A Buff Of Shade Sentinel Ghost Ability Or A Nerf Of Huras Kubrow Stalk Ability Is Needed

[Melkia]

Keep in mind the kubrows already have far superior survivability, and higher dps. Sentinals die pretty easy and once they are gone they are gone, kubrows you can revive in combat. All of that seems like enough of a trade off for the maintenance of keeping a kubrow.

 

When it comes to special skills on any companion they need to all be balanced with one another.

 

The thing is Kubrows HAVE to be superiour in any way, otherwise they wouldn't be worth the effort and the resources. And really the only one of your points i can agree with is the revive.

 

Sentinels will NEVER EVER get damaged unless it's an AOE attack, and a sweeper with corrosive and blast is a very good blend of DPS and AOE CC. Kubrows on the other hand only have better single target dps(but imo sweeper still wins) and single target CC avaiable only to Sunika and Sahasa(except for the Raksa, but still it's a fear... not always useful).

 

The range and the reload are negligible since also the Kubrows only engage at a certain range and at a certain rate.

 

Edited September 8, 2014 by Melkia

[RexRgisIocus]

Keep in mind that for a kub to even come close to the dps of sents it would need the mythical Bite mod that's so easy to find.

[Sev7n]

Apparently kubrows have not been out long enough for some of you to realize how much more effective they are compared to sentinals. 

No point arguing on something people have little knowledge about.

 

not going to partake in the derailing of this thread any further

[Catalyst1945]

No, i think the Huras ability HAS to be better, since before getting a huras you first have to:

 

-pray RNGesus for an egg

-spend 100K and an Argon on a power core

-pray RNGesus again for a Huras(did you get a Huras?YES?Then continue reading.NO?Start all over again. D:  )

-wait almost a week (between hatching and growing)

-occasionally spend 75K for stabilizers to be sure your doge doesn't die of DNA degradation

 

On the other hand to get a shade you have to:

-go to the market

-buy a blueprint for 100K

-craft it using 20K(30 maybe can't remember) and crappy materials

-wait for 24 hours

-THE END.

 

Seriously, think before clogging the forums with bad feedback.

I still find that hilarious. RNGesus. I don't know why xD

[Melkia]

Passing over the "bad feedback"... not everybody shares your/my opinions, but i m not telling theirs are bad for that

I acknowledge that kubrows are a little more difficult & expensive to maintain, never told that they didn t have to be a little superior to sentinels (even then, there s now enough kubrows imprints floating in market to get the exact one you want)

The amount by which it is superior is my issue: they are tougher, with more DPS & more powerful abilities: that is what irks me

With the things as they are now, there is nearly no incentive to use the sentinel compared to the kubrow except that they don t have an upkeep cost, even the sentinels ranged attacks don t really compare when you make the calculations

I m only telling that sentinels should have "something" which makes you want to use it. the difference beetween the 2 cloaking abilities is the most iconic

I m not especially asking for a nerf, my choice of words was bad if that s what you think, I m asking for some way to balance the use beetween the 2

 

Sorry if the bad feedback part offended you, but lately the forums are full of it, and maybe your wasn't the case specifically.

 

Anyway i didn't share my opinion, I just stated facts, and unless i've missed some resources and/or some steps, that's pretty much how the process of aquiring a doge or a sentinel is structured. 

Edited September 8, 2014 by Melkia

[RexRgisIocus]

But isn't the point of the thread to discuss things? to give feedback? Tell us how Kubs are better than sents while taking consideration of the fact that kubs are rng based for starters, they require maintenance, their dps is heavily reliant on rare (Bite) mods, they lose dps if they die or if you don't log in (they lose 20% loyalty even if they don't die just because you didn't take them on missions for a at least twice a day) and they don't revive when you do during missions (if they actually die that is).

 

Also almost all the kubrow mods are r10 mods so another credit and core sink.

 

Sents don't need to be equal to kubs, they need to be an alternative to the grind.

 

Having sents be as good as kubs would be like having Karak (market wep meaning easy to get) be as good as Boltor P (void drops meaning grind (it is already better than Braton P as is which it shouldnt)).

[manub]

Np for the feedback part, I m also annoyed by some posts, the best thing to do is to take a deep breath & try exposing your point with sounding aggressive. I ve found that works best

 

other facts I think?

1- can t really say about the egg, but last time I farmed for 1, 2-3 games were sufficient to get one

2- spending creds: creds are the easiest farmable ressource of the game: regularly invasions can give you 35000 creds for 5 missions, not counting the creds you get in the mission, if you don t find some check the dark sectors conflict & the outrageous battlepays clans give

3- argon for a powercore: rarer ok, but just go to recruiting tab & you can find more void missions than you'll ever want to do, with prime parts (to sell for plat) & formas & creds (again creds) in bonus

4- kubrow type RNG: as I said in trading tab you can find whatever you want

5- waiting time: ok nothing to do with that but frankly, is waiting that hard?

 

 

But isn't the point of the thread to discuss things? to give feedback? Tell us how Kubs are better than sents while taking consideration of the fact that kubs are rng based for starters, they require maintenance, their dps is heavily reliant on rare (Bite) mods, they lose dps if they die or if you don't log in (they lose 20% loyalty even if they don't die just because you didn't take them on missions for a at least twice a day) and they don't revive when you do during missions (if they actually die that is).

 

Also almost all the kubrow mods are r10 mods so another credit and core sink.

 

Sents don't need to be equal to kubs, they need to be an alternative to the grind.

 

Having sents be as good as kubs would be like having Karak (market wep meaning easy to get) be as good as Boltor P (void drops meaning grind (it is already better than Braton P as is which it shouldnt)).

and you said it: they need to be an alternative, but as things are now the differences of power between the 2 are so important that they aren't

Edited September 8, 2014 by manub

[RexRgisIocus]

@manub Buying prints (for ridiculous amount of plats unless the price has gone down) still doesn't guarantee you the kubs type though. Having two Sahasa prints from the same kub would make it more likely, maybe something like 75% chance, but It would not be a guaranteed thing. People in my clan have wasted close to 400 plats on prints trying to get Sunikas or Raksas without any luck, granted that's rng at its best, but it is still a possibility.

 

Besides if I wanted to use plat on kubs I would do it if they were on the market by type and patterns so that I could avoid the grind.

 

Wasting plat on an rng based system that isn't 100% reliable is not something I would advise people to do.

 

And besides the only noticeable difference is only when comparing Shade to Huras. Carrier is more useful for most players than Sahasa although I prefer my digger and Sunika isn't that much better than Dethcube if at all since it can use Sanctuary and Guardian on top of doing insane damage.

Edited September 8, 2014 by RexRgisIocus

[manub]

@manub Buying prints (for ridiculous amount of plats unless the price has gone down) still doesn't guarantee you the kubs type though. Having two Sahasa prints from the same kub would make it more likely, maybe something like 75% chance, but It would not be a guaranteed thing. People in my clan have wasted close to 400 plats on prints trying to get Sunikas or Raksas without any luck, granted that's rng at its best, but it is still a possibility.

 

Besides if I wanted to use plat on kubs I would do it if they were on the market by type and patterns so that I could avoid the grind.

 

Wasting plat on an rng based system that isn't 100% reliable is not something I would advise people to do.

 

And besides the only noticeable difference is only when comparing Shade to Huras. Carrier is more useful for most players than Sahasa although I prefer my digger and Sunika isn't that much better than Dethcube if at all since it can use Sanctuary and Guardian on top of doing insane damage.

I didn t use any of the plat I have & I got the imprints I wanted fine, just traded imprints or prime parts to get them

the stealth ability is the most iconic, some of the abilities are in my opinion too powerful compared to the sentinel abilities but I can live with others being of another opinion. shade/huras needs to be balanced though

[Melkia]

I dunno man, i just feel the Huras Stalk is fine as it is, and has all the rights of being better than Ghost(the visual effect is a bit odd though, looks too artificial for me, but that's an entirely different matter).

 

The only thing i can think of is buffing Shade's Ghost range, since now is pretty meh, even with the mod maxed.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Melkia

[manub]

A new thread has been opened by some1 else

closing this one, for further comments go there:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/306544-kubrows-vs-sentinals/

[Marthrym]

How about personal experience since there is no "proof" on the internet atm. Or better yet how about simple logic.

 

Sweeper has limited range. Requires you to be within sight of an enemy. Slow rate of fire. Requires reloading between clips.

 

Kubrows have much larger range. Dont require you to be within sight of an enemy. Do not require reloading. And can cc an enemy. (talking about the basic jump up on an enemy that all kubrows do).

