An Ember Buff/rework

[RealPandemonium]

lolwhat?

 

http://youtu.be/C4bDSDJsWxM

Just watched the video.  Is that seriously how you play Warframe?  Trollmaster?

[Awazx]

I loved their suggestions and new mechanics skills Ember. +1

[Azawarau]

Make a record and show how awesome she is. These are just words. As I said, it was recorded by me. You said she is a melee caster - I did melee. One shock wave and she is dead, and how many infested died by that time? 3-4 at the beginning when they were solo. I have cut down more than the ult has burned. If you'd like to see me doing melee as I usually do it, I'll make another record.

 

Ember, as she currently is, is only useful on exterminate missions where you just run and a steady stream of weak to average mobs come at you (and there again, if you don't have Saryn/Rhino/or even Frost in your squad).

You stood around and died

 

Like

 

I could make a video of nova where i go pure melee without any mods to prove how she isnt OP and die against lvl 40 infested in one hit

 

That wouldnt make me right

 

Ill see if i have time for a video

 

I still owe a high wave nova run to another guy in another thread and OBS keeps crashing WF or corrupting my files

[EvanTheNewbie]

Let WOF ignore armor and shield, and do double the damage. If she's going to be a glass cannon, she better have a powerful cannon. Having it be toggleable sounds fantastic.

[Azawarau]

Let WOF ignore armor and shield, and do double the damage. If she's going to be a glass cannon, she better have a powerful cannon. Having it be toggleable sounds fantastic.

If it were toggleable alone itd be fantastic

 

Armor ignore im iffy about though

[Bouldershoulder]

Just watched the video.  Is that seriously how you play Warframe?  Trollmaster?

Read comments carefully. I explained everything.

 

 

 

You stood around and died

 

Like

 

I could make a video of nova where i go pure melee without any mods to prove how she isnt OP and die against lvl 40 infested in one hit

 

That wouldnt make me right

 

Ill see if i have time for a video

 

I still owe a high wave nova run to another guy in another thread and OBS keeps crashing WF or corrupting my files

OK. I use WoF and go killing enemies with my guns and melee. What's the difference then whether I have it or not? It's weapons that do the killing, not WoF. Ash's ult kills, Saryn's ult kills, Frost's ult kills, Mag's kills, Oberon's, Volt's, and others. Embers? Kills a few, if you are lucky.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Bouldershoulder

[Kazur90]

Let WOF ignore armor and shield, and do double the damage. If she's going to be a glass cannon, she better have a powerful cannon. Having it be toggleable sounds fantastic.

 

If it were toggleable alone itd be fantastic

 

Armor ignore im iffy about though

 

Would be better if the damage scales with the armor.

more armor, more damage.

 

why?

 

lets say armor when exposed to fire will heat making it and cook the thing is inside.

 

but it would be a bit op.

 

also

 

toggle wof DE, pls

 

P.S.: who much energy wof will use?

50 at start and 10 every sec?

25 + 5 every sec?

 

or 25 + 10 every sec?

Edited December 15, 2014 by KazurBR

[.Czern]

OK. I use WoF and go killing enemies with my guns and melee. What's the difference then whether I have it or not? It's weapons that do the killing, not WoF. Ash's ult kills, Saryn's ult kills, Frost's ult kills, Mag's kills, Oberon's, Volt's, and others. Embers? Kills a few, if you are lucky.

You can outdamage most of them by using Accelerant. Sucks, but works.

 

Would be better if the damage scales with the armor.

more armor, more damage.

why?

lets say armor when exposed to fire will heat making it and cook the thing is inside.

but it would be a bit op.

It'd be very overpowered. Armor-ignore would not.

Edited December 15, 2014 by .Czern

[Azawarau]

Read comments carefully. I explained everything.

 

 

 

OK. I use WoF and go killing enemies with my guns and melee. What's the difference then whether I have it or not? It's weapons that do the killing, not WoF. Ash's ult kills, Saryn's ult kills, Frost's ult kills, Mag's kills, Oberon's, Volt's, and others. Embers? Kills a few, if you are lucky.

Embers kills alot if you know what youre doing

 

You can hide behind doors or choke points all day making bank

 

You cant use it as a panic button 4 for mindless running in and blame it on the frame

Would be better if the damage scales with the armor.

more armor, more damage.

 

why?

 

lets say armor when exposed to fire will heat making it and cook the thing is inside.

