Does Skill Matter In Warframe ?

[VampirePirate]

Some people are just nGS

What is this supposed to mean?

[bejuizb]

Read updated OP. How did gate crasher take any skill at all O_o. All I did in that event was search for those damn cache's while ignoring/roflstomping enemies. Now cryotic front...that was a good event where I felt teamwork was required.

Not taking a single bullet isn't skill? Dodging legions of enemies while your abilities are gimped isn't skill? Fighting the two insane Grineer chicks wasn't skill? I beg to differ. I ran the whole event with an unmodded Loki. 50 health and shields by the time I ended it. All my abilities were gimped to 2s, and boy oh boy did it need me to be on my toes. 

 

With regards to the OP, yes. Warframe does require skill. Unfortunately, this community has been swayed to the concept of number crunching, DPS, endgame and TTK ever since December of last year, and it pisses me off sometimes. Diversity is provided but numbercrunching takes precedence. I pose a simple challenge: Observe the players you play with during missions. If you see a player equipped with relatively "mediocre" non top tier weapons and gear and absolutely wreck face, they're skilled. You can have absolute idiots toting Rhino Primes and Boltor Primes too. Gear doesn't make you effective, its the decisions that do. And a skilled player can make decisions on the fly and dominate.

[AoiiToori]

Not taking a single bullet isn't skill? Dodging legions of enemies while your abilities are gimped isn't skill? Fighting the two insane Grineer chicks wasn't skill? I beg to differ. I ran the whole event with an unmodded Loki. 50 health and shields by the time I ended it. All my abilities were gimped to 2s, and boy oh boy did it need me to be on my toes. 

 

With regards to the OP, yes. Warframe does require skill. Unfortunately, this community has been swayed to the concept of number crunching, DPS, endgame and TTK ever since December of last year, and it &!$$es me off sometimes. Diversity is provided but numbercrunching takes precedence. I pose a simple challenge: Observe the players you play with during missions. If you see a player equipped with relatively "mediocre" non top tier weapons and gear and absolutely wreck face, they're skilled. You can have absolute idiots toting Rhino Primes and Boltor Primes too. Gear doesn't make you effective, its the decisions that do. And a skilled player can make decisions on the fly and dominate.

If the original statement originally said that if you were to run gate crasher exclusively as a Loki sure I'd agree but it didn't so I assumed as any frame, in which case, I ran as a Rhino with a rank 17 Jat Kittag and Soma all throughout the event and only spent effort finding caches -- did not take skill at all (yes even on the Ceres part).

 

In which case it proves that skill is completely subjective. My favorite frame is Volt because running T4S 40+min with just speed and a Dragon Nikana makes me feel badass and skillfull while proving to elitist pugs, who laugh and deny me of my style, wrong when they die first and keep dying at that survival time threshold.

Edited October 2, 2014 by AoiiToori

[bejuizb]

If the original statement originally said that if you were to run gate crasher exclusively as a Loki sure I'd agree but it didn't so I assumed as any frame, in which case, I ran as a Rhino with a rank 17 Jat Kittag and Soma all throughout the event and only spent effort finding caches -- did not take skill at all (yes even on the Ceres part).

Unmodded Loki with Dual Zorens and a Vasto.

[SquirmyBurrito]

If the original statement originally said that if you were to run gate crasher exclusively as a Loki sure I'd agree but it didn't so I assumed as any frame, in which case, I ran as a Rhino with a rank 17 Jat Kittag and Soma all throughout the event and only spent effort finding caches -- did not take skill at all (yes even on the Ceres part).

 

In which case it proves that skill is completely subjective. My favorite frame is Volt because running T4S 40+min with just speed and a Dragon Nikana makes me feel badass and skillfull while proving to elitist pugs, who laugh and deny me of my style, wrong when they die first and keep dying at that survival time threshold.

 

You seem to have a very strange definition of skill. One that excludes accuracy, knowledge of the game and its mechanics, and good judgement. So I guess, yeah if your definition of skill excludes the very things that would normally be considered skill, the game doesn't take skill.

[SleepingSentry]

A few things that would benefit this game IMO.  

 

1 - more rewarding nightmare mode, more of a reason to do nightmare missions besides earth exterminate, more nightmare difficulty modifiers.  

 

2 - enemies should drop more life support, adjusted to a rate that if you are killing them quickly you can maintain.  Doesn't nullify a desecrate nekros' purpose, doesn't require that they spam only 1 skill without also spamming energy restores, also makes them not mandatory.

 

3 - defense / interception rewards stacking like they do in survival.

 

4 - increased number of enemies scaled with the # of players in the game

 

5 - the vast majority of items in the game able to drop in any mission, with harder missions providing better loot of course.

 

6 - a limited number of times you can go down in team games before you die instantly and have to revive.

