The Overkill Grineer.

[Shrak-aeon]

I believe that it is safe to say, that most of us have experienced what the newly buffed Grineer units can do. Be it on early to midgame, leveling frames, etc. The Grineer units have become something truly horrifying and I can't help but think, it may have been too much. They deal so much damage and add to that their nigh pin-point aim and the fact that almost every single Grineer Weapon is a hitscanner, these guys get out of control VERY rapidly.

 

Not only are the obvious heavy units a serious threat, but even some of the slightly less common members of the small-fry league have become more or less a plague on missions. (I am looking at you Seeker and Ballista.)

And hell, even the actual lancers and troopers themselves have had their damage flown to the very polluted skies of Ceres, Earth, etc. Even their durability seems to have gone up, while somewhat understandable, it is rather strange to see units in the void of the same level die with about a single shot of a Brakk (until they begin to scale up in level), while I've seen even a lancer eat two shots from about the same distance.

 

The rate at which their weapons proc slash and puncture while accompanied with their rather ridiculous damage is nothing short of mortifying, defense and mobile defense can be forgotten entirely unless you have a guaranteed way of melting through the swarms of grineer with a steady, almost endless stream of damage at your disposal. (Very unlikely as they -WILL- get you first.)

 

To name some of the true problems, though most likely not all of them:

 

Ordinary Missions.

 

- The Ballista: Have you seen what these girls can do now? Sheesh! The first mission I ran on Ceres after the patch kicked in, was with my Rhino. I agree that there was not much left of my Iron Skin, since I had ran through a couple of rooms beforehand. When I enter a rather large room, all I hear is a distinct firing sound, and suddenly the rest of my Iron Skin is down in a single shot and taking almost all of my shields. I died from the next hit. (Yes, you can call me a bad player as much as you want, it won't change the fact that these units have begun to deal simply stupid amounts of damage. I've tried other frames, and dodging won't make a difference, these women will almost always have a guaranteed hit on you, no matter how much you try to avoid it. Of course, such damage can't really be complained about due to the Ballista being a sniper, but we're talking about a sniper with -no- set-up time and it can shoot straight from the hip. Perhaps have the typical solution of the Ballista having a trailing laser sight that tries to lock onto you and if it has managed to stay locked onto a tenno for long enough, it is a guaranteed hit?

 

- The Seeker: Well now! My favourite of the bunch in the club of cloned men who are pumped full of steroids.

You'd think that the Seeker would do more damage with the rollers he deploys, but no. Instead the rollers are exactly the same, and the Seeker leans back, relaxes and almost one-shots every frame besides rhino that he can aim at. (Seriously! Make the rollers do damage! That's what the unit is supposed to do, cause hectic situations by being in hiding and sending an angry mob of pissed-off balls at you instead of murdering you with almost a single attack!)

 

- Lancer and Trooper: The "closer to a WMD than a typical grunt." These guys come in immense numbers as you've all seen, and so does their damage after the buff. With a ridiculous puncture and slash damage proc-rate, accompanied with their now nigh-overwhelming damage and with the eyes of a damn hawk, these guys make sure that any day against them, is VERY UNPLEASANT AND FILLED WITH PAIN!.

 

- The Heavies: You know; Heavy Gunner and Bros. The guys who now can sometimes eat a fully modded and forma'd Brakk clip from almost melee range and still laugh at you and claiming that it tickles. So far I've only seen the heavy gunner reach to insane amounts of damage with just about a second and a half of shooting at you. Bombards have gained a buff but their damage hasn't been raised too much from my experience with these missile-fanatics. Not sure about the Napalm, as I have not yet ran missions with them appearing.

 

- The New Guy... Ehm... Drahk Handler: Despite him being new, you can't really complain too much, and it is known for a fact that the ludicrous bugs that their disarming attacks contain will be looked at, but none-the-less! They still deserve a place on this list due to these said bugs. The damage they deal is something I have not yet experienced, most have died before they have been unable to fully attack me and the Drahks pose a fair breeze of challenge in some situations.

 

- The Commanders: I believe that the whopping three second stun is something we've all felt, and died for. I've seen someone describe it as giving the Grineer an "I win!" button and after many painful experiences, I have to say that these claims are sadly correct.

 

Archwing:

 

- The Hellion Dargyn: Yep, it had to be included, though once more we cannot truly complain too much since the Archwing -IS- still a -VERY- new gamemode. But you can already see people complaining about these guys on the forums, and I cannot really blame them. The Hellion Dargyn is propably the closest thing we have to living nightmares as gamers. These guys have immense damage, knockback (up? down?... It's space... Not sure which is the best to use here...) and their missiles are just... horrifyingly agile.

