Why Does Archwing Even Exist?

[Varzy]

It is fun! I agree! But it's not Warframe, it's basically a different game.

 

You're acting as if Warframe *with gravity* is a space that's totally played out, but there's alot yet to be explored: actual stealth gameplay, real end-game content, AI improvements, and so on. Diverting efforts from improving those elements in favor of creating a novel mode that adds nothing to core gameplay is a cop-out, and as much as you like that it's sparkly and new, it's going to suffer from the same problems that frustrate you in the rest of Warframe.

Oh, I see, so basically this is another "Stop introducing new concepts and fix the old ones" thread.

 

While there's merit in those suggestions, DE can't remain static with Warframe. They need to keep moving forward and adding new content, while strengthening old content as they go. And they do! Defense and Interception missions now have a system that's much more rewarding, the melee reworks have been improved with directional attacks, and so forth.

 

To say Archwing offers nothing to the core concept is incredibly dismissive, though. Like other posters have said, it's a different way to progress and pass the time in the game. People get bored of running around in corridors and playing similar missions over and over, and even introducing improved steath systems wouldn't actually solve the burnout problem people have with the core Warframe gameplay. Archwing is variety, it's another way to play the game and clense your palette, and considering how it's banished my own veteran's burnout, I think it's working as intended.

[EversorNinja]

It is fun! I agree! 

 

You're acting as if Warframe *with gravity* is a space that's totally played out, but there's alot yet to be explored: actual stealth gameplay, real end-game content, AI improvements, and so on. 

 

Ok, I can agree with this. I especially want improved stealth. But I'm willing to have fun in space while I wait for stealth, focus, etc.

[Varzy]

Drama for attention; but I digress. It's not necessarily a horrible thing on principle, but as it is it's totally removed from the rest of the game. If we saw something like new tilesets with archwing segments or the ability to use 'land-guns' in space that attempted to actually extend the existing gameplay, I'd be all for it. Instead, it's totally separate from existing content instead of being an actual expansion of what already exists. It doesn't make sense.

Right now it's only just been introduced. DE want to have it integrated, in the vein that the first Archwing mission was. Soon, no doubt, we'll see more mixed playmode missions. We already got a taste of that, so give DE time to expand the options available.

[CrazyCatLad]

I approve of Archwing.

[Fundance]

If anything, they need to impliment the gap closer from Archwing's melee attacks into regular melee strings. That quick dash towards your target just feels SO GOOD.

[KairaSilvermist]

HOW DO YOU GET THE OTHER ONE! i don't know how D:

 

It's in Warframe Blueprints, in teh Market :) you can pick up teh axe in melee blueprints, and the Flack Cannon is next to the Drakgoon in Primary weapons. It's a bit on the steep prices, but it's worth it. you can get the parts from Archwing Interceptions ~.^

[Zanukacola]

Other than the obvious bugs, most people seem to like it a lot. Some people have taken up to playing only it.

 

You seem to have missed the giant stacks of posts going "all we ever do is run around indoors shooting things, we need something different. This game is boring."

 

AW is variety. It's something new. It's something different. It's an expansion of the engine and the mechanics and the game. It's also a generic upgrade of the system--things they had to figure out to make AW affect the rest of the game(like PBR).

 

There have been tons of people bemoaning "all they ever add are new guns and slightly-different things to run past while doing the same old mechanics", and, well, they've got a point.

 

Plus, this is a building block. The number of possible game ideas and modes and viable concepts just spiked dramatically. This is, technically, our first vehicle/mount. People have wanted those for a long time. There's a ton of things people have been requesting for years that are now possible.

 

Further, your complaint about "old stuff being irrelevant", well, that's been another constant rage--old players find no challenge in acquiring new stuff. Some people take days or weeks to farm up and build things. They have to hunt and chase and whatever. Old players build 1/2 of the new stuff 5 minutes after release, and the other half 3 days and 5 minutes after release(when the dojo is done researching it), and can't even tell you how many resources it cost them, or where to find those resources.

 

This sort of thing makes releases odd. The older players don't notice/complain about things they should be(example: I had 197 morphics when they had the 200 morphics BP glitch--if I hadn't recently been building stuff, I'd not have realized it cost that much), and newer players don't understand what's wrong, or how to properly convey "SOMETHING IS UP". I've heard cases against every new addition to the game being a "mistake" and "waste of resources". Gosh darn it, they're not making whatever it is you think is most important.

 

So, you're entitled to your opinion, that, personally, you don't care for this and will never play it. Other players think this is the greatest thing ever, or that it would be the greatest thing ever if they can get rid of some of the dramatic bugs. Some players particularly like flight sim games, and will be tempted to try warframe *specifically* so they can try the "flying space ninja" version.

 

Try to see the "big picture".

Let me make an analogy here; soccer is a great sport right? It's well-liked world-over, though I'm sure that not *everybody* loves it. 

But because some people are bored with it, we decide to spice it up! We decide to add a segment half-way through the game where the players pick up the soccer ball with their hands and throw it into the goals for points.

 

Have we added something new? Yes. Have we spiced up the gameplay? Yes. Are we adding anything in the long term? No. Because soccer is about kicking the ball, and if we wanted to play a game where people threw balls, we'd play basketball instead. 

 

Maybe I or you think Archwing is awesome and fun, and that definitely has merit. But it's a radical divergence from existing gameplay with no attempt at integrating what already exists, which I think is harmful in the "big picture".

[Varzy]

I think Invasion missions could be prime Archwing opportunities. Imagine beginning inside a Grineer Galleon and eliminating the Grineer within, before leaping into open space and connecting to your Archwing so you can destroy the Grineer's space forces. With them in pieces, you dive into the Corpus ship you saved and excise the remaining Grineer forces before heading to extract.

 

Archwing also blows open opportunities for vaster set=pieces and cinematics in events.

[Verouzer]

Archwing is hella lot of fun. There are many bugs right now but they'll be fixed sooner or later. And the gameplay will get even better. Warframe changes all the time. Be open to new things. There are a lot of improvements that need to be done to the game but good things require longer time. When I first started playing Warframe it felt magical. Now it feels like home to me. DE is heading the right path. And I can't wait to slaughter grineers underwater.

[Fundance]

 

Let me make an analogy here; soccer is a great sport right? It's well-liked world-over, though I'm sure that not *everybody* loves it. 

But because some people are bored with it, we decide to spice it up! We decide to add a segment half-way through the game where the players pick up the soccer ball with their hands and throw it into the goals for points.

 

Have we added something new? Yes. Have we spiced up the gameplay? Yes. Are we adding anything in the long term? No. Because soccer is about kicking the ball, and if we wanted to play a game where people threw balls, we'd play basketball instead. 

 

Maybe I or you think Archwing is awesome and fun, and that definitely has merit. But it's a radical divergence from existing gameplay with no attempt at integrating what already exists, which I think is harmful in the "big picture".

 

Videogames don't work that way though. Again, take a look at any character action game by Platinum. Wonderful 101 for example, had an entire stage that borrowed controls from PUNCH OUT of all things, along with multiple shooter sections that required the player to adapt to a new control scheme every time.

Don't be so closed minded.

[Varzy]

Let me make an analogy here; soccer is a great sport right? It's well-liked world-over, though I'm sure that not *everybody* loves it. 

But because some people are bored with it, we decide to spice it up! We decide to add a segment half-way through the game where the players pick up the soccer ball with their hands and throw it into the goals for points.

 

Have we added something new? Yes. Have we spiced up the gameplay? Yes. Are we adding anything in the long term? No. Because soccer is about kicking the ball, and if we wanted to play a game where people threw balls, we'd play basketball instead. 

