The Gaming Journalism Corruption (Aka This Thread Removed In An Hour)

[notlamprey]

"I may not agree with the game you play, but I'll fight to the death for your right to play it."

 

If time travel ever (improbably) becomes a thing, I am immediately going back to tell Voltaire how incredibly relevant he still is.

Edited September 23, 2014 by notlamprey

[Ailissa]

As long as we don't name the persons who shall not be named, we should be fine.

 

Fixed it, there seems to be two of them now. Anytime I see either of those two names come up in a forum it quickly turns into a flame topic.

[notlamprey]

I'm going to link this video - it's long, so you may want to watch it directly from the channel.

 

The way I see it, the prominent names and faces are a convenient smokescreen that prevents people from focusing on the actual issue of what "gaming journalism" even means, what its role is and where it's headed.

 

[mechmoza]

Gamergate in 60 second

 

[Archistopheles]

Still going strong! #gamergate Do not support any entity that would attempt to belittle and insult any group of people - especially gamers.

[PsychedelicSnake]

It's distressing how people keep saying "True Feminists" and "People that truly want equality" should separate themselves from Gamergate. But here's the thing.I’m not going to distance myself from a movement just because said movement contains “a few bad eggs.” All ideological groups have “a few bad eggs,” it just comes with the territory.

 

Religious groups, political movements, and even feminism/social justice groups have elements associated with them that they would prefer everyone overlooked…and in all fairness, don’t represent the rest of the group as a whole. And like these religious, political, and feminist groups, Gamers (and GamerGate) do not condone the actions of these people.

 

We dislike they use a movement and an idea to further their personal hate or selfish ideals just as much as everyone else. So in all fairness, I can’t help but give the benefit of the doubt to Social Justice and the folks over at Anti-GG that the hateful, hypocritical, racist, and sexist masses in their movement are a minority. I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in that.

 

In the end, Gamers are no different than anyone else, and trying to generalize a group of over a million people based on the actions of a minority group is inherently fallacious to begin with. It has happened in the past, and it is something that people have been trying to fight. Generalization, while easy, is hurtful not only to the people involved but the people targeted. Just don’t do it.

[Egg_Chen]

I see this thread didn't get deleted after all, and it lives again!

I honestly still don't know what the deal is here, because I found enough to realise it didn't warrant my time.

 

On a somewhat related note, I did the Golden Joysticks vote thing to get a free copy of XCOM, and when I got to "personality of the year" I was literally dumbfounded for a whole minute.

 

Who are these people?

Why should I care?

Who the hell is Pewdiepie?

What does he have against pie?

 

I gather from above posts it is something to do with "Gaming Journalists".

If I'm buying a game, I watch a few Youtube gameplay vids (without commentary), read a few forums posts about any issues, and make my own decision.

 

I honestly suggest everyone do the same, but thinking for oneself seems to be a dying trend.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Egg_Chen

[PsychedelicSnake]

I see this thread didn't get deleted after all, and it lives again!

I honestly still don't know what the deal is here, because I found enough to realise it didn't warrant my time.

 

On a somewhat related note, I did the Golden Joysticks vote thing to get a free copy of XCOM, and when I got to "personality of the year" I was literally dumbfounded for a whole minute.

 

Who are these people?

Why should I care?

Who the hell is Pewdiepie?

What does he have against pie?

 

I gather from above posts it is something to do with "Gaming Journalists".

If I'm buying a game, I watch a few Youtube gameplay vids (without commentary), read a few forums posts about any issues, and make my own decision.

 

I honestly suggest everyone do the same, but thinking for oneself seems to be a dying trend.

A lot of people already go to Youtube over modern gaming journalism.

 

The problem we are having is when blatantly agenda-driven, hateful, and antagonistic "journalists" not only attack their entire userbase, but also pass off their opinions as facts. When they attempt to put too much agenda into a medium dedicated purely to entertainment and escapism. When they perform questionable and morally wrong actions in order to selfishly further themselves. It's these things that cause people like myself to take up arms against it.

[Egg_Chen]

@PsychedelicSnake

That's fair enough, and I'm not saying people shouldn't be bothered when bad stuff happens (vague I know, I just don't know enough about this!)

I've just always relied on my own opinions over those of "experts" and take anything stated to be their opinion only, which doesn't hold much sway with me.

 

One of the things I learnt studying history is you cannot rely on one person's view, even if they were present at an event.

Someone's perspective clouds everything they say, and you can't evaluate the validity of what they say unless you truly understand them and their perspective.

 

Hence I always see opinion not fact from journalists, historians, critics, etc.

Now if you tell me they were slagging off Nyx, I'm getting my pitchfork out :)

[Sixty5]

The thing is, you can't stop Gamergate. At it's heart it is a movement against all the bull in the gaming world, made up of people who are tired of dealing with it.

The other side hurls terrible allegations at those who support the movement and refer to them as misogynist sh*tlords anong other things.

