"grineer Hitscan Fire Cant Be Dodged"

[Demon-King-Lamb]

Try this with a large amount of Grineer around. It's easy to dodge a small group of enemy fire. But when your taking fire from all directions is more difficult and is much different situation.

[DeadX65]

Funny that the more you move the less often you get hit

 

Sounds alot like evading to me

sounds like game mechanics to me, breaking LOS+low tier grineer. just like hit scan is game mechanics. funny thing, as they rank up? they fire more often and faster and the proc rate increases. i knew you were playing with low tier grineer just by the damage you were taking and the sporadic fire rate just by watching the vid.

 

all their stats rank up as they do, not just damage, armor and hp, which is what most tend to focus on.

 

if you think it proves anything you are severely delusional. as the known game mechanics say otherwise.

 

try to remember, coincidence doesn't = cause, facts, or...well anything. warframes don't have a built in evasion stat. vs 20's anyone decently set up has no fear. they're slow, take time to fire, to move and mostly spend quite a bit of time doing nothing. when they do fire and hit, damage is negligible, procs rarely happen and one or 2 shots and they die.

 

get to higher tier, and you start running into grineeer that fire from the hip (acquire targets incredibly fast, track them and are 100% accurate), and nearly always proc bleed. i leapt air slide style over grineer iin the 40's range , elite lancers who had their weapon trained on me firing the entire time without missing a shot. they start acting more like aimbots than flesh and other creatures that they are. instant snapshots and procs from behind cover as soon as a loki turns visible.

 

so yeah...your proof is lacking in all ways, experience, game mechanics, etc say otherwise than a short vid with few enemies all low tier and you constantly breaking LOS. which isn't always an option in many sections.

[TisEric]

Now do that in a grineer defense in an open area with 50 of them from every direction.

Then tell me how many of those miss you.

 

Grineer cant be dodged because in large volumes they overwhelm you no matter what.

The other guys have to either hit you with their slow dodge-able AOE shots or slow phaser blasts that have travel time.

Infested don't even have shots... you move a little and they all miss... them healers tho OP as S#&$.

Edited September 21, 2014 by TisEric

[Shreiko]

Trust me man you dont want any more slash procs than they currently offer, plus that looks like mercury, they are low level.

[Azawarau]

sounds like game mechanics to me, breaking LOS+low tier grineer. just like hit scan is game mechanics. funny thing, as they rank up? they fire more often and faster and the proc rate increases. i knew you were playing with low tier grineer just by the damage you were taking and the sporadic fire rate just by watching the vid.

 

all their stats rank up as they do, not just damage, armor and hp, which is what most tend to focus on.

 

if you think it proves anything you are severely delusional. as the known game mechanics say otherwise.

 

try to remember, coincidence doesn't = cause, facts, or...well anything. warframes don't have a built in evasion stat. vs 20's anyone decently set up has no fear. they're slow, take time to fire, to move and mostly spend quite a bit of time doing nothing. when they do fire and hit, damage is negligible, procs rarely happen and one or 2 shots and they die.

 

get to higher tier, and you start running into grineeer that fire from the hip (acquire targets incredibly fast, track them and are 100% accurate), and nearly always proc bleed. i leapt air slide style over grineer iin the 40's range , elite lancers who had their weapon trained on me firing the entire time without missing a shot. they start acting more like aimbots than flesh and other creatures that they are. instant snapshots and procs from behind cover as soon as a loki turns visible.

 

so yeah...your proof is lacking in all ways, experience, game mechanics, etc say otherwise than a short vid with few enemies all low tier and you constantly breaking LOS. which isn't always an option in many sections.

Let me clarify

 

Enemies with hitscan weapons have a % chance to hit

 

When you dont move that goes up

 

When you do move it goes down and you can see the bullets land around you rather than on you

 

Thats how dodging works

 

Staying mobile

 

And yes ive done 60 minute grineer missions and i can tell you all about how much they reduce damage by and blah blah

 

But

 

Its not impossible to dodge them like many people think and complain about

 

Thats the point of this thread

 

Now do that in a grineer defense in an open area with 50 of them from every direction.

