Boltor Prime: Killing The Game?

[kuri99]

The easy fix is to increase the mastery rank. Make it 6 to be on even footing with the Soma (which In my experience is equal to my own boltor prime).

 

That said, this new generation of gamers confounds me. I often hear the "things are to easy" argument and my counter to that is always "dont use the best stuff and it'll give you more challenge". They would rather be bored then challenge themselves though. I just dont get it.

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

The Boltor Prime was always too good.

 

The problem, now, is that its peers - Braton Prime, Burston Prime, and to a lesser extent Latron Prime - do not keep up well with the pace it sets.

 

 

I think they also need some innate effects to match Boltor Prime's skewering effect.  Braton Prime should have some light Punch-Through, Burston Prime should have innate +10%-30% Multi-Shot.

[genclaymore]

They may in up nerfing it sooner or later. But they really need to make the game modes more different some how, instead of you either standing at a pod or control panel or running around. But it does get tiring doing the same thing over and over again, even tho they are adding new ways to do it.  When your mastery 13 you wonder why you are even doing this for the 100+th time.

 

Edited September 20, 2014 by genclaymore

[HAYABU5A]

if u think boltor prime is powerful imagine akbolto prime

compare the dps of max boltor and akbolto and then scale boltor to boltor prime and apply the same scale to akbolto prime from stock akbolto then it would be the most powerful weapon in the game easily

 

btw arnt we due bolto prime ?? its one of the original classic weapons

[Filas312]

The easy fix is to increase the mastery rank. Make it 6 to be on even footing with the Soma (which In my experience is equal to my own boltor prime).

 

That said, this new generation of gamers confounds me. I often hear the "things are to easy" argument and my counter to that is always "dont use the best stuff and it'll give you more challenge". They would rather be bored then challenge themselves though. I just dont get it.

It is not even a bandaid to challenge yourself with the bad design. It should NOT be up to player to have the challenge or not, else you have what we have all over Warframe right now: lack of consistency.

[pisc3s1203]

raising it to MR 8 or 9 is good, because player need to play more to use it, not the platinium power :D

[castem]

Please fix this DE. Just change the MR requirement to 7 or something higher. One of the strongest weapons in the game should not be made available so early and so cheap.

 

^I could not agree with this statement more.

[Cookedtoast]

Prime gear is essentially mastery exempt. Raising the mastery requirement isn't a solution in this case.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Paris_Prime 

Mastery rank 4. 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Boar_Prime

Mastery rank 2.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Bo_Prime

Mastery rank 5.

They need to just add a mastery to the boltor prime. I feel like M8~9 would be fine.

[Feallike]

AK Bronco Prime is technicly better then Boltor P

 

So is Angstrum....... :/

 

Also my Quanta technicly will do more damage with better ammo ecomony then my 4 forma BP.... 

 

 

I do agree that the weapon needs a change, or a nerf, or removed entirely because its stupid boring, and it ruins the game for some people.

 

Though its not the best weapon in the game by any stretch of the imagination.

 

 

 

There a few stupid weapons in this game that need changes: BoltorP, Soma, Dnikana, Brakk are some of them.

 

But the difference is: Dnikana is hard to get and requires high MR rank, Brakk is also extremely hard to get....

 

 

Even soma ballancing point is the MR rank, BoltorP is just that its all + no -, other then being hard to snipe with the weapon is equivalently what MK1Braton would be if it was GOOD.

 

If MK1 Braton was better then every weapon in the market we would get the same response as BoltorP, its just BoltorP requires plat and a little knowledge. :/

Edited September 20, 2014 by Feallike

[Dasmir]

The Boltor Prime was always too good.

 

The problem, now, is that its peers - Braton Prime, Burston Prime, and to a lesser extent Latron Prime - do not keep up well with the pace it sets.

 

 

I think they also need some innate effects to match Boltor Prime's skewering effect.  Braton Prime should have some light Punch-Through, Burston Prime should have innate +10%-30% Multi-Shot.

 

Nope all those are fine but braton, Boltor prime is pure power creep theres no reason a weapon should have 500 unmoded dps when most weapon just have 200-300.

[Filas312]

AK Bronco Prime is technicly better then Boltor P

 

So is Angstrum....... :/

 

Also my Quanta technicly will do more damage with better ammo ecomony then my 4 forma BP.... 

 

 

I do agree that the weapon needs a change, or a nerf, or removed entirely because its stupid boring, and it ruins the game for some people.

 

Though its not the best weapon in the game by any stretch of the imagination.

 

 

 

There a few stupid weapons in this game that need changes: BoltorP, Soma, Dnikana, Brakk are some of them.

 

But the difference is: Dnikana is hard to get and requires high MR rank, Brakk is also extremely hard to get....

 

 

Even soma ballancing point is the MR rank, BoltorP is just that its all + no -, other then being hard to snipe with the weapon is equivalently what MK1Braton would be if it was GOOD.