 

Maybe I or you think Archwing is awesome and fun, and that definitely has merit. But it's a radical divergence from existing gameplay with no attempt at integrating what already exists, which I think is harmful in the "big picture".

That's, honestly, a seriously faulty analogy.

 

it's more like, soccer is a great sport. People have a lot of fun playing it. But then people bring in a basketball and say, "Hey, that court over there is free, lets play a little of this, change things up".

 

And you're arguing, "Hey we're missing sight of why we all came here in the first place! Get rid of that basketball!"

[Zanukacola]

Right now it's only just been introduced. DE want to have it integrated, in the vein that the first Archwing mission was. Soon, no doubt, we'll see more mixed playmode missions. We already got a taste of that, so give DE time to expand the options available.

Maybe so; I don't know what they're cooking up. Maybe in the future we will see Archwing integrated with normal gameplay, and at that point I'll welcome it with open arms. But at the moment it's a weird minigame.

 

At any rate, it's good to see what everyone thinks about this! I'm not totally sure this represents the will of the community as a whole, but clearly my viewpoint is not as common as I expected. That's fine though, I really do hope I'm wrong about all this! Time will tell. 

[NinthAria]

Drama for attention; but I digress. It's not necessarily a horrible thing on principle, but as it is it's totally removed from the rest of the game. If we saw something like new tilesets with archwing segments or the ability to use 'land-guns' in space that attempted to actually extend the existing gameplay, I'd be all for it. Instead, it's totally separate from existing content instead of being an actual expansion of what already exists. It doesn't make sense.

 

The system is in its infancy. There are a number of places it can go from here, much the same way the rest of the game can, and has; new mission types, new maps, new enemies, new Archwings, new weapons, all that stuff. Probably even some weaving of the main game and Archwing. If DE never makes a hybrid normal/Archwing mission like the intro quest ever again, I will eat my warframe's helmet.

 

And I play Ember Prime. It would be a very painful helmet.

 

Also, it's not completely separate when it uses a lot of the same core techniques, controls, and strategies you build up during the main game. Oh, and also your warframe's health, shield, armor, and energy values.

[Imaru]

Let me make an analogy here; soccer is a great sport right? It's well-liked world-over, though I'm sure that not *everybody* loves it. 

But because some people are bored with it, we decide to spice it up! We decide to add a segment half-way through the game where the players pick up the soccer ball with their hands and throw it into the goals for points.

 

Have we added something new? Yes. Have we spiced up the gameplay? Yes. Are we adding anything in the long term? No. Because soccer is about kicking the ball, and if we wanted to play a game where people threw balls, we'd play basketball instead. 

 

Maybe I or you think Archwing is awesome and fun, and that definitely has merit. But it's a radical divergence from existing gameplay with no attempt at integrating what already exists, which I think is harmful in the "big picture".

That's not a really good example. DE has already shown their plans of integrating Archwing gameplay into normal gameplay with the last mission of the quest, so we know that combined missions are coming, hopefully in the near future. Having shown that plan off (albiet in only one, non replayable mission) we can safely assume that more is coming.

 

How much fun was it to dodge the laser from the Formorian on that mission? To fly like a bat out of hell toward the extraction, only to be stopped by an energy grid? To hear Hek's and Frohd's back and forth? I think THAT is what is planned for the future of Archwing, not just isolated missions in Archwing or on foot. 

[xRevelation]

Archwing is a waste of DE's time and resources that adds nothing to the core values of the game

 

Yes i see the point but i think they want to increase diversity of the game. I know they got a huge amount on arms, especially melees wich i really love over all guns but tbh it's like with the Lisette. Warframe was good as it was though many ppl wanted something like this. And i think i even thought about something more than just rushing missions and killing stuff. Well yeah Archwing isn't diffrent at this point but you get the idea.

 

It takes the whole Warframe, Tenno Story thing to a next level and i must say i wanted more depth in the whole scenario. Like a background story or something worth fighting for (Just as a concept) and so on.

