Boltor Prime: Killing The Game?

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

 It doesn't make sense to make a portion of the community mad because they like having the boltor prime at early levels just so you can satisfy the other half of the community.

Yes it does.

 

Trinity

Ash

Rhino

Excalibur

Nova

Explosive Ammo

The list goes on...

 

All nerfed massively to appease a larger group (and sometimes a smaller one). Balance is more important than preference. Getting a gun that reks S#&$ better than 75%+ of the other base level guns as your second primary isn't balanced.

 

Let's get one thing straight for the sake of argument:

A "New Player" must be MR2 to trade. That's hardly "right after you complete the tutorial." A new player also needs 10 orokin cells, which IIRC, is Saturn, or 100plat on the market.

Orokin Cells can be attained while they have their high level friend carry them in void missions to attain the gun at MR0.

Edited September 23, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[Deccode]

 

Yes it does.

 

Trinity

Ash

Rhino

Excalibur

Nova

Explosive Ammo

The list goes on...

 

All nerfed massively to appease a larger group (and sometimes a smaller one). Balance is more important than preference. Getting a gun that reks S#&$ more than 90%+ of the other guns as your second primary isn't balanced.

Oh wait, I'm sure you you were saying "I DID NOT SAY TO NERF THE BOLTOR PRIME OR THAT IT IS UNBALANCED". Now you are comparing it with stuff that were overpowered. I guess you are right, because you can compare stuff freely, but I cannot name p2w games since warframe is not one of them. Btw welcome back.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2014 by Deccode

[Archistopheles]

Boltor Prime's MR requirement is 2. If you want a real world example, people in Everquest 1, and Dark Age of Camelot used to make things called "Twinks." Twinks were low level characters with gear vastly superior to their character level.

Also, for clarity, I am not in favor of power creep. My suggestion from the very beginning was to nerf the Boltor Prime. That would nullify everyone's argument here.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Archistopheles

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

 

 

Oh wait, I'm sure you you were saying "I DID NOT SAY TO NERF THE BOLTOR PRIME OR THAT IT IS UNBALANCED". Now you are comparing it with stuff that were overpowered. I guess you are right, because you can compare stuff freely, but I cannot name p2w games since warframe is not one of them. Btw welcome back.

 

 

 

You're so right. Not sure why I let myself be roped back in.

G'bye.

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

Boltor Prime's MR requirement is 2. If you want a real world example, people in Everquest 1, and Dark Age of Camelot used to make things called "Twinks." Twinks were low level characters with gear vastly superior to their character level.

Also, for clarity, I am not in favor of power creep. My suggestion from the very beginning was to nerf the Boltor Prime. That would nullify everyone's argument here.

I apologize. I heard from a one of the higher ups in my clan (whom I thought was a reliable source, thus never second guessed him) that Boltor Prime's MR requirement was 0 and I just checked the Wiki to see that it is instead MR2. 

 

My apologies for spreading misinformation to all of you, but I stand by my stance that it should be raised along with the other prime weapons.

 

Just came to say that, G'bye again.

Edited September 23, 2014 by (PS4)KestralSylver

[Mokkania]

Damage to the game is damage, whether they outright leave or not it will still hurt their enjoyment of the game. 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, could you explain?

[MirageKnight]

Also, for clarity, I am not in favor of power creep. My suggestion from the very beginning was to nerf the Boltor Prime. That would nullify everyone's argument here.

 

Yes we know what your suggestion was, but would it really nullify everyone's arguments here? What makes you so sure of that? You don't think a nerf would bring out new complaints? Let me give you an example.

 

Given the spongyness of high level enemies, powerful weapons like the Boltor Prime are almost a necessity for bringing said units down. You seem to be championing for a major nerf to the Boltor Prime; A nerf that would potentially restrict the options that people have with regard to dealing with high level enemies and lead to players complaining about that. 

 

You seem to be so fixated on nerfing the gun's stats...that you're overlooking other solutions to addressing the issue of disparity between the Boltor Prime and other Prime primary weapons, namely buffing those weapons to more acceptable levels and thus making them more viable alternatives to the Boltor Prime.