Then tell me how many of those miss you.

 

Grineer cant be dodged because in large volumes they overwhelm you no matter what.

The other guys have to either hit you with their slow dodge-able AOE shots or slow phaser blasts that have travel time.

Infested don't even have shots... you move a little and they all miss... them healers tho OP as S#&$.

Ive done survival this way

 

Not seeing an issue

 

Trust me man you dont want any more slash procs than they currently offer, plus that looks like mercury, they are low level.

>insert dodge meme

 

Really though the grineer slash damage isnt bad and honestly

 

That dodging was half paying attention while talking to people and not even shooting

 

No powers, no super speed or anything

 

Avoiding being hit isnt that hard

 

i just did another 35 min mission with an MR 5 and an MR 3 and went 35 minutes

 

Until around 25 minutes i hadnt touched melee mode or life strike. Simply didnt need to

 

If the team had CC or werent so low ranked and being overwhelmed i wouldnt have switched over to melee to make up for the killing power

 

Its just not that hard to avoid

[darthdart]

Next time see if you can make the music even more loud and obnoxious.

[vaugahn]

get to higher tier, and you start running into grineeer that fire from the hip (acquire targets incredibly fast, track them and are 100% accurate), and nearly always proc bleed. i leapt air slide style over grineer iin the 40's range , elite lancers who had their weapon trained on me firing the entire time without missing a shot. they start acting more like aimbots than flesh and other creatures that they are. instant snapshots and procs from behind cover as soon as a loki turns visible.

 

High level enemies have the exact same behaviors as low level ones, they just do more damage and have more health. A level 40 Grineer is no more accurate than a level 20 one.

[Olematon.Mies]

I've noticed this.

 

When i'm hosting games, especially against Grineer, they hit me alot. Not all bullets mind you, but past lv20 I start to feel the hurt if I just run around blindly.This is when I'm hosting.

But when someone else is hosting, i can zip around all over the place without getting hit at all in some cases, even past lv 40.

 

 

This is even more apparent with Corpus. Sure, they dont have hitscan weapons, but you can see their accuracy alot better. 

When I'm hosting, their shots land quite close to their target - which is me - more often than not which results me having to dodge more. 

When someone else hosts, I can literally just walk in circles and they cant hit me at all.

 

 

My reasoning? Lag. It's helping.

[Azawarau]

Next time see if you can make the music even more loud and obnoxious.

I didnt have a choice in music

 

YT changed it because of a copyright claim

 

The song i had was Amai wanna paint it black

 

https://vimeo.com/106749984

 

Kinda has that old side to side groove with a bit of funky bass

Edited September 21, 2014 by Azawarau

[Nichivo]

I fail to see the point of this thread. So you took the highest armour value frame, into a low level grineer mission, and ran around to prove what exactly?

[Azawarau]

I fail to see the point of this thread. So you took the highest armour value frame, into a low level grineer mission, and ran around to prove what exactly?

No

 

I took the lowest SHIELD frame in the game and avoided most of the hits that were coming my way to show that hitscan isnt just you getting hit every time like many forumers believe

 

The enemies were lvl 19-20 by the way

Edited September 21, 2014 by Azawarau

[ReaperSticks]

I can't post "Song Name," because I know what people will say.

So I'll say:

Tell me what the song is!

Darude Sandstorm

[Nayru]

Let's say enemy accuracy becomes 100% headshot at Lvl 100

What does that have to do with the Lvl 45-50 enemies that you should be facing instead?

They'll still one-shot if you have a low effective health frame, or are on nightmare.

What does that have to do with enemies not only hitting 1 in 10 shots above the 20's?

[Rakshal]

These people trying to justify getting shot at high levels -.-

 

 

[Azawarau]

They'll still one-shot if you have a low effective health frame, or are on nightmare.

What does that have to do with enemies not only hitting 1 in 10 shots above the 20's?

