New Infested Lore. So Apparently They Just Came Out Of Nowhere. It Doesnt Work.

[Mak_Gohae]

Basically Halo.

 

I made fun a long time ago using this but it's now becoming true.

The combat skin, warframes, the ancilla,Lotus, and the space zombies Flood, the Infested. 

And now that the Infested are some old stuff that was let out by accident they really look like the Flood.

[NevanChambers]

I made fun a long time ago using this but it's now becoming true.

The combat skin, warframes, the ancilla,Lotus, and the space zombies Flood, the Infested. 

And now that the Infested are some old stuff that was let out by accident they really look like the Flood.

LoL you whippersnappers sure are cute. Halo pulled all that stuff from older source material, which pulled its stuff from still older source material I'm not old enough to remember either.

Like my dad used to tell me. "The world didn't start when you took notice of it"

[Mak_Gohae]

LoL you whippersnappers sure are cute. Halo pulled all that stuff from older source material, which pulled its stuff from still older source material I'm not old enough to remember either.

Like my dad used to tell me. "The world didn't start when you took notice of it"

 

Never made the claim Halo was the start, in fact, there is a post here where i talk about this.

One of my favorite books is Starship Troopers, a book that a lot of these space marine books take their inspiration from.

I know that Halo is not the source, the point that this game is becoming like Halo is that Halo is some generic trope-filled thing.

That's what i am actually saying.

 

I came into this game because of the guyver-looking suits with the ninja theme and the more the game goes on the less and less it looks like that.

And this was one major change that affects the whole story.

[Ionus]

But i do not like the fact that they now exist* in the solar system because of the Grineer lab accident.

Previously they were just part of the solar system, something always there.... which probably explains why there are more corpus infested than anything else. Because they are the one that control the rails and travel around more.

 

That's you're assumption. No explanation to their active status was ever given.

[Mak_Gohae]

That's you're assumption. No explanation to their active status was ever given.

 

They are a weapon used to during the Old War.

That has been the explanation since forever.... how can you say that there their status has never been explained?

[Ionus]

They are a weapon used to during the Old War.

That has been the explanation since forever.... how can you say that there their status has never been explained?

 

In-game Lore Description:

 

Its origins are uncertain but there is historical evidence of a similar outbreak before The Collapse.

 

This means that the outbreak we have now is the second. This was caused by Grineer experimentation. It changes nothing about their lore except clear up ambiguities.

[Mak_Gohae]

In-game Lore Description:

 

Its origins are uncertain but there is historical evidence of a similar outbreak before The Collapse.

 

This means that the outbreak we have now is the second. This was caused by Grineer experimentation. It changes nothing about their lore except clear up ambiguities.

 

And would you mind explaining why you ignore the Golem lore that has been in the game since he was added?

[Tiqalicious]

I honestly don't know at this point how to phrase any of this to make you understand it. You're complaining that the new quest has "changed the lore of the infested and made them grineer creations" then when someone points out to you that no, the old lore still stands and they are NOT grineer creations you get angry and go "WHEN DID I EVER SAY THEY WERE?"

This entire thread is a waste of everyones time and you should honestly just go sit in a corner for a while and think about what you're doing.


For the record I'm going to try and spell it out to you one more time and then I'm washing my hands of this entire ridiculous nonsense.

OROKIN MAKE SCARY INFESTED MONSTERS.

 

OROKIN TRY TO CONTAIN SCARY INFESTED MONSTERS IN VOID AFTER THEY REALISE THEY DON'T NEED THEM.

GRINEER GO LOOKING FOR OROKIN TECHNOLOGY.

GRINEER START POKING AROUND IN THE VOID AS WELL AS RAIDING DERELICTS.

GRINEER BRING BACK SCARY INFESTED MONSTERS TO EXPERIMENT ON AND USE AS WEAPON.

TENNO GO HUNTING DOWN GRINEER AND HAPPEN TO SEE INFESTED BREAK OUT OF GRINEER CONTAINMENT.
 