 

Getting tired of seeing this gun used by almost everyone? I see two things that can help achieve that that have been discussed at length here. Raise MR to 8+ and thus make players earn the privilege of using it - and buff other Primes to make them more viable alternatives.

 

If the Boltor Prime is still OP after trying these things, THEN see about nerfing the Boltor Prime.

 

What's so hard and bad about doing that?

Edited September 23, 2014 by MirageKnight

[Archistopheles]

Yes we know what your suggestion was, but would it really nullify everyone's arguments here? What makes you so sure of that? You don't think a nerf would bring out new complaints?

Hang on. That statement was in regards to the Mastery Rank Yes/No argument. If you nerf it to Soma or Braton Prime level, nobody would worry about the mastery rank. That's all I was trying to imply.

[MirageKnight]

Oh I see. I got the impression that you were referring to addressing power creep via making changes to the Boltor's "power" as it were due to your use of the term "nerf".

 

That being said, I'd agree with you, given that most people here seem to favor an MR that's considerably higher than it is currently. I wouldn't call that a nerf to the Boltor, but rather a restriction to access and availability - but that's me. That threw me off a bit, so my apologies for the misunderstanding.

Edited September 23, 2014 by MirageKnight

[PlayGooYa]

I hate the travel speed on Boltor Prime and usually make up the dps compared by either abusing Amprex or actually aiming hitscan weapons over a distance and doing it better than people who are just spraying mindlessly, Boltor Primes included.

 

That said, has anybody looked at the numbers on this thing?

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Boltor_prime/t_30_22223030_131-7-5-132-2-5-133-6-5-137-0-10-138-5-5-141-4-5-149-3-5-150-1-10_137-7-150-8-132-8-149-5-141-6-138-11-133-6-131-9/en/2-0-44/25048/0

 

~30k+ dps? 2k damage a shot? Innate "punchthrough" for free? Four elemental slots?

And as far as I'm concerned, Heavy Caliber has no drawbacks on this weapon. Accuracy doesn't matter because, really, when was the last time you actually saw anybody do anything but spray this thing, and usually at pointblank at that? (And even then it's still only just less accurate than Latron series in terms of the raw accuracy stat after max Heavy Cal. So you'll hit static targets at a distance just fine.)

This weapon was designed to forgive spray-and-pray. It's the best and simplest reason for why I despise this gun.

It encourages scrublords to run in front of teammates, ignoring clean lines of fire and encourages you to pretty much never learn to aim ever.

 

Oh you can outdamage Boltor Prime players with raw skill, but it really doesn't take much effort on their part to match you, if the numbers are anything to go by.

Edited September 24, 2014 by PlayGooYa

[MirageKnight]

You do realize that build uses 4 Forma to give the 4 extra polarities needed for the heftier mods, right? That entails re-leveling the Boltor Prime 4 times and getting 4 Forma. So a player has to do a bit of work and spend a bit of time to get the Boltor Prime to be that powerful.

 

On that note, just about any weapon with 6 polarity slots is going to kick &#! with the right mods. Just a reminder.

 

This weapon was designed to forgive spray-and-pray. It's the best and simplest reason for why I despise this gun.

It encourages scrublords to run in front of teammates, ignoring clean lines of fire and encourages you to pretty much never learn to aim ever.

 

 

There's quite a bit of vitriol in that post mate. Take some deep breathes and try to remember that this is just a game.

 

If other players can't learn how to aim thanks to this gun as you're arguing, then isn't that really their problem and not yours? I could understand this being a major issue and a legitimate concern if this game had a "friendly fire" mechanic, but seeing as it doesn't, the worse thing that happens is they don't hit their targets as much as say a more skilled player. Correspondingly, they get less kills and earn XP more slowly than someone that employs a bit more patience and skill with the same weapon and using the same mods.

[Deccode]

If other players can't learn how to aim thanks to this gun as you're arguing, then isn't that really their problem and not yours?

Thank you.

[MirageKnight]

You're quite welcome.

[PlayGooYa]

On that note, just about any weapon with 6 polarity slots is going to kick @$$ with the right mods. Just a reminder.