 

And Archwing is a step forward in this kind of thing.

 

Cheers ~NovaCry

Edited October 27, 2014 by NovaCry

[Zanukacola]

That's, honestly, a seriously faulty analogy.

 

it's more like, soccer is a great sport. People have a lot of fun playing it. But then people bring in a basketball and say, "Hey, that court over there is free, lets play a little of this, change things up".

 

And you're arguing, "Hey we're missing sight of why we all came here in the first place! Get rid of that basketball!

I don't claim that it's perfect, but I disagree in that DE isn't some multi-headed hydra that can go from doing one thing well to doing two things at the same level overnight. Archwing is a large enough departure from existing content that I must assume that its creation NEEDS to come at the expense of other things DE is working on. 

 

Their resources are limited, and spending them on creating a totally new game mode *must* come at the expense of the primary mode, whether that be in the form of slower content release or whatever. Ultimately I would prefer to see the core shooter gameplay polished to a mirror shine than see a flight simulator-esque element added.

[Llyssa]

Let me make an analogy here; soccer is a great sport right? It's well-liked world-over, though I'm sure that not *everybody* loves it. 

But because some people are bored with it, we decide to spice it up! We decide to add a segment half-way through the game where the players pick up the soccer ball with their hands and throw it into the goals for points.

 

Have we added something new? Yes. Have we spiced up the gameplay? Yes. Are we adding anything in the long term? No. Because soccer is about kicking the ball, and if we wanted to play a game where people threw balls, we'd play basketball instead. 

 

Maybe I or you think Archwing is awesome and fun, and that definitely has merit. But it's a radical divergence from existing gameplay with no attempt at integrating what already exists, which I think is harmful in the "big picture".

It's not really all that "radical divergence". Honestly, it's quite a bit like playing a high-efficiency zephyr.

 

Also, soccer is only highly-popular in countries that don't understand football. In countries that understand football, it's generally ignored, as football, which involves throwing AND kicking, is a far superior sport.

[Implodingbanana]

It's in Warframe Blueprints, in teh Market :) you can pick up teh axe in melee blueprints, and the Flack Cannon is next to the Drakgoon in Primary weapons. It's a bit on the steep prices, but it's worth it. you can get the parts from Archwing Interceptions ~.^

wow that easy huh....IM STUPID! thx for the info!

[Mak_Gohae]

The ran out of ideas or the Evolution engine has reached it's limit. 

Look at the last group of new missions added, i think all but one have been some sort of defense-type, right?

 

I think DE REALLY needs to start creating missions type for certain type of game play and stop making it sure everyone can play everything.

They need stealth only missions, they need full team missions where everyone has a job, they need duo only missions, etc, etc.

[Jinryusai]

I don't claim that it's perfect, but I disagree in that DE isn't some multi-headed hydra that can go from doing one thing well to doing two things at the same level overnight. Archwing is a large enough departure from existing content that I must assume that its creation NEEDS to come at the expense of other things DE is working on. 

 

Their resources are limited, and spending them on creating a totally new game mode *must* come at the expense of the primary mode, whether that be in the form of slower content release or whatever. Ultimately I would prefer to see the core shooter gameplay polished to a mirror shine than see a flight simulator-esque element added.

In the end, all of which you have said in this thread don't matter to no one. If people want it, they get it and no one is asking to toss soccer balls. So it's really about what fun and what make sense though many things don't. Everything you mentioned all sounds boring especially compared to Archwing.

 

And rather take a wait and see approach, you are protesting against something that is new. 

 

thus far each update has been an improvement and adding the usual stuff like tilesets, weapons, warframes, etc. So something like Archwing is a welcome change. It should be long before something as much as a blast as Archwing comes along, until then, enjoy all the improvements. At least there is something else to do other than to grind the same non Archwing tilesets over and over again. Still have to grind with Archwing, but it's a brand new way to grind and a breath of fresh air so in the end, improvements to core gameplay can take a backseat this update.