Thats like saying theyll kill you if you come unprepared or go beyond your ability

 

Stating the obvious isnt making a point

 

 

These people trying to justify getting shot at high levels -.-

 

 

 

Eh?

[Lost_Cartographer]

 

These people trying to justify getting shot at high levels -.-

 

 

 

Well, you sure as hell don't tempt fate by "dodging" hit scan fire from a high level enemy in any frame NOT built to take hits.  You know... like most frames.  But sub mid-20's?  Excuse me while I stand there and obliterate a room.  Damage starts to scale fast past the mid 20 mark, and definitely at 30, it starts to get ugly real quick.  40, no, I will NOT rush out into the middle of a room zipping around, not even with Valkyr as I'd be spamming hysteria every few minutes or whatever other healing method I may have (note, most frames can't really rely on hysteria or life strike to save their @$$ in a high damage situation.)  They'll cut through her shield with a near miss and then it's just constantly taking the rounds I didn't "dodge," because whether or not the OP wants to believe it, the AI is very simple - it follows you, and then sprays rounds in a cone in front of them.  If they were given flashlights, it'd be akin to as long as they had that flash light on you, there's a chance you'll take a hit.  The truest justification that moving around actually increases chances of survivability would be to literally run circles around a lancer.  If they can't keep up, then they have built in lag.  Since it's a dumb bot, it shouldn't matter if you're 1m away, or 50m, They'll always maintain the same lock unless there's a lag time built into their code.

 

To date, I've never experienced bots in Warframe to ever miss from poor aim, just a crappy accuracy stat.  Running along a wall is a sure fire way to get smashed into it simply because it's a super predictable straight line at a constant speed - an AI's strongest point in movement prediction.  This is evident with the Corpus especially.

 

The most dangerous enemies in the void will remain the Grineer heavies, simply because they're the only unit with hit scan, and coincidentally, are the hardest to kill.  Everything else?  Periodic changes in trajectory will throw their aim WAY off.

 

I can only imagine this thread began as a result of whining from the current event lowering health/shield values in conjunction with Grineer fire arms.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Littleman88

[Azawarau]

Well, you sure as hell don't tempt fate by "dodging" hit scan fire from a high level enemy in any frame NOT built to take hits.  You know... like most frames.  But sub mid-20's?  Excuse me while I stand there and obliterate a room.  Damage starts to scale fast past the mid 20 mark, and definitely at 30, it starts to get ugly real quick.  40, no, I will NOT rush out into the middle of a room zipping around, not even with Valkyr as I'd be spamming hysteria every few minutes or whatever other healing method I may have (note, most frames can't really rely on hysteria or life strike to save their @$$ in a high damage situation.)  They'll cut through her shield with a near miss and then it's just constantly taking the rounds I didn't "dodge," because whether or not the OP wants to believe it, the AI is very simple - it follows you, and then sprays rounds in a cone in front of them.  If they were given flashlights, it'd be akin to as long as they had that flash light on you, there's a chance you'll take a hit.  The truest justification that moving around actually increases chances of survivability would be to literally run circles around a lancer.  If they can't keep up, then they have built in lag.  Since it's a dumb bot, it shouldn't matter if you're 1m away, or 50m, They'll always maintain the same lock unless there's a lag time built into their code.

 

To date, I've never experienced bots in Warframe to ever miss from poor aim, just a crappy accuracy stat.  Running along a wall is a sure fire way to get smashed into it simply because it's a super predictable straight line at a constant speed - an AI's strongest point in movement prediction.  This is evident with the Corpus especially.

 

The most dangerous enemies in the void will remain the Grineer heavies, simply because they're the only unit with hit scan, and coincidentally, are the hardest to kill.  Everything else?  Periodic changes in trajectory will throw their aim WAY off.

 

I can only imagine this thread began as a result of whining from the current event lowering health/shield values in conjunction with Grineer fire arms.

What?

 

At lvl 30 im still running into enemies with ember and melee

 

Are you sure its not you?

