Solo Standing Gains Testing - Facts.

[Lost_Cartographer]

To start, I wish to mention my controls:

 

No Sentinel.

Boosters are active.

All equipment is NOT max rank - this means I can see the exp earned for the run.

Solo runs only.

I ran E prime exclusively (so the affinity gain is small.)

 

Now, the fun stuff.

 

Initial testing followed a simple rule, only my warframe and my primary weapon could gain exp.  My secondary and melee could not.  The purpose was simple - my warframe and primary weapon would have exactly the same amount of exp at the end of the mission, the other two would not gain any exp at all.  The goal was to determine the formula for converting affinity into standing.  It was of the utmost importance to understand the formula before doing anything more complicated.  Thus, I ran E Prime over and over and over, banning myself from completing challenges, picking up affinity orbs, or destroying kubrow dens (I couldn't have picked a WORSE planet, eh?)

 

What I found, using ONLY the warframe's exp, was this formula:  warframe affinity / 225 = standing.  Fractions rounded up.  Consistently, the result landed on or within a fraction of the stated standing gain, and always under if it were a fraction.  Thus, I could conclude that this formula worked, and that fractions must always round up.  Just to be sure of another thing, I also ran with a maxed primary, and the formula still worked, so weapon rank doesn't matter.

 

The next test was simple - did weapon quantity determine standing gain?  I simply removed my secondary and melee and went back to work.  The results did not change.  Warframe affinity / 225 = standing.  Thus, I ruled out that less equipment meant more standing (barring testing of the sentinel's presence) as this was simply untrue.

 

The next test I re-equipped my secondary and melee weapon.  This time, I WOULD pick up affinity orbs, complete challenges (that I could complete with a primary weapon) and destroy kubrow dens, but I was still banned from using my secondary and melee weapon.

 

The result was that the formula of warframe affinity / 225 = standing did not work.  So now I knew it wasn't based on just warframe affinity.  I had two matching sets of affinities: warframe and primary, secondary and melee.  I added one copy from each set together and divided that by 225.  THEN the math worked out and once again, my numbers constantly fell to within a fraction of the stated standing gain.

 

However, I knew weapons could all gain different exp quantities, so now all bets were off, as I knew the formula.  I made sure everything received a different amount of exp at the end of a mission, going all out all over E Prime's poor Grineer platoons.  The result?

 

Affinity / 450 = standing.  That is, the total sum of all affinity gained from the warframe and all three weapons divided by 450 will equal the total standing earned.  The presence of the sentinel is still absent.

 

 

So to conclude:

Conclave has no bearing on standing (I was constantly ranking up and modding out, no change observed.)

The amount of weapons equipped has no bearing on standing gain.

Weapon rank has no bearing on standing gain (so go all out.)

ALL affinity earned (across these four items) is calculated towards standing gain.

 

Affinity / 450 = standing.  Simple.  Will have to try for something like 50k+ exp or some such to see if the formula still holds.

 

Yay, hard numbers!

[Rydian]

Thank you very much for doing these tests, and for listing your procedures.

[shut]

Shame that conclave rating does nothing for it; would've added an interesting dynamic. Now I just feel silly with my 392-conclave Rage Pure-Melee Excalibur. XD

[TheVerdict]

Definitely appreciate all the effort you've put into this. Seems like a handful of work.

[Inversus]

Others were claiming using a single weapon increased standing, glad it sounds like I can rank up multiple weapons while not gimping standing gain

[Lost_Cartographer]

Others were claiming using a single weapon increased standing, glad it sounds like I can rank up multiple weapons while not gimping standing gain

 

Yeah, no change on my end.  While the intention of running Earth exterminates was to limit the sheer amount of exp I could gain and the fluctuation there of, sometimes I would find myself walking away with 3000, sometimes 8000, depending on rarer spawns like heavy gunners.  When I opened up to affinity orbs, challenges, and kubrows, I could end up with upwards of 20k.  450 was always the magic number regardless of the number of weapons I brought, what I did with them, etc.  All exp gained gets pooled then divided by 450.

 

I have little reason to believe after a few thousand kills or millions of exp the formula would show some flaw.  I doubt DE put in some background mechanics for group play either.  Seems largely unnecessary and could be counter-intuitive in some instances.  Basically, it would end up as needless complication for something that's supposed to be a new form of exp grind for those people complaining about targis prime accessories coming with boosters.  I bet now they might not mind those boosters so much...

Edited October 27, 2014 by Littleman88

[steak]

 

Conclave has no bearing on standing (I was constantly ranking up and modding out, no change observed.)

The amount of weapons equipped has no bearing on standing gain.

Weapon rank has no bearing on standing gain (so go all out.)

ALL affinity earned (across these four items) is calculated towards standing gain.

 

Affinity / 450 = standing.  Simple.  Will have to try for something like 50k+ exp or some such to see if the formula still holds.

 

Yay, hard numbers!

Nice. 

 

I saw some distortion connected to challenges though. They seem to award extra rep. Can you confirm this?

 

What syndicate are you on?

[Lost_Cartographer]

Nice. 

 

I saw some distortion connected to challenges though. They seem to award extra rep. Can you confirm this?

 

What syndicate are you on?

Steel Meridian.

 

Challenges don't reward bonus rep on their own, just extra exp to build rep from.  A full 10,000 exp is 23 (22.22) rep/standing.  The average E Prime - Earth run nets me 24-30 rep/standing, and with challenges and affinity orbs, I can boost that up to 50-60 easy.  Throw in a few heavy gunners, and that number could become 70.  Not bad for 5 minutes of giving in to my homicidal tendencies.  Man was letting loose satisfying towards the end of testing.  The carnage.

 

I probably should have gone Red Veil.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Littleman88

[Seraphyx]

Thanks for all this research. It seems solid. From my short testing sentinel does affect how much total rep you get (you get less with it). Obviously everyone feel free to test it as well. I did exterminate missions so the amount of kills don't fluctuate too much. Basically I ended up with an exterminate with a few rare mobs and 10 more overall kills, I got an equal amount of rep compared to not using a sentinel and 10 less kills and less rare mobs.

 

Didn't pick up any affinity orbs or do objectives.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Seraphyx

[Eggzodiya]

I cannot even imagine how long it took you to do this...

[Rydian]

Others were claiming using a single weapon increased standing, glad it sounds like I can rank up multiple weapons while not gimping standing gain

It depends on if the extra weapons gained EXP or not and how they gained EXP.  Splits are different depending on who did the kill and what weapon was used or if it was an ability kill, etc.

[Lost_Cartographer]

I cannot even imagine how long it took you to do this...

 

A good 6+ hours (was doing it since ~10:00 am to 7:30 pm when my archwing finished cooking.)  Each run took like 5 minutes since it IS Earth.  Typically 50-70 enemies per run and they tended to stack up into easy to slaughter trains.  Alas, I forgot to count how many bodies I could skewer onto a single Dread arrow.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Littleman88

[Kurnuttaja]

Others were claiming using a single weapon increased standing, glad it sounds like I can rank up multiple weapons while not gimping standing gain

But... this is actually true in group play. By equipping only one weapon you get more rep from other players' kills, Im 100% certain about this.

[Lost_Cartographer]

But... this is actually true in group play. By equipping only one weapon you get more rep from other players' kills, Im 100% certain about this.

 

At this point, it's all conjecture and reeks of superstitions based on other reasons to do it this way.  Basically, if the rep gain were calculated off ONLY warframe exp, then yes, this would be true, but rep gain is calculated off of total exp gain, so the amount of weapons carried doesn't matter.  Further, if people were to show every piece of equipment they had on them to report exp (the blue exp, not the bonus gold) earned and then ran the formula against that and it failed, then maybe there's some other modifiers in co-op.  But for solo testing, it is suggested that exp is exp, no matter where it comes from, and I have no reason to believe this changes when other Tenno are present.  A frame and a primary splitting 1000 exp 50/50, or a frame and three weapons splitting it four ways.  1000 exp is still 3 rep.  

 

This ratio is actually in line with Kinperor's findings, but he didn't quite understand why.  1000 / 450 is actually 2.2222222~ but if we were to stop at exactly 1000 exp, it would round up to a full 3 because Warframe doesn't like fractions except where weapon damage is concerned.  In truth, every 450 exp is exactly one standing point.  One of my test runs even ended up with 30 rep, and the exp I gained was evenly divisible by 450 to be exactly 30.  Was kinda floored at the chances of that, honestly.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Littleman88

[legendarysidekicksteve]

Since you did your tests in solo, do you think having more/less weapons equipped makes a difference when playing in groups?

[HolidayPi3]

I did some tests too. This one shows that rep gain is definitely either tied to conclave, or equipment.

 

Here's what I did:

2 Excals

2 Tiberons

One with only the Tiberon
One with full equips

Kiste-Ceres MD
Boosters active on both
No abilities
Glued to each other's hips
Both Steel Meridian

 

Here are the results.

