Rhino And Saryn Questions

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

I'm a new-ish Rhino player (built prime and it's currently rank 15).  I really enjoy its tank-y nature, but I'm noticing that Iron Skin is becoming less and less useful. Is there any way to increase the viability/durability of Iron Skin?  When I cast it, the skill has a counter of 100.  I don't know if this counter is Iron Skin's hit points or if it's the % of Iron Skin left.  I feel that on the higher-level missions, it's not nearly as durable.  I know it's not the best it can be because it's not maxed yet, but I wanted to know for future reference if I can improve Iron Skin?

 

I have had Saryn for a while, and I maxed her to 30 and then stopped using her.  I just haven't found any of her skills useful:

 

Contagion: Great for melee, but unless I'm doing infested missions, this ability is next-to-useless

Molt: The most useful skill, but I feel like the molt's explosion doesn't do any damage

Miasma: I know this is an AoE skill, but does it affect a cone in front of me, or enemies all around me?

Venom: I had to look up what it's called because it just sucks so bad I never used it.  It seems to be an inferior viral-based version of Oberon's Smite.

 

I don't want to say that Saryn is useless, because I have two friends who use her and love it.  I haven't potatoed her because I have found that I shouldn't pop a reactor in anything that I'm just not feeling.

 

I want to like Saryn, but maybe I just don't know "how" to use her?  Any configurations/strategies are welcome.

 

 

[Kestral9999]

Rhino's Iron Skin:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Skin

 

Miasma is a radial AoE for Saryn. And as far as configurations go, if you like Molt, Contagion, and Miasma, spec for power strength, range, and duration.

[Prime]

Is there any way to increase the viability/durability of Iron Skin?  

At base it has 1200 Hitpoints [DMG incomming] and with all power strenght it has 3408 Hitpoints :)

 

so yes, power strenght...

 

 

Molt: The most useful skill, but I feel like the molt's explosion doesn't do any damage

Yes! It does 200 Explosion DMG, increased by power strength to a maximum of 485 :)

 

 

Miasma: I know this is an AoE skill, but does it affect a cone in front of me, or enemies all around me?

All enemies surrounding you can get hit by the ability...

 

 

Venom: I had to look up what it's called because it just sucks so bad I never used it.  It seems to be an inferior viral-based version of Oberon's Smite.

Actually, it will deal a small AoE DMG, but every spore has a 50% chance to half enemies HP for 6 seconds, so its great against higher lvl infested ancients, combined with a weapon using poison for example :)

 

I will add my build for both of the frames soon!

http://goo.gl/Xyc6ZN <- Saryn Build for DMG

http://goo.gl/5jYl8e <- all day Rhino Build

http://goo.gl/uhw1i8 <- Saryn Build for duration

 

Cheers!

Edited December 10, 2014 by Mampfi

[Darzk]

The counter for Iron Skin is the % remaining. You can increase the total damage absorbed by adding Power Strength to the frame, and increase the efficiency with Power Efficiency. The best setup is 75% efficiency with +112% PS, which results in 2544 damage absorbed or 203.5 dmg/energy.

 

Saryn: Contagion is mostly useless. The long cast time coupled with the rather unimpressive damage boost is crippling.

Molt's damage range is fairly small, but it does do okay damage. Letting it expire naturally rather than having it killed doubles the damage done, so reducing duration can help you use it offensively. Mostly I use it to distract enemies and shed procs.

Miasma is radial - it affects all targets in a sphere around you, regardless of the direction you face and whether you have line-of-sight to the target. The damage scales higher with reduced duration as it has a bonus tick, and a shorter duration makes that bonus tick hit harder.

Venom is mostly useful for spreading the Viral proc to enemies, reducing their health pool to half.

 

 

A note about Miasma - its not funny how broken OP this ability is right now. Because it scales with negative duration, you can get massive amounts of damage from the ability. The way it works is that with no mods it deals 1500 damage over its duration, a base of 4 seconds. It feels intended to deal the same amount with any duration as the damage per tick is the base total of 1500 divided by the modified duration. If we simply multiplied the duration by the damage per tick we'd have a null scaling, but because the ability gets an 'extra' tick we want to maximize that.

 

A setup with max Streamline, FE, TF, Intensify, and a R2 BR and the Arcane Chlora Helmet will deal 13780 Corrosive damage over two ticks, for only 25 energy, making Miasma the most energy efficient AoE damaging ability in the game.

 

Edit:

Reducing the duration increases the total damage done by Miasma.

 

The way it works is that Miasma gets an extra tick. So the base duration is used to calculate the damage per tick, and then you get a bonus one. So reducing the duration increases the damage per tick, and makes the bonus tick contribute a lot more damage.

 

The actual formula is: DamageperTick = 1500 / Duration%*4seconds. So with no change in duration, you've got 375 per tick.

The # of ticks is: Duration%*4 seconds + 1 bonus tick, and the total damage done is: DamageperTick * #ofTicks.

 

So with a fully reduced duration (max FE, TF, and the Arcane Chlora) you've got a duration of 7.5%, giving you a damage per tick of 1500/(7.5%*4sec) = 1500/30% = 5000 damage per tick base, and a total number of ticks of 0.3+1 = 1.3, so a total damage of 6500.

 

Above formulas do not include the effects of power strength. A setup with max FE, TF, and Arcane Chlora, with Intensify and R2 Blind Rage would deal 13780 damage for 25 energy, or 551.2 damage/energy, the most energy efficient damaging ability in the game.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Darzk

[Vanhline]

rhino's armor by default has 1200 hitpoints, it is not effected by armor but is effected by power strength. by stacking power strength you can stack it up to 3408HP. thats with max blind rage, transcended fortitude and intensify. 