 

That's an untrue copout. It's used too often in discussions around here.

Edited September 24, 2014 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII
Removed Inflammatory Text

[Brimir]

If Soma didn't "kill the game" neither will Boltor Prime, I can guarantee it.

[Rakshal]

If Soma didn't "kill the game" neither will Boltor Prime, I can guarantee it.

You could only get the Soma at master rank 6, the Boltor Prime has no mastery requirement.

[Brimir]

You could only get the Soma at master rank 6, the Boltor Prime has no mastery requirement.

 

It has a hefty RNG requirement.

[MirageKnight]

The Boltor Prime does have a fairly hefty RNG requirement...the problem is that said requirement can be readily circumvented via trading.

[_Fracture8]

While some may argue that the cells needed to construct it takes a time as well, in reality it doesn't. Anyone with a friend could just taxi them to Ruk and carry them. Not to mention that Ruk scales with Conclave, so it won't be too difficult for newer players.

 

EDIT: Also since new players would roughly be at MR2 by the time they hit Saturn, most can just actively farm solo regardless

Edited September 25, 2014 by KilelrDrone492

[Azawarau]

Yes we know what your suggestion was, but would it really nullify everyone's arguments here? What makes you so sure of that? You don't think a nerf would bring out new complaints? Let me give you an example.

 

Given the spongyness of high level enemies, powerful weapons like the Boltor Prime are almost a necessity for bringing said units down. You seem to be championing for a major nerf to the Boltor Prime; A nerf that would potentially restrict the options that people have with regard to dealing with high level enemies and lead to players complaining about that. 

 

You seem to be so fixated on nerfing the gun's stats...that you're overlooking other solutions to addressing the issue of disparity between the Boltor Prime and other Prime primary weapons, namely buffing those weapons to more acceptable levels and thus making them more viable alternatives to the Boltor Prime.

 

Getting tired of seeing this gun used by almost everyone? I see two things that can help achieve that that have been discussed at length here. Raise MR to 8+ and thus make players earn the privilege of using it - and buff other Primes to make them more viable alternatives.

 

If the Boltor Prime is still OP after trying these things, THEN see about nerfing the Boltor Prime.

 

What's so hard and bad about doing that?

First off the two bolded statements contradict eachother

 

Second, buffing other weapons wont fix the power gap between the boltor and a few buffed weapons and everything else

 

Third, the situation you described with a necessity for high lvl enemies is absolutely untrue and doesnt justify its high power and low MR

Edited September 25, 2014 by Azawarau

[MirageKnight]

Um....haven't 

 

First off the two bolded statements contradict eachother

 

Second, buffing other weapons wont fix the power gap between the boltor and a few buffed weapons and everything else

 

Third, the situation you described with a necessity for high lvl enemies is absolutely untrue and doesnt justify its high power and low MR

 

 

1. Not really. If you nerf a weapon too much, it has the potential to become nonviable for some players as an option for taking down high level content.

 

3. Ummm...I've been arguing in favor of a considerably higher MR to justify the Boltor Prime's almost the entire time...

[OnlinePhenome]

So true! I saw MR 4 and 5 people farming for BP Receiver in ODD. Pretty sad, honestly... Boltor P needs a MR requirement of at least 8 IMO.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Irregardless_Existence

[jjpdn]

I never really liked the BP. It's sitting in my inventory, forgotten, when guns like Torid and Opticor have 2-4 formas on them.

 

Is it really that good?

Edited December 27, 2014 by jjpdn

[-Onyx-AquaDragon42]

if you remove boltor prime, some other weapon will take its place.

we are not asking for the gun to be removed, just harder to obtain.  The problem is that it is insanely cheap to  buy with Plat and available to very low MR players so once you have it why would you use any other weapon?  This is at MR 2, I would say MR 8-9 would be more appropriate.  It would also give players an incentive to get to MR 8 other than just the Dragon Nakata.

[Filas312]

I have a friend (MR18 by now) and he's gotten himself out of playing exclusively Boltor Prime and now he says that he'll get the F*** bored out of his mind if he was to do it yet again. It seems that there really is a reason to play other guns, but we need more interesting mechanics.