 

but it would be a bit op.

 

also

 

toggle wof DE, pls

 

P.S.: who much energy wof will use?

50 at start and 10 every sec?

25 + 5 every sec?

 

or 25 + 10 every sec?

Scaling directly with enemy level is bad

 

See mag for details

 

Energy usage will have to be debated while keeping in mind that Ember is heaviy reliant on power STR so she may lose efficiency and we may be seeing a primed intensify in the future

[Bouldershoulder]

Embers kills alot if you know what youre doing

Oh, really? So why do the fire pillars erupt anywhere but where they should? I activate WoF only to see these freaking spews jump out where there is nothing to kill.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Bouldershoulder

[BlockshotOrange]

Guys, chill.

 

This is an Ember rework thread, not an argument thread.

Different people have different playstyles, and some may be better than others, but don't go enforcing your methods onto others. Nobody on this thread should be a door-to-door "Have you found Jesus" missionary.

 

Also, if some of you have read the entire post, some of the suggestions you have made are already incorporated in the rework.

Please read the whole post. There is no TLDR; her rework is not something you'd put in a few sentences.

 

If you have any suggestions to add or alternate ideas or have some numbers done, post it here and I'll go through it.

 

And do keep it civil.

Edited December 15, 2014 by BlockshotOrange

[.Czern]

I'll just drop here what I wrote in my thread. Looks like we share most of our points.

 

1) Sprint speed increased to 1.1/1.5

2) Fire Blast change: on cast creates fire slam similar to one used by Sargas Ruk/Fire Eximi but ALSO leaves the ring we have now. The explosion should deal high damage and have 70-100% knockdown proc.

3) WoF maken toggleable with high energy drain but low activation cost

4) Damaging abilities buff (their damage) and Accelerant's multiplier reduced to reflect this change. The point of this is to let us use her without need of spamming Accelerant on higher levels.

5) +50% stamina

6) Would be great if her shield recharge delay was cut a lot but probably I'm asking about too much now :/

7) WoF's proc change increased to reasonable amount (20-40%?)

8) Target limit on WoF increased, maybe faster attack rate? It should be fire rain after all :<

9)Accelerant could be changed to self-buff aura multiplicating abilities damage and giving 0/10/20/30% additional fire damage to weapons of other Tenno.

[(PSN)Cokain6]

I'm fine with a simple increase in the base armor to 30, i don't think that is unreasonable. Also for Banshee

 

Ember -     Armor = 15, Health = 300, Shield = 300, Sprint = 1.0, Power=150

Banshee - Armor = 15, Health = 300, Shield = 300, Sprint = 1.1, Power=225

Nova   -     Armor = 65, Health = 300, Shield = 225, Sprint = 1.2, Power=225

[SteelSoldier]

 The thing I never understood about Fire Blast is why it only deals 150 Heat Damage at it´s max level, the 150 damage per second on the ring of flames is decent, but the damage inside the radius is absolutely horrible considering its a 75 energy cost and when a Fireball which is a 25 energy ability can do up to 400 damage and to enemies around the target hit will deal 150.

 

 FireBall and Accelerant are completely Balanced at the moment, they do what they are meant to do, but Fire Blast and World on Fire are very lackluster.

 

 Considering Ember is meant to be a Glass Cannon, you would expect her to deal high amounts of damage when she puts herself in harm's way, so she should do more damage the closer she is to enemies, the Fireball and accelerant are meant to be tools to make her safely engage the enemies from the distance.

 

 FireBlast should become an AoE type of Nuke when she is close and wants to risk it agaisnt groups of enemies, While World on Fire is meant to be an ability that gives her a decent amount of AoE damage versus enemies that are closer to her.

 

 At the moment World on FIre doesn´t deal a whole lot, at it´s maximum efficiency it can do 400x4.5=1800 damage per second, assuming you have 4.5 explosions happening each second instead of 2, which would only be 400 Damage.

 

 It would be particularly interesting if instead of doing the same amount of damage at a higher range, it would deal more damage the closer the target gets to ember.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

I think every single ember rework thread i have ever looked at so far has a roast fest between

 

*random person* and Azawarau

I think we got ourselves a negative nancy :)

 

[Azawarau]

Oh, really? So why do the fire pillars erupt anywhere but where they should? I activate WoF only to see these freaking spews jump out where there is nothing to kill.

Because you arent near enemies or already killed them

 

Idk if i should tell you to get moving or good work

 

Guys, chill.

