Bronze/gold Not Exactly Colorblind Friendly

[dashashou]

well they like this new horrible UI + the worst mod cards,  bet it's a long time before anything is done about it

 

after all how long did they let melee be useless? and they revamped it rather than just buffing the weapons  , a change at this point would in all likely hood = yet another revamp , and that's not soon prob. 

Edited September 2, 2014 by Ravel7

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

well they like this new horrible UI + the worst mod cards,  bet it's a long time before anything is done about it

 

This is not helpful. Your opinion on the new UI is not the point of this topic. There are dozens of other UI impression feedback topics in which you can share you opinions. This topic is about dealing with issues with a real life disability and making this disability more transparent to DE.

 

If you have CVD and/or wish to help make a case for helping make the current UI more CVD friendly, then we welcome the help.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Angelus_de_Mortiel

[dashashou]

This is not helpful. Your opinion on the new UI is not the point of this topic. There are dozens of other UI impression feedback topics in which you can share you opinions. This topic is about dealing with issues with a real life disability and making this disability more transparent to DE.

 

If you have CVD and/or wish to help make a case for helping make the current UI more CVD friendly, then we welcome the help.

 

dude take it down a notch  - what i was trying to say is that DE is willing to sacrifice  alot for their new system - and the developer message  of o most alright dismissal tends to suggest that CVD player would be one of those sacrifices , and i wouldn't hope for a quick fix soon .

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

dude take it down a notch  - what i was trying to say is that DE is willing to sacrifice  alot for their new system - and the developer message  of o most alright dismissal tends to suggest that CVD player would be one of those sacrifices , and i wouldn't hope for a quick fix soon .

 

You made a comment about DE liking the "horrible" UI and mod cards which dilutes a very popular discussion about CVD that is likely being read by DE. By diluting the conversation about CVD solutions with opinionated accusations, you increase the chances of DE dismissing the topic as a subjectivity issue, which it is not.

Granted, your singular comment does increases those chances my a miniscule amount, but such a comment spurs other such comments, which may effectively derail the thread.

 

As I said, there are plenty of topics to share your thoughts on the overall UI design. This topic is specifically about the UI in relation to CVD. All I ask is to keep this topic thread about CVD, and giving DE a perspective from people afflicted by the disability to improve their game.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Angelus_de_Mortiel

[H3dsh0t]

It does seem that after all of this discussion, and a rather dismissive post from Pablo that this is not something DE are likely to do. As I said in a previous post, I brought this up nearly a year ago about a colourblind mode, and even today, several variations on the UI later, and still its not something that seems to be important. I have a lot of respect for DE and what they have achieved, but this is something that has been going on for a long time now, and not something that realisticly could not have been dealt with or adressed by now, even by retroactively using the colourchanger from the warframe colouring etc, to colour parts of the UI, or even a button to click and it changes stuff like Green / Red for Open/Shut to something easier like even white and yellow or white and blue, something that no matter what deficiency you are afflicted with, you should be able to discern between the two. Although admittedly, at this point I would take a symbol or some text on the mod card at this point, fed up of asking my group mates whether we just got a rare or a common. I have to admit, I would love to see Pablo post again, at least he could tell us if we're wasting our time dicussing this. I'll post this question in the thread for livestream questions, you never know, it might get answered.

[-ZeroStar-]

My fiance is 100% grey scale colorblind... He has never seen a color, but Black, White, And the grey's inbetween, it's called Achromatopsia.  He can't play Warframe due to this.  Most gaming companies, now, have colorblind versions, that Help... A LOT...  Most gaming companies have 3 settings, although there are only 6 types, they each have MANY variables to each one.  The main thing, such as Warframes Copper/Silver/Gold Mods could EASILY have 1 star, 2 stars, and 3 stars.  Seeing JUST the difference between these BASIC things, helps out SO MUCH, for ALL kinds of colorblindness.  Depth perception can be a HARD thing to do with colorblind people though.  I DO understand that it's ONLY 8% of all males and .5% of all females, around the world, that suffer from any kind of colorblindness... Luckily, according to the Farnsworth Munsell 100 Hue Test, my score is 0.  The best you can get is 0, the worst is 99, so I can see ALL the different hues that the human eye is capable to perceive.

