Light Cant Travel Through Walls But Energy Can

[Metalarcher]

On a companies mind it should always be top priority attending to the masses and if you look at the major triple A companies, that's how most of them work.

 

Call of Duty is easily the best game of our generation.

 

GG.

[Slamyourjam]

Call of Duty is easily the best game of our generation.

 

GG.

 

Its not about being "the best game" which is subjective. Its about selling well and Call of Duty manages that.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Lol coming from someone that has a Trinity avatar.

Ad hominem.

[audabon]

Source? there hasn\t been any word on any other abilties changes (despite a year ongoing reports that they are underpowered and unreliable)

 

 

They officially said it will be affected by LOS and awarness, which automatically makes the skill inferior to every other  CC that ignores any obstacles and enemy state. No one will use Excalibur after such a nerf.

way back in the thread @luke came in here to attack me because he felt @metal was being attacked; bragging about being invited to the design council.  saying he was proving his cred. now he is trying to reassure people that all will be well.  unknown if design council has anything to do with these sorts of changes, but he has chosen to use this link to DE as his leverage.  i would say that linking himself to DE and DE to HIS words was not the most responsible course of action, but thats just me.  im not going to bring any affiliations into a forum, because thats irresponsible to do so in my opinion.

 

he doesnt seem trustworthy and his remarks make me question why a person like that gets invited to the design council and also the people who did the inviting.  his zeal seems a bit "stoolpigeon" to be honest.

 

we dont know whats to come of Ex.  be it good or bad.  the revert was neccessary for now.  

 

however,  the way DE has explained themselves does come off a bit odd.  proclaiming that they just found out blind could be maxed to 60m (58.8m), as if they didnt know the math on that already, seems silly.  if someone was inclined to be overly judgemental they could call that revelation incompetence at this point.  i would think thats being too harsh.

 

additionally, it wouldve been prudent to include something more encompassing showing what they see as a balance pass for all aoes, for all blind mechanics.  the lack of this is obviously fueling the rage.  how many posts have cited mirage and/or oberon??  DE does not need players walking around touting their design council status trying to reassure people.  they could and should be putting out their own fires.

 

i would be displeased if blind gets nerfed no matter what happens to his toolkit.  it serves a very distinct purpose.  changes to its energy cost, or the 100% blind for 25% distance then LOS applies option are both valid changes.  however, some sort of entire blanket fix does not really do it justice.

 

i cant directly affect what DE or people like @luke do,  but i would suggest DE takes the reigns better and coaches their pseudo-employees on the design council not to sully their name.  by appointing these people in loose affiliation they now reflect to a lesser degree on DE and how it manages this product.  though this is solely my opinion,  will most likely go unnoticed, thats just fine by me.

[Monolake]

 

we dont know whats to come of Ex.  be it good or bad.  the revert was neccessary for now.  

 

however,  the way DE has explained themselves does come off a bit odd.  proclaiming that they just found out blind could be maxed to 60m (58.8m), as if they didnt know the math on that already, seems silly.  if someone was inclined to be overly judgemental they could call that revelation incompetence at this point.  i would think thats being too harsh.

 

additionally, it wouldve been prudent to include something more encompassing showing what they see as a balance pass for all aoes, for all blind mechanics.  the lack of this is obviously fueling the rage.  how many posts have cited mirage and/or oberon??  DE does not need players walking around touting their design council status trying to reassure people.  they could and should be putting out their own fires. ... 

 

At least they made a poll in the 'hot topics', they  hear us. Lets hope for good changes. 

[Somedude1000]

If Excalibur is reworked, I reeally hope his balance is kept so he can ontinue to have 2 mobilty, 2 defesne tools, to maintain his balanced playstyle.

Also, anyone else feel Radial Javeling swhould be similar to Prototypes Groundspike Graveyard Devastator, bot with swords? >.>

 

 

[SquirmyBurrito]

Actually light (photons) can travel through walls just fine, *visible* light can't. You're phone works in your room - radio waves are photons just with a different wavelength. Excal's Radial Blind can manipulate the wavelengths of Light. They start out as gamma rays, pass through any obstacle and then shift into the visible frequency range to blind enemies. Different lifeforms (or corpus sensors) have different visible ranges and since Excal's ability can change wavelengths, he can blind any faction.

 

There, a working pseudo-scientific explanation for Radial Blind - not that it matters as long as the guy next to you can resurrect the dead and punch the "soul" out of things. :)

 

If he could do that, there is no reason for him to bother 'shifting' it to visible light. He'd be better off bombarding them with gamma radiation or microwaving their brain/eyes.

