or interesting gameplay.

[Mikawo]

Chargers used to stagger you with literally every hit

That's not true.

That's not true, at all, in the slightest.

It's true. It's very true. This was already in before the patch last Friday. Playing solo on an infested map, I can say for sure that I was getting stunned like crazy before the patch. If you are the host, the attacks are more accurate and you get stunned a lot, but if you are not, you can just run around without getting a direct hit due to latency. Could be that they modified the netcode to be more accurate.

I'd also argue that playing a game where you constantly retreat every time you encounter a mob isn't particularly fun or interesting gameplay.

Conversely, I'd argue that strolling around without a care is not particularly fun or interesting either.

[flunkymomo]

grineer braton rof increase was really cool

[flunkymomo]

low health high damage enemies are cool in games, generally not hitscan ones though, if their attack was avoidable that'd be different

[ValhaHazred]

I didn't notice a change in infected stun-locking, and I like to charge into melee. I think the best way to treat enemy accuracy is to have them shoot a tiny bit behind the player. It would promote ninja skills, because stopping is death.

[Skytt]

My friend and I noticed this last night, but our problem was more with the disrupters.  Someone gave them aimbots or something.  They were just throwing us all over the place.

 

Being pinballed for 5-10 seconds at a time is not a fun or challenging game mechanic, it's just obnoxious at that point.  It never killed me, but we were playing defense, and it sure got the cryopod killed a couple times with literally knockdown knockdown stagger knockdown stagger stagger stagger all the while hammering dodge and yelling "WILL YOU LET ME MOVE YET?!"

Edited April 14, 2013 by Skytt

[modded]

The ancients seem more accurate now, and the chargers chance to stun seemed to drastically increase. At the end of a mission I can count on 1 hand the number of times I got hit by a charger and was NOT staggered.

[Arbiter_of_Soul]

Mashing E only works IF you have the right melee weapon and IF you have the shields, armor or health to withstand the onslaught of Chargers quick, powerful attacks.

I'd also argue that playing a game where you constantly retreat every time you encounter a mob isn't particularly fun or interesting gameplay.

I was just saying how not to get stun-locked. Also I assumed that if were to melee charge a mob of infested you had the shields/health to survive in one piece. Also I have a simple rank 30 Cronus with a few mods on it(mainly charge and normal damage) and it works like a charm even without charge attack, which simply murders anything it hits(without ancients). you don't really need all the fancy weapons and whatnot, just health and shield mods, which should be the first thing you put on the warframe, provided of course you get them, but really, they are not rare anymore, I get about 2-3 per day and I dont even play that much.

 

Anyways, I do agree that Infested chargers are probably the most annyoing enemy in the game right now because they are fast, constantly stun you if you stay in one place and swarm you with huge numbers. Feels like being charged by a zergling wave :D

[Fluffanutter]

Sonic Quake, or any AOE Skill makes short work of those guys. People forget that Radial Blast when set up Also eats Non-Ancient Infested alive, as does Slash Dash. Or if you want to make it more for everyone, I see nice results using Crowd Dispersion on my Sentinel.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Fluffanutter

[Smoke39]

Conversely, I'd argue that strolling around without a care is not particularly fun or interesting either.

 

This straw man argument is getting really tiring.  No one's asking to make the infested a pushover, we're asking for their challenge to come from mechanics that are less infuriating than constantly taking control away from the player.

[AsianJoyKiller]

It's true. It's very true. This was already in before the patch last Friday. Playing solo on an infested map, I can say for sure that I was getting stunned like crazy before the patch. If you are the host, the attacks are more accurate and you get stunned a lot, but if you are not, you can just run around without getting a direct hit due to latency. Could be that they modified the netcode to be more accurate.

Read what the guy said. He said "Chargers used to stagger you with literally every hit".

That's just not true at all.

If it were true, I'd have noticed, been killed numerous times, and become very angry. And then because of that, I would have come on to the forums and written a large wall of text about game design, frustrating mechanics and artificial difficulty.

And no, it's not me mistaking the latency issues with being hit either, as I spend most of my time playing solo.

Conversely, I'd argue that strolling around without a care is not particularly fun or interesting either.

Where did I say "make Infested so easy you can stroll around without a care"?

Oh, that's right.

I didn't.

This may blow your mind, but get this.

You can have difficult and challenging Infested without them relying on stuns and staggers.

[Zeunchainn]

Leaper used to be bugged getting stuck in the air when jumping.Now they can actualy attack.

[Mikawo]

Where did I say "make Infested so easy you can stroll around without a care"?

Oh, that's right.

I didn't.

 

Where did I say "make Infested so easy you can stroll around without a care"?

Oh, that's right.

I didn't either.

 

You made a general statement about having to retreat from enemies being bad design. I simply mentioned the opposite extreme. The idea was that too much of both is no good. Hence the use of the word "either".