Anywho, Yes, SIMPLE things, such as stars for Copper=1* Silver=2** and Gold=3***.  That helps EVERYONE out!!  They could very well be selling/trading something, that they can't perceive correctly, for nearly nothing, and the other person just making huge profits, for taking advantage of the person that couldn't tell.  This is a HUGE oversight that is very easily corrected.  Again, other things such as distance, on a flat surface, like your screen, is HARD to tell for a person with any kind of colorblindness!  

Hope this helps! <3, peace, and orokin/prime stuffs for everyone! Yay!

*Edit, it's just MY opinion, but the game NEEDS a player-based AH system of some sort.  No one can really know what's really expensive or cheap!  OF COURSE there will be people putting up anything at an outrageous price... Here's the thing, they do it in EVERY game that has any kind of AH...  No one worries about it, BECAUSE they KNOW the price that it ACTUALLY goes for!!  Without that information, we're all just guessing... I've seen things that are worth 400p go for 50p, and vice versa.  With a player based AH, as the control, people may very well put up something expensive for cheap, just because they want a fast sell... I'm sorry but ONLY having forums or spamming the Trading Tab every 2min is NOT effective... You just happen to have to catch something, sit there for ~30min  EVERY DAY, JUST to get a deal you want...  WHY NOT just have a search bar in the AH, so I can actually who's selling what, for what price, whether they're willing to change their price, etc etc... Very simple, yet very effective system that has worked for over a decade by other gaming communities!!  The system has ONLY gotten better!  I see NO REASON why there shouldn't be one... This isn't 1990, we don't have to post on forums to find out something anymore.  We just google and have ANY answer you could possibly imagine at our fingertips, anything!  Again, this goes into the using a BETTER sorting system in which things are done... Such as my starring idea, posted above, making information instantly obtainable!  We can only interact/react if we know the information, such as, I see a bad guy, I shoot it, because if I don't, I die, and dying is bad....  It's truly that simple!  Thanks again!!

Edited September 4, 2014 by KidPunkStar101

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

It does seem that after all of this discussion, and a rather dismissive post from Pablo that this is not something DE are likely to do. As I said in a previous post, I brought this up nearly a year ago about a colourblind mode, and even today, several variations on the UI later, and still its not something that seems to be important. I have a lot of respect for DE and what they have achieved, but this is something that has been going on for a long time now, and not something that realisticly could not have been dealt with or adressed by now, even by retroactively using the colourchanger from the warframe colouring etc, to colour parts of the UI, or even a button to click and it changes stuff like Green / Red for Open/Shut to something easier like even white and yellow or white and blue, something that no matter what deficiency you are afflicted with, you should be able to discern between the two. Although admittedly, at this point I would take a symbol or some text on the mod card at this point, fed up of asking my group mates whether we just got a rare or a common. I have to admit, I would love to see Pablo post again, at least he could tell us if we're wasting our time dicussing this. I'll post this question in the thread for livestream questions, you never know, it might get answered.

 

The squeaky wheel gets the oil. I am happy you are going to bring it up during the devstream. Sadly, I will not be able to watch it live, or I would bring it up also (united voices get noticed). As far as I could gather, even if Pablo is dismissive of it, he is not the guy in charge, if you catch my drift.

 

My fiance is 100% grey scale colorblind... He has never seen a color, but Black, White, And the grey's inbetween, it's called Achromatopsia.  He can't play Warframe due to this.  Most gaming companies, now, have colorblind versions, that Help... A LOT...  Most gaming companies have 3 settings, although there are only 6 types, they each have MANY variables to each one.  

Anywho, Yes, SIMPLE things, such as stars for Copper=1* Silver=2** and Gold=3***.  That helps EVERYONE out!! 

Hope this helps! <3, peace, and orokin/prime stuffs for everyone! Yay!

*Edit, it's just MY opinion, but the game NEEDS a player-based AH system of some sort.  WHY NOT just have a search bar in the AH, so I can actually who's selling what, for what price, whether they're willing to change their price, etc etc...

 

Despite me having no affiliation with DE whatsoever, I feel like your fiance deserves an apology for the complete lack of sensitivity to his disability. His life is difficult enough, given that he is likely not able to operate motor vehicles (is that a red or a green light?) and cannot get a lot of jobs. For the complete disregard of CVD in this game is rather unfortunately, making it so your fiance has to miss as incredible experience as Warframe, and for that I am sorry.