LOTUS GOES "OH SNAP"

 

LOTUS SAYS "TENNO, YOU MUST KILL THE INFESTED"

TENNO TRY TO KILL ALL THE INFESTED, BUT GRINEER CONTINUE EXPERIMENTING ON INFESTED ELSEWHERE BECAUSE THEY'RE DESPERATE AND DON'T CARE THAT THEY CAN'T ADEQUATELY CONTROL THEM.

Now please for the love of god, learn some reading comprehension so we can avoid ever having to go through this ridiculous nonsense with you again in the future when DE decides to spruce up some old lore.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Tiqalicious

[Mak_Gohae]

I honestly don't know at this point, which way to phrase any of this to make you understand it. You're complaining that the new quest has "changed the lore of the infested and make them grineer creations" then when someone points out to you that no, the old lore still stands and they are NOT grineer creations you get angry and go "WHEN DID I EVER SAY THEY WERE?"

 

 

So i should not question when some one incorrectly attributes something to my posts?

That's strange.

 

 

For the record I'm going to try and spell it out to you one more time and then I'm washing my hands of this entire ridiculous nonsense.

1-OROKIN MAKE SCARY INFESTED MONSTERS.

 

2-OROKIN TRY TO CONTAIN SCARY INFESTED MONSTERS IN VOID AFTER THEY REALISE THEY DON'T NEED THEM.

 

 

1- Actually... at this point we dont know who created them, technically. Since it isnt directly stated as before.

 

2- Where did you get this info? The Infested have always been in normal space.

 

 

Now please for the love of god, learn some reading comprehension so we can avoid ever having to go through this ridiculous nonsense with you again in the future when DE decides to spruce up some old lore.

 

Dont really see what point you attempted to make.

 

Anyway it is a fact that the Infested lore was changed and it was changed in a goofy way because it ignores all the tech in-games that uses infested resources. And since we are still in beta.... they have the ability to change this easily. I mean.... they just changed Nova and made her into a prime so why not?

[Mak_Gohae]

Nothing that's been said about the infested has been changed. That the grineer rediscovered them in the modern era doesn't negate a single bit that we knew about them. What actually happened is that people made a bunch of assumptions based on nothing then found out they were wrong.

 

There werent any assumptions.

The Infested have existed since the Orokin left on their ships which are now known as the derelicts. And from there is where they probably launched they invasion attacks and took over places in the solar system. And the fact that they always been around answers why there are technologies that use infested resources. This has been a norm in this game from the start.

 

Now that all gets thrown out and we are supposed to believe that this is the first time the Infested have been seen since the Old War.

[likeitsillegal]

The Orokin probably did not create the Technocyte virus, especially if we're working off of Dark Sector lore here. However they definitely utilized it for different purposes, such as the creation of Lephantis and the Tenno. So the technicality that they didn't create the virus or infested is sort of moot. 

 

Also to go back to the OP, life force does not necessarily equate to a soul. Though I think the concept of whatever each individual infested might have been being trapped inside that monstrous husk is a kind of tragic, horrifying twist on the Infested as a whole. Hell, you kind of see it with Mutalist Alad V.

[Mak_Gohae]

The Orokin probably did not create the Technocyte virus, especially if we're working off of Dark Sector lore here. However they definitely utilized it for different purposes, such as the creation of Lephantis and the Tenno. So the technicality that they didn't create the virus or infested is sort of moot. 

 

Also to go back to the OP, life force does not necessarily equate to a soul. Though I think the concept of whatever each individual infested might have been being trapped inside that monstrous husk is a kind of tragic, horrifying twist on the Infested as a whole. Hell, you kind of see it with Mutalist Alad V.

 

The story is so messed up there is no point bringing up DS.

 

And i always thought the life force meant a soul. I mean, it sounds like a hippie version of saying soul without getting religious.

[Phyrosite]

I dont know if its been said before but the game is still in open beta, so story elements and lore are still subject to change. That being said, it is still somewhat strange for the story to just suddenly change like that.

[Omnimorph]

 

Dont really see what point you attempted to make.