[Renegade343]

If he could do that, there is no reason for him to bother 'shifting' it to visible light. He'd be better off bombarding them with gamma radiation or microwaving their brain/eyes.

Microwaves take quite a bit of time to start cooking someone's eyes (denaturing proteins in the eyes). 

 

Gamma rays, if lots of them are shot into someone's eyes in a short amount of time, will quickly boil someone's eyes. 

[LukeAura]

Source? there hasn\t been any word on any other abilties changes (despite a year ongoing reports that they are underpowered and unreliable)

Nothing official, but it was heavily implied in one of Rebecca's post on the matter. I think the poll very well confirms everything is being touched on though. Threads locked, can't quote, providing link.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/308245-stealth-balance-changes-are-not-appreciated/page-2#entry3493149

"there is a hotfix coming to change Excal (biggest fire) then we will chase down rest of info as Meg mentioned earlier." 

Change, not nerf, biggest fire implying larger scale. And the rest of the info would imply that there is more being  changed than we know as well. 

 

 

way back in the thread @luke came in here to attack me because he felt @metal was being attacked; bragging about being invited to the design council.  saying he was proving his cred. now he is trying to reassure people that all will be well.  unknown if design council has anything to do with these sorts of changes, but he has chosen to use this link to DE as his leverage.  i would say that linking himself to DE and DE to HIS words was not the most responsible course of action, but thats just me.  im not going to bring any affiliations into a forum, because thats irresponsible to do so in my opinion.

 

he doesnt seem trustworthy and his remarks make me question why a person like that gets invited to the design council and also the people who did the inviting.  his zeal seems a bit "stoolpigeon" to be honest.

You are the one who attacked someone because you assumed he had a lack of knowledge and experience without knowing so.

Thus I gave you my credentials, it was not an attack, nor bragging.

Pick one. You can not blame me for 'bragging' when you would have dismissed me without those merits same as you did archer. 

Nor do I hold any affiliation to DE, nor ever claimed to. I merely asserted that my ideas were valued, and thus my opinion is one considered of a certain level of quality. You are the one who would not accept someones opinion because it wasn't experienced enough in your eyes, so I gave you my experience. 

Edited September 13, 2014 by LukeAura

[LukeAura]

THAT IS A NERF, Radial Blind is nerfed you even said it in your own sentence. 

>"They're not nerfing him, they are changing him."

>"He is likely getting a full compliment of adjustments, containing buffs, and the radial blind nerf."

A change that is negative is a nerf. A change that is positive is a buff... 

I haven't seen the buffs planned but I'm sure you have the insider info on that, he's getting buffed in some aspects and nerfed in other as we've seen with Radial Blind.

As I said it's irrelevant if they released it accidentally or not the point is that they intended to nerf him.

 

*cough* I don't see that relevant. *cough* please stay on topic, I never asked you where you reside. Who's talking about Rob Ford!? Why even mention him, I was showing that people who have gone through years of education and qualifications with powerful jobs don't make good choices either and those two people are very powerful. We are humans and as such even with experience we naturally approach others for guidance. 

You continue to prove my point. You are only looking at one aspect and not the whole. Even outright refusing to think of this as more than just a nerf.

A nerf is wholly negative, a change includes both buffs and nerfs. One aspect of him is getting nerfed, I never denied that, but the whole of him is being brought up overall. You are only looking at one skill and not the entire frame. 

That is why the majority is not always right. The majority rarely looks at the whole of the scope. Once Excalibur receives his whole list of changes he might be even better than before, even with a weaker Radial Blind. 

And that is what I was trying to explain with my situation, you brought up people that have no relation to me, without explaining a thing about them to me.

But I am not allowed to bring up a person and then take the step further explain his significance to my point? He is just like the people you brought up, years of experience, very powerful, but hasn't made the best decisions. HOWEVER, that is only in one aspect that people choose to focus on with him. The whole of of his efforts have actually been positive for the city. Think about the people you are currently saying are fools and do more research, they might have accomplished more than you think in their time, or perhaps it is not directly their faults for what goes wrong. Government is not a single man, but a whole group of them. Obama faces a lot of opposition, perhaps he is being sabotaged from people less in the spotlight an taking the brunt of the failures that occur because they can not come to an agreement with him.  

It was unfortunate that the Blind nerf came out unintentionally, but it was unintentional. It says nothing about what Excalibur will be afterwards, people should stop acting like its the end of the world because of one thing they don't like. That is called being reasonable. 

