Opticor Feedback And Suggested Tweaks

[Renegade343]

Hello all, 

 

This thread will be detailing some feedback about the Opticor, and suggested tweaks to make it be a more solid laser cannon. The content is below: 

 

The Opticor is a Corpus laser cannon, that has very high damage per shot, offset by its very low fire rate (and needing to aim to gain the maximum damage). While it is a rather nice laser cannon to add into players' Arsenals, both for fun or wiping out enemies to the point that their atoms are vaporised (or ionised), as well as being a rather hefty and strong alternative to the snipers, it does have a few things to be criticised: 

 

1. No Punch-Through for a laser cannon (well, the laser is going to have quite a high intensity [and thus transfer lots of heat to burn through things]). 

2. If Punch-Through mods are equipped, there is no AoE explosion (after all, the laser would have vaporised the enemy part [or the spot] that is shot, then build up the gases to cause an explosion [due to heat from laser + expansion of gases]). 

3. Having Rifle Ammo (i.e.: Needing to pick up ammo), which makes it both nice and a bit overpowered to use at times (but leaning on the overpowered side just a tiny bit) (and not to mention that for a laser cannon in the [unknown] future, having battery packs to fire off a rather strong laser feels a bit off). 

 

And so, the suggestion to make the Opticor be a more solid laser cannon is as thus: 

 

- Opticor now has regenerating ammo (to a maximum of 20), meaning there is no need to pick up ammo whatsoever (although that regenerating ammo mechanic could be expanded to some Generation 1 Energy Clan Tech weapons [where Generation 1 = Weapons before U12]). 

 

- Charge time now changes to 3 ammo per second (meaning for the default magazine size, it takes 6.67 seconds to charge all 20 ammo).  

 

- Like the Angstrum, the Opticor now has the charge function, meaning at least one shot must be charged in order to fire. Once the Opticor has its full magazine charged, it will shoot it off (like the Opticor now when it is fully charged). In the UI, while charging, the ammo count will go down, until it goes to 0, in which the Opticor will fire instantly.

 

- After firing off a shot, there will be a 0.25s delay, then ammo starts to regenerate at 1.5 ammo per second. 

 

- Charging ammo will have the shot's damage increased by 5% per ammo charged (meaning charging 1 shot will have 105% damage, 2 shots have 110% damage, 3 shots have 115% damage etc.), as well as having the shot increase its innate Punch Through by 0.1m per ammo charged (meaning charging 1 shot will have 0.1m Punch Through, 2 shots have 0.2m Punch Through etc.). 

 

- At the point that the laser beam hits something (terrain or enemies) (entry point only), there will be an AoE explosion at that point. 

 

- The Opticor's barrel will glow brighter (in a gradual way) for each additional ammo charged (as a visual sign [and for PVP balance]). 

 

Please discuss civilly in this thread as to whether the suggested tweaks for the Opticor would be appropriate. 

 

Renegade343

Edited November 6, 2014 by Renegade343

[Kasumi-]

I like your suggestions. Although, seeing your suggestion about the ammo (which I do like), I was reminded of what DE did to the Ogris/Penta/etc. I hope they don't do the same thing with the Opticor.

 

I really like that idea of charging the shot adding partial punch through. If we had that then I could use another mod in place of Shred.

[Kinperor]

I don't think the ammo change is appropriate. 

 

I'm on the verge of finishing my fourth star on the Opticor, and I don't really see any reason to give the Opticor ammo regeneration. I also prefer the charging to be on a per-bullet basis. 

 

I am torn on the AOE. The lack of AOE on direct shot make the weapon much more interesting in that you have this permanent sense of "Do I shoot ONE mob for massive damage or do I try to kill both him and his pal". The mechanic of using the Opticor as is is much more interesting than say the Ogris, at least to me. On the other hand, I do feel it isn't consistent and that a weapon of this caliber should have innate punch through, but the issue is the weapon would go from "almost OP" to outright broken. 

[Kasumi-]

I don't think the ammo change is appropriate. 

 

I'm on the verge of finishing my fourth star on the Opticor, and I don't really see any reason to give the Opticor ammo regeneration. I also prefer the charging to be on a per-bullet basis. 