[Nichivo]

No

 

I took the lowest SHIELD frame in the game and avoided most of the hits that were coming my way to show that hitscan isnt just you getting hit every time like many forumers believe

 

The enemies were lvl 19-20 by the way

Could you please repeat this video in a survival in the void past the hour mark. What can I say I want a good laugh. I hate to see videos with freshly cloned Grineer barely at the walking stage in them. 

[Lost_Cartographer]

What?

 

At lvl 30 im still running into enemies with ember and melee

 

Are you sure its not you?

And how much shielding are we talking to get there?

[Azawarau]

Could you please repeat this video in a survival in the void past the hour mark. What can I say I want a good laugh. I hate to see videos with freshly cloned Grineer barely at the walking stage in them. 

Could you please post something relevant to the games intended level range or not post

 

Thanks!

 

And how much shielding are we talking to get there?

Almost none

 

I use an HP based build with a - shield helmet

[Lost_Cartographer]

Could you please post something relevant to the games intended level range or not post

 

Thanks!

 

Almost none

 

I use an HP based build with a - shield helmet

This is why I say you're lying, and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt.  Unless every enemy is firing from in front of her and they're not hitting very hard (at 30, she's definitely going to eat a lot of the stamina during parry especially as she closes in,) she's going to take hits from ray traced rounds, because by mechanical function they can't be dodged.

[vaugahn]

This is why I say you're lying, and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt.  Unless every enemy is firing from in front of her and they're not hitting very hard (at 30, she's definitely going to eat a lot of the stamina during parry especially as she closes in,) she's going to take hits from ray traced rounds, because by mechanical function they can't be dodged.

 

Every single round does not hit, and by moving you can increase the amount of rounds that miss. Dodge means "to avoid via quick movement", therefore running to make less rounds hit is dodging.

[Azawarau]

This is why I say you're lying, and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt.  Unless every enemy is firing from in front of her and they're not hitting very hard (at 30, she's definitely going to eat a lot of the stamina during parry especially as she closes in,) she's going to take hits from ray traced rounds, because by mechanical function they can't be dodged.

When you move you get hit less

 

WHEN YOU MOVE YOU GET HIT LESS

 

That is a dodge

 

Also ember has powers and i actually shoot with her

 

Unlike that video

[OptimumBow0]

It is possible to "avoid" hitscan, but not in the same sense you can dodge a bullet with travel-time. 

 

Let's pull something from mid-game content and talk about the Hind. That 5-round burst rifle that deals 30 damage at base per bullet (for a total of 150 in one burst) and has a hitscan travel time.

 

It's a little bugger, 5 insta-hit bullets. You may be able to dodge it, but if the first projectile ever hits you, you basically lose the power to avoid the next 4. 'Cause hitscan. And the frustration of an encounter with this gun is definitely exacerbated when there's more than one of them pointed at you. Even while moving, it seems 3 out of every 5 bullets are guaranteed to find their mark (the last couple usually have enough inaccuracy from recoil to not hit the player). I stay away from Phobos, mostly, for the gangs of Hind-wielding-Elites and Eviscerators (holy mother of bleed proc).

 

In that sense, it's hard to avoid hitscan because it takes a small cushion of time away from the player as well as an element of choice: whether I avoid getting hit or not is mostly up to the AI, not me.

 

Going back to what I first said, a good example of what I mean by "dodge a bullet with travel time" would have to be the majority of Corpus weapons; their projectiles are big, bright, and they don't home in on you in an instant. It is well within the player's capability to avoid plasma weapon projectiles whether they're accurately aimed at your or not because you can move out of the way in the small window of time it takes for a projectile to reach you.

 

In that sense, I have the power to legitimately react to, and dodge, incoming projectiles because they are visible and I have time to respond. That also means that if a bullet hits me, it has less to do with the game mechanics and more with the player's reflexes.

 

So, it's RNG/AI or Player Power. I'd rather the latter than the former.

[VioDuskar]

I can't post "Song Name," because I know what people will say.

So I'll say:

Tell me what the song is!

 

i didnt understand this. then i saw your name.