Possible Fix For Valkyr's Hysteria?

[akira_him]

You don't need a fix for her

you will have penalty for not killing surrounding enemies that attacked you

Which is quite often in high level missions

[StinkyPygmy]

You don't need a fix for her

you will have penalty for not killing surrounding enemies that attacked you

Which is quite often in high level mission

The dmg you take is negligible at best. Even in high level missions its a non issue as most highlighted targets are still dead if you know what you are doing. Tell that to all the solo vals spamming hysteria in T4S all the way into oblivion.

[akira_him]

The dmg you take is negligible at best. Even in high level missions its a non issue as most highlighted targets are still dead if you know what you are doing. Tell that to all the solo vals spamming hysteria in T4S all the way into oblivion.

all I can say is that "play with fiends that won't be solo vals", 

if it should be fix, dev should increase the percentage of damage received when there is any enemy remained (currently 7.5% of damage received while activating)

there is always a need for invincibility for higher level games to provide some room for mistakes if the devs not gonna change how survival mission reward works

 

the invincible trinity was fixed not because of her invincibility, she was supposed to be a supporter, not an attacker or tank

but ppl spam blessing and link, making her the best attacker(and worst) at the time

 

valkyr is a tank, I see no problem for invincibility because it fits her role, I won't agree such fix if the reward method doesn't change

[StinkyPygmy]

all I can say is that "play with fiends that won't be solo vals", 

if it should be fix, dev should increase the percentage of damage received when there is any enemy remained (currently 7.5% of damage received while activating)

there is always a need for invincibility for higher level games to provide some room for mistakes if the devs not gonna change how survival mission reward works

 

the invincible trinity was fixed not because of her invincibility, she was supposed to be a supporter, not an attacker or tank

but ppl spam blessing and link, making her the best attacker(and worst) at the time

 

valkyr is a tank, I see no problem for invincibility because it fits her role, I won't agree such fix if the reward method doesn't change

Read through my older points on the thread as too why invulnerability for more then a few seconds is bad and how hysteria can be made fun and engaging rather then a press 4 and walk away button.

 

On the topic if trin: it very much was removed because of the invulnerability. Because it made an entire squad unkillable and could be exploited. The trin tank issue was only a symptom of the underlying problem.

Edited October 15, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[kill3r_furby]

I agree nerf her invincibility! All the frames with invincibility were nerfed. She should not be allowed to keep this mechanic

 

"Burn all the witches! Leave none alive!"

 

"But how will we know when they're all dead?"

 

"The only way to be sure it to burn the world to the ground!"

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

question is how long can hysteria be effective , granted i dont use the best melee for her ultimate , a dragon nikana and she runs out of steam around 50 mins T4 survival , there after it just takes to long to kill, even with finisher attacks, i know quite a few frames with more dps than valkyr in hysteria, which imo invunreability doesnt make up for dps, which will keep u in the game for longer.

[WhiteCr0w]

Just wanted to mention I've read all of your posts in this thread, and I fully agree. You've articulated your points well enough and provided a solid basis for them, regardless of their content. Bravo sir.

 

I'm very aware the game has options and I fully explore that fact. Except in some cases, like Hysteria, its a case of false choice. 

 

I totally understand where you're coming from, and I agree that Hysteria could be so much more, but these people in this thread have no imagination. They can't see beyond the sparkly, shimmery toy that's already been handed to them. There just couldn't possibly be something better. One button for instant-gratification, no matter how mindless and unengaging it is.

[StinkyPygmy]

Just wanted to mention I've read all of your posts in this thread, and I fully agree. You've articulated your points well enough and provided a solid basis for them, regardless of their content. Bravo sir.

 

 

I totally understand where you're coming from, and I agree that Hysteria could be so much more, but these people in this thread have no imagination. They can't see beyond the sparkly, shimmery toy that's already been handed to them. There just couldn't possibly be something better. One button for instant-gratification, no matter how mindless and unengaging it is.

Mucho Gracias.