[Alphafox]

It was unfortunate that the Blind nerf came out unintentionally, but it was unintentional. It says nothing about what Excalibur will be afterwards, people should stop acting like its the end of the world because of one thing they don't like. That is called being reasonable. 

You were one of the person defending that nerf even before they announced it was a mistake but whatever that's another topic.

 

It's so easy to screw up and say ''Oh it was unintentional''. It was released,got ingame,stayed there for more than 12h before we heard something from DE staff. People reactions are totally justified. Asking people to calm down when something was definitely wrong is also unreasonable. Being vocal about it is way better than staying passive and just watching what happens.

Once again, You or I have no idea if it was truly unintentional.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Alphafox

[vaugahn]

It's so easy to screw up and say ''Oh it was unintentional''. It was released,got ingame,stayed there for more than 12h before we heard something from DE staff. People reactions are totally justified. Asking people to calm down when something was definitely wrong is also unreasonable. Being vocal about it is way better than staying passive and just watching what happens.

Once again, You or I have no idea if it was truly unintentional.

 

Well... I guess DE could be lying to us about everything? What would they have to gain from that? I mean, as much as people might like to think it I'm sure they aren't idiots.

[Alphafox]

Well... I guess DE could be lying to us about everything? What would they have to gain from that? I mean, as much as people might like to think it I'm sure they aren't idiots.

I'm not saying that they are idiots, but some actions they take are quite disputable.

[vaugahn]

I'm not saying that they are idiots, but some actions they take are quite disputable.

 

In the end it's their game, and they're professional game developers.

 

I'm not going to pretend I understand why they do things, or why the do them in the order they do, but considering their track record and results I'm assuming they know what they're doing.

[LukeAura]

You were one of the person defending that nerf even before they announced it was a mistake but whatever that's another topic.

 

It's so easy to screw up and say ''Oh it was unintentional''. It was released,got ingame,stayed there for more than 12h before we heard something from DE staff. People reactions are totally justified. Asking people to calm down when something was definitely wrong is also unreasonable. Being vocal about it is way better than staying passive and just watching what happens.

Once again, You or I have no idea if it was truly unintentional.

That is because I've always believe it was OP, it was merely a crutch to hold Excalibur standing until they put him under the knife for major re-constructive surgery, others agreed witih me, so it really says nothing unless we're all spies and insiders. I'm certainly not the smartest person on the forums, nor am I in any way a game developer of my own. They would more likely share their secrets with Notion or Volt than with me. I merely read this as a sign of greater things, and took Rebecca's wording in her post as more clues. My hunch was right.

They have claimed it was unintentional, and they have no reason to lie. It was not listed in the patch notes or in a psa which they have always done, even for nerfs so precedent does not favour it. The proof favours being unintentional, it's just not conclusive, but to say it was intentional and not a simple mistake would be far-fetched.  12H isn't that long either. If they don't see the complaints day one, they sleep for 6-8 hours too, and by the time they realize that this is a commonly occurring issue with his blind, they finally understand it's not just rumour or a loadout mistake ending his blind early, but a confirmed problem. 12H is entirely reasonable. If it had gone on for days, then maybe you would be correct to say so.  

 

Edited September 13, 2014 by LukeAura

[sedu13]

In the end it's their game, and they're professional game developers.

 

I'm not going to pretend I understand why they do things, or why the do them in the order they do, but considering their track record and results I'm assuming they know what they're doing.

Considering their track record I would assume the oposite.:

 

Frost was a one trick pony for ever and they nerfed Snow Globe without considering what would happen to him.

Nerfed Iron Skin back when Stomp wasn't that hot and Radial Blast sucked.

Volt was left in the trash for ages until he got buffed.

lolAsh

lolBanshee

lolEmber

lolRhino Prime is as fast as Loki

Dera had 9 damage at launch.

Supra is still garbage, especially for a research weapon.

Excalibur only has Radial Blind as a decent skill, and I really don't believe DE was going to rebalance him without the community complaining.

 

DE is bad at balance, most of those things got changed because the community pointed out how bad they were, DE didn't even think before implementing them.

[vaugahn]

Considering their track record I would assume the oposite.:

 

DE is bad at balance, most of those things got changed because the community pointed out how bad they were, DE didn't even think before implementing them.

 

By track record I mean all previous games they have produced. As this game is still in development things like that are going to happen.

 

As I said, I don't know why they balance in the order they balance in. However based on previous games I've played made by them, it's obvious they know how.

[sedu13]

By track record I mean all previous games they have produced. As this game is still in development things like that are going to happen.

 

As I said, I don't know why they balance in the order they balance in. However based on previous games I've played made by them, it's obvious they know how.