 

If MK1 Braton was better then every weapon in the market we would get the same response as BoltorP, its just BoltorP requires plat and a little knowledge. :/

I played with the builder a bit and you can make the highest sustained DPS build on Boltor Prime, something around 30k sustain. This is almost 10k over all the other weapons.

[kuri99]

It is not even a bandaid to challenge yourself with the bad design. It should NOT be up to player to have the challenge or not, else you have what we have all over Warframe right now: lack of consistency.

I whole heartedly disagree. Giving the players the ability to create their own challenges within the confines of the game adds more variety to the game. As I mentioned before entire sub-communities have formed around this style of interactivity. Speed runners being a good example. There are even sub-communities for varied styles of play within warframe such as stealth focused clans.

 

I understand and even agree that there should be options to allow players to take the best gear and still provide challenge (funnily the option that provides that, nightmare mods, dont get run by many of those people). However to say that limiting your mods/weapons isnt a viable way of creating challenge simply isnt true.

[LukeAura]

I whole heartedly disagree. Giving the players the ability to create their own challenges within the confines of the game adds more variety to the game. As I mentioned before entire sub-communities have formed around this style of interactivity. Speed runners being a good example. There are even sub-communities for varied styles of play within warframe such as stealth focused clans.

But how many of those games are so loose with their balance and structure as Warframe? Having more structure does not mean less ways for players to challenge themselves.  

Player decided limitations really only work because the devs have a tightly regulated upper bound on easyness in their game. They set a reference point that is still fun and enjoyable, that appropriately regulates progression. It is essentially a guiding point, this is how hard the game should be. When it's set to in Warframe's case, trivial, it ruins that sense. Progression becomes entirely about efficiency, not overcoming the obstacles. If anything more regulation would enhance the game for players seeking to create their own challenges.  

[kuri99]

But how many of those games are so loose with their balance and structure as Warframe? Having more structure does not mean less ways for players to challenge themselves.  

Player decided limitations really only work because the devs have a tightly regulated upper bound on easyness in their game. They set a reference point that is still fun and enjoyable, that appropriately regulates progression. It is essentially a guiding point, this is how hard the game should be. When it's set to in Warframe's case, trivial, it ruins that sense. Progression becomes entirely about efficiency, not overcoming the obstacles. If anything more regulation would enhance the game for players seeking to create their own challenges.  

Can you give some specific examples of what regulations would add to the freedom, challenge, and variety to the game?

[Rollerlane]

No need for more powercreep please. Unless they make missions that START with lvl70 we dont need anything stronger than BoltorP

i meant more viable weapons, not power creep. and its not power creep if its just as good the boltorP

[Filas312]

I whole heartedly disagree. Giving the players the ability to create their own challenges within the confines of the game adds more variety to the game. As I mentioned before entire sub-communities have formed around this style of interactivity. Speed runners being a good example. There are even sub-communities for varied styles of play within warframe such as stealth focused clans.

 

I understand and even agree that there should be options to allow players to take the best gear and still provide challenge (funnily the option that provides that, nightmare mods, dont get run by many of those people). However to say that limiting your mods/weapons isnt a viable way of creating challenge simply isnt true.

You are missing the point here. I don't have anything against getting those nerfs like in the current event.

What I don't understand is how you protect DE by telling players that devs can't just make enough challenge for them and to go F*** themselves and just find something to challenge themselves. That way we can just abandon WF and start doing anything else, giving ourselves some challenge.

[LukeAura]

Can you give some specific examples of what regulations would add to the freedom, challenge, and variety to the game?

How about not letting MR2 players have access to the most powerful rifle in the game for 5 bucks? When every weapon they can have feels about as powerful as another they have more enjoyable choices, more challenge as those weapons are balanced for the content they'll be facing. It is their choice to not choose the Boltor Prime, but in a 'game about progression' as Steve put it, you want to get what works best for you at your stage in the game in order to progress further. And because the Boltor Prime is the most powerful gun it works best for practically anyone at any stage, it is the right choice as far as earning rewards is concerned, but for variety, and challenge, it is wrong. Better ability to progress now flies directly against fun and challenge.

Removing the BoltorP while not technically adding anything, makes what is there seem better because it can not be compared to the Boltor Prime. 

And what if Affinity and mods and resources were actually scaled with levels? Higher levels offer more/rarer resources and better/rarer mods more often. More challenge as player will seek to push themselves for better odds. More freedom as the higher levels are now a choice to low levels, Faster Dice rolls or Better odds. And more variety as a natural follower of increased challenge and freedom. 

 

Edited September 20, 2014 by LukeAura

[kuri99]

You are missing the point here. I don't have anything against getting those nerfs like in the current event.

What I don't understand is how you protect DE by telling players that devs can't just make enough challenge for them and to go F*** themselves and just find something to challenge themselves. That way we can just abandon WF and start doing anything else, giving ourselves some challenge.

