The Kubrow Egg Problem With A Simple Solution.

[atpbx1]

If they made the egg drops more frequent, you will be less likely to buy them from the market.

 

In someways, this is worse than just actually having a pay wall, as with a pay wall you know that if you want something, you have to pay for it.

 

The way things currently stand is that you grind yourself into the floor, wasting hours of your life playing trash missions with no challenge and no enjoyment before eventually caving in and buying the eggs anyway, because DE dont want to just face up to the player base and ask for cash.

[Marthrym]

"There's nothing worse, in Warframe, than seeing something that's gold and shiny and not being able to pick it up."

- Albert Einstein

 

This alone is deserving of an upvote.^^

Edited September 8, 2014 by Marthrym

[Onisa]

So some one from DE told you this? You can tell me by PM, i can keep a secret.

Why would some one from DE tell you this?

 

I did say for me. I dont care about how long it takes to craft as long as i am getting it for free. It's no different than the other free stuff that take time. Since i basically got everything maxed, when i am not leveling something new i am doing derelict and void stuff. Getting the 100k before and 75k now is absolutely nothing when it comes to a standard play session. People have always complained about having millions of cred with nothing to burn it on and now that there is..... problem.I havent played high enough to have my dog die without being revived so i have not had any trouble with loyalty.

 

The stasis time is a bit annoying but this was explained in a stream when people worried about Sentinels being replaced. They put this feature so you dont totally replace sentinels. It's weird that people worried about this and now that this featured was added they dont like it. Now, i dont know if these complains come from the group but this was added for a specific reason.

They've specifically asked not to be quoted on the matter, and private messages are hardly private from the site's owners. I'm aware this may come off as me just pulling info out of thin air, but I'd like to think someone would withhold my name if asked as well.

 

I personally don't have an issue with my egg drop rate either, but I believe any one gathering aspect shouldn't take much longer than any of the others. So if it takes 4 hours to get the credits and the crystal it shouldn't take much more than four hours to get the egg. It breaks the flow otherwise. Also, if the eggs were meant to be so rare then why bother with an inventory limit?

 

The problem is that for every Tenno with millions to burn there's 20 or more that don't, and now those 20 are upset. If a player is still ranking mods it can be quite trying to get any 'large' sum of credits. I made an alt to gauge things like essential drops for new players, and keeping more than 20k in the bank can be an issue.

 

After level 2, and now that their bleedout time has been boosted it's only really the assassins that cause a death with my kubrow.

Well, bugs aside. I've had missions where the companion never spawned in but counted as dying several times.

 

The stasis sickness just seems so cash grabby. A fifteen minute cool down would have done the same thing for sentinel usage boosting, but they decided on three hours instead. Hopefully the recovery item hinted at won't decay like the resource they said may be the main ingredient does.

[Mak_Gohae]

They've specifically asked not to be quoted on the matter, and private messages are hardly private from the site's owners. I'm aware this may come off as me just pulling info out of thin air, but I'd like to think someone would withhold my name if asked as well.

 

Ok this point ceases to be part of the discussion because it has nowhere to go in this conversation.

 

So we are back to what we where at the start, RNG is RNG.

 

 

I personally don't have an issue with my egg drop rate either, but I believe any one gathering aspect shouldn't take much longer than any of the others. So if it takes 4 hours to get the credits and the crystal it shouldn't take much more than four hours to get the egg. It breaks the flow otherwise. Also, if the eggs were meant to be so rare then why bother with an inventory limit?

 

The flow that DE wants to keep is that where they have the player playing as long as possible.

If they just gave you everything asap people would just run through, get tired, and moved to another game.

The last thing DE should do is build the game around people that are going to be the first opportunity that they can.

Specially since if they get tired and leave because they dont have the egg then when they come back they will continue to try to get the egg.

 

The problem is that for every Tenno with millions to burn there's 20 or more that don't, and now those 20 are upset. If a player is still ranking mods it can be quite trying to get any 'large' sum of credits. I made an alt to gauge things like essential drops for new players, and keeping more than 20k in the bank can be an issue.

 

If you cannot keep a kubrow you should not have a kubrow, it's that simple.

There is no rocket science here. This game has RPG elements, in RPG there are always showing items that you cant get yet. This is to make you play the game more so you can get these items.

 

The stasis sickness just seems so cash grabby. A fifteen minute cool down would have done the same thing for sentinel usage boosting, but they decided on three hours instead. Hopefully the recovery item hinted at won't decay like the resource they said may be the main ingredient does.

 

Again, people asked for Sentinels to not be completely replaced. They offered this and not only people are not liking it but now they are calling it a cash grab. DE cannot appease every single group of people playing so they make a choice and go with it. Until there is enough "feedback" that it become the major complain and it gets changed.

[Onisa]

 

The flow that DE wants to keep is that where they have the player playing as long as possible.

If they just gave you everything asap people would just run through, get tired, and moved to another game.

