Lotus In Bloom [Ooc]

[Achaix]

Achaix...I'd really like some more of what's going on in that Mirage's head. Because as it is this post only makes my confused and makes me wonder how a person who said that her experience is to do repairs works on Archwings and Lisets can optimize the power output from a energy core that quickly. Unless it actually did take a while but you never mentioned any time and the way you wrote it made it seem like it went really quickly.

 

How does concluding that the core is one of the newer models help her? If the core is so new then why does she handle it so easily? Why does she handle a new core and system seemingly effortless? Shouldn't she encounter some problems with something she isn't used to handle?

Or does she actually have experience with this? Or studied energy cores to some extent so that she got some ground to stand on? We're never told anything of this in any way.

 

 "Orokin style Core, so Tenno made. Looks like the most recent models, so that means there's bound to be... there you are, you little bugger!"

That sentence bothers me, what is she talking about?

 

Besides this I sort of feel like you just pulled the rug from under my feet as I do control Atlanta and with that Engineering.

Yeah, I do that sometimes. Thanks for pointing it out BTW.

Atlanta's test was rather extreme, though. As a result, I broke one of my few rules and pulled that bit out of my posterior.

In hindsight, it is quite obvious. An edit will solve - or increase IC - your problems.

[WingedCrusade]

I gotta say, the Twins and Zokah seem to be getting along rather well, their conversation's went on forever!

I mean, at first I felt like I was going too fast, but it made me remember to how slow people in my school are when talking.

At any rate, my worry of being too fast has subsided! - And if the twins wanna say hi, Lusith'll be in the hallway.

---// ~ //---

Out of curiosity, does the fact that my posts seem to be half thought and half action bother anybody?

Edited January 4, 2015 by WingedCrusade

[Temperance000]

Not at all!  A mixture of thought and action is quite healthy.  Look at Viper and Snale's posts; you'll see what I'm talking about.

[S.T.M.P.D]

Temp, Should I make up the content of the signal or would you rather have control over that?

[Temperance000]

Temp, Should I make up the content of the signal or would you rather have control over that?

 

I'll take care of it.  Thanks STMPD.

 

However, I am glad I left the design of the Archaeology lab to you.  I would like to work in a lab like that.

[Temperance000]

A quick note for everybody:  the cabins do not have windows.  There is an observation area running along the outside of the crew deck, but the rooms themselves are windowless.

 

Apologies for the double post.

[Sumika1204]

I edited the thing so feel free to fit in a reply for me.

[S.T.M.P.D]

Erm.

We all good down here?

[fishworshipper]

Erm.

We all good down here?

Temp has been busy with real life stuff; a post from him should come today, and then all you guys who are waiting on him can post again.

[WingedCrusade]

So, in my last post I had the knowledge that Temperance had left Alfrond's room, however I hadn't seen apparently that he had arrived at the bridge, so instead of deleting my post, I edited it to make it appear she did it as he left and he just hadn't noticed, is this alright Temperance? If you'd like me to repost something different, I could, I just wanted to make sure that was okay since it slightly involved your character.

[Temperance000]

So, in my last post I had the knowledge that Temperance had left Alfrond's room, however I hadn't seen apparently that he had arrived at the bridge, so instead of deleting my post, I edited it to make it appear she did it as he left and he just hadn't noticed, is this alright Temperance? If you'd like me to repost something different, I could, I just wanted to make sure that was okay since it slightly involved your character.

 

Unless he's very, very angry, or very, very busy, it is not like Temperance to ignore someone talking to him, so long as said someone is not a person he actively dislikes.  And at this point, only Alfrond really qualifies for that.

 

I think it might work if Lusith didn't run into Temperance just yet.  Alfrond should still be there, however.

 

On which note, Lusith's room is on the opposite side of the ship from where Temp and Alfrond are/were.  Just something to keep in mind.

 

((Edit:  Holy crap.  1500 posts.))

Edited January 7, 2015 by Temperance000

[WingedCrusade]

Are the halls really that far? The sketch made it seem closer than I'd have figured. XD

Sorry. I shall change it for now. It may be a moment. Phone isn't the best...

Thank you for telling me!

[fishworshipper]

 

"Very easy, ", Alfrond chuckled very loudly in his mind, "Oh, so very easy... there's no need for supplies and whatnot... after all, ice is rather nice, isn't it?". 

 

And soon, when the Ash set up for the launch of the Manifold, he arrived at the public hall. He looked up, saw the mark, smiled, readied his hand, and casted Freeze. The ice bolt flew upwards, hitting the middle of the mark, and the ice spread to cover up the whole of the mark. What also happened was that the ice bolt spread into the small cracks that the mark had made to the ceiling, and wrapped around them, covering the tendrils of the mark that was slightly into the ceiling. Then, his mind started counting, 

 

"One, two, three, four...". 