Unfortunately they do not realise that these words mean nothing, supporters of gamergate have already had to deal with that sort of thing and worse for years, its like shooting a tank with a 9mm handgun.

There are bad eggs on both sides, but in the case of a movement like this, it is to be expected.

The other day, while browsing through the 10000 #stopgamergate tweets put out by bots, I saw obe that caught my eye, it stated "#stopgamergate, because journalistic reform is not worth this"

This struck me as interesting, they acknowledge that there should be journalistic reform, but, do not support the movement based on the hate being slung. In that case, you can hardly sit on either side of the fence.

The true fight that gamergate is pytting up, is the both the fact that it is still here, and its ability to get advertisers to pull their $$$ from the gaming news sites that would rather review a game on its feminist values, rather than how fun it is to play, and the games quality, and then go to their private group with all their cronies, and joke about their readership being fat basement dwelling white cis/het scum.

I support Gamergate, because I don't want those people ruining my hobby by pushing their agenda.

There is more I could say, but I'll save it for another time.

[PsychedelicSnake]

The true fight that gamergate is pytting up, is the both the fact that it is still here, and its ability to get advertisers to pull their $$$ from the gaming news sites 

I read somewhere that one of the sites lost close to 24 million dollars in a single month because consumers started pulling out. I'll have to find the source though.

[Sixty5]

I read somewhere that one of the sites lost close to 24 million dollars in a single month because consumers started pulling out. I'll have to find the source though.

Intel actually pulled their advertising from these sites INTEL

Guess what sort of processers I'll be using in my new pc.

In addition sites like Rock Paper Shotgun have started a subscription service, their wallets must ve hurting

Edited October 16, 2014 by Sixty5

[S.T.M.P.D]

Please tell me this is no longer about Quinn. We're honestly targeting the wrong people if we take at indie games. Probably the bigger problem is the ancient IGN 8/8 meme. Our journalism is corrupt and maybe that's a problem, I don't know.

But I am really sick of people taking aim at Quinn and calling her the axis of evil! Remember, ex-boyfriends can lie too. For all we know, this whole shi-storm started because a scorned ex decided he'd call his ex a wh-word on the internet.

So can we just narrow the scope down here. It's not about what one women does, it's not about her game, it's not about video games becoming art not entertainment and mysogyny on teh interwebz0rz. This is about gaming journalism being an Andrew-Carnegie sized trainwreck.

Can we at least get that out of the way?

[Archistopheles]

This is my new-found favorite gamergate 'tuber: Neet Life

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj6WU3IdNXHuwqv6WbcUH2Q/videos

Here's a little taste:

Edited October 16, 2014 by Archistopheles

[Sixty5]

This is my new-found favorite gamergate 'tuber: Neet Lifehttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj6WU3IdNXHuwqv6WbcUH2Q/videosHere's a little taste:

Bit late on the uptake mate. She's been doing update videos for weeks now.

Good one to watch though.

Best place to keep up with everything is twitter.

[zooke90909]

This is my view on this:
Game Developers are Game Developers.

Gamers are Gamers.

Doesn't matter on what gender they are.

[mechmoza]

if you got time then watch this:

 

HuffPost Live: 3 Strong Women Of #GamerGate Fight Back!

 

[Sixty5]

This is the sort of thing that we are fighting against

 

 

and this is the response of one based man.

 

[EetNotErn]

So I just learned about this "gamergate" thing and sorry I just cant back up such a movement. Some of you will accuse me of being a SWJ or feminazi, which is laughable since some of my views and actions in real life could be viewed as being contradictory to either of those labels. But I also like to consider myself rather reasonable and I just can't lend my full support to the whole "GG" movement.

 

First thing is, if this is about gaming journalism integrity, which I support, why is this all centered around one particular chick who supposedly slept with 5 dudes? Gaming journalism has been crap for quite a while so why did it take some gossipy rumors about who slept with whom to start gamergate? And how does anyone know that those rumors are true at all? Seriously, I need evidence. I just can't go on internet gossip. The word of a disgruntled ex boyfriend isn't real evidence either. 

 

Second, why gaming journalism specifically? Journalism as a whole has been crap for the past couple of decades. Everything is sensationalized and reported in such a way to influence opinion rather than just reporting facts. We have entire news channels dedicated to that. Gaming journalism is just a small symptom and offshoot of the bigger problem. "Fixing" gaming journalism is just killing one head of a hundred headed hydra. What we really need is the entirety of journalism have standards again.

 

Bottomline is that while fighting for journalistic integrity is great and awesome (wait isn't this also considered social justice?), forming a movement under a flagship of the Zoe Quinn controversy taints the whole thing. Gamergate will never be taken seriously and embraced by everyone as long as it's foundation was based on a controversy of one girl who supposedly slept with five dudes, especially when there's no real evidence. It's just going to be too busy fighting charges of misogyny instead.

 

Sorry but gamergate makes me cringe. Both sides are trying hard to look like the bigger victim. People don't know how to handle differing opinions and don't know how to try to understand differing views. But hey, it's the internet. It's always ugly out there.