 

Anyway it is a fact that the Infested lore was changed and it was changed in a goofy way because it ignores all the tech in-games that uses infested resources. And since we are still in beta.... they have the ability to change this easily. I mean.... they just changed Nova and made her into a prime so why not?

 

Sorry to say, but it seems like you aren't even trying to understand his point, even though it's exactly the same point others have been making again and again.

 

There are two timelines at work here:-

 

1) The timeline of you as a player being introduced to lore as the game is being developed.

 

2) The timeline of the actual story being told.

 

For you as a player, yes, the Infested have "always been around" in the game, but that's simply because you started the game earlier and the devs are only now backfilling story for new players.

 

In the story, the Infested have "always been around", in the sense that they are an ancient threat (they were a threat in the story's past), and known to the Lotus historically, but they haven't "always been around" in the sense of being present to NPC people living in the virtual world, for a long time.  The Grineer "awaken" that presence.

 

You, when you started playing WF hit the ground running with the Infested being a present threat in the game world. 

 

All that's happened is that some story has been introduced to new players that gives them a context for the rest of the content (which you already know and have played through, which has the Infested as "always around").

 

To put all this another way: for a new player, they will first encounter the Infested as an ancient menace, that the Grineer have re-awakened, and this explains the amounts of Infested that they're going to encounter as they progress through the game.  You, as an older player, didn't have that backstory, the presence of the Infested (their return) in the game world was simply unexplained.  Now it's been explained. It's really quite simple.

 

(Side-note: re. the technocyte thing, I thought it was nano/bio-technology invented by humans, and it's a great irony that the Orokin use it.  Why?  Because it protects some humans from the Void, those who survive the Void on account of the technocyte virus becoming Tenno.  Infestation is the "adverse" reaction to the technocyte virus - no doubt manipulated, first by the Orokin, then other sinister interests - becoming a Tenno is the "lucky" reaction to the technocyte virus, and enables "magic" powers from the Void to be added to the high tech toughness, agility, etc., of the Warframe, as well as enabling integration with the Warframe, as originally per the first Warframe with whatshisname.  It's a riff on Nietzsche's "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger".)

Edited December 7, 2014 by Omnimorph

[SilentMobius]

The story is so messed up there is no point bringing up DS.

 

And i always thought the life force meant a soul. I mean, it sounds like a hippie version of saying soul without getting religious.

 

Funny how you have your view on how the story works and in that view the story is messed up. Whereas there are IMHO quite fine and logical interpretations that result in a completely consistent story, yet you just ignore them.

 

IMHO if you think the story is "Messed up" then perhaps the flaw is in your assumptions rather than the story.

 

And yes, "Life force" is frequently used to simply mean the bio-electric energy that powers biological processes, it needs no spiritual overtones.

Edited December 7, 2014 by SilentMobius

[SilentMobius]

(Side-note: re. the technocyte thing, I thought it was nano/bio-technology invented by humans, and it's a great irony that the Orokin use it.  Why?  Because it protects some humans from the Void, those who survive the Void on account of the technocyte virus becoming Tenno.  Infestation is the "adverse" reaction to the technocyte virus - no doubt manipulated, first by the Orokin, then other sinister interests - becoming a Tenno is the "lucky" reaction to the technocyte virus, and enables "magic" powers from the Void to be added to the high tech toughness, agility, etc., of the Warframe)

 

There is no tangible connection between the Warframe era Tenno and the Technocyte virus yet. The Warframes are made of that material, but so are a lot of things and none of these imply or require the users to be infected. 

 

Tenno "magic" powers come from Warframe technology, powered by the Void-energy the Tenno have due to their exposure to the Void. Nothing in the codex information we currently have implies Tenno infection.

 

Given the information we currently have the default (minimum assumption) version we have is thus:

 

1. Tenno have been exposed to the void, this gives them access to "Void Energy"

2. Warframes contain Technocyte material

3. Warframes powers are based on technology that is powered and driven by Tenno using their "Void Energy"

4. Some of the Void-exposed can express some limited abilities using their Void Energy without a Warframe. Analysis of these abilities may have lead to the technology used in some of the Warframes.