 

At, "Five", the ice shattered, bringing the ashes from the mark with it and falling towards the floor, making the ceiling back to its normal look. In fact, probably even better, as the ice also went to clean up any possible rust that might have settled itself on the ceiling. Before the ice went to crash onto the floor, he stretched out his hand, and caught the small chunks of ice that fell from the ceiling. 

 

"And done too.", he smiled, storing the ice into his Warframe for later use, and walked towards the door to go out of the public hall. 

Alrighty, time to be the Logic Nazi again:

 

1. Scorch marks in metal are just heat-caused color warping, not some substance on the metal. That means that Alfrond's ice trick is either freezing literally every color-warped molecule in the metal, which is implausible at best, or it's just flat-out wrong.

2a. If all the metal does is change color, then the metal wouldn't get any sort of "cracks" in it. Also, ice melts into water, and water has a tendency to RUIN synthetic materials (example: potholes), so filling the "cracks" with ice would be REALLY bad.

2b. Ice filling in any crack damage would be noticeable because, even before the ice just flat-out melted ice reflects light way differently than whatever material our ships are made of does.

3a. Rust doesn't "settle" onto metal. Metal literally transforms into rust.

3b. I VERY highly doubt that whatever space-metal that Tenno ships are made of even rusts at all, considering that we modern humans already have and use metals that practically don't rust.

Edited January 7, 2015 by fishworshipper

[Temperance000]

I have to side with fish here, Renegade.  I don't mind Alfrond being a flippant, self-important sod, if that's his character, but I do take issue with him handily circumventing tasks meant to challenge him or make him think about his actions, especially when his solutions are rather implausible.

[Renegade343]

1. Scorch marks in metal are just heat-caused color warping, not some substance on the metal. That means that Alfrond's ice trick is either freezing literally every color-warped molecule in the metal, which is implausible at best, or it's just flat-out wrong.

Given that we have all the other things going on with the game and sometimes on the story (and scorch marks do have altered substances on its surface, which accounts for its colour change), having him do that is not really that out of the box. 

 

2a. If all the metal does is change color, then the metal wouldn't get any sort of "cracks" in it. Also, ice melts into water, and water has a tendency to RUIN synthetic materials (example: potholes), so filling the "cracks" with ice would be REALLY bad.

With a laser scorching metal and such, you do have minute (i.e.: Atomic) cracks on its surface, as lasers do vaporise a very small bit of things, even on low heat (and shattered ≠ melting. There is a difference for this one). 

 

 

2b. Ice filling in any crack damage would be noticeable because, even before the ice just flat-out melted ice reflects light way differently than whatever material our ships are made of does.

I did state that the ice fell out, not melted. 

 

3a. Rust doesn't "settle" onto metal. Metal literally transforms into rust.

Just wording problems, I see. I can fix that. 

 

3b. I VERY highly doubt that whatever space-metal that Tenno ships are made of even rusts at all, considering that we modern humans already have and use metals that practically don't rust.

Actually, every metal will rust. I mean, rusting is just oxidation (and maybe with water). In fact, your stainless steel rusts too, but you cannot see it (with chromium [which actually makes up part of stainless steel] reacts with oxygen in the air to create chromium (III) oxide (which is undergoing oxidation, because chromium is losing electrons [and oxidation is loss of electrons], which then protects the iron underneath from reacting). 

 

Unless you mean rusting as in 'oxidation of iron'. Then, fine. 

[fishworshipper]

Given that we have all the other things going on with the game and sometimes on the story (and scorch marks do have altered substances on its surface, which accounts for its colour change), having him do that is not really that out of the box. 

 

With a laser scorching metal and such, you do have minute (i.e.: Atomic) cracks on its surface, as lasers do vaporise a very small bit of things, even on low heat (and shattered ≠ melting. There is a difference for this one). 

 

 

I did state that the ice fell out, not melted. 

 

Just wording problems, I see. I can fix that. 

 

Actually, every metal will rust. I mean, rusting is just oxidation (and maybe with water). In fact, your stainless steel rusts too, but you cannot see it (with chromium [which actually makes up part of stainless steel] reacts with oxygen in the air to create chromium (III) oxide (which is undergoing oxidation, because chromium is losing electrons [and oxidation is loss of electrons], which then protects the iron underneath from reacting). 

 

Unless you mean rusting as in 'oxidation of iron'. Then, fine.

Respectively:

I don't mean that the freezing itself is implausible; I mean the precision necessