Suggestions For Pvp (Here We Go Again!)

[NoggDog117]

Just a heads up to the Mods, I have no idea where topics like this belong, if it needs moving, please don't hesitate to do so!

 

Anyways, we all know how the gameplay of PvP is unbalanced. I won't waste time talking about how, as there have been plenty of threads about it, but I have been thinking of solutions to it.

 

1) Basic Loadouts.

Now, I am definitely not the first to suggest this. This is possibly the only thing that PvP really needs, as it can put everyone on an even playing field. The first example that came to mind of this is Halo Reach's game types, specifically Slayer. While yes, you could just pick up a different weapon, you have 5 loadouts to choose between, each with different armor abilities and weapons. With that system, matchmaking was brought down to just the player's skill, since everyone was on an even playing field, which is what Warframe just simply lacks.

 

All that would be needed for this is a simple choice of Warframes, Primaries, Secondaries, and melees, and it can be stereotypical, such as the Excal with a Braton, Lato, and Skana, or Ash with Paris, Kunai/Hikou, and Kogake/Fang, Ember with Ignis, Sicarus, and Dual Heat Swords/Silva & Aegis... There are so many possibilities I could list, but I won't, as this is merely a suggestion, not a "DE PLS DO DIS!" thread.

 

2) More game types!

To actually get a meaningful experience out of PvP, you need to wait for the Dark Sectors to enter conflict. While yes, there are the conclaves and the dueling rooms in the dojos, facing off against one other person (or two, in the case of Conclaves) is just plain boring after a while, especially with how modding takes hold in these two. PvP outside of Dark Sectors comes down to the team that hits first wins. Dark Sectors, however, are limited to the time frame in which rails are in conflict, and are often one-sided (See V on Sechura with their expensive battle pay) so you are often put against specters. SNOOZEFEST!

 

What can fix this is to add a use to that terminal opposite the News terminal on the Liset, in front of the Codex desk, as a PvP setup terminal, with more interesting game types, such as Capture the Flag, King of the Hill, and a version of Interception, each with the DE twist that the PvE gametypes have (See Survival and the life support), and color customization for your characters in PvP (building off of idea #1).

 

3) Increased player caps.

Yes, I know, computers can only handle so much, and Warframe runs on a client-host system, effectively putting a cap on the player limits. The 4v4's of Dark Sectors (when they happen) are pushing it already (Also, no, I don't entirely count dojos, as they are meant for large amounts of people who aren't dueling. Try putting 50 Mirages into 25 dueling rooms, all spamming Prism and Hall of Mirrors with Quanta/Penta/ThunderAttica/etc.. Hosts WILL crash.). But with more game types, usage of some of the large tiles already in the game (or upcoming, those ice tile sets are HUGE!) (multiple of these tiles linked together multiple ways, of course, it'd be hard to take a single room in a cramped Grineer Galleon for a 8v8 match!), players will want more people to shoot. While I wish I could use the word "Simply" in this, I cannot, as there is nothing simple about finding a way to increase player caps without performance and latency taking punches.

 

(Also, if you take that 50 Mirage thing I mentioned as a challenge, I would like to see that on a video, that'd be AWESOME!)

 

Well, that concludes my list. Please, do provide feedback, suggestions of your own, and, if you like the ideas on this thread, by myself or others, please, show your support! Change rarely happens as the result of one person... Well, one person can "spin the yarn", so to speak, for more people to join in, but it is only by more people joining in that anything gets accomplished.

[Kthal]

I would definitely like to see raised player caps, if it is possible.

 

Aside from that, while balance is needed, I have to strongly disagree with any preset loadout limitations as they will remove variety from the game.

 

 

How about one mirage with 200 grenades?:

Edited October 14, 2014 by Kthal

[hades9511]

I like your ideas but maybe we should take it a step further.

 

Since you talked of adding a PvP setup terminal, make it with custom features like melee only or no powers or mods.

 

Also i liked your capture the flag idea. But maybe instead of capture the flag it works like the artifact in the vault or basically OneFlag CTF from quake. Once a person picks up the artifact he is affected by the negative effects like hobbled, decaying etc so the rest of the team has to protect him and get him to safety.

 

These are just random thoughts. Once i have something more solid i will get back to you but overall like your ideas.

[hades9511]

How about one mirage with 200 grenades?:

 

 

Lol am amazed you still got 6 fps. Odds are my laptop would have crashed and burned till there was nothing left.

[Kthal]

Game crashed about 5 seconds later. Was lucky the screenshot got saved.

 

 

 

 

-snip- OneFlag CTF -snip-

 

One core Hijack?

Edited October 14, 2014 by Kthal

[hades9511]

Game crashed about 5 seconds later. Was lucky the screenshot got saved.

 

 

 

 

 

One core Hijack?

 

Not quite. I figure we have vault runs in derelicts so why not have 2 separate groups of tenno try to get to the artifact in the vault and get it back to extraction. Thats basically the idea. Core could be fine but i like artifact more since it puts negative status on the tenno carrying it so he becomes an easier target to take down. 