Edited October 2, 2014 by SleepingSentry

[Aimop95]

You start needing some interesting parkor skill in t4s where your shields don't count for anything. That's when leaping over heads and keeping momentum suddenly becomes really important. I've had to wall run a couple times to escape enemy fire.

[AoiiToori]

You seem to have a very strange definition of skill. One that excludes accuracy, knowledge of the game and its mechanics, and good judgement. So I guess, yeah if your definition of skill excludes the very things that would normally be considered skill, the game doesn't take skill.

If you're implying that purely melee-ing at 40min+ T4S doesn't take skill, then I'll assume you haven't tried it. Accuracy barely matters here because the gunplay is very different than precision shooters. Good judgement is part of knowing when to close in on enemies and stamina managing when melee-ing, etc. etc.

 

Then again, like I said, skill in this game, for me, is pretty subjective.

Edited October 2, 2014 by AoiiToori

[Deus_X_Machina]

Skill...

 

When you rush through a level, using every parcour skill you have avaiable, to reach a downed Teammate a second before the countdown is up. Or the same with a Life support module.

 

When you see a teammate go down because of blindly jumping into the fray, and manage to raise him without dying.

 

When your ammunition runs out, and you find a way to prevail, somehow, with an inch of your life.

 

When the air is running out, and you rush through half a level with 5 health.

 

 

There are many situations that require skill, not dying is one of them, although it is often the application of skill over time, that preserves you.

 

Sometimes though, it would be nice to have a little bit more challenge, besides enemies getting so strong that your mistakes kill you instantly.

Maybe some AI challenge for a nice change. Maybe F.E.A.R. is selling its AI. Sadly enough, till today its the most challenging and adapting AI I have come across (says alot about game designers).

 

That said, the game is pushing the player too easily into the no challenge area.

The same reward for Earth Exterminate Nightmare, than for Pluto Defense Nightmare?

No real big incentive to run high level missions (at least no "advertised" ones) (Defense and Survival excepted, to a point)

Weapon Power Creep, without Missions getting harder / higher level missions with incentive becoming avaiable.

 

For me it seems, the game should push you towards higher challenges, even outside of the Void, and be careful not to make things less challenging by new equipment. (Different, not better)

[Acos]

Nobody really knows what skill is. 

Going strictly off the dictionary:
 

skill

noun

: the ability to do something that comes from training, experience, or practice

 

Then yes, this game does require that you be able to do things that you have learned how to do. Such as aiming your mouse, or taking cover, or knowing how to *read*. Most things that you'll ever do require skill. The problem most people have, particularly in gaming communities, is that they mistake the word "skill" with "difficult", as in, how *difficult* is this game. The problem with asking that question is that it's largely subjective, and a lot of people who play video games have an inferiority complex. 

Edited October 2, 2014 by Acos

[Cyberspace100]

In my own experience, are basically two answers to this:

 

1) Gear and DPS are all that matter and STUPID things like FUN don't have any bearing on this game in any way at all.

 

or

 

2) Fun is what matters no matter the gear or DPS.

 

I have seen a Rhino Prime with Boltor Prime, Orthos Prime and Marlok act so clueless in a T4 Defense that the other three of us simply quit on him after reviving him 4 times. I had seen some clueless Rhino Primes, but this guy was the worst.

 

AND I have seen a regular Excalibur with Mk-1 Braton, Mk-1 Furax and Kunai fighting smart as part of the team, staying close, supporting us all. We TORE through a Nightmare Alert on Pluto like a hot knife through butter.

 

Skill matters. it is not the be all and end all, but it matters.

Skill matters in any game, but do you need to have it in warframe...

 

Did that actually. She got to 5th wave before the pod got destroyed, but it was solo and never died. I stand by my statement.

Impressive

 

Sure, but Warframe is a shooter after all like many others where almost all you do is point enemy and shoot and try to not get hit too much, everyone can do that but not everyone one can master the parkour/wall run/wall vault/coptering, that takes a lot of practice so to me the real skill resides there.

Shooters take more skill than many other games, juding bullet drop, leading your shots, using cover, recognising enemis fast ehough, switching weapons for the right situation, spawing on sqad mates and supporting them, destroying enemy cover, locating spawn points, and staying alive while you do it.

 

mainly, this game needs smarter AI

why not make them smart but poorly equipped ? like a bunch of stalkers (but less lethal ofc)

that would make sense, i'd like better equided enemies, one that could kill you just as fast as you could kill it. Like in PVP shooters

 

You start needing some interesting parkor skill in t4s where your shields don't count for anything. That's when leaping over heads and keeping momentum suddenly becomes really important. I've had to wall run a couple times to escape enemy fire.

I've done this before and survived, but this guy uses none of that..

Also, i think that most players that play T4 frequently have no trouble at all killing the enemis (the 4 forma boltor prime is to blame).

 

Wow guys, this thread is making ground.

Lets hope the devs catch on.