Not really.

 

Dark Sector was basic, Bioshock 2 MP was unbalanced and Unreal had Epic's hand on it.

[theammostore]

Why not nerf radial blind so that it makes sense, IE requires line of sight, and also buff up hiss other abilities. Slash dash is effected by stealth multiplier, applies elemental damage if any are on your weapon, and moves you a set distance instead of moves you for a certain amount of time. Super jump knocks enemies over upon jump and landing, but doesn't do any damage, and javelin pierces one layer of enemies or the grineer shields.

 

There, more balanced Excal

[Slamyourjam]

You continue to prove my point. You are only looking at one aspect and not the whole. Even outright refusing to think of this as more than just a nerf.

A nerf is wholly negative, a change includes both buffs and nerfs. One aspect of him is getting nerfed, I never denied that, but the whole of him is being brought up overall. You are only looking at one skill and not the entire frame. 

That is why the majority is not always right. The majority rarely looks at the whole of the scope. Once Excalibur receives his whole list of changes he might be even better than before, even with a weaker Radial Blind. 

And that is what I was trying to explain with my situation, you brought up people that have no relation to me, without explaining a thing about them to me.

But I am not allowed to bring up a person and then take the step further explain his significance to my point? He is just like the people you brought up, years of experience, very powerful, but hasn't made the best decisions. HOWEVER, that is only in one aspect that people choose to focus on with him. The whole of of his efforts have actually been positive for the city. Think about the people you are currently saying are fools and do more research, they might have accomplished more than you think in their time, or perhaps it is not directly their faults for what goes wrong. Government is not a single man, but a whole group of them. Obama faces a lot of opposition, perhaps he is being sabotaged from people less in the spotlight an taking the brunt of the failures that occur because they can not come to an agreement with him.  

It was unfortunate that the Blind nerf came out unintentionally, but it was unintentional. It says nothing about what Excalibur will be afterwards, people should stop acting like its the end of the world because of one thing they don't like. That is called being reasonable. 

 

What is there to look beyond of? The ability is nerfed, that's my point I never once stated the warframe as a whole is nerfed, that is an assumption that you came up with. I can't think of this as more than just a nerf because it is a nerf, its not a buff in any way is it? No, there's no aspect of the radial disarm that is becoming more useful as a result.  His other skills are mediocre and as a result, make the Warframe less attractive, the reason I didn't bring up his other skills is because those aren't the topic at hand, Radial Blind is. You seem to be strafing away from the point of the argument which is that this ability whether accidental release or not is a nerf and a major one at that. 

 

He might be a better warframe in terms of his other abilities but don't know what buffs are going to be given and as such we can only speculate and talk about what we have now. Sounds reasonable to me. 

 

I didn't explain anything about them because there wasn't any need to explain, they made huge mistakes which impact the majority of their community/fanbase and my point was that even though they are important people with experience and knowledge they are making mistakes. The problem with your example which I didn't focus on it too much because I didn't see the point you were making with it is that while the intentions that that person has may be good, it impacts the majority and the majority doesn't like it. If the majority doesn't like it then its a bad idea. You could say that people that go to War have good intentions but in the eyes of most people they are seen as nothing more than puppets with guns and would kill innocent civilians if ordered to. Please don't talk about Obama as if he's not in control here, I don't want to stray off topic more than I already am with this but he promised everyone in the elections that he would end wars and bring peace, so far its been the opposite and continues to send American troops towards a futile cause, the president has done nothing but carry on in the steps of Bush and is no different than he is. He's seen spending more time playing golf than he is in the white house and that shows that he's not prepared to deal with the position he's in.

 

Back to the topic, the fact remains that Radial Blind is nerfed to all hell and will most likely remain that way. His other abilities need a major buff in order to make it balanced. Right now, he's not worth using so due to a mistake by the devs he is ruined atm. 

[Slamyourjam]

In the end it's their game, and they're professional game developers.

 

I'm not going to pretend I understand why they do things, or why the do them in the order they do, but considering their track record and results I'm assuming they know what they're doing.

 

Why do people continue to bring the point that its their game and they're professionals. They made an actively supporting online game. As such they knew the risks that come with that, if the majority of people disagree with the changes done to the game then you're doing something wrong and if you want them to continue funding you should listen to them because its for the best of your company.

[Slamyourjam]

Nothing official, but it was heavily implied in one of Rebecca's post on the matter. I think the poll very well confirms everything is being touched on though. Threads locked, can't quote, providing link.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/308245-stealth-balance-changes-are-not-appreciated/page-2#entry3493149

"there is a hotfix coming to change Excal (biggest fire) then we will chase down rest of info as Meg mentioned earlier." 