The last thing DE should do is build the game around people that are going to be the first opportunity that they can.

Specially since if they get tired and leave because they dont have the egg then when they come back they will continue to try to get the egg.

 

 

 

If you cannot keep a kubrow you should not have a kubrow, it's that simple.

There is no rocket science here. This game has RPG elements, in RPG there are always showing items that you cant get yet. This is to make you play the game more so you can get these items.

 

 

 

Again, people asked for Sentinels to not be completely replaced. They offered this and not only people are not liking it but now they are calling it a cash grab. DE cannot appease every single group of people playing so they make a choice and go with it. Until there is enough "feedback" that it become the major complain and it gets changed.

Except if you draw things out too long you risk player loss through frustration. That's the flow I was talking about. I never claimed eggs should drop every run, or that players should get them instantly. All I said was it shouldn't take more than 4-8 hours grinding to get one, depending on what resource acquisition a player has available to them. And if a player leaves out of frustration it's far more likely they'll just go to another game and not come back at all.

 

I noticed you didn't comment on the rarity and inventory limit discrepancy.

 

I suppose we can just chalk that one up to Warframe being all helter skelter with it's reasoning. After all, the Lotus does tell you 'every Tenno deserves a Kubrow' after you defeat the second boss in the game.

 

You seem to think everyone who plays Warframe is some kind of Hivemind, or that they should be. You know what would keep sentinels from being replaced? Unique, useful abilities. But that was a thing before Kubrows as well, and I'm not sure if whoever designed the abilities learned from the Carrier Supremacy or not though. Probably not, since a Huras seems to outclass a Shade in every way possible.

 

The reason it's being called out as a cash grab is it's not only the first such cooldown, but it's extensively long given Warframe's touted fast paced game play. DE didn't test the waters before they jumped in head first, and they hit a rock. Kinda like the scrambler.

[Mak_Gohae]

Except if you draw things out too long you risk player loss through frustration. That's the flow I was talking about. I never claimed eggs should drop every run, or that players should get them instantly. All I said was it shouldn't take more than 4-8 hours grinding to get one, depending on what resource acquisition a player has available to them. And if a player leaves out of frustration it's far more likely they'll just go to another game and not come back at all.

 

I noticed you didn't comment on the rarity and inventory limit discrepancy.

 

I suppose we can just chalk that one up to Warframe being all helter skelter with it's reasoning. After all, the Lotus does tell you 'every Tenno deserves a Kubrow' after you defeat the second boss in the game.

 

I already answered this, player leaves then comes back to try again. The cycle continues, Wu Tang!

 

You seem to think everyone who plays Warframe is some kind of Hivemind, or that they should be. You know what would keep sentinels from being replaced? Unique, useful abilities. But that was a thing before Kubrows as well, and I'm not sure if whoever designed the abilities learned from the Carrier Supremacy or not though. Probably not, since a Huras seems to outclass a Shade in every way possible.

 

Carried has a supremacy because people are lazy. Carrier, specially now, is not needed, the only time it is its when using weapons that eat up ammo and you actually need constant ammo. Other than that it's totally for convenience. 

 

And they know what they are doing by giving huras a huge range. It's more powerful but the pet has more disadvantages. Disadvantages that you already claimed are too much. So their method works perfectly.

 

The reason it's being called out as a cash grab is it's not only the first such cooldown, but it's extensively long given Warframe's touted fast paced game play. DE didn't test the waters before they jumped in head first, and they hit a rock. Kinda like the scrambler.

 

Again, a certain group of players asked for this. They could've just not had an option to clear the time at all. Would that been better? Would this then not be called a cash grab?

 

The scrambler was way better than what came after, people charging hundreds of plat for a print, and it's still better than what we have now. Sure, you get one pattern and a couple cool colors to use on all kubs but the rest are colors that just look the same. All the greys minus the Nova version look almost exactly the same. 

[Onisa]

I already answered this, player leaves then comes back to try again. The cycle continues, Wu Tang!

 

 

 

Carried has a supremacy because people are lazy. Carrier, specially now, is not needed, the only time it is its when using weapons that eat up ammo and you actually need constant ammo. Other than that it's totally for convenience. 

 

And they know what they are doing by giving huras a huge range. It's more powerful but the pet has more disadvantages. Disadvantages that you already claimed are too much. So their method works perfectly.

 

 

 

Again, a certain group of players asked for this. They could've just not had an option to clear the time at all. Would that been better? Would this then not be called a cash grab?

 

The scrambler was way better than what came after, people charging hundreds of plat for a print, and it's still better than what we have now. Sure, you get one pattern and a couple cool colors to use on all kubs but the rest are colors that just look the same. All the greys minus the Nova version look almost exactly the same. 

What does one of the three possible outcomes to game frustration answer again? Or is that just a blanket 'what I say is so' statement?