 

This is an Ember rework thread, not an argument thread.

Different people have different playstyles, and some may be better than others, but don't go enforcing your methods onto others. Nobody on this thread should be a door-to-door "Have you found Jesus" missionary.

 

Also, if some of you have read the entire post, some of the suggestions you have made are already incorporated in the rework.

Please read the whole post. There is no TLDR; her rework is not something you'd put in a few sentences.

 

If you have any suggestions to add or alternate ideas or have some numbers done, post it here and I'll go through it.

 

And do keep it civil.

People are being mostly civil from what i can see

 

Except the post a bit below but im sure you wont report that

 

Also you cant just say you cant tell me how to play and use that as a reason

 

Example

 

Someone posted a quick ember melee video and died

 

Uses that as a reason why ember is bad at melee

 

I told him to use powers and dodge and you know what gives me the right to?

 

Because i along with any others do that and it works

 

What hes doing and what many others are doing obviously isnt working so they can either keep doing it wrong, prove that their way is right  (even if unusual but if you can do it then you have a point), or keep being wrong bluntly

 

 

 

I'm fine with a simple increase in the base armor to 30, i don't think that is unreasonable. Also for Banshee

 

Ember -     Armor = 15, Health = 300, Shield = 300, Sprint = 1.0, Power=150

Banshee - Armor = 15, Health = 300, Shield = 300, Sprint = 1.1, Power=225

Nova   -     Armor = 65, Health = 300, Shield = 225, Sprint = 1.2, Power=225

That wouldnt make any difference sadly

 

I think every single ember rework thread i have ever looked at so far has a roast fest between

 

*random person* and Azawarau

I think we got ourselves a negative nancy :)

 

Theres no roast fest except the one youre stirring up now

 

If youd spend as much time finding solutions as you do trash talk then you might have a valid opinion

 

Of course its easier to criticize the ones who do things than actually do something and risk getting critiqued

[Bouldershoulder]

Because you arent near enemies or already killed them

http://youtu.be/QMC6_f31uzk

Close enough? +84% power strength, +58% power duration, normal range, 13 light infested 22 level dead. And don't tell me about Accelerant, for I don't have to waste 150 energy for an ult to be effective.

[Azawarau]

http://youtu.be/QMC6_f31uzk

Close enough? +84% power strength, +58% power duration, normal range, 13 light infested 22 level dead. And don't tell me about Accelerant, for I don't have to waste 150 energy for an ult to be effective.

Well your first mistake was not moving to cast that second WoFso you took a nasty hit

 

The second seems to b e your build isnt actually taking infesteds biggest weakness into account

 

They arent effective at a distance so you can go short range to amp up power

 

Also you arent shooting or meleeing at all

 

Wasnt this about melee ember? Lets see what i have in my magic hat

 

 

 

This is how you should melee ember

 

Even without a fire based weapon or rage to sustain the energy usage she was a very efficient killer and could stun for long periods of time

 

Still working on this build but theres no doubt itll be a killer

 

Coming next is my actual WoF build if i can find the video where i was sitting by a grineer door and killing everything at lvl 35 without doing anything

 

TL:DR

 

Youre doing something wrong

 

And dont change the subject this time

 

As for spamming WoF alone in a build

 

Its not viable as is

 

You should learn to treat her as a caster if you  plan to try though

 

That means get some efficiency and use accelerant

Edited December 16, 2014 by Azawarau

[Bouldershoulder]

snip

So how is this video related to her abilities except a few accelerants? Any warframe can do melee.

Did you see how many fire pillars just missed their target, even when it was literally a step close?

Edited December 16, 2014 by Bouldershoulder

[RealPandemonium]

I think every single ember rework thread i have ever looked at so far has a roast fest between

 

*random person* and Azawarau

I think we got ourselves a negative nancy :)

Don't forget me!

 

But seriously, the guy actually tries a to make a lot of things work.  As far as Ember goes, at least, he knows his stuff.  

[Azawarau]

So how is this video related to her abilities except a few accelerants? Any warframe can do melee.

Did you see how many fire pillars just missed their target, even when it was literally a step close?