 

I am torn on the AOE. The lack of AOE on direct shot make the weapon much more interesting in that you have this permanent sense of "Do I shoot ONE mob for massive damage or do I try to kill both him and his pal". The mechanic of using the Opticor as is is much more interesting than say the Ogris, at least to me. On the other hand, I do feel it isn't consistent and that a weapon of this caliber should have innate punch through, but the issue is the weapon would go from "almost OP" to outright broken. 

 

I don't see how innate punch through would make the weapon overly OP, since we can already put Shred/Metal Auger on it and give it punch through.

[Twilight5007]

Honestly the only thing I would like to see fixed is the aoe mechanic. It seems to use line of sight to calculate what gets hit by the aoe and what doesn't which when shot into an enemy causes the aoe to be completely nullified by the model of the target blocking all line of sight out of it. Besides that it's a really cool weapon that you can use to pick off enemies from afar with low aoe damage, while still giving you a means to defend yourself up close by having the aoe ramp up the closer the target is to you.

[Kinperor]

I don't see how innate punch through would make the weapon overly OP, since we can already put Shred/Metal Auger on it and give it punch through.

 

It would make it broken because you wouldn't need these two mods anymore and could put either more ROF or more damage. 

 

I've just put my fifth star on Opticor, and I can tell you the weapon becomes scary when Shred is applied with damage. 

[Renegade343]

It would make it broken because you wouldn't need these two mods anymore and could put either more ROF or more damage. 

 

I've just put my fifth star on Opticor, and I can tell you the weapon becomes scary when Shred is applied with damage. 

Then again, the Opticor does have a rather large cost to it (20 Gallium + Apparent decrease in drop rate of Gallium). 

[Kasumi-]

It would make it broken because you wouldn't need these two mods anymore and could put either more ROF or more damage. 

 

I've just put my fifth star on Opticor, and I can tell you the weapon becomes scary when Shred is applied with damage. 

Oh, right.

 

Imagine the damage though. Those Grineer would go running back to their cloning vats. Or not, because they just got Opticor'd.

[Renegade343]

It would make it broken because you wouldn't need these two mods anymore and could put either more ROF or more damage. 

 

I've just put my fifth star on Opticor, and I can tell you the weapon becomes scary when Shred is applied with damage. 

Actually, something just popped into my head to balance out the combination of AoE and innate Punch-Through: 

 

Diminishing radius on AoE per successive enemy (or terrain) hit (meaning if a laser beam hits through three things, the first thing it hits has an AoE radius of x meters, then the second thing has an AoE radius of 0.5x meters, and the third thing has an AoE radius of 0.25x meters). 

[Kinperor]

Then again, the Opticor does have a rather large cost to it (20 Gallium + Apparent decrease in drop rate of Gallium). 

 

Well I haven't really noticed the cost because of my stockpiles, but I am satisfied with what I have right now. 

 

Oh, right.

 

Imagine the damage though. Those Grineer would go running back to their cloning vats. Or not, because they just got Opticor'd.

 

That's the thing, the damage would be monstrous. It actually already is monstrous, truth be told. 

 

Actually, something just popped into my head to balance out the combination of AoE and innate Punch-Through: 

 

Diminishing radius on AoE per successive enemy (or terrain) hit (meaning if a laser beam hits through three things, the first thing it hits has an AoE radius of x meters, then the second thing has an AoE radius of 0.5x meters, and the third thing has an AoE radius of 0.25x meters). 

 

It could work, I guess, but the number seems harsh for the size of the AOE. It would still be pretty scary because accurate shots would allow you to deal damage twice per bullet to the same enemy OR gore many enemies at once. 

[Renegade343]

It could work, I guess, but the number seems harsh for the size of the AOE. It would still be pretty scary because accurate shots would allow you to deal damage twice per bullet to the same enemy OR gore many enemies at once. 

Then again, you do have to: 

 

1. Get the enemies to line up straight (bit of a difficult task without a Loki, but even so, the enemies swarm, not line up patiently one-by-one to be killed). 