It certainly doesn't answer the need for inventory limitations on a item that's supposed to be rare. It also does nothing for the difference in when one is able to begin looking for a Kubrow the game tells them they deserve and when they can actually support it. If it's in response to my opening statement that reply then I'm sorry to say your answer is no more correct than mine. Chances are, if a player quits a game in frustration they may never come back to it in favor of greener pastures.

 

You say that like anything in this game is needed. Carrier is good for bullet hoses, I agree. And ability spam. And it does a fine job keeping my tank Nekros on it's feet.

 

When I made that comparison I was directly comparing the stealth sentinel to the stealth Kubrow. Or in other words the most direct overlap of sentinel and Kubrow roles. One of which clearly outshines the other, even with it's drawbacks. I have another couple days before I know first hand how poorly the two compare though, my Huras is still cooking. (Shade may be just that much of a waste of pixels.)

 

Again, how does Player A invalidate Player B, and vise versa?

I say a far more effective way to keep one from invalidating the other is to design them so they don't overlap in their roles. A three hour pay wall is the laziest of ways they could have gone about solving the issue.

 

The scrambler wouldn't have done diddly for imprint prices. If you think it would have led to anything more than a steady stream of 'I scrambled X times and got nothing good!" threads you need wake up and smell the gambling addiction. Now 10 plat for clicks until you hit 'accept changes'? That I could understand, since you get to roll the die until something you like pops up. That would have put a dent in the imprint market.

 

I agree the color packs seem a tad rushed. What, four greys and two blacks instead of a blue, or red or yellow? Or even a dark brown or green.

DE hyped kubrows up so much and they just keep dropping the ball on them it seems.

[Mak_Gohae]

What does one of the three possible outcomes to game frustration answer again? Or is that just a blanket 'what I say is so' statement?

It certainly doesn't answer the need for inventory limitations on a item that's supposed to be rare. It also does nothing for the difference in when one is able to begin looking for a Kubrow the game tells them they deserve and when they can actually support it. If it's in response to my opening statement that reply then I'm sorry to say your answer is no more correct than mine. Chances are, if a player quits a game in frustration they may never come back to it in favor of greener pastures.

 

 

No one is going to quit over one weapon have a limit on it production.

And if one does, this is the type of person that doesnt stick around anyway so it's no loss.

 

Kubs are a strong side weapon and as a strong side weapon there are certain limits.

I dont know why this is so hard to understand.

 

You say that like anything in this game is needed. Carrier is good for bullet hoses, I agree. And ability spam. And it does a fine job keeping my tank Nekros on it's feet.

 

You said "Carrier supremacy" so you elevated the thing to such a level .

I said that this is out of laziness and this wasnt some super awesome thing.

 

When I made that comparison I was directly comparing the stealth sentinel to the stealth Kubrow. Or in other words the most direct overlap of sentinel and Kubrow roles. One of which clearly outshines the other, even with it's drawbacks. I have another couple days before I know first hand how poorly the two compare though, my Huras is still cooking. (Shade may be just that much of a waste of pixels.)

 

So now the kubrows are so cool that you dont care about the drawbacks?

Im sorry but you have hoping the fence here form post to post and i dont know what your point is.

 

Either it's too much for what they provide or it's not. You cant say both things at the same time.

 

Again, how does Player A invalidate Player B, and vise versa?

I say a far more effective way to keep one from invalidating the other is to design them so they don't overlap in their roles. A three hour pay wall is the laziest of ways they could have gone about solving the issue.

 

 

They made a choice, if that choice fell not on your side you should adjust with it.

You can try to get it change offering feedback but they dont have to change it.

There are plenty of things of choices in this game that annoying certain players and it's completely impossible to appease every single player type.

 

The scrambler wouldn't have done diddly for imprint prices. If you think it would have led to anything more than a steady stream of 'I scrambled X times and got nothing good!" threads you need wake up and smell the gambling addiction. Now 10 plat for clicks until you hit 'accept changes'? That I could understand, since you get to roll the die until something you like pops up. That would have put a dent in the imprint market.

 

Those exist now with random breeding.

But it doesnt change the fact that overall it would be extremely cheaper then all that we have now.

In five rolls, the price of patterns now, you could have gotten something just as cool as the patterns they sell.

[Onisa]

No one is going to quit over one weapon have a limit on it production.

And if one does, this is the type of person that doesnt stick around anyway so it's no loss.

 

Kubs are a strong side weapon and as a strong side weapon there are certain limits.

I dont know why this is so hard to understand.

 

You said "Carrier supremacy" so you elevated the thing to such a level .

I said that this is out of laziness and this wasnt some super awesome thing.

 

So now the kubrows are so cool that you dont care about the drawbacks?

Im sorry but you have hoping the fence here form post to post and i dont know what your point is.

 

Either it's too much for what they provide or it's not. You cant say both things at the same time.

 

They made a choice, if that choice fell not on your side you should adjust with it.

You can try to get it change offering feedback but they dont have to change it.