----------

 

 

The problem here, is simple enough. The Grineer just do too much damage, scaling over even the Void. Perhaps more utility than damage (And perhaps some cutting on the current steel-wall durability of the heavies) would be better for the Grineer. The faction is centered around the simple tactic of quantity vs quality (until you meet some of the heavies that is), but now they literally have added quality to the massive legions of Grineer troops. The most worrying part being the fact that the Grineer have such good aim combined with their hitscan weapons literally cannot be dodged, almost ever. From my own experience, Warframe has always given you the possibility of running missions solo, yet with added difficulty. However, the damage of the current Grineer can make even teamplay extremely painful.

I know that DE has to work with bugfixes for Archwing, constant balance issues, etc. Every company in the gaming industry does and one cannot demand too much. But please, this is a rather strong issue that should be looked into.

 

Have a pleasant day/evening reader! Cheers!

[Brimir]

Seekers are rather cheap at the moment.

 

They are like rapid-fire Ballistas.

[Shrak-aeon]

That they are indeed.

[W1ldfir3]

I'm actually making a straw poll about this issue now, I'll be posting it to the forums and subreddit in just a little while.

[Brimir]

Really though, the only Grineer unit I am seeing a potential issue with is the Seeker.

 

His Kraken is a burst-fire sniper rifle that hurts, proportionally, far too much.

[Somedude1000]

This s what happens when people who only play with maxed gear vs the grineer on mercury say "Grineer too easy" perhaps

 

Personally soloing them has been more chllenging but I haven't been able to try longer missions because anytime I play a long mission the host seems to crash, but buffing the grineer damage and aim is definitely going to be a future issue, mainly because it is going to encourage more people to  bring frames / spam abilities that insta-groundpound

 

 

By that I eman frames and abilities that blind / stop the enemies so quickly / much, that enemies dont even have time to react and we're simply shooting them while they're out cold

Edited October 30, 2014 by Somedude1000

[--FHDL--Bael]

bruh, use loki and all your troubles will be gone 

[Beef-DeathLegacy]

I think the Grineer changes might be a problem for Rambo, but honestly, I think we're being forced to adapt to a more vicious environment which is good IMO. I think of the sound of the Vulkar ominous and the Ballista being a sniper should only deal that much damage.

The seeker's damage adjustment is the one I disagree with. That damn Kraken doesn't even dish the tremendous damage that the seekers are dealing with every burst fire.

And oh yeah.

Have u seen how much damage the Detron guy of corpus deals? Hurts a lot when in close to mid range

[holdenagincourt]

It is great that they are like double to triple their standard level on the Earth excavation you have to play for Limbo, and that it's next to impossible to find a public group doing that mission.

[Brimir]

And oh yeah.

Have u seen how much damage the Detron guy of corpus deals? Hurts a lot when in close to mid range

 

But he is a shotgun user - he is utterly ineffective at long range: it is your own fault for going close-combat with a dude wielding a radioactive handcannon, and as such he is perfectly balanced. He only punishes you for making the mistake of going toe-to-toe with him.

[Beef-DeathLegacy]

But he is a shotgun user - he is utterly ineffective at long range: it is your own fault for going close-combat with a dude wielding a radioactive handcannon, and as such he is perfectly balanced. He only punishes you for making the mistake of going toe-to-toe with him.

I wasn't really complaining. I honestly think that it's an awesome addition or buff. I think corpus is so much weaker compared to grineer so this detron guy really kicks up their game by a bit.

[low1991]

AND....

to match up with grineer, infested should have annoying toxic (on the way...), Corpus srsly need overall faction buff

 

not jokking.

[Deviantis]

I think it's about time the Grineer removed the storm trooper gene. Kiste actually feels like a mobile defense instead of grineer whack-a-mole.

[Shrak-aeon]

I think it's about time the Grineer removed the storm trooper gene. Kiste actually feels like a mobile defense instead of grineer whack-a-mole.

While I agree that the Grineer before the patch should have been a bit more competent at aiming, the problem here is that they've truly removed ANY chance for them to miss. A Ballista can snipe you from mid leap at high-speeds, same goes for every single one of the units besides the Napalm, Bombard and Drahk Master.

 

The damage simply is far too great and their aim is far too perfect.

 

 

I think the Grineer changes might be a problem for Rambo, but honestly, I think we're being forced to adapt to a more vicious environment which is good IMO.

 

The problem here is that you cannot adapt to something that offers no counterplay. To have the possibility of adapting against something, means that the thing you are adapting to has something that you can use as an advantage against it. These guys literally perma-proc you with a constant stream of slash and puncture damage, with 100% accuracy WHILE having extreme damage, not to mention the fact that the range on most of the Grineer weapons turns almost every single one of those mobs into snipers.