 

Aside, despite knowing you have the best of intentions, this is really not a topic for an Auction House system. Let's keep this about better CVD support, and go with Auction House in another topic, ok?

[ElHefe]

Apologies don't really fix anything ... but fixing things does

Fixing things for yourself is a matter of motivation

Fixing things for others is a matter of activism

 

An apology for an intentional slight or harm is indicative of contriteness and repentance

An apology for unintended slights at their best are indicative of new awareness but in this age of "politically correctness" they are usually merely perfunctory  

 

Message:  just fix it and move on

Edited September 10, 2014 by ElHefe

[H3dsh0t]

I get the feeling that the post from Pablo was their final word. It doesn't seem like any further discussion is going to solve anything. I can understand them being protective over a new system because they put a lot of work into it, but to come out with a very dismissive and blasé post is quite frustrating and frankly a bit rude, especially since that was your last post on the topic and nothings been said since. I would like to know whether its something that is going to be considered, or whether you feel everything is fine and that this is how it will stay. If Pablo won't post, then I would love to see if Rebecca could raise this issue on behalf of the playerbase that has problems with this issue. I put it in the questions for the livestream, but obviously since it wasn't a UI devstream, it wasn't really the right people to ask, but I think this really does need to be looked at.

[marelooke]

Well, nothing in the current patch notes about this issue even though changes were made to the UI. :-(

[holyicon]

I just caught myself dumping all of my rare cores into a mod thinking they were commons...the new color coded mods are great and all, but the bronze and gold colors are WAY too similar to us colorblind users.

 

Mods aren't so much the issue as it is the fusion cores, the only way I can tell them apart is that the rares are a smidge lighter, but if I only have one type or the other, I have no idea what rarity it is.

 

If we had some kind of marker like the word "Rare/Uncommon/Common" in the collapsed card title just above "Fusion Core", that would make life MUCH easier for us.

+1

 

Something like an icon system would be good.

I know it's not "the best" icons in the world. I can do a lot better, but I don't work for DE so they're not getting any free content out of me.

If you're interested, the rest of my accessibility ides are here.

Concept for Colorblind Support

Cheers.

[(XBOX)Uncut Urchin]

My first interaction with this Forum, and it has to deal with this issue. I am red-green colorblind. I can differentiate between reds and greens, but the problem arises mostly under these two conditions.(Both of which apply to this game)

1. When the reds and greens in question both have a high level of brightness.
2. When the reds and greens in question are both within close proximity to each other.

The card game "UNO", is a perfect representation of my own personal hell on Earth. Bright red and green cards in my hand within close proximity to each other. I've thrown down a red card on top of a green one and had friends laugh hysterically at me trillions of times throughout my life.
It also seriously degrades my ability to decipher which is which when the objects in said colors are shaped exactly alike. Point in case being the symbols on the storage containers. Which, by the way are always typically shown in groups in close proximity. Looting for me in Warframe has just always been walking up to container and smash the open container button feverishly. Then hope I don't look like a fool trying to open a locked door or container to the people I'm playing with. 

I'm no game programmer, so I don't know what it takes to fix such a problem. All I can say is it's immensely disappointing to have to deal with this issue. Now excuse me, I have some locked doors to go run into.

[H3dsh0t]

My first interaction with this Forum, and it has to deal with this issue. I am red-green colorblind. I can differentiate between reds and greens, but the problem arises mostly under these two conditions.(Both of which apply to this game)

1. When the reds and greens in question both have a high level of brightness.

2. When the reds and greens in question are both within close proximity to each other.

The card game "UNO", is a perfect representation of my own personal hell on Earth. Bright red and green cards in my hand within close proximity to each other. I've thrown down a red card on top of a green one and had friends laugh hysterically at me trillions of times throughout my life.

It also seriously degrades my ability to decipher which is which when the objects in said colors are shaped exactly alike. Point in case being the symbols on the storage containers. Which, by the way are always typically shown in groups in close proximity. Looting for me in Warframe has just always been walking up to container and smash the open container button feverishly. Then hope I don't look like a fool trying to open a locked door or container to the people I'm playing with. 

I'm no game programmer, so I don't know what it takes to fix such a problem. All I can say is it's immensely disappointing to have to deal with this issue. Now excuse me, I have some locked doors to go run into.

 

I feel your pain mate, I really do. However as far as we can see, this topic is going nowhere. Pablo posted a completely dismissive post saying everything was fine, then hasn't been back since. I would like to see that our feedback, especially because of a disability, is actually listened to. If you see the rest of the forums, every other Warframe department is checking threads and posting in feedback threads, welcoming the feedback of the players, however it seems like the UI guys find it more of a direct attack on them, rather than actual feedback. As such, those of us that struggle with colouring of the UI, and certain elements (like the red map with red exterminate markers, can't tell me thats fine Pablo) which have been in the game since open beta without being addressed, we lose out.

[H3dsh0t]

Gonna bump this after seeing a new video on the way the mod system works.

 

 

"They are easily distinguishable"

 

Oh really, are they? I must have missed that. I feel pretty insulted right now. They are kind of easy to tell apart when they are compared alongside each other, but not when you pick them up one at a time. I'm sorry but does colourblindness mean so little to the UI team that we are wrong and that everything is fine. The complete lack of response after the very dismissive post from Pablo really frustrates me, and I vow to make sure that this topic is bumped daily, until we actually get an official response as to whether this is an issue thats going to be looked at or not. This is not a thread made to bash the UI system (which I actually quite like apart from the colour issue), this is a thread for people with a genuine problem seeing parts of the UI being completely ignored, and have been since it went into open beta, where I raised the colourblindness issue over a year ago.

[OverlordMcGeek]

Gonna bump this after seeing a new video on the way the mod system works.

 

 

"They are easily distinguishable"

 

Oh really, are they? I must have missed that. I feel pretty insulted right now. They are kind of easy to tell apart when they are compared alongside each other, but not when you pick them up one at a time. I'm sorry but does colourblindness mean so little to the UI team that we are wrong and that everything is fine. The complete lack of response after the very dismissive post from Pablo really frustrates me, and I vow to make sure that this topic is bumped daily, until we actually get an official response as to whether this is an issue thats going to be looked at or not. This is not a thread made to bash the UI system (which I actually quite like apart from the colour issue), this is a thread for people with a genuine problem seeing parts of the UI being completely ignored, and have been since it went into open beta, where I raised the colourblindness issue over a year ago.

I will join you on this quest.

[marelooke]

I agree that the dismissive reply and especially the total lack of response by DE since the reply is starting to be kind of insulting.

 

Not that I am surprised, the colourblind issue has been brought up numerous times since I started playing and even though they mentioned it would be looked into they have never done so as far as I can tell (if they tried and failed to come up with a good way to handle the issue then that was, as far as I am aware, never communicated to the playerbase, aside of DE Pablo's failed attempt with the website).

 

And honestly, it's not all that hard, many games have a colourblind mode so it's not as if the knowledge on how to tackle the issue in some fashion isn't out there. Cost can also hardly be a real reason to ignore this topic as I know of games with a much much lower budget than Warframe (eg, the upcoming Pillars of Eternity) that have a colourblind mode (not to mention that the required changes to fix the most pressing issues for Warframe seem rather minor).

No, it seems to me DE is just sticking their heads in the sand and refuses to deal with a handicap apparently none of them suffer from[*] even though a staggering number of the world's population does. Pretty typically human "we don't understand it so we refuse to deal with it" situation, which I think is really a shame, especially since the community has gone to great lengths (in this very topic, for one) to try and help them understand the issue and has even brought up various solutions that would be satisfactory for even the worst cases of colourblindness (at least concerning the Mod UI issue).

 

[*] I assume this is the case since DE Pablo's response contained typical misconceptions that would easily be dispelled by talking to an actual colourblind person about his handicap.

Edited September 30, 2014 by marelooke

[H3dsh0t]

Glad you guys are supporting this, an answer to this question will come. I have sent a forum PM to Rebecca and Megan, although they probably get tonnes each day and might take a while to get to reading it, but hopefully they should pass this question up the chain bearing in mind the UI team seem resistant to discussion. This is an issue that needs resolving and I won't rest until our voice is genuinely heard and accepted that something needs to change.