There are plenty of things of choices in this game that annoying certain players and it's completely impossible to appease every single player type.

 

Those exist now with random breeding.

But it doesnt change the fact that overall it would be extremely cheaper then all that we have now.

In five rolls, the price of patterns now, you could have gotten something just as cool as the patterns they sell.

Frustrations in gaming doesn't tend to be one weapon, Mak. If a player has poor luck/bad seed over an extended period of time they are not going to view the game in a positive light. If they don't like the game, they won't play it, simple as that.

 

You still haven't come up with a reason to put inventory limits on a 'rare' item that drops rarely.

 

A fully modded almost anything is a powerful weapon. Don't see upkeep on my Boltor Prime though, or a cool down period.

The feeling's mutual Mak.

 

I was only going off what the vocal minority on the forums says. The only other sentinel I see a tenth of the love for is Wyrm Prime.

 

Now this is awkward. I thought the comment on Shade being a waste of pixels would clue you in.

No, I'm not saying that all Kubrow are awesomesause and could cost what ever and be a great deal. I'm saying Shade is just so bad, that in comparison it's furry direct counterpart is passable in it's costs. This is a statement that applies to the Huras, and only the Huras. If in the next hotfix they change Ghost to work like Stalk, or Stalk to work like Ghost then the previous statement would no longer apply.

 

Indeed, DE made a choice, and I posted in a thread about egg drop rates stating that I felt it was too low. And then walls of text happened.

 

Or you could get 'mud in shades of grey', 'mud in shades of brown', 'moldy something', 'there's a pattern in there?', and 'someone puked on my dog'.

There goes 50 plat, all for nothing. Because if your account was lucky with fur colors, you wouldn't need to scramble.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

I'm more in favor of a complete revision, with quests for each Kubrow breed, reworked upkeep mechanics (preferably so they aren't an obvious and arbitrary credit sink), new feral Kubrows for better mod droprates etc. but I don't see why your idea wouldn't help.

 

I think this was completely overlooked and is really the idea that we should be suggesting. Obviously, that's my opinion, but I felt it was worth sharing.

[Mak_Gohae]

Frustrations in gaming doesn't tend to be one weapon, Mak. If a player has poor luck/bad seed over an extended period of time they are not going to view the game in a positive light. If they don't like the game, they won't play it, simple as that.

 

 

There's the second option of buying it with plat.

This is how it is with pretty much everything in the game, if you dont want to wait for it then you can get it with plat.

Why is this all of a sudden some strange concept?

Let's not act like this isn't the simple argument of wanting stuff now that we always get with rare items because there seem to be a portion of the player base that never played an RPG game.

 

You still haven't come up with a reason to put inventory limits on a 'rare' item that drops rarely.

 

Im sure i did.

But to restate it..... it's a powerful weapon they dont want you to quickly get in two second and be done with.

It's a F2P game, they have to extend the amount of time you are playing it.

Do people not understand this? These type of games dont function like P2P games where they dump something that people can run through in couple days and then you wont see anything for 3 months.

 

A fully modded almost anything is a powerful weapon. Don't see upkeep on my Boltor Prime though, or a cool down period.

The feeling's mutual Mak.

 

Boltor is not an extra weapon.

 

Now this is awkward. I thought the comment on Shade being a waste of pixels would clue you in.

No, I'm not saying that all Kubrow are awesomesause and could cost what ever and be a great deal. I'm saying Shade is just so bad, that in comparison it's furry direct counterpart is passable in it's costs. This is a statement that applies to the Huras, and only the Huras. If in the next hotfix they change Ghost to work like Stalk, or Stalk to work like Ghost then the previous statement would no longer apply.

 

This applies to basically all but the Sahasa.

Howl's range is way bigger than Wyrms stun and the Sunika wrecks enemies better than the Dethcube.

 

The advantages and disadvantages of both pets are pretty clear and i really dont see how anyone could have a problem with the obvious with this.  Sentinels are weaker but with no upkeep, dogs are stronger but with some upkeep.

 

Indeed, DE made a choice, and I posted in a thread about egg drop rates stating that I felt it was too low. And then walls of text happened.

Are you talking about another thread? Cause.... you are not the OP here. 

 

Or you could get 'mud in shades of grey', 'mud in shades of brown', 'moldy something', 'there's a pattern in there?', and 'someone puked on my dog'.

There goes 50 plat, all for nothing. Because if your account was lucky with fur colors, you wouldn't need to scramble.

 

Correct, but it's still just ten plat. The buy in is extremely cheap so it can continue for longer, you can change them later on because it was so cheap.  Now the buy in to get different patterns and color is 50. You get to keep them but unless you get more and more color for 50 more plat, you are going to get left with a limited set of option. With the 100k plat you just end up with half of the palette being greys which all but one look the basically the same.

 

So far the cheapest customization option for kubs has been the color printer at 10 plat a spin. They could have adjusted it later on to where you put in more plat for a better chance at better colors and patters but they just gave up on it which screwed people that dont have that much plat. This is another complain here about he Kubs, people who dont have much plat are left with no options but continue breeding which is annoyingly long.