Edited October 17, 2014 by EetNotErn

[PsychedelicSnake]

-snip-

There are a couple mistakes you seem to have made that a lot of other people make as well. Agree with me or don't, but I'm going to inform either way.

 

Gamergate is NOT about Zoe Quinn or Anita Sarkeesian or any of those people. It merely started with their actions, since their actions ignited the entire thing. As for evidence, we not only have the word of Zoe Quinn's boyfriend that she had been cheating, we have the word of those she had slept with as well. Not all of them, but enough of them to where it validates all the others. So there's that.

 

Second, although we promote journalistic integrity, that is only a part of the issue. We're also tired of being called heterosexual, racist, white men that hate women. Doesn't matter if you agree with Gamergate or not. If you play games, those in the Anti-Gamergate camp will automatically call you out. Harass you, belittle you, make death threats against you.

 

The thing is, it's not about Zoe Quinn. She may be involved, but it isn't about her. Those in the Anti-Gamergate side of things would have you believe it is about Zoe or Anita or feminism, but it isn't. Doing even a little bit of research into both sides makes this incredibly evident. If you want me to post evidence, I will do so.

[Demo102]

Ultimately it's simply about the fact that you, the gamer, is considered a lower life form then anyone else who is not associated with gaming.

 

Someone murders another person, person turns out to be a gamer that played a lot of fps you'll see news spreading the "violent games turn you violent" bullS#&$ everywhere if something like that comes up.

 

Not to mention you're accused of many things a typical gamer stereotype is, that included being a virgin, no life and many other things.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Demo102

[EetNotErn]

There are a couple mistakes you seem to have made that a lot of other people make as well. Agree with me or don't, but I'm going to inform either way.

 

Gamergate is NOT about Zoe Quinn or Anita Sarkeesian or any of those people. It merely started with their actions, since their actions ignited the entire thing. As for evidence, we not only have the word of Zoe Quinn's boyfriend that she had been cheating, we have the word of those she had slept with as well. Not all of them, but enough of them to where it validates all the others. So there's that.

 

Second, although we promote journalistic integrity, that is only a part of the issue. We're also tired of being called heterosexual, racist, white men that hate women. Doesn't matter if you agree with Gamergate or not. If you play games, those in the Anti-Gamergate camp will automatically call you out. Harass you, belittle you, make death threats against you.

 

The thing is, it's not about Zoe Quinn. She may be involved, but it isn't about her. Those in the Anti-Gamergate side of things would have you believe it is about Zoe or Anita or feminism, but it isn't. Doing even a little bit of research into both sides makes this incredibly evident. If you want me to post evidence, I will do so.

 

 

I don't see how any of that is a mistake on my part. Like I said before, I ALREADY know that GG is not supposed to be about Quinn or that other chick, but starting a movement based on the controversy of those two women is building a movement based on shaky ground. I can see why people would think that this is based on misogyny instead of journalistic integrity. That was my whole point. 

 

Again, hearsay is not evidence. Even if all of those 5 dudes claim that Quinn had sex with them, that's still just the word of 5 people saying things on the internet. Even in a courtroom setting, this wouldn't be considered evidence. I cringe at making condemnations based on rumors and gossip.

 

I understand that people are tired of being accused of racism, misogyny, etc etc., and I have seen that from what little I've seen so far but I've also seen BOTH sides throw out hate and name calling and accusations. That's why I said both sides are playing hard to be the bigger victim here.

 

Also, I'm curious why "social justice" is now a bad thing. Are we now promoting social injustice?

Edited October 17, 2014 by EetNotErn

[Archistopheles]

forming a movement under a flagship of the Zoe Quinn* controversy taints the whole thing.

*admitted rapist (by her own definition), proven con artist and habitual liar, Zoe Quinn, who got reddit to censor 10,000+ posts just because.

Here's a video with links proving she sabotaged TFYC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d6Q3VpqXyk

Even with that said, it hasn't been about her for a month. You can't sit on the sidelines and say half-truths make "both sides tainted."

The whole reason we are mad is because their side is lying, and bystanders such as yourself are buying into their bull.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Archistopheles

[EetNotErn]

*admitted rapist (by her own definition), proven con artist and habitual liar, Zoe Quinn, who got reddit to censor 10,000+ posts just because.

Even with that said, it hasn't been about her for a month. You can't sit on the sidelines and say half-truths make "both sides tainted."

The whole reason we are mad is because their side is lying, and bystanders such as yourself are buying into their bull.

 

 

Right. So because I'm skeptical and can see both side's views and not 100% on agreement of YOUR view and I think both sides have flaws, I'm telling half truths and buying into bull. Yeah, you don't sound like a zealot at all.

 

Anyway, I think I'll bow out of this now because I want no part of this ongoing pissing contest.

Edited October 17, 2014 by EetNotErn

[Archistopheles]

So because I'm skeptical... you sound like a zealot

this ongoing &ing contest.

I've provided proof. You've provided insult. Good day to you.