5. Some of the Warframe abilities may have been engineered or discovered in technocyte creatures that became the basis of some Warframes

6. Hayden Tenno was not the pilot of the First Excalibur Warframe, He was the "First Tenno" in the same way Jesus was the "First Christian"

8. Morphics and by extension Forma are/were refined from technocyte material.

Edited December 7, 2014 by SilentMobius

[Omnimorph]

There is no tangible connection between the Warframe era Tenno and the Technocyte virus yet. The Warframes are made of that material, but so are a lot of things and none of these imply or require the users to be infected. 

 

Tenno "magic" powers come from Warframe technology, powered by the Void-energy the Tenno have due to their exposure to the Void. Nothing in the codex information we currently have implies Tenno infection.

 

Given the information we currently have the default (minimum assumption) version we have is thus:

 

1. Tenno have been exposed to the void, this gives them access to "Void Energy"

2. Warframes contain Technocyte material

3. Warframes powers are based on technology that is powered and driven by Tenno using their "Void Energy"

4. Some of the Void-exposed can express some limited abilities using their Void Energy without a Warframe. Analysis of these abilities may have lead to the technology used in some of the Warframes.

5. Some of the Warframe abilities may have been engineered or discovered in technocyte creatures that became the basis of some Warframes

6. Hayden Tenno was not the pilot of the First Excalibur Warframe, He was the "First Tenno" in the same way Jesus was the "First Christian"

8. Morphics and by extension Forma are/were refined from technocyte material.

 

I think that's a decent summary of a default minimum assumption. 

 

But I also think the Dark Sector connections and the Lephantis stuff do lend credence to the notion that Tenno are infected by the same nano/bio-tech "virus" the Infected are infected by. 

 

And the reason I like that is the irony.

 

I think the reason you don't like this idea is because it seems to posit a "double origin" for the Tenno abilities.  But I don't see it that way, I see the infection as having nothing to do with the Void powers per se - their source is certainly the Void alone, and the "affliction" of the Void (which gives the powers) is definitely something completely different from Technocyte infection; plus also "affliction" is probably meant in a more psychological sense.  But I think being infected with theTechnocyte virus is what enabled some Orokin to survive the Void (as well as enablilng suit interfacing with stuff derived from the same material).

 

And that's the irony.  Something from Earth's distant past, possibly the cause of a great calamity, possibly what led to a diaspora from Earth, the survivors of which eventually became the Orokin empire (no doubt descended after many millennia from humans with some Japanese influence, but very distantly - shades of EVE Online's lore here) which has been experimented with by the Orokin in a desperate attempt to counter the Sentients, eventually leads to beating the Sentients (and then, double irony, eventually to the downfall of the Empire).  Failed experiments lead to Infected (which could also be viewed as a last ditch weapon if the Tenno fail), successful infection leaves the patient both relatively sane, still relatively human, AND somehow able to confront the Void and live, and even return with superpowers (no doubt this was discovered accidentally through mis-jumps, and later becomes something done deliberately to create Tenno).

 

The use of something from Earth's distant past is supported by the way the term "Tenno" seems at first to be a term of denigration or abuse to the Orikin.  Maybe that's connected with Hayden Tenno (a figure from the dim, distant past, who might be viewed as having been connected to the hypothesized calamity that befell Earth after the events of Dark Sector).  But the term gets "rehabilitated" as noble term after the Tenno win against the Sentients.

 

Another possibility is that after the hypothesized "calamity" there were still survivors who lived and survived with the infection, but they and their descendants were pariahs or lepers in Orokin culture for millennia, and called "Tenno", after Hayden Tenno (i.e. a term of opprobrium).  And now (millennia later, at the time of Sentient incursion) some of those survived mis-jumps and came back with Void powers, etc.  This not only led to Tenno as we know them, but also piqued Orokin interest to further experiment with the virus, and create the Infected as a last-ditch weapon should the Tenno fail.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Omnimorph

[Mak_Gohae]

I dont know if its been said before but the game is still in open beta, so story elements and lore are still subject to change. That being said, it is still somewhat strange for the story to just suddenly change like that.

 

Yeah, and im giving feedback on this change.

And the feedback in that this new story destroys a lot of stuff currently in game.

So as they go forward, they need a major rewrite because this new quests essentially restarts the whole game story. Plus it also affects gameplay.

[Aimop95]

I've read through all 6 pages and I don't see the problem. If a new player comes into the game, it makes complete sense.

[vaugahn]

Yes, this is what i have been saying from the start.

But i do not like the fact that they now exist* in the solar system because of the Grineer lab accident.

Previously they were just part of the solar system, something always there.... which probably explains why there are more corpus infested than anything else. Because they are the one that control the rails and travel around more. The probably spend more time meeting them.

 

*this word has more than one meaning.

 

There are multiple meanings of the word exist, and you are using the wrong one.

 

The infested have existed (read, been hanging around) since the fall of the Orokin. However, all diseases need a vector. We've known since the infested were first released that this is a recent outbreak of them, not an ongoing one. We've always known that the infested used the Grineer as a vector, and it's also been known that the Grineer have been experimenting with infested. Now we've just put two and two together, and it's confirmed that the Grineer are the vector for the resurgence of the infested. 

 

And the feedback in that this new story destroys a lot of stuff currently in game.

So as they go forward, they need a major rewrite because this new quests essentially restarts the whole game story. Plus it also affects gameplay.

 

No it doesn't. You're essentially making up a complaint. 

[Mak_Gohae]

Sorry to say, but it seems like you aren't even trying to understand his point, even though it's exactly the same point others have been making again and again.

 

There are two timelines at work here:-

 

1) The timeline of you as a player being introduced to lore as the game is being developed.

 

2) The timeline of the actual story being told.

 

For you as a player, yes, the Infested have "always been around" in the game, but that's simply because you started the game earlier and the devs are only now backfilling story for new players.

 

In the story, the Infested have "always been around", in the sense that they are an ancient threat (they were a threat in the story's past), and known to the Lotus historically, but they haven't "always been around" in the sense of being present to NPC people living in the virtual world, for a long time.  The Grineer "awaken" that presence.

 

You, when you started playing WF hit the ground running with the Infested being a present threat in the game world. 

 

All that's happened is that some story has been introduced to new players that gives them a context for the rest of the content (which you already know and have played through, which has the Infested as "always around").

 

To put all this another way: for a new player, they will first encounter the Infested as an ancient menace, that the Grineer have re-awakened, and this explains the amounts of Infested that they're going to encounter as they progress through the game.  You, as an older player, didn't have that backstory, the presence of the Infested (their return) in the game world was simply unexplained.  Now it's been explained. It's really quite simple.

 

(Side-note: re. the technocyte thing, I thought it was nano/bio-technology invented by humans, and it's a great irony that the Orokin use it.  Why?  Because it protects some humans from the Void, those who survive the Void on account of the technocyte virus becoming Tenno.  Infestation is the "adverse" reaction to the technocyte virus - no doubt manipulated, first by the Orokin, then other sinister interests - becoming a Tenno is the "lucky" reaction to the technocyte virus, and enables "magic" powers from the Void to be added to the high tech toughness, agility, etc., of the Warframe, as well as enabling integration with the Warframe, as originally per the first Warframe with whatshisname.  It's a riff on Nietzsche's "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger".)

 

No there's only one timeline, the timeline the story creates which now has this strange blip.

 

The Grineer were just beginning to study the Infested that had not been seen since the Old War and because of that mission the Tenno went into they are introduced into the SS for the first time in centuries. If the Infested were just introduced into the present time then how do we have all this tech that uses Infested materials? Plus that makes it pure luck that the Tenno you have been playing has the ability to use more than the one frame he came with.

 

They need to clarify a whole mess of stuff. If we are going to believe all this Infested tech exist when they are just first appearing since the old war... does that mean that going from planet to planet on the game takes.... what, 25 years? That would be the only way the Infested got some many Corpus Infested and enough time for tech to develop to use them. So by the time you get to the fourth time a hundred years have passed?