Change, not nerf, biggest fire implying larger scale. And the rest of the info would imply that there is more being  changed than we know as well. 

 

 

You are the one who attacked someone because you assumed he had a lack of knowledge and experience without knowing so.

Thus I gave you my credentials, it was not an attack, nor bragging.

Pick one. You can not blame me for 'bragging' when you would have dismissed me without those merits same as you did archer. 

Nor do I hold any affiliation to DE, nor ever claimed to. I merely asserted that my ideas were valued, and thus my opinion is one considered of a certain level of quality. You are the one who would not accept someones opinion because it wasn't experienced enough in your eyes, so I gave you my experience. 

 

That last sentence, what gives you credibility over anyone else here? Because of your close relation to the developers? No. I think you're being a bigot if you believe your ideas are more valued than anyone else's opinions here. Let's be real and honest here.

[LukeAura]

That last sentence, what gives you credibility over anyone else here? Because of your close relation to the developers? No. I think you're being a bigot if you believe your ideas are more valued than anyone else's opinions here. Let's be real and honest here.

I have never said any elses ideas here are not valued, and I have taken the time time and again to explain my points instead of just saying I'm better, you're wrong. And if this is not the case and you would like to quote where exactly I have said so without explanation I will apologize, I am aware I can be a jerk sometimes, I even admit so on my profile. 

I have only asserted that mine are without a doubt valued, and experienced, therefore can not be dismissed as Audabon seemed quite insistent on doing so to archer. 

 

 

Why do people continue to bring the point that its their game and they're professionals. They made an actively supporting online game. As such they knew the risks that come with that, if the majority of people disagree with the changes done to the game then you're doing something wrong and if you want them to continue funding you should listen to them because its for the best of your company.

Long term planning.

Building the game around massive CCs that kill the engaging quality of content will lead to more players giving up on the game. It might upset the community in the short term, but over time those people would leave faster any ways because they aren't being engaged by the content because they can trivialize it. 

 

 

What is there to look beyond of? The ability is nerfed, that's my point I never once stated the warframe as a whole is nerfed, that is an assumption that you came up with. I can't think of this as more than just a nerf because it is a nerf, its not a buff in any way is it? No, there's no aspect of the radial disarm that is becoming more useful as a result.  His other skills are mediocre and as a result, make the Warframe less attractive, the reason I didn't bring up his other skills is because those aren't the topic at hand, Radial Blind is. You seem to be strafing away from the point of the argument which is that this ability whether accidental release or not is a nerf and a major one at that. 

 

Back to the topic, the fact remains that Radial Blind is nerfed to all hell and will most likely remain that way. His other abilities need a major buff in order to make it balanced. Right now, he's not worth using so due to a mistake by the devs he is ruined atm. 

The frame as a whole is being buffed, and the nerf is bringing that one ability in to balance, not hell. It's not being nerfed to uselessness, that is not the intention and will never be DEs intention on any frame. That would simply be stupid and a mistake no one could make. 

It will still likely be a valued and usable skill. If it becomes useless, that can be fixed, just like his other abilities are being fixed. I suppose you are correct that this is skirting the issue, but the issue is only a matter of perspective. I am not looking at Radial Blind as a singular skill, but as a piece of Excalibur's value. And I am aware that overall, he is being brought up.

A nerf to one skill that is supposed to leave its relative value in the range of balanced is of little consequence, especially compared to the whole of the frame's value being brought up to par. 

Nerfs are entirely necessary for game balance. As are buffs and tweaks.  

They undid the mistake until all his changes are ready, he is not ruined at all. He is exactly as he was before by the way. 

Edited September 14, 2014 by LukeAura

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

 if the majority of people disagree with the changes done to the game then you're doing something wrong

False. The majority of people will almost always complain about having their crutches taken away, EVEN IF it is better for the game. Pandering to casuals is the quickest way to kill a franchise, BTW.

 

 

That doesn't mean every change is good either.  You have to look at the merit of each change on its own merits, not who or how many support it.

[Slamyourjam]

False. The majority of people will almost always complain about having their crutches taken away, EVEN IF it is better for the game. Pandering to casuals is the quickest way to kill a franchise, BTW.

 

 

That doesn't mean every change is good either.  You have to look at the merit of each change on its own merits, not who or how many support it.

 

Why is Call of Duty not Dead? Why is Fifa not dead? Why is World of Warcraft not Dead? Guild Wars 2? I could go on. Its better to receive some sort of feedback than no feedback at all.