 

Maybe also make it that powers dont work for the tenno carrying it so we wont see iron skin spam or hysteria etc.

[NoggDog117]

How about one mirage with 200 grenades?:

That's one impressive picture.

 

But I do understand your concern over the limitations. But let's be honest here, balance without the limitations is practically impossible without creating a whole new game or affecting the PvE in some way. Mod combinations could be nerfed due to PvP (I think this already happened once), and those in PvE used it, they are affected by a nerf they did not want to happen. DE is experimenting, though, the scaling of damage from Bladestorm, for example. I just don't see the modding system as it is working with PvP without massive changes.

[DrBorris]

I love the way you can customize your load-outs for maximum OP in Warframe, but that does not belong in Dark Sectors. I tried to give a detailed suggestion on having preset options as far as frames and weapons when you enter a dark sector, then you available options can be increased if the Clan/Alliance you are fighting for researched more options. I see this as the Tenno being kind of like soldiers for hire in the Dark Sectors then, are equipped with the equipment from whatever side you are assisting. 

 

Original Post: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/316627-another-change-how-dark-sector-conflicts-work-thread/#entry3578770

As long as there is going to be a large reward for wining a Dark Sector Conflict, there will always be people who abuse the system. Balancing PvP is very difficult, putting people on an even playing field while allowing for skill based play and custom load outs is near impossible in Warframe. Warframes are just too OP. I know this is pessimistic and many have tried to bring up ways to change the system, but there will always be people who find something OP and abuse the hell out of it.

 

Just to clarify now, nothing I am saying applies to Conclaves, this is only about Dark Sector Conflicts, and I would actually prefer Conclaves going back to pre-Update 14 mechanics (no damage reduction). I enjoy the Conclaves, not so much the conflicts.

 

 

Here is my idea for a new system of how dark sector conflicts work.

 

When you, as a player, enter a Dark Sector Conflict, you are given an option of what Warframe you would like to use. As a default, there will be three Warframes (Excalibur, Volt, Mag (maybe different frames, just these three as an example)) to choose from. If a Clan/Alliance deploys a rail without any extra research, those will be all the options a person entering a conflict has to use. The Clan/Alliance can research the different frames individually for players/specters to use. For example, a Clan can researches the Loki Warframe, then anyone aiding them in the conflict can use one of the three default frames or Loki. How this logically works is that a player is controlling the specter. The Clan defending/attacking the rail paid for these specters that you are remotely controlling them. They do not have all of the functionality of normal Warfames nor the customization capabilities, but at least you are not killing yourself over and over (seriously, how does it make sense that I die in a conflict so much… without dying). Then, the player will select their primary/secondary/melee weapons. These will basically work the same as the Warframes. Three options for each unless the Clan/Alliance researched more. Not every weapon would be available, for the most part only the current Tenno weapons would (Latron, Braton, Boltor, Vectis, Strun, etc.) be able to be researched (No Primes). All weapons will have completely different damage values than in the PvE part of Warframe, all will be equally balanced. I know that this puts a lot of restraint on the large customization in Warframe, but it fits better logically and is more balanced.

 

Once in the conflict, leveling will work slightly different. Rather than Redirection all coming at once, your Frame slowly increases shield as it levels (like normally leveling a Warframe, but more pronounced per level). Abilities will come online at different ranks, first ability could come on at fifth rank, second at tenth rank, third at twentieth rank, and fourth at rank 30. Weapons will just slowly gain more damage per level, no mods coming online at once, it is a gradual increase in power. I am not sure if gaining experience should be as it is now (because that encourages camping and once a team gets the advantage… they win) or time based (missions could drag on even if the other team sucks).

 

DE having complete control over all damage values throughout the conflict will allow them to easily balance Abilities also. They would know that you only get X ability at X rank, thus everyone’s weapons is doing X damage and they have X health, so X ability should only do X damage.

 

If the specter you are controlling goes down, you will then have the option to switch load out. If using an Excalibur with a Latron, Furis, and Skana was not working, try Volt with a Strun, AkFuris, and Bo (or of course have a “reuse last selection” button for speedy re-spawns).

 

Normal specters will spawn as a random researched frame with random researched weapons. That will bring a bit more diversity to the Conflict. I also recommend removing the Grineer and Corpus entirely, with everyone at the same level the fodder should not be necessary.

 

Conclaves and Dark Sector Conflicts are two VERY different things, I wish that DE would separate the two. One is for small, high power, extremely fast paced battles. The other is for a still fast (but not as fast), medium power, large conflicts.

 

I understand that this destroys all current strategy from Dark Sectors as they are now, but there is little strategy as it is, it is just press 4 to win. I also understand that you may not like this idea in the least, say why as a comment, not just “no.” And if you see something that can be improved, please say whatever it is, I am not smart enough to come up with a full proof idea on my own.

 

Please nobody say “DE should just remove PvP from conflicts,” that discussion is for another thread (I do support the PvE option for defenders if no one is attacking to repair their rail).