[Morec0]

My answer to the "tech that uses Infested" - the utilization of the Infestation in past eras. Remember, the Infesteation has just been revived in full force, or at least helped in its resurrection by the Grineer, but the technology of the original people to use it - the Orokin - has been around for ages, and has likely been uncovered by the Corpus and Grineer long before, so there logically could be some devices that are designed around the use of specimens that were grown in a lab-based environment (not that we Tenno do that) or simply are older Orokin-era designs that incorporated them naturally.

 

Not to mention I believe that the Warframes make use of Technocyte as a vital part of their being BECAUSE they're Technocyte.

 

I also feeling you're DRASTICALLY underestimating how fast technology evolves - ESPECIALLY when it's used for war. I mean, what? Just 20 years ago military drones would have been unheard of, 70 years ago the nuke was just being worked on/tested. Technology advances by the week, not the decade.

 

 

EDIT: that guy is right there, there's a slight blip between the order in which players can experience things and the way in which the story's told. Once Awake is set to take place right after Vor's Prize (though I don't think you'd contest that) rather than after any of this stuff that's already happened - Breeding Grounds, all that.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Morec0

[Omnimorph]

No there's only one timeline, the timeline the story creates which now has this strange blip.

 

The Grineer were just beginning to study the Infested that had not been seen since the Old War and because of that mission the Tenno went into they are introduced into the SS for the first time in centuries. If the Infested were just introduced into the present time then how do we have all this tech that uses Infested materials? Plus that makes it pure luck that the Tenno you have been playing has the ability to use more than the one frame he came with.

 

They need to clarify a whole mess of stuff. If we are going to believe all this Infested tech exist when they are just first appearing since the old war... does that mean that going from planet to planet on the game takes.... what, 25 years? That would be the only way the Infested got some many Corpus Infested and enough time for tech to develop to use them. So by the time you get to the fourth time a hundred years have passed?

 

The technology has nothing intrinsically to do with the Infested, it's technocyte technology, which was around before the Infested.  A variant of it is what leads to the Infested, and another variant of it leads to Warframes (suit material derived from technocyte technology).

 

I think if you were to start a new character on another account, you'd see that what's facing you as a new player now makes sense as it comes.  Having started in August, I had the new player experience with the new missions and the Liset and everything, and when it got to the Infested on later planets, they were just something that seemed to be around, it wasn't clear what they were, etc. 

 

Now, I think as a new player, you will have this mission and that will prepare you for the Infested missions on the later planets, i.e. there is now a reason for them to be around when you get to the later planets.

 

Another point: some of this has to be "asynchronous" because all multiplayer games have to have an asynchronous element.  It's not possible in a multiplayer game to have all the game events for every player be in a strict, sequential timeline of their personal play. 

Edited December 8, 2014 by Omnimorph

[Aimop95]

No there's only one timeline, the timeline the story creates which now has this strange blip.

 

The Grineer were just beginning to study the Infested that had not been seen since the Old War and because of that mission the Tenno went into they are introduced into the SS for the first time in centuries. If the Infested were just introduced into the present time then how do we have all this tech that uses Infested materials? Plus that makes it pure luck that the Tenno you have been playing has the ability to use more than the one frame he came with.

 

They need to clarify a whole mess of stuff. If we are going to believe all this Infested tech exist when they are just first appearing since the old war... does that mean that going from planet to planet on the game takes.... what, 25 years? That would be the only way the Infested got some many Corpus Infested and enough time for tech to develop to use them. So by the time you get to the fourth time a hundred years have passed?

Your infested tech will hardly be the first thing a new player sees. In fact, I doubt they'll go near (be aware of ) the stuff until after they do the infested quest, so for new players, all this infested tech is the result of rediscovering the infested. So as far as the story is concerned, you've just discovered the infested, and now al the research the grineer have done in secret is now on the tip of your hands (or anyone else's).  

[Mak_Gohae]

I've read through all 6 pages and I don't see the problem. If a new player comes into the game, it makes complete sense.

 

Right, up until they get to the later part of the game and it doesnt.

This quest makes sense up until you start figuring out all the other stuff in the game.