Could you show me where I said DE shouldnt put more challenging content in the game? Can you also show me where I said the players can go "F*** themselves"? I dont think I said that. Also can you talk to me in a calm and reasonable manner? You know like a human being usually converses with another human being?

 

What I said was, right now in the current state of the game the players can give themselves further challenge by not using the best gear, weapons, mod setups, etc.

[kuri99]

How about not letting MR2 players have access to the most powerful rifle in the game for 5 bucks? When every weapon they can have feels about as powerful as another they have more enjoyable choices, more challenge as those weapons are balanced for the content they'll be facing. It is their choice to not choose the Boltor Prime, but in a 'game about progression' as Steve put it, you want to get what works best for you at your stage in the game in order to progress further. And because the Boltor Prime is the most powerful gun it works best for practically anyone at any stage, it is the right choice as far as earning rewards is concerned, but for variety, and challenge, it is wrong. Better ability to progress now flies directly against fun and challenge.

Removing the BoltorP while not technically adding anything, makes what is there seem better because it can not be compared to the Boltor Prime. 

And what if Affinity and mods and resources were actually scaled with levels? Higher levels offer more/rarer resources and better/rarer mods more often. More challenge as player will seek to push themselves for better odds. More freedom as the higher levels are now a choice to low levels, Faster Dice rolls or Better odds. And more variety as a natural follower of increased challenge and freedom. 

 

I dont understand. Why can there not be choice as well? Why can one not choose to have as you put it "fun and challenge" or "progression". For that matter why does "fun and challenge" and "progression" need to be segregated. Can progression not be fun and challenging? I said this before, many people within this new generation of gamers can choose to run without "the best stuff" (I use that term with a mountain of salt) or they can choose to be bored. More often then not the choice they make is boredom. Its a mentality that I personally dont understand but its not me making the choice either. The old saying "you can lead a horse to water but I can make him drink" seems to apply here

 

I understand that its an old school idea but its just an option. Each player has a choice of whether they want to use it or not. To take another game that is probably best known for its challenge Dark souls allows that same choice in difficulty to a player. Its just not a slider or setting per say. You can make the game easier by upgrading equipment and leveling your character. You can make the game incredibly easy by using the iron flesh spell. You can make the game harder by choosing not to use upgrading systems at all. I once did a level 1 no upgrades completion and it was hard but you know what else it was? Invigorating. It was invigorating to know that I accomplished what, at the time, a lot of people said couldnt be done. I felt great at having completed that goal even if it was just a video game

 

I dont think that limiting a players choices (as you said putting boltor prime at MR 5+ which i actually support) is going to increase the variety and freedom of the game. Whats needed is buffs in various weapons/frames (or alternatively vandal/wraith/prime variants to put them on par) but most of all a change in mentality will give you more fun and challenge until DE makes more challenging content.

 

There is another discussion to be had about challenge though. The fact that difficulty is subjective. What is challenging to me may not be to you, or visa versa. Then theres also a point where challenge can become tedious through overscaling. At that point only AI improvement can really challenge  a player. Dark souls again is a good example of that. Ive got a character that Ive never upgraded and fights bare handed on new game+...I think its 9. Nothing can touch me but it takes so long to kill anything that its become tedious to play that character. The same can be said of warframe. In a T4 survival after around 60 minutes the enemies are often one shotting you and become so bullet spongey that continuing feels more tedious then rewarding to me. Your mileage may vary.

 

Affinity/mod scaling with enemy level is a great idea though. More risk = more reward. Im ok with those kinds of systems.

[Filas312]

Could you show me where I said DE shouldnt put more challenging content in the game? Can you also show me where I said the players can go "F*** themselves"? I dont think I said that. Also can you talk to me in a calm and reasonable manner? You know like a human being usually converses with another human being?

 

What I said was, right now in the current state of the game the players can give themselves further challenge by not using the best gear, weapons, mod setups, etc.

I am pretty calm, believe me, I wouldn't lose my mind over some confo over the internet.

 

The point is that saying that players can give themselves challenges is just so obvious that it could be considered the same as telling people that they're gonna die... someday. The point is that you can't really answer complaints to the game being too easy due to the mechanics inside with 'give yourself a challenge'. You are just accepting the fact that DE failed badly at providing challenging content. And you shouldn't really accept that, should you?

[Dasmir]

i meant more viable weapons, not power creep. and its not power creep if its just as good the boltorP

 

Boltor Prime IS power creep...

[MirageKnight]

How IS the Boltor Prime power creep then? 

[Archistopheles]

How IS the Boltor Prime power creep then? 

Because it's stronger than the automatic rifles made before it. I thought that was a given...

[Dasmir]

How IS the Boltor Prime power creep then? 

 

Becouse is has over 300 more innate dps than any weapon in game ?

[Deccode]

Becouse is has over 300 more innate dps than any weapon in game ?

Ofc it does. Do you fart random numbers as well into the internet?

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Weapon_Comparison