 

It may or may not feel like Warframe, but in the end, who cares, it's a blast. Core gameplay elements can wait, they take far too long anyway.

 

So accept the Archwing and remember, the community knows best, but NOT everyone in the community does. And if they want Archwing or any other game changer, then they shall have it regardless of core game mechanics because this game is for them.

 

And the Dev team shall have their way with their vision for the game since it is their game.

[dashashou]

But again, I feel part of the reason it was added was because it's new. Stealth, AI improvements, and other facets of the core gameplay are indeed important, but they're still things that have largely already been seen. Players already attempt stealth runs in modes such as Rescue (or just for fun), AI improvements aren't immediately noticeable, and syndicates are supposed to fill the spot of end-game content. If you've been playing for a while, this is all stuff that would be appreciated, but I doubt it would immediately drag you back in like a new gamemode would.

 

I'll note that several players still think of the event introducing Survival as one of the best in Warframe's history.

 

cause jet pack sell well, and jet packs in space should sell  better , but it's way too unfinshed as it is 

[Jinryusai]

I don't claim that it's perfect, but I disagree in that DE isn't some multi-headed hydra that can go from doing one thing well to doing two things at the same level overnight. Archwing is a large enough departure from existing content that I must assume that its creation NEEDS to come at the expense of other things DE is working on. 

 

Their resources are limited, and spending them on creating a totally new game mode *must* come at the expense of the primary mode, whether that be in the form of slower content release or whatever. Ultimately I would prefer to see the core shooter gameplay polished to a mirror shine than see a flight simulator-esque element added.

And how do you know if their resources are limited? Did you ask them? They seem to have a XONE and PS4 division raking in a lot of cash, they can always hire more people. Did you notice the new faces and interns popping up in the forums?

 

They are hiring. They are expanding. They are getting bigger. So it's time to stop thinking they are small time developers and have limited resources. Look what happened with Minecraft developers.

 

At this point, you're perhaps thinking they shall be bought by Perfect World seeing as Mahjong was sold to Microsoft.

[Stormfrenzy]

To put it simply: Warframe now offers Archwing because it's a fun game mode that allows for a bit of real variation from the other game modes. It's something MORE to do which I have to say I enjoy greatly.

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

Wait. Wait wait wait wait wait...Didn't Archwing JUST come out on PC?  How can you call it a tumor or whine about how little content there is for a new mode when it JUST came out?  

 

Isn't that the point of this beta? For DE to make this game, to make new things, and have us players try it out for feedback?  I barely know anything about game design, but if there are 2 each of archwings, primary, secondary, and melee weapons, maybe those are the things they've had time to build and balance before giving to us?

 

At update 15.0 on PC (I don't even have Archwing yet since I'm on PS4), I'm thinking it's a wee bit premature to dismiss this entire segment of the game.  Sure, at update 15 AW isn't integrated into the rest of the "main" game, but maybe by update 20 we're going to have much more complex missions.  To think they're going to leave all the broken stuff broken while they put out new content is absurd and short-sighted.  You may not like the new mode, but I think you should have a little more faith in the developers before passing judgement on something that just came out...in a beta.

Edited October 27, 2014 by (PS4)IkariWarrior83

[traybong111]

While I agree with some points in the OP I don't necessarily think it's so foreign that it's comparable to adding handball into soccer.

 

I will admit, Archwing having its own mods and weapons is kind of annoying to me. Why can't each Archwing have its own weapon attached but one could still use existing guns? It's not a full-suit like Gundam, sort of like an augmentation, so this part really bothers me :(

 

It's not integrated well into pre-existing combat, yes, because it just came out, but think of what it would be like if it were, with more feedback and fleshing out! Warframe's own little Titanfall-esque air/ground battle hnnngggggg just thinking about it pumps my blood. DE please make it happen.