[OverlordMcGeek]

I would love to see a pic of DE_Pablo with a sign saying "sorry". Or at least an update on how come a simple thing as words at the bottom middle of each card hasn't been done yet.

[Kaian-a-coel]

The life of UI feedback threads (valid for post U14, don't know for before):

 

1) someone post a well researched, well-detailed post about a UI problem, sometimes with possible solutions.

2) People discuss the issues and other people having it speak up

Repeat until step 3 happens (once in a blue moon)

3) pablo posts a short and dismissive answer saying everything is fine.

4) people explain why pablo is wrong

5) people get offended at the tone of pablo's response

6) pablo disappear for a month

7) nothing changes.

8) repeat.

[marelooke]

I would love to see a pic of DE_Pablo with a sign saying "sorry". Or at least an update on how come a simple thing as words at the bottom middle of each card hasn't been done yet.

 

*especially* since that's how it used to be...

[H3dsh0t]

The thing is, that we know Pablo is checking the UI forums, bearing in mind he posted in this subsection yesterday.

 

How I feel right now is that the UI team are so protective of their work, that any feedback given from us is taken as a direct attack on their work. This couldn't be further from the truth. This is a genuine issue that needs addressing, and has always needed addressing. Personally I like the UI now I've got used to it. However, changing the way the UI looks does not fix the colour issues that are within the game and make the game difficult for people with colourblindness. Every major game these days comes out with a colourblind mode. It boggles my mind that this seems to be a completely alien concept to the UI team, who could quite easily have worked to do this, in the year and a bit since it came out of open beta, and people have drawn issue to this fact. Lets be honest, in the massive number of changes to the UI since the game came out of closed beta, could something like a colourblind mode, or a customisable hud/UI elements have not been worked on.

 

@DEPablo: I apologise if you feel I have been disrespectful within this thread, and if you are avoiding this thread because you feel this has become a direct attack on you then I am sorry. This is a subject I feel extremely strongly about, and feel that something needs to be done. I read your initial post as a disrespectful dismissive post about colourblindness, however now I see that its just that you have misconceptions about how colourblindness affects people, and how those sites add to the problem of that misconception, not help to solve it. Telling the mods apart is reasaonable when the mods are side by side, as the website no doubt told you. However the problem comes when they are NOT side by side, thats where colour recognition comes in, and where people with colourblindness start to struggle. How would it be so difficult just to add a bit of text to a mod card to say rare, uncommon or common. That would at least solve the modcard issue, other issues like locked/unlocked doors and red enemy markers on a red map during exterminate, need to be worked on a little bit more. We just want to hear from you and hear whether this is something that is likely to be looked at, or whether we are banging our head against a brick wall needlessly and nothing needs changing.

Edited October 1, 2014 by H3dsh0t

[Cruin]

I'm not colour blind but was curious how the mods would look for someone who is. I took and combined the various types of colour blindness with images of mods:

 

Small: http://i.imgur.com/mGyNUty.png

Large: http://i.imgur.com/oAF9lzR.png

 

The mod pictures are from the wikia (http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Mods_2.0) and the colour blindness adjustments were made with Coblis (http://www.color-blindness.com/coblis-color-blindness-simulator/). I then just joined them all into one image.
 

I'm sorry to say but on my screens and with my vision it would seem that regardless of type of colour blindness the common and rare ones are rather hard to distinguish.

With the current colour scheme having a symbol or text to distinguish is probably quite needed for those with colour blindness/deficiency.

[dashashou]

 

With the current colour scheme having a symbol or text to distinguish is probably quite needed for those with colour blindness/deficiency.

 

 

The whole color tents on the cards wash out the cards , and just make them look more plain  and hard to identity   for everyone , and a symbol to better identify common , uncommon , rare  ; that would help every one 

 

 the blues - uncommon tent isn't even the same blue form card to card

 

change is badly needed  

[OverlordMcGeek]

and i command the to ressurrect!

[H3dsh0t]

Apologies, I've negelected this thread over the weekend, and I think this needs to return to the top of the pile. Still hoping for an official response from Pablo on this, after having spoken at length about this with Glen over the weekend!