 

Like i said, each choice is going to have certain folks that dont agree with it. The best DE can do is navigate some results that can reached the most people. With eggs you either farm them or buy them, and buying them is pretty cheap.

[Onisa]

There's the second option of buying it with plat.

This is how it is with pretty much everything in the game, if you dont want to wait for it then you can get it with plat.

Why is this all of a sudden some strange concept?

Let's not act like this isn't the simple argument of wanting stuff now that we always get with rare items because there seem to be a portion of the player base that never played an RPG game.

 

Im sure i did.

But to restate it..... it's a powerful weapon they dont want you to quickly get in two second and be done with.

It's a F2P game, they have to extend the amount of time you are playing it.

Do people not understand this? These type of games dont function like P2P games where they dump something that people can run through in couple days and then you wont see anything for 3 months.

 

Boltor is not an extra weapon.

 

This applies to basically all but the Sahasa.

Howl's range is way bigger than Wyrms stun and the Sunika wrecks enemies better than the Dethcube.

 

The advantages and disadvantages of both pets are pretty clear and i really dont see how anyone could have a problem with the obvious with this.  Sentinels are weaker but with no upkeep, dogs are stronger but with some upkeep.

 

Are you talking about another thread? Cause.... you are not the OP here. 

 

Correct, but it's still just ten plat. The buy in is extremely cheap so it can continue for longer, you can change them later on because it was so cheap.  Now the buy in to get different patterns and color is 50. You get to keep them but unless you get more and more color for 50 more plat, you are going to get left with a limited set of option. With the 100k plat you just end up with half of the palette being greys which all but one look the basically the same.

 

So far the cheapest customization option for kubs has been the color printer at 10 plat a spin. They could have adjusted it later on to where you put in more plat for a better chance at better colors and patters but they just gave up on it which screwed people that dont have that much plat. This is another complain here about he Kubs, people who dont have much plat are left with no options but continue breeding which is annoyingly long.

 

Like i said, each choice is going to have certain folks that dont agree with it. The best DE can do is navigate some results that can reached the most people. With eggs you either farm them or buy them, and buying them is pretty cheap.

Because if a player is dissatisfied with a game they're going to throw money at it, right? I mean we all willingly spend money on negative experiences when we could spend it on something we like instead.

 

Did you actually read the question Mak? Read and comprehend it? Because I think you missed a key part of the question.

 

Oh, we're done being vague and general now?  Well Sweeper is, and is capable of two shotting assassins. Still no upkeep or cool down.

 

I was unaware Raksas knocked down their targets, or that a Dethcube could pin a fleeing capture target. Silly me, how could I have missed that. They are totally the same thing just re-skinned with the exact same skill set.

 

See, this is why I question your reading skills. I know the word 'in' is kinda small and easy to overlook, but it's kind of an important word.

 

It's 10 Plat for a single random chance. I just listed five random results. It's statistically possible to hit that scramble button forever and not get something nicer than what's in one of the plat packs. There was that one guy who hit it 70 times before it was removed, after all.

The color packs are a guaranteed result for a set price. Also, one hundred thousand plat what?

 

Again, 10 plat for random is only cheap if you're lucky in the game. If you are, you have no need beyond boredom to press 'scramble'.

If you're not, you would be better off spending 500 plat on the trading forums as you'd save plat in the long run.

 

 

 

Or you wait for someone at DE to realize the drops are skewed and give everyone all those elusive drops in alerts so the kiddies can have their candy.

That will totally buy enough time to get the new shiny out so people forget there was ever a problem. [\sarcasm]

[Mak_Gohae]

Because if a player is dissatisfied with a game they're going to throw money at it, right? I mean we all willingly spend money on negative experiences when we could spend it on something we like instead.

 

You dont need to spend money to get plat. 

You know this, why are are you ignoring this?

 

Did you actually read the question Mak? Read and comprehend it? Because I think you missed a key part of the question.

 

Oh, we're done being vague and general now?  Well Sweeper is, and is capable of two shotting assassins. Still no upkeep or cool down.

 

The package it comes with is weaker than the kub package.

 

I was unaware Raksas knocked down their targets, or that a Dethcube could pin a fleeing capture target. Silly me, how could I have missed that. They are totally the same thing just re-skinned with the exact same skill set.

 

Sigh....

Making comparisons based on the equivalent.

See, this is why I question your reading skills. I know the word 'in' is kinda small and easy to overlook, but it's kind of an important word.

 

I think the problem here is your comprehension skills.

You pick one little bit of the discussion and ignore everything else because that's how you deal with giving feedback. We ignore everything but the one single thing that is bugging you. Because that's how you balance a game, you ignore everything but the one thing that is bugging you.