I think thats the key thing many people against the current hysteria want. They don't just want Invulnerability removed for the sake of removing it, they want the ability to be made more engaging and suitable mechanics wise. 

 

I'm glad someone understood the main point I was trying to make at least.

Edited October 15, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[HunRii]

I've always understood the point.  It's just irrelevant.  Just because you don't LIKE the current form of Hysteria doesn't mean it's in need of changing.  That's the truth of the people arguing against the current Hysteria.

 

Change for changes sake often ends up with people wanting to be back on the first patch of green grass they started with.  The grass is almost never greener on the other side of the fence.

 

Caveat emptor.  Great advice.  Some people here are trying to buy something new, and it won't end up well.  That's the reality of changes being made in this game, and in others, most of the time.

[StinkyPygmy]

I've always understood the point.  It's just irrelevant.  Just because you don't LIKE the current form of Hysteria doesn't mean it's in need of changing.  That's the truth of the people arguing against the current Hysteria.

 

Change for changes sake often ends up with people wanting to be back on the first patch of green grass they started with.  The grass is almost never greener on the other side of the fence.

 

Caveat emptor.  Great advice.  Some people here are trying to buy something new, and it won't end up well.  That's the reality of changes being made in this game, and in others, most of the time.

If you read anything that was written you would know no one is suggesting a change for the sake of change.

The same logic could also be reversed, just because you like current hysteria does not mean it is not a broken and boring mechanic in need of change.

See how that works?

Both sides are equally as valid as each other as you can use the same reasoning you did to argue for either of them.

 

The difference is I am providing reasons as to why I believe it should be changed beyond "because I said so".

I am at least trying to back up my reasoning, as I am aware it is opinion based. 

If my point is so irrelevant then you need to provide reasoning behind it. Otherwise it will just get dismissed as a general disagreement and as such not valid date your POV or facilitate meaningful discussion.

Edited October 15, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[akira_him]

if you are concerning the penalty is not enough for ppl spamming hysteria, how about this:

hysteria still makes the player invincible,but drains all of the remaining energy at the end, deals an AOE stun effect to enemies and valkyr will be not able to move for 1-2 seconds

===

edited

I still think it is not necessary to "fix" hysteria

it was interned and she was built for that invincibility.

 

edited again as I am not sure about that

Edited October 15, 2014 by akira_him

[FarStike]

There are a number of highly opinionated commenter's on this subject which keeps regularly repeating.

 

For the most part it appears to be forum posters who do not main Valkyr and are trying to be "helpful". Some clever mechanics come out of this.

 

Then there are the regular commenter's who are looking for a personalised warframe and can always be expected to find the thread and leave their comments, disregarding every counter-argument ever made in previous threads.

 

Those that main Valkyr rarely use her Hysteria ability except in extreme situations like reviving a team member in an endless mission. She is capable of dealing far more damage with War Cry and a decent melee than she is in Hysteria mode. Better to be able to save the team in that situation than lose your progress. Other frames have similar team-saving mechanics.

 

If you do not like the way a player is playing, then do not play with them again. Get a clan or get some friends to play with.

 

What you are arguing for is to make a change that will negatively impact the majority of people who actually do get enjoyment from it. (polls have been done on this before).

 

The reality, this is a PVE game, Hysteria is quirky but very cleverly balanced by more negative repercussions such as damage drop-off and lack of ranged skills on the frame.

 

In no ways can it be considered game-breaking. That is the domain of things like Host Migration returning you to Liset without Rewards or having to suddenly defend from wave 25 onwards on your own.

 

Let's call this what it actually is shall we?

[StinkyPygmy]

There are a number of highly opinionated commenter's on this subject which keeps regularly repeating.

 

For the most part it appears to be forum posters who do not main Valkyr and are trying to be "helpful". Some clever mechanics come out of this.

 

Then there are the regular commenter's who are looking for a personalised warframe and can always be expected to find the thread and leave their comments, disregarding every counter-argument ever made in previous threads.