 

Once again, I agree with the difficulty rising up but -this- type of a leap is just ridiculous, and before you say anything about Rhino or Frost: Iron Skin and Globe melt against the buffed units at later levels.

[Archistopheles]

Level 27 Grineer shredding my Frost like a Mag. Max health, max shields, max armor: Doesn't mean s***.

[Tr1ples1xer]

Warframes are supposed to be agile war machines, cowering behind cover is not WF.

[low1991]

Warframes are supposed to be agile war machines, cowering behind cover is not WF.

Which is why, our frame have abilities, when most of their units have none! 

Agile war machine aren't tanking war machine... 

[Archistopheles]

Warframes are supposed to be agile war machines, cowering behind cover is not WF.

Exactly. Enemies should have to overwhelm us, not headshotnoscope420MLPgetgudgetrekt. Agility means nothing when your enemy has hitscan + 100% accuracy.

[Liminal]

I haven't really noticed the buff to the ground Grineer (too much Archwing I guess), but I've been saying they are the most annoying faction since at least U12.

They have no counterplay and rely way too much on extremely effective CC. And Seeker Krakens have been overpowered for quite a while now.

Edited October 30, 2014 by The_Doc

[Brimir]

Which is why, our frame have abilities, when most of their units have none! 

 

Except that Eximus enemies changed that.

[Liminal]

Except that Eximus enemies changed that.

"The powers of the warframe. Impossible to understand, unimaginably strong."

The Arctic Crewman shows up: "Hey guys, I got this shield around me that's just like Frost's. Ain't that cool?"

 

I hate Exiumus enemies because of this :I

Edited October 30, 2014 by The_Doc

[Tr1ples1xer]

Which is why, our frame have abilities, when most of their units have none! 

Agile war machine aren't tanking war machine... 

They have no abbilities because they outnumber us 100:1, thank FSM they don't have abbilities on top of 100% accuracy hitscan weapons. Every frame should feel like a god against anything especially when you are all maxed, if you don't like that go play something else.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Tr1ples1xer

[Brimir]

"The powers of the warframe. Impossible to understand, imaginably strong."

The Arctic Crewman shows up: "Hey guys, I got this shield around me that's just like Frost's. Ain't that cool?"

 

I hate Exiumus enemies because of this :I

 

An improved version of Frost's Snowglobe nonetheless - its all mobile and crap!

[R34LM]

Everyone's playstyle is different. Ceres is supposed to be hard, but, currenty, it isn't so much hard as it is cheap. I will not go into a mission without using Loki Invis or Ash Spamstorm (that scales well into late game).

 

Four things are happening that really should not be happening at once.

 

1. They do high damage.

 

2. They have near perfect accuracy, even at long range.

 

3. They have good proc chances and stun locks.

 

4. There are 30 of them in one cramped space, usually.

 

You can cover, if you'd like, but if you move an inch out of cover, you're gonna get hit. Running around isn't going to help either, thanks to their numbers and their accuracy. Finally, there is only a select number of frames that can really handle this treatment, which limits variety.

 

People can say "just leave it as it is". I have to ask, what tactic are you using and are you changing things up? You can certainy stick to one tactic the entire time, but it gets boring and routine. When someone changes the tactic, you die. No variety.

 

EDIT: On the topic of seekers: if I can't mod my Kraken to do the same thing as his, then something is wrong. If it does more damage than a napalm and in quicker time, then something is wrong. If an explosion from his roller does less damage that the bullet that thing spits out, then something is wrong. Devs NNNNEEEEEEED to FIX it.

Edited October 30, 2014 by R34LM

[Egg_Chen]

I am happy with the changes, have enjoyed fighting the Grinner much more, but...

I accept that the difficulty is not something easily counteracted when they proc, hitscan, swarm, etc.

 

I would love to see a mechanic where their accuracy diminishes if you are on the move.

Just Cause 2 had a similar mechanic, stand in place and shoot, they will locate and shoot you quickly.

Relocate, move around, use the environment, and they were less accurate.

 

I'd like the agile nature of Warframes to be our counter, not a nerf to the enemy.

Make the players play better.

 

I'm not saying "git gud", I'm saying make us use rolls, slides and jumps to survive.

If I sprint round a corner and slide past a group of Grineer they should be taking a second to turn and locate me again.

If I am rolling I should take less incoming fire, and sliding should reduce Grineer accuracy (I'm a smaller fast moving target).

 

^ This is why I have always liked fighting Corpus, projectile weapons simulate what I want in a different way.

Against Corpus movement can remove a massive chunk of the threat.