 

 

It's 10 Plat for a single random chance. I just listed five random results. It's statistically possible to hit that scramble button forever and not get something nicer than what's in one of the plat packs. There was that one guy who hit it 70 times before it was removed, after all.

The color packs are a guaranteed result for a set price. Also, one hundred thousand plat what?

 

I never claimed you were going to get what you wanted in less than five, i said it was cheaper over all and it's cheaper to continue.

 

You cant use the crazy maniac that rolled 2k times and the base because that crazy maniac now spends 800 plat for prints. He has the money to spend, period.

 

This is why i think removing the color printer was bad. All it did is screw over people that dont have a lot of plat.

Which is fine for DE because they want a lot of plat but it doesnt help push the kub when they have such a wall to climb to get them to work.

 

Again, 10 plat for random is only cheap if you're lucky in the game. If you are, you have no need beyond boredom to press 'scramble'.

If you're not, you would be better off spending 500 plat on the trading forums as you'd save plat in the long run.

 

No random is cheap if you dont have the money to spend, if you have the money to spend you are going to dump it anyway. Like you said, if you have the  500 plat to spend you are going to spend it anyway.

 

The scrambler argument was just players with big money complaining while the rest were ignored.

 

Or you wait for someone at DE to realize the drops are skewed and give everyone all those elusive drops in alerts so the kiddies can have their candy.

That will totally buy enough time to get the new shiny out so people forget there was ever a problem. [\sarcasm]

 

It has never been a problem. DE always releases stuff rare first then makes it easier later when new stuff comes out.

This is the norm with anything and i dont see how people still continue to make threads like this.

 

They are problably going to release a new type of egg later for a new set of Kubs and once that happens the first egg types are going to flow so just wait if you dont wish to easily collect 10 plat.

[Onisa]

You dont need to spend money to get plat. 

You know this, why are are you ignoring this?

 

The package it comes with is weaker than the kub package.

 

Sigh....

Making comparisons based on the equivalent.

I think the problem here is your comprehension skills.

You pick one little bit of the discussion and ignore everything else because that's how you deal with giving feedback. We ignore everything but the one single thing that is bugging you. Because that's how you balance a game, you ignore everything but the one thing that is bugging you.

 

I never claimed you were going to get what you wanted in less than five, i said it was cheaper over all and it's cheaper to continue.

 

You cant use the crazy maniac that rolled 2k times and the base because that crazy maniac now spends 800 plat for prints. He has the money to spend, period.

 

This is why i think removing the color printer was bad. All it did is screw over people that dont have a lot of plat.

Which is fine for DE because they want a lot of plat but it doesnt help push the kub when they have such a wall to climb to get them to work.

 

No random is cheap if you dont have the money to spend, if you have the money to spend you are going to dump it anyway. Like you said, if you have the  500 plat to spend you are going to spend it anyway.

 

The scrambler argument was just players with big money complaining while the rest were ignored.

 

It has never been a problem. DE always releases stuff rare first then makes it easier later when new stuff comes out.

This is the norm with anything and i dont see how people still continue to make threads like this.

 

They are problably going to release a new type of egg later for a new set of Kubs and once that happens the first egg types are going to flow so just wait if you dont wish to easily collect 10 plat.

Who ever said we were discussing the plight of players who made it to the magical realm of orokin cells? (Saturn is fourth still, right?) Kubrows are unlocked when you beat the second boss after all. I've been commenting on the difficulty of maintaining resource flow for new players since this conversation started, why are you ignoring this?

 

Arguable, as a larger hit box presents a larger target. You also have the ability to mix and match sentinels and their weapons, unlike the monotremes.

 

Except like I said, a Rakasa is a direct improvement over Shade, the sentinel with the same exact feature. Not an equivalent. A direct re-skin with buffs.

 

How does you misreading my statement about posting IN this thread translate to me not being able to comprehend?

I'm answering just about every point you've replied with Mak. I'm sorry if you have to read it a little more carefully because I can't be @ssed to multi quote every item separately. Though now I'm tempted to go back though all my posts here and collect everything you've glossed over or ignored. But hey, if turning my complaint back on me makes you feel better more power to ya.

 

Except by the definition of 'cheaper overall' you did. Cheaper per instance is what you're looking for.

 

I wasn't using the maniac that pressed the button two thousand times as an example. I was using the disgruntled founder who may or may not have gambling issues and more plat than sense that pressed the button 70 times as an example. If we're going to fling names at absent third parties we  should try to keep exaggerations to a minimum, after all.

 

According to you, if plat were any easier to acquire it would be credits, so why should 50 be any worse than 10?

 

Again, what difference does it matter if a player spends 500 plat scrambling over a month or all in one go?

 

Funny, it's player with deep pockets that stand to more reliably make something from the scrambler's mechanics. That thing was a pretty good embodiment of 'you can't make money without spending money'.

I can't speak for others, but paying a premium currency (tradeable plat) for a maybe is not a good thing. Hit that button for as long as you like and then pay 10 plat to 'save changes' when you got something worth it? Fine.