[jfhsanseiIII]

Once you get into higher level content and have the right mods. It's less skill and more awareness that comes into play. I do miss as that the minors sense of danger from when I first started though. I think most of the newer bosses have done a good job of being fairly tough. If they want to really throw it in some extra danger though. Take away invincibility skills.

[Dasmir]

Really no, theres no skill in warframe but farm enought to make you weapons and youself god-like

[Aimop95]

 

I've done this before and survived, but this guy uses none of that..

Also, i think that most players that play T4 frequently have no trouble at all killing the enemis (the 4 forma boltor prime is to blame).

 

Wow guys, this thread is making ground.

Lets hope the devs catch on.

He's running a rhino prime, he is designed to tank. Not much skill in tanking really.

 

I'm talking about the less tanky frames who generally rely on their shields to soak up damage before they release their tenno power, but in t4s, your shields don't last long enough sometimes to make that viable. That's when you have to run off with some dodge and kick.

[Cyberspace100]

Once you get into higher level content and have the right mods. It's less skill and more awareness that comes into play. I do miss as that the minors sense of danger from when I first started though. I think most of the newer bosses have done a good job of being fairly tough. If they want to really throw it in some extra danger though. Take away invincibility skills.

I agree whole heartedly by all those, rhino, trinity and valkyr lovers might think differently. Also, loki's invisibility should be "Limited" its basically another rhino skin.

[valkerion77]

Yes and no is my opinion. All games can be played and enjoyed without the skill factor, they are made that way intentionally to maximize simplicity but maximize fun and enjoyment of the gameplay experience. When they are not made that way we get games that are over developed messes with terrible controls, mechanics, gameplay, and more. 

 

Warframe has the balance right imo. 

 

You can get plenty done without that unknown thing called skill. But having that "skill" we are talking about can make you get more out of less which is great. Average players can roll into Survival and hit 25~40 minutes. Skilled players can roll over 1~2 hours+ Thus getting more for playing "better" than others. Skill is a fluid statement in general especially in gaming. 

[emptiness]

the most important skills in warframe are

avoiding the wrong places at their wrong times (dont stand in the fire)

knowing when to retreat and hide for a bit

ammo conservation

ability use and power management to not underuse abilities and make things harder and overuse and have no emergency ability energy

[SquirmyBurrito]

If you're implying that purely melee-ing at 40min+ T4S doesn't take skill, then I'll assume you haven't tried it. Accuracy barely matters here because the gunplay is very different than precision shooters. Good judgement is part of knowing when to close in on enemies and stamina managing when melee-ing, etc. etc.

 

Then again, like I said, skill in this game, for me, is pretty subjective.

 

Please re-read my post. You completely misunderstood what I typed.

[Boatsniper]

No. This game does not require skill, simply because you can't sell skill to people.

[.Talia.]

There is very little Skill involved in PvE. My 9 years old nephew plays Warframe. 

 

If you want to see skill, join Europa Conclave, play some games, you are bound to meet some skilled players.

Edited October 3, 2014 by RexSol

[SquirmyBurrito]

There is very little Skill involved in PvE. My 9 years old nephew plays Warframe. 

 

If you want to see skill, join Europa Conclave, play some games, you are bound to meet some skilled players.

 

I used to PvP on Europa... Back when I PvP'd it was just a bunch of people competing to see who had the most broken setup. The match usually went to whoever had the Frost/Valkyr on their side.

[(PSN)Zeylon]

Most of the "skill" element is in learning in-game knowledge like level layouts, enemy patterns, and mission strategy.  The majority of your success is gear.  Though I kinda wish they'd flatten that curve, honestly.  The "power" of mods is one thing, but the ludicrous power gap between most of the primes and regular weapons is off-putting.  You'd still have a large gear/time advantage factor even if Primes/Wraith/whatever were largely cosmetic/extra-polarity/side-grade/situational.  

 

The massive tier difference just renders a huge chunk of content irrelevant except for Mastery grinding, and you can make that ludicrous leapfrog into ultra-tier within a couple days of play through the trade channel.  They're doing their own content a disservice.  

[aoguro]

LIke, does it?

 

are you allready EAGLE ?

 

and, sorry, no comments to this, everything is said in your question and the answers :-)))))))))))))))

as well as this thread really made my day ... =))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Edited October 3, 2014 by RVNN3R

[Draciusen]

Not so much skill, rather judgement.

That guy who took his Nyx Prime leveling in Apollodorus and died twice because he was door heroing with a level 0 frame.

Also kind of sucked how I was using Banshee and he'd rush to all the little red blips.

 

When enemies are shooting at you and actually hurting, crouching and taking cover instead of trying to kill them harder while they kill you.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Draciusen

[paragasu]

Kinda...rapid headshots require skills...and soloing t4 and t3 survival require skills...if your skill is not enough you can't really pass 1 hour in those two survival mission if you are soloing...

Edited October 3, 2014 by paragasu