 

Those that main Valkyr rarely use her Hysteria ability except in extreme situations like reviving a team member in an endless mission. She is capable of dealing far more damage with War Cry and a decent melee than she is in Hysteria mode. Better to be able to save the team in that situation than lose your progress. Other frames have similar team-saving mechanics.

 

If you do not like the way a player is playing, then do not play with them again. Get a clan or get some friends to play with.

 

What you are arguing for is to make a change that will negatively impact the majority of people who actually do get enjoyment from it. (polls have been done on this before).

 

The reality, this is a PVE game, Hysteria is quirky but very cleverly balanced by more negative repercussions such as damage drop-off and lack of ranged skills on the frame.

 

In no ways can it be considered game-breaking. That is the domain of things like Host Migration returning you to Liset without Rewards or having to suddenly defend from wave 25 onwards on your own.

 

Let's call this what it actually is shall we?

There are plenty of Val mains (ones that are well known on the forums as well) that are also not a fan of hysterias invulnerability.

 

"What you are arguing for is to make a change that will negatively impact the majority of people who actually do get enjoyment from it. (polls have been done on this before)."

Yes and there have been polls that also were in favor of changing it. A poll is a rough guide at best. 

You also need to consider the fact that most of the WF playerbase doesn't frequent the forums.

The fact is it will only negatively effect people that abuse the mechanic. If it is done right all it will do is introduce a little bit more balance.

It has nothing to do with creating a frame specifically to suit a few people.

 

"disregarding every counter-argument ever made in previous threads."

Kind of like what you are doing now by assuming my intent and disregarding points I have made. Many of which are yet to be addressed with a counter argument beyond "I don't agree"?

You're assuming I've even been aware of these previous threads where these counter-arguments you mentioned are.

If I haven't read those threads how can I possibly take these arguments into account?

 

I am very open to discussion about about the issue but its not possible if certain points aren't being addressed. For that very reason I have been forced to repeat my self a lot, because those points are being ignored.

The reason I've been following this thread closely is because Hysteria has been a very recent gripe of mine. I've been using Val a lot recently and as a result its been something I have been thinking about a lot. 

Theres no need for the passive aggressiveness.

[Azawarau]

if you are concerning the penalty is not enough for ppl spamming hysteria, how about this:

hysteria still makes the player invincible,but drains all of the remaining energy at the end, deals an AOE stun effect to enemies and valkyr will be not able to move for 1-2 seconds

===

edited

I still think it is not necessary to "fix" hysteria

it was interned and she was built for that invincibility.

 

edited again as I am not sure about that

Or make it into an ult worthy of being an ult

[Dseaver]

Or make it into an ult worthy of being an ult

Your fixiation on changing Hysteria is quite surreal.

 

I highly recommend you speak your mind at the upcoming DevStream.

[Ronyn]

30 second Invincibility is not good for deep gameplay.

[FarStike]

@StinkyPygmy - the post was not addressed to you. It was a general observation, no assumptions. Nor was there passive aggressiveness. If that is unclear kindly re-read the post.

 

My opinion - as a Valkyr main - differs from yours for reasons already stated. Not going to re-hash them to bump up post counts.

 

As Dseaver pointed out above, perhaps your next step is to raise it in devstream?

[StinkyPygmy]

Well tone and intent is sometimes hard to convey over the interwebz. 

It appeared to be a shot at me but I'll take you word for it.

I dun goofed.

[Azawarau]

Your fixiation on changing Hysteria is quite surreal.

 

I highly recommend you speak your mind at the upcoming DevStream.

Its better than the ones who are against it for personal bias

 

Clinging onto the last form of long time mobile invincibility in the game

[Ronyn]

I've always understood the point.  It's just irrelevant.  Just because you don't LIKE the current form of Hysteria doesn't mean it's in need of changing.  That's the truth of the people arguing against the current Hysteria.

 

Change for changes sake often ends up with people wanting to be back on the first patch of green grass they started with.  The grass is almost never greener on the other side of the fence.