 

if you want tanky i would take a look at valkyr, with her armor rating you can stack her HP and armor to give her the highest effective HP in the game; much for health effective then rhino.

-she can go completely invincible on a dime with her ultimate in a "oh crap" scenario as well. 

[PhoenixTheMeh]

The 100 is the percentage left. If I'm correct iron skin scales with power.

I love playing Satyam as a melee tank with cleaners. Its not a common strategy but i enjoy it.

Edited December 10, 2014 by PhoenixTheMeh

[xyLoneZ]

Most people play Saryn for her nuking ability, miasma, which is arguably one of the highest damaging AoE ability in the game. The only downside is that it has lower range compared to other AoE ability in the game (RJ, Rhino's Stomp, etc).

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

if you want tanky i would take a look at valkyr, with her armor rating you can stack her HP and armor to give her the highest effective HP in the game; much for health effective then rhino.

-she can go completely invincible on a dime with her ultimate in a "oh crap" scenario as well. 

Oh I abuse Hysteria maliciously.  Valkyr is my 3rd-favorite frame of the game :)

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

Wow Darzk, you really did your homework on this.

 

Thank you all for your input!  I will hold onto Saryn and examine my config when I get a chance!

[Sloan441]

Saryn is very effective, but she does lack innate recovery/control options that many other 'frames do have.

 

I like her for exterminate missons--at least when the pernicious issue of rushtards doesn't crop up. Because she can't heal herself on demand or lock down large areas of the map, she's best in a team situation.

 

As for powers:

 

Contagion is a huge boost to melee powers, but it sadly is diametrically opposed to what is needed in other powers. Low duration kills its utility, but it can be used to modify elemental effects on weapons and is very powerful if modded for. Mostly, however, melee is strong enough without it and it brings little else to the table.

 

Venom is devastating. Don't let anyone tell you different. The issue with it is, again, that it really needs duration for best effect and most Saryn builds are minimum duration. Still, it is almost a guaranteed viral proc and is excellent when used against very tough enemies. It can also clean up the trash mobs pretty easily on its own at the lower levels.

 

Molt. Your only defensive power. This one is a mixed bag, but it depends how you use it. It can be used as ablative armor if your weapons have enough punchthrough. It can be used as a stalking horse for melee builds or to concentrate enemies for an application of venom. It's a good escape option for Saryn herself if you need a break from combat or to revive a teammate.

 

Miasma. The big gun. This is where most of the issue with other powers comes from. It benefits from reduced duration to speed up its damage effects. It's arguably the most powerful outright nuke in the game and can take down enemies up to lvl 40ish with an optimized build. It's a radial ability and effects everything around you up to your maximum ability range.

 

Saryn is tough, but she doesn't have any innate recovery outside of rejuvenation aura (her native aura polarity). She's best played in a hit and run style. Use soft cover and molt to limit exposure to enemy fire. Use venom to weaken tougher enemies or bedevil groups of enemies at range. Contagion will probably be ignored, but if you're going in on a nullifer, well, it sure doesn't hurt--or anytime you feel like engaging a tough enemy with melee (Stalker...). If you've gotten hit with a bleed proc or other status effect, immediately molt to remove it then flank when enemies are engaging the molt. Miasma is best when caught flat-footed at close range, or whenever enough enemies are dumb enough to group up and you can reach them quickly--or just when you want to see puddles of screaming goo.

 

Saryn can be a lot of fun, and I often use her when solo farming lower level void missions. She's in my general rotation of 'frames, even if she doesn't see as much use as Valkyr, Nyx, or Banshee.

[Kachocalvo]

Everyone sees Rhino as a Tank. But when it really counts, on high levels, it's main role changes to boost damage with Roar and provide some CC with Stomp, The Iron Skin just give some extra durability when doing things like reviving teammates, activating life support, etc., as you cannot stand in the enemy fire anymore without risk.

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

I am hearing a lot of folks say that Rhino is over-hyped and played out, but I'm trying to not believe the hype, and I am enjoying using him :)

[RoboDoge]

I am hearing a lot of folks say that Rhino is over-hyped and played out, but I'm trying to not believe the hype, and I am enjoying using him :)

He is meta frame and used by worst players in game. There are few players that can use him properly. Rhino hate didnt come by itself, there is deep background of idiocy and noobism behind it.

 

 

As i always advise new players, build Rhino last.

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

He is meta frame and used by worst players in game. There are few players that can use him properly. Rhino hate didnt come by itself, there is deep background of idiocy and noobism behind it.

 

 

As i always advise new players, build Rhino last.

Oh yeah, all the hate definitely comes from somewhere.  I'm relatively new to the WF Community, so learning which frames are beast and which are least is still coming to me.  Most folks tend to agree that Ember is the worst, and there's just this general hatred for Rhino.  

 

I just ranked up to MR8, so I was MR7 when I built Rhino Prime.  I skipped it initially because it looked boring, like a beefy excal with none of the fun abilities.  Now that I have one, I really like it.  I enjoy the shimmering gold Iron Skin, and with the tips from this thread, I'll be even better with it.

[d1sc1p1e]

Iron Skins usefulness drops off drastically at higher levels, where it can get one shoted by mobs meaning it's power cost and time is wasted. it's also static, once you're max leveled there's not much you can do to increase it. Rhinos Roar and Stomp don't, they become more effective at higher levels. what you see is a pattern that most frames conform to.