 

What game are you playing? Drop tables have always been a cause for concern. Except when it doesn't get easier.

I recently had to trade for a Burston prime blueprint after burning out on ODD . Got tired of keys, though the mutagen masses at wave ten were a nice addition. T3D was no better. By your reasoning that blueprint should have practically fallen into my lap, considering how old it is.

 

Assuming those Kubrow are unlocked at a later stage in the game the current drawbacks could very well be appropriate. But we won't know until it happens, now, will we? Also, I simply adore all this projecting you're doing. As stated several times earlier in the thread, I have no issue with my personal drop rate. I am speaking up for newer players and others who may not be so lucky.

[Mak_Gohae]

Who ever said we were discussing the plight of players who made it to the magical realm of orokin cells? (Saturn is fourth still, right?)

 

Huh? Whats this all about?

 

Kubrows are unlocked when you beat the second boss after all. I've been commenting on the difficulty of maintaining resource flow for new players since this conversation started, why are you ignoring this?

 

When you load up the game you can go to the market and see the Sentinel BP.

Does that mean a player should get 100k and all the resources needed because he can see the BP?

 

This is the weirdest argument ever.

Ok folks, every weapon in game and frame is free and you get simply by clicking on the icon because you can see it.

What?

 

Arguable, as a larger hit box presents a larger target. You also have the ability to mix and match sentinels and their weapons, unlike the monotremes.

 

So now Sentinels are better?

What point are you trying to explain?

Make a point and then let's discuss this point. From post to post you keep saying how BOTH pets have cool things and i dont know what you are trying to achieve. Are both pets good? Yes. Are both pet bad? Yes. Huh?

 

Except like I said, a Rakasa is a direct improvement over Shade, the sentinel with the same exact feature. Not an equivalent. A direct re-skin with buffs

 

....... so i lost you in comparing the advantages and disadvantages on both sides.

Now on this section the Kubrows are super dope even though before you said their benefits arent all that cool .

 

What are you actually trying to say? All you are doing is arguing specific points ignoring everything else and i dont know why.

 

 

Look, make one point and we will start from there. I am not going to continue discussing here when you say one thing in one post then the very next you contradict yourself. Cause seriously, i dont even know what the discussion about at this point. Each post i have to treat as a new conversion because you just switch up your position.

[Onisa]

Huh? Whats this all about?

 

When you load up the game you can go to the market and see the Sentinel BP.

Does that mean a player should get 100k and all the resources needed because he can see the BP?

 

This is the weirdest argument ever.

Ok folks, every weapon in game and frame is free and you get simply by clicking on the icon because you can see it.

What?

 

So now Sentinels are better?

What point are you trying to explain?

Make a point and then let's discuss this point. From post to post you keep saying how BOTH pets have cool things and i dont know what you are trying to achieve. Are both pets good? Yes. Are both pet bad? Yes. Huh?

 

....... so i lost you in comparing the advantages and disadvantages on both sides.

Now on this section the Kubrows are super dope even though before you said their benefits arent all that cool .

 

What are you actually trying to say? All you are doing is arguing specific points ignoring everything else and i dont know why.

 

 

Look, make one point and we will start from there. I am not going to continue discussing here when you say one thing in one post then the very next you contradict yourself. Cause seriously, i dont even know what the discussion about at this point. Each post i have to treat as a new conversion because you just switch up your position.

You seriously can't understand that I'm referring to the game contents of Earth, Venus, and Mercury form that line, even when taken in context of the rest of the section? Maybe that's the problem, I'll start writing like my intended audience knows nothing on the subject like public school wanted me to in the 90's.

 

If you want to compare something hidden behind several menu options to something the game gives you for playing that's fine. The resource requirements are miniscule for sentinels, the most difficult being the blueprint cost of 100k credits. Although I'm having issues finding where I said players should get things instantly. The only argument I'm finding is the frustration one, which references a personal countdown from when a player finds out about an item in game to when they give up trying to get it if they've failed thus far.

 

I'm saying the same thing I've been saying this entire conversation, that when placed on a balance containing what they do vs what they cost Sentinels are the better choice with a sole exception. It's almost like you're skimming over everything without actually processing what I wrote.

I admit that for most people new=cool, and that there is a little bit of power creep involved. That does not negate the fact that one item you buy outright while the other is basically a 30 year mortgage after a sizable down payment.

 

No, I misused equivalent. My bad, but that's what I get for replying into the wee hours of the morning. I still can't think of the term for 'filling similar roles in different ways'. Oh well, it'll come to me days after this thread has died.

Back to the topic at hand. There is only one direct equivalent between Sentinels and Kubrows. Just because there's a DPSer and a Crowd Controller, and a Resource Helper on both sides of the fence doesn't mean the roles are handled in the same way. Hence my sarcastic remark a couple replies back.