Player with PRIMARY ONLY -- 978 Rep -- 555 Conclave

Player with FULL EQUIPS -- 525 Rep --- 1155 Conclave

I'm not sure how to reconcile a 453 difference in rep. That's a pretty large difference in gains, given that we were glued at the hip at all times to ensure no affinity was missed. Also made sure to pick up all the same drops.

EDIT: Messed up images. Fixed.

Edited October 27, 2014 by HolidayPi3

[Seraphyx]

I did some tests too. This one shows that rep gain is definitely either tied to conclave, or equipment.

Sentinels (and I assume kubrows) do take away from your exp I'm almost positive. I saw the second one had a kubrow. If you could do the same thing without the kubrow and show us the results I'd be very interested.

 

I did my own testing (although no where near as intensive as the OP) and found that having a sentinel seems to lower the amount of total rep I get compared to not having it but using full equips (primary, secondary, and melee).

Edited October 27, 2014 by Seraphyx

[HolidayPi3]

Sentinels (and I assume kubrows) do take away from your exp I'm almost positive. I saw the second one had a kubrow. If you could do the same thing without the kubrow and show us the results I'd be very interested.

 

I did my own testing (although no where near as intensive as the OP) and found that having a sentinel seems to lower the amount of total rep I get compared to not having it but using full equips (primary, secondary, and melee).

Aye, that is a Kubrow. I'm leaning in the direction that the OP is, which is that weapons don't affect rep gains-- but our companions do (I consider Sentinels / Kubrows equipment). I'm just adding in some extra data so the OP doesn't have to do all this testing alone. Kiste with no abilities is tough, but provides enough experience / rep for variances in data to be noticeable.

A few more tests over the course of the week and I get the feeling we'll be closer to the truth.

[HolidayPi3]

Here's another test.

2 Frost Primes
2 Tiberons
No sentinels / pets
497 Conclave on both
Kiste-Ceres MD
Ice wave used once (accident... so I made the other player replicate it)
Boosters active on both
Glued to each others' hips
Steel Meridian

Results (too lazy to post images... you'll have to take my word on this)
Me: 878 rep
Other: 1017 rep

Difference is 139 rep. So OP is definitely right about conclave not having any bearing.

Between this test and the last test though, the gap between me and the other player in terms of rep closed by 314 points. I'd say that's reasonable for a sentinel to steal, especially considering boosters.

I will note something very interesting happened during the mission though--

When I used Ice Wave, my rep went up by 1 point. When he used it, he claimed he went up 3 rep points (Using the view mission info). I'll definitely test this oddity out. Could have been a bug.

Edited October 27, 2014 by HolidayPi3

[steak]

Aye, that is a Kubrow. I'm leaning in the direction that the OP is, which is that weapons don't affect rep gains-- but our companions do (I consider Sentinels / Kubrows equipment). I'm just adding in some extra data so the OP doesn't have to do all this testing alone. Kiste with no abilities is tough, but provides enough experience / rep for variances in data to be noticeable.

A few more tests over the course of the week and I get the feeling we'll be closer to the truth.

Yeah. Companions take away your affinity and affect standing gains negatively. Sentinels and Kubrows always stole affinity.

 

Steel Meridian.

 

Challenges don't reward bonus rep on their own, just extra exp to build rep from.  A full 10,000 exp is 23 (22.22) rep/standing.  The average E Prime - Earth run nets me 24-30 rep/standing, and with challenges and affinity orbs, I can boost that up to 50-60 easy.  Throw in a few heavy gunners, and that number could become 70.  Not bad for 5 minutes of giving in to my homicidal tendencies.  Man was letting loose satisfying towards the end of testing.  The carnage.

 

I probably should have gone Red Veil.

Maybe. But in a few occasions the 450:1 ratio did not hold and the rep gain at the end does not always add up - I was left with more than I expected sometimes. There is some rounding, but the numbers were too high to be taken as approximation (I did my testing in solo Mercury mostly so I had low gains even with booster on). 

 

During the weekend I did a lot of solo testing too and while everything you posted originally makes sense and I can validate it I have seen distortions that I can't explain. 

 

Arbiter and Suda here - not sure it makes any difference, but we need to take any possibility of syndi specific mechanics (if there are any) out of the way.

Edited October 27, 2014 by steak

[Winter-Silence]

My tests r telling that more weapons u have - less fraction points u gain. That is 2000 points for 7 waves of cerberus with all weapons and exp booster, another man did 2000points for 7 waves with only boltor prime and without boosters (all of them were in the same full party), The difference is pretty obvious. Also there's one more thing, being in a group of players in the same fraction can boost your points or vise versa with the enemy fraction in your team. Solo grind is useless cause not much gain from it.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Winter-Silence

[steak]

My tests r telling that more weapons u have - less fraction points u gain. That is 2000 points for 7 waves of cerberus with all weapons and exp booster, another man did 2000points for 7 waves with only boltor prime and without boosters (all of them were in the same full party), The difference is pretty obvious. Also there's one more thing, being in a group of players in the same fraction can boost your points or vise versa with the enemy fraction in your team. Solo grind is useless cause not much gain from it.

Were all of these in a group? The numbers when you are in a group vary wildly.

 

Not wanting to be nitpicky here, but the thread is about solo gains. 

[Winter-Silence]

Were all of these in a group? The numbers when you are in a group vary wildly.

 

Not wanting to be nitpicky here, but the thread is about solo gains. 

Yes, they were all in a group of 4, Not much related to solo games, my bad but still may be useful for some players.

[101010]

OP is clearly an amateur. Sorry I'm not trying to insult him or anything but he clearly did the simplest mistakes, comparing his results when the data (and here the xp gain) was clearly not the same as well as not doing his homework on how affinity and the xp system works (especially this one). Let me explain.

When you do missions in solo, the simple low lvl ones, you get from 20-200 mobs, 2-10 affinity orbs and cast from 10-20 abilities. (numbers are made up just to prove my point) So in essence the total xp gained varies greatly. Now if you do a defense with 10+ waves, the number of mobs that come at you is more or less the same to a very small % of difference of course.

So whenever I have been doing missions in dark sectors I have seen around 900 or 1000 reputation gain for 20 waves while my friends were always having 450 or 500. We where 4, on teamspeak comparing our results after each mission. Every time I had 50% more reputation then them and they where starting to accuse me of witchcraft (seriously they where talking about sacrificing me to the rng god and cthulhu while at it).

Then I saw the only difference between me and them: the number of weapons we had. They all went in their lvl 30 equipment while I was re-formatting my boltor prime and had only that equipped, a frame and my shade. I told them try taking off a few stuff and try. Next we went in again with this combo:
- Me: frame, pet, rifle
- Dude1: frame, rifle
- Dudte2: frame, pet, rifle
- Dude3: frame, pet, rifle, pistol, melee (he was saying we where all silly)

In the end, after the same number of waves as before we got (approximated numbers, they varied by 20 or so points):
- Me: 900
- Dude1: 1100
- Dudte2: 900
- Dude3: 450 (it's still a lol)

Then, over and over again we did endless defenses and other missions with min equipement and we got more or less the same results. Around 1000 for 20 vawes in dark sector.

Now as for the theory and homework part. Here is why exactly the OP made a mistake. If you read this page on the wiki:
 

 

If an enemy was killed by a weapon, experience is equally distributed between the weapon used to kill the enemy and your Warframe. (hey op this is why you got those results in sole where you do all the killing) If an enemy was killed with a Warframe ability, your Warframe will gain all the experience (exceptions are Nyx's Mind Control and Chaos and Specters which do not give players any experience, and Nekros's Shadows of the Dead which gives the player's Warframe 50% of the kill experience).

Some examples to illustrate how this works:
Suppose a player kills an enemy that grants 300 experience with a Warframe ability. He will gain 300 Warframe experience. Suppose a player kills an enemy that grants 200 experience with his Primary. He will gain 100 Primary experience and 100 Warframe experience.

 

 

Whenever any member of the team kills an enemy, nearby teammates (up to ~50m away) will gain full experience from that kill. It does not matter what that team member used to kill the enemy with (Warframe ability or weapon). This experience is divided among their Warframe and weapons: 25% is given to their Warframe, and the remaining 75% is split between their equipped weapons.

 

This info about xp gain mechanics as well as my tests show us clearly that (warframe affinity gain)*X = standing.

 

Want to maximize gain ? Go in alone in solo with ember for example and burn it all ! All the xp will go to your frame and be transformed into standing. Good luck with waves 10+ in defense though...

Edited October 27, 2014 by 101010

[KIREEK]

I used mag shield polarize and killed the vast majority of the enemies in a 4 player group, i received less rep than them and we all had only 2 things, warframe and primary.

 

Shield polarize divides the exp for players warframe and primary 50/50, while for me it goes 100% to warframe.

How i got a little less is beyond me.

Edited October 27, 2014 by KIREEKPSO