Its a melee ember example

 

I didnt need accelerant terribly much beause enemies are weak here

 

Imagine that ember against say... lvl 50 grineer

 

Accelerants damage boost is useful there

 

Keep in mind you brought melee ember in to this when you quoted me and im talking strictly melee ember

 

With the build i have

 

Her 1 is a utility heavy stun and flying target killer

 

2 is the main power youll use for CC and buff

 

3 only lasts for 10 seconds so its not terribly helpful but i have used it to double stun crowds after accelerant

 

4 is a panic or burst button or extra burst DPS for your meleeing

 

Also as you see in the video i used to to get a very fast clear during a revival

 

 

Don't forget me!

 

But seriously, the guy actually tries a to make a lot of things work.  As far as Ember goes, at least, he knows his stuff.  

NO

 

AZAWARA IS A NERF HERDER AND JUST WANTS TO SEE THE WORLD BURN (in an ember thread)

[Xtenz]

The real problem is that she has a problem in her core design .

She is squishy ( 15 armor) and no natural sustain . 

Her kit is DPS  oriented , and when the enemies becomes harder she just can't burst them so you'll usually die because you lack burst (right now) or you're missing some natural tankyness.

What that means is that she needs a total rework on WoF to make her Burst oriented  , or you rework again Accelerant to make her tankier.

Untill this core problem is here we won't be able to play Ember properly at higher levels

 

Maybe change the current accelerant , and mix it with the old overheat  ( to some degree) . Sounds fair to me .

Edited December 16, 2014 by Xtenz

[Bouldershoulder]

The real problem is that she has a problem in her core design .

She is squishy ( 15 armor) and no natural sustain . 

Her kit is DPS  oriented , and when the enemies becomes harder she just can't burst them so you'll usually die because you lack burst (right now) or you're missing some natural tankyness.

What that means is that she needs a total rework on WoF to make her Burst oriented  , or you rework again Accelerant to make her tankier.

Untill this core problem is here we won't be able to play Ember properly at higher levels

 

Maybe change the current accelerant , and mix it with the old overheat  ( to some degree) . Sounds fair to me .

I agree, except for the last sentence.

No need to make her a melee frame, she just needs the fire blast to work similar to Banshee's Sonic Boom in radial form and with damage output around 300*PowerStrength*Accelerant. And the World on Fire should be an AoE DoT with status proc chance, it has to be HELL, not the durned freaking fire pillars spewing half the fire into emptiniess, I just hate WoF 2.0, it's crap.

 

Now there she has both damage and crowd control. Accelerant provides damage amplification, a burst of Fire Blast amplified by Accelerant can't be spammed, as it throws everything every which way, and WoF provides both damage and crowd control in the form of fire procs.

This is a simple solution

Edited December 16, 2014 by Bouldershoulder

[Bibliothekar]

[...] she just can't burst them [...] make her Burst oriented

What do you mean with "burst"? IMO, it would already have helped her a lot if she had gotten an Eximus augment for Fire Blast so she can push enemies away when she's swarmed. Instead, status chance mod.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Bibliothekar

[Xtenz]

I agree, except for the last sentence.

No need to make her a melee frame, she just needs the fire blast to work similar to Banshee's Sonic Boom in radial form and with damage output around 300*PowerStrength*Accelerant. And the World on Fire should be an AoE DoT with status proc chance, it has to be HELL, not the durned freaking fire pillars spewing half the fire into emptiniess, I just hate WoF 2.0, it's crap.

 

Now there she has both damage and crowd control. Accelerant provides damage amplification, a burst of Fire Blast amplified by Accelerant can't be spammed, as it throws everything every which way, and WoF provides both damage and crowd control in the form of fire procs.

This is a simple solution

 

She is a close/mid range caster dps already .And fireblast already crowd control ( 6 seconds fire proc).

What do you mean with "burst"? IMO, it would already have helped her a lot if she had gotten an Eximus augment for Fire Blast so she can push enemies away when she's swarmed. Instead, status chance mod.

 

Burst mean high amount of damage in a short amount of time .

Right now she has OK DPS ( damage per second)  but she can't do it because she is too squishy . Unless she is fighting low lvl enemies , in that case her DPS is enough to be called "burst" because she one shots .

This is why she fall off.

 

 

 

 

Oh and also , i think she is Okay'ish against infected  , in particular because of fireblast . If you get swarmed (by lvl40-50 infested) it means you are doing  something wrong ( no offence , just saying) .

 

A good late game warframe is a warframe that can do her job in lategame content , right now we have void . And she's absolutely terrible aggainst Corpus/Grineer/Orokins because they are ranged , and she is way too slow and squishy to handle any form of damage .