 

The previous two sections go over this and I'd rather not retype the whole thing. But apparently I'm ignoring most of the things. Can you or even a third party enlighten me to what I'm ignoring? I know it can be easier to see the nuances of a conversation when you read it fresh in one go. Perhaps a third party can point out to both of us what we've ignored from the other.

 

Mak, with the exception of one admitted vocabulary flub I've been saying the same thing every post. For the most part replies have been tangently  connected at best and certainly taking huge leaps to get to conclusions I neither intended nor harbored. And I've tried to drag the point back in line every time. This whole conversation has felt like a simple trip to the next state over turning into 'how did we leave the country'. But at least people are liking the show.

[SignalWarden]

I feel that Kubrow eggs should drop from a single mission that scales with party size but is REALLY hard. I'd much prefer direct difficulty than playing with RNG. Make me go to Kubrow Valley and have to fight hundreds of Kubrow and then beat the Den mother. That leads me to a cave (aka 2nd mission) where I fight the Alpha Kubrow for a random egg drop. I'd take that ANY DAY over having to RNG dens over and over. 

[Mak_Gohae]

You seriously can't understand that I'm referring to the game contents of Earth, Venus, and Mercury form that line, even when taken in context of the rest of the section? Maybe that's the problem, I'll start writing like my intended audience knows nothing on the subject like public school wanted me to in the 90's.

 

 

I replied to that silly argument about starting the quest in venus very clearly.

I dont need to repeat it.

BTW, dont know what this has to do with egg drop rates.

 

If you want to compare something hidden behind several menu options to something the game gives you for playing that's fine. The resource requirements are miniscule for sentinels, the most difficult being the blueprint cost of 100k credits. Although I'm having issues finding where I said players should get things instantly. The only argument I'm finding is the frustration one, which references a personal countdown from when a player finds out about an item in game to when they give up trying to get it if they've failed thus far.

 

I'm saying the same thing I've been saying this entire conversation, that when placed on a balance containing what they do vs what they cost Sentinels are the better choice with a sole exception. It's almost like you're skimming over everything without actually processing what I wrote.

I admit that for most people new=cool, and that there is a little bit of power creep involved. That does not negate the fact that one item you buy outright while the other is basically a 30 year mortgage after a sizable down payment.

 

Alright now that we are starting again with this, your view is that Seninels are better overall, correct?

This means counting both disadvantages and advantages.

 

No, I misused equivalent. My bad, but that's what I get for replying into the wee hours of the morning. I still can't think of the term for 'filling similar roles in different ways'. Oh well, it'll come to me days after this thread has died.

Back to the topic at hand. There is only one direct equivalent between Sentinels and Kubrows. Just because there's a DPSer and a Crowd Controller, and a Resource Helper on both sides of the fence doesn't mean the roles are handled in the same way. Hence my sarcastic remark a couple replies back.

 

I am just saying the equivalent, not the "direct equivalent" or anything else. Of course they apply their methods differently because they are different kind of pets, one is melee and other is range.  And my point with this was that the kubrow equivalent has stronger powers which is why there is a bigger buy-in than the sentinels. Sentinels have one life then it's gone while the Kubrow can keep coming back. The kubs have several things that are better so they need something to balance that out. This is why it's a bit hard to get them if you choose to farm for them.

[Onisa]

I replied to that silly argument about starting the quest in venus very clearly.

I dont need to repeat it.

BTW, dont know what this has to do with egg drop rates.

 

 

 

Alright now that we are starting again with this, your view is that Seninels are better overall, correct?

This means counting both disadvantages and advantages.

 

 

 

I am just saying the equivalent, not the "direct equivalent" or anything else. Of course they apply their methods differently because they are different kind of pets, one is melee and other is range.  And my point with this was that the kubrow equivalent has stronger powers which is why there is a bigger buy-in than the sentinels. Sentinels have one life then it's gone while the Kubrow can keep coming back. The kubs have several things that are better so they need something to balance that out. This is why it's a bit hard to get them if you choose to farm for them.

So your argument is players should not start a quest when they receive it while my argument is players should be able to complete a quest in a reasonable amount of time when they unlock it. A big part of that reasonable amount of time is not having to spend weeks looking for an egg.

Does that clear things up?

 

My view is that when you take into consideration the pros and cons of individual kubrows and sentinels the sentinels come out on top in most instances. In other words, yes kubrow have better stats or do the job in different ways but they don't do it well enough to justify the massive increase in cost.

 

Definitions of words, Mak. I know I fudged up on the terminology and somewhere started misnaming the invisi-dog. I know that comparing Sunikas to Dethcubes is like comparing apples to oranges. Sure they're both fruit and grow on trees, but that's where the resemblance ends.

However comparing a Huras to a Shade is like comparing oranges to grapefruit. Their special abilities aren't just in the same catagory, they do the exact same thing. Except one does it way better.

I could get into the whole mods and survivability issue of aggro and hit boxes but that's another tangent and I think we've both gone off on enough of those.