 

I have a 3 forma'd sweeper, 1 forma'd death machine and each type of kubrow. My kubrows have done more sustained dps than both my sweeper and death machine. My kubrows also can survive infinitely while an aoe explosion will instantly destroy my sentinals.

 

 

Edit: They are obviously not balanced in terms of dps and utility. Being superior in the special skills such as stalk is not needed and even interferes with warframe powers making some frames more overpowered than they should be. 

Simple logic... Okay.

 

Sweeper has limited range. Kubrows have NO range. So what's your point here?

 

Also, Sweeper has "aimbot". It doesn't miss much, if at all. Granted Kubrows don't miss much either (it would be weird for melee units to miss often^^'), and can go attack whatever enemy they want when Sentinels are "stuck" with you. So it's up to preference I'd say. As for DPS, whether sustained or not, no reliable way to prove which is better yet, and even with a tool to calculate theoretical DPS, unless it can also "calculate" the other variables everyone tends to forget when talking about DPS, we're stuck with our respective opinions.^^

 

Slow fire rate/reload time? Mods say "HELLO!" A modded Sweeper has a higher firerate than any Kubrow's attack rate. Just saying.

Also, you can use elements with Sentinels. Blast and Radiation make great Crowd Control tools. Enemies coming from behind often end up on their butts or killing each others. Kubrows can't use elements. They can do Crowd Control though, some breeds more reliably and more often than others. So for CC I'm sorry but again, I can't really agree with you on Kubrow superiority. Not saying they're inferior either mind you. Once again, it's all about preference and opinion.^^

 

Kubrows are resilient, much more so than Sentinels. Well DUH, of course they are, how could they be viable if they weren't?^^'

They need to close the gap with enemies and have their own aggro. Sentinels are mostly prone to AOE attacks, like you said. They are fragile too, especially when compared to fully modded Kubrows. Luckily, they don't get directly attacked much, even if they tend to take stray projectiles right in the "face" sometimes...^^'

 

The one thing that makes Kubrows very different from Sentinels is how their stats are tied to the frames we use. Link Health/Shield/Armor are directly influenced by the frames we use. Which actually can make our furballs EXTREMELY hard to kill.

Example : Melee build Valkyr with a Sahasa (well it works with any kubrow, but Sahasas have a little more health than other breeds, so I give them the edge. And I love their utility too so...^^).

 

My point is, it's all based on opinions and preferences. Both our posts are influenced by our personal experiences. I generally prefer Sentinels because their utility to cost ratio seems way more balanced (which doesn't matter for "veteran" players with lots of ressources and credits, I know^^), but my favourite is my Sahasa with my melee build Valkyr, because for me it has both the utility and survivability I seek.^^

And I don't really care which does more damage, that's what my guns are here for.^^

Edited September 8, 2014 by Marthrym

[Semshol]

Kubrow's ability isn't OP, it's Shade's that sucks. It doesn't detect enemies within a 5  meter range, it flickers and it's constantly turning itself off.  Also, "omg sentinels are better than kubrows, stop using kubrows you noobs"

"omg kubrows are good? ffs nerf kubrows or buff sentinels"

No. Learn to take care of a Kubrow and make advantage of it. If you can't bother, then you stick with the less powerfull but less costly alternative.

 

Sentinels are stronger if you use the same mods you would on your primary weapons (i.e. also requires as many forma to fit everything on there maxed). However Shade was never meant to be a DPS sentinel. For DPS the Cube is ideal, or Wyrm Prime for CC + DPS.

 

Kubs do have survivability etc, but I find them far less reliable. Those who know how to use their sentinels will even use them as a pseudo-enemy radar to tell you where enemies are hiding etc. I only have to look at their direction of fire and follow the sight.

 

In the end, it doesn't even matter, it's how you use what you are given, not what you are given by what you use.

[Monolake]

Huras confirmed OP its better than Loki invis if you don't shoot, the range and duration are silly high, you have almost perma-invis for nothing.

And I speak from the experience of running silly high levels where everything 100% oneshots you and Huras invis saves big time letting you safely walk past lvl1000s.

 

Also wtf with buffing Raksa scare ability to slowdown wile Necros Terrify is being ignored for a year. Please. 

Edited September 8, 2014 by Monolake

[RealPandemonium]

Was Ghost nerfed because it was too powerful, or because of an oversight?  Its current behavior does not appear to be intentional; it's just out of the DE's radar.