2. Have an accurate enough aim to shoot through the conga line of enemies you just created. 

[Llyssa]

Okay, going to trot this out:

 

1. Your idea isn't horrible.

2. I love my opticor, and we're probably getting married next fall. I think I can wrangle you an invite if you're interested. Formal attire will be required.

3. It would be much better to suggest your idea as a new, different gun than to suggest sweet opticor be mutilated to create it.

 

 

EDIT:

4. The AoE *does* occur, even with punch through! <3

5. RSVPs can be made either here or in-game, but be careful, seating is limited, and security credentials may be required.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Llyssa

[Renegade343]

3. It would be much better to suggest your idea as a new, different gun than to suggest sweet opticor be mutilated to create it.

Thing is, the Opticor feels like someone that you happen to fall in love with, but end up finding out that the reason to love them was somewhat gone during the wedding (i.e.: Slightly disappointing due to some missed features that could make it excellent). 

 

4. The AoE *does* occur, even with punch through! <3

But rather unreliable, because once the beam hits something at an angle (or something messes up the beam), then no more AoE (and hitting through the ground also equals no AoE). 

[Llyssa]

Thing is, the Opticor feels like someone that you happen to fall in love with, but end up finding out that the reason to love them was somewhat gone during the wedding (i.e.: Slightly disappointing due to some missed features that could make it excellent). 

 

But rather unreliable, because once the beam hits something at an angle (or something messes up the beam), then no more AoE (and hitting through the ground also equals no AoE). 

...but your variation sounds like a rather heavy-handed nerf if applied straight-up. The idea has merits of its own, and would be an interesting weapon, but would play significantly different than the opticor does.

 

Considering the wide variety of bullet-based guns we have(grakata, TWO grakata, latron+variants, soma, karak, burston, braton....just to name a few!), I think the game can stand to have more than one charge laser cannon.

[Renegade343]

...but your variation sounds like a rather heavy-handed nerf if applied straight-up. The idea has merits of its own, and would be an interesting weapon, but would play significantly different than the opticor does.

But really, a laser cannon designed to wipe out a living being with one hit cannot slice through a rather thin sheet of metal (i.e.: Metal plating on Grineer railings) for some arbitrary reason? 

 

I mean, the heat generated by the laser itself would melt through the metal and continue on for a bit before the beam dissipates. If we are going to design another laser cannon, at least have the Opticor get a bit of innate Punch-Through, just to make it feel a bit more like a laser cannon.

[Celestias]

So I'm going to be that guy...

 

The Opticor is fine as is. It's supposed to be the Nuke'em to Hell with one shot Lazor death beam. The idea you have would in all likelihood be much better off for the Archwing Opticor version which no doubt there will be.

 

It's unparalleled damage with a lot of "know-how" requirements and does not let you cheese out and hold the charge till you find the "sweet shot".

 

Opticarnage 4 Life

[Jinryusai]

As long as there is an explosion per enemy it goes through and intensify the explosion so it matches the explosion radius.

[GhostSwordsman]

-much snip-

 

- Like the Angstrum, the Opticor now has the charge function, meaning at least one shot must be charged in order to fire. Once the Opticor has its full magazine charged, it will shoot it off (like the Opticor now when it is fully charged). In the UI, while charging, the ammo count will go down, until it goes to 0, in which the Opticor will fire instantly.

 

-snip-

 

- Charging ammo will have the shot's damage increased by 5% per ammo charged (meaning charging 1 shot will have 105% damage, 2 shots have 110% damage, 3 shots have 115% damage etc.), as well as having the shot increase its innate Punch Through by 0.1m per ammo charged (meaning charging 1 shot will have 0.1m Punch Through, 2 shots have 0.2m Punch Through etc.). 

 

- At the point that the laser beam hits something (terrain or enemies) (entry point only), there will be an AoE explosion at that point.

 

- The Opticor's barrel will glow brighter (in a gradual way) for each additional ammo charged (as a visual sign [and for PVP balance]). 

I really like these ideas. It would make it feel even more powerful (if that's even possible at this point) and I think it would make the opticor a more "proper" laser cannon. And, to make the AoE effect you suggest more powerful, I'd like to see the actual beam do damage in a wider radius as it's traveling to the target. Right now I think it feels too narrow for a laser cannon. I just put up a thread here that goes more into detail about that.