 

Caveat emptor.  Great advice.  Some people here are trying to buy something new, and it won't end up well.  That's the reality of changes being made in this game, and in others, most of the time.

And likewise, just because you like it doesn't mean it should stay as it is. Keeping it the same for keeping it the same sake is also useless.

Such arguments go both ways so let's leave them alone. For the record-

My issues with Hysteria have nothing to do with wanting to try something new, change for the sake of change, or grass is greener cliches.

 

My problem with Hysteria is that while invulnerable there is no more concern for defensive measures (cover, evasion, blocking) which is HALF of the core combat model. Then Hysteria's damage output becomes outclassed late game meaning Valkyr is unable to really dish it out and becomes the ultimate rezing tool and distraction. Which, considering how simplistic that is done by just running around, I find that to be lackluster.

Additionally, that doesn't fit the theme of berzerker. 

 

Ideally, in Hysteria, Valkyr should be more resilient (tough with life drain) but not invulnerable while able to dish out serious damage....

This way she has to kill quickly to keep health coming in but can't so much ignore potential incoming damage but make good choices in how to reach enemies among the gunfire. You know...Combat depth.

I'm not looking to NERF hysteria so much as shift it's function from making Valkyr the "unkillable" to making her the "raging killer" she is described to be.

 

Is that just my take on it? Yep. But it's not baseless.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Ronyn

[Zyion]

My problem with Hysteria is that while invulnerable there is no more concern for defensive measures (cover, evasion, blocking) which is HALF of the core combat model. Then Hysteria's damage output becomes outclassed late game meaning Valkyr is unable to really dish it out and becomes the ultimate rezing tool and distraction. Which, considering how simplistic that is done by just running around, I find that to be lackluster.

Additionally, that doesn't fit the theme of berzerker. 

 

Wait a minute, doesn't the idea of having to take defensive measures kinda go against the theme of a berserker? The temporary invulnerability makes it so that she can go full offense and not have to worry about defense.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Zyion

[Ronyn]

Wait a minute, doesn't the idea of having to take defensive measures kinda go against the theme of a berserker? The temporary invulnerability makes it so that she can go full offense and not have to worry about defense.

Did you read my whole post? Like the part where I expressed how "defense" would factor in?

I'll re-post it...

 

Ideally, in Hysteria, Valkyr should be more resilient (tough with life drain) but not invulnerable while able to dish out serious damage....

This way she has to kill quickly to keep health coming in but can't so much ignore potential incoming damage but make good choices in how to reach enemies among the gunfire. You know...Combat depth.

I'm not looking to NERF hysteria so much as shift it's function from making Valkyr the "unkillable" to making her the "raging killer" she is described to be.

 

Just because she is a berzerker doesnt mean "take all hits on the chin because I cant be hurt"

It should be more about "As long as I kill quickly I can continue my rage"

Edited October 16, 2014 by Ronyn

[Zyion]

Did you read my whole post? Like the part where I expressed how "defense" would factor in?

I'll re-post it...

 

Oh I read it, I just think that invulnerability fits the berserker theme better as it makes it so that Valkyr can shift her entire focus on dealing as much damage as possible without having to worry about getting downed. The current damage model the probably needs a bit more rework though as it tends to become useless at higher levels.

[Ronyn]

Oh I read it, I just think that invulnerability fits the berserker theme better as it makes it so that Valkyr can shift her entire focus on dealing as much damage as possible without having to worry about getting downed.

In my opinion, you should not be able to ignore defensive concerns entirely.

Like if the ground is on fire you should have reason to run along the wall instead.

Not to say that fire should melt you right away while berzerking....

but when all defensive concerns become entirely gone it results in too bland of a combat model.

 

Berzerkers in general may not fear death, but they aren't immune to it. 

 

 

The current damage model the probably needs a bit more rework though as it tends to become useless at higher levels.

At which point she would be both invulnerable and a heavy hitter?

[Zyion]

At which point she would be both invulnerable and a heavy hitter?

 

No, just on par with maxed out melee combat.