 

I do have one question though. Would the bonus damage from the overcharging stop at 125% or would it continue to increase if a player has modded their opticor to hold 6 or 8 shots?

[Renegade343]

I do have one question though. Would the bonus damage from the overcharging stop at 125% or would it continue to increase if a player has modded their opticor to hold 6 or 8 shots?

As it was said in the suggestion, each additional charged ammo increases the shots damage by 5%, adding per shot, meaning an Opticor with 6 ammo will have the shot deal 130% of the original damage (8 shots have 140% of the original damage). 

[GhostSwordsman]

As it was said in the suggestion, each additional charged ammo increases the shots damage by 5%, adding per shot, meaning an Opticor with 6 ammo will have the shot deal 130% of the original damage (8 shots have 140% of the original damage). 

Hmm. That's actually a really good mechanic for combating scaling enemies without throwing in more raw/elemental damage in the build. Very clever b(^_^)d.

[DSpite]

But really, a laser cannon designed to wipe out a living being with one hit cannot slice through a rather thin sheet of metal (i.e.: Metal plating on Grineer railings) for some arbitrary reason? 

 

I mean, the heat generated by the laser itself would melt through the metal and continue on for a bit before the beam dissipates. If we are going to design another laser cannon, at least have the Opticor get a bit of innate Punch-Through, just to make it feel a bit more like a laser cannon.

 

Please. Stop.

 

We are balancing ones and zeros, in order to make the game more playable or at least make it worthwhile to have a have a decent reason to try out every weapon in the game.

 

You always end up with "it would make more sense to do X because such a weapon would ...". No, actually, because then logically, my Glaive would never come back to me, especially when I lob it into a closed room and then shut the door, or instead, should be smart enough not to explode in my hands after illogically bouncing just once against a flat wall, or you might as well start listing reasons as to why my multiple Forma Flux Rifle has a beam that magically stops 25 meters out, while your Opticor can kill all the way to the moon.

 

Balance is always for the sake of making something sit nicely among similar things, not because of how an impossible weapon "should" behave on "personal logic".

[Renegade343]

You always end up with "it would make more sense to do X because such a weapon would ...". No, actually, because then logically, my Glaive would never come back to me, especially when I lob it into a closed room and then shut the door, or instead, should be smart enough not to explode in my hands after illogically bouncing just once against a flat wall, or you might as well start listing reasons as to why my multiple Forma Flux Rifle has a beam that magically stops 25 meters out, while your Opticor can kill all the way to the moon.

Glaive: Tracking beacon that homes back to the thrower (barring closed doors, of course) (and for explosions, you did apply [i presume] Void energy to the Glaive).

 

Flux Rifle: Probably something akin to the technology that allows lightsabers to have a fixed length (not that it would be possible with the current technology we have [or maybe even impossible due to the laws of physics in play]). Then again, there is that question: Why do the Tenno not remove that restraint?

 

Actually, when we think about it, why would laser weapons not have Punch Through (the ones that are meant to kill something)? At least that would make something nice for laser continuous weapons overall. 

[Celestias]

There's one problem with that suggestion.

 

DE fixed its charge mechanic dealing the same damage no matter the charge. Max charge currently = 200% of the damage.. your effectively asking for a nerf and yet another down side to the already sorted list.

[Renegade343]

DE fixed its charge mechanic dealing the same damage no matter the charge. Max charge currently = 200% of the damage.. your effectively asking for a nerf and yet another down side to the already sorted list.

Half charge = 100% damage. Still working in that front. 

 

Anyways, I have another idea. 

[Celestias]

nope.. nope... stop the ideas mate. These are grand ideas but it could go into drawing up your own weapon suggestion and dropping that into the Fan Art section complete with some shiny pics and descriptions.

 

The only idea that doesn't seem to further add down sides, chop the players balls further for using the Opticor or give it mechanics that would ultimately allow players to mod it for damage only  would be a visual enhancement of the lasor effect and the explosion. It was released as a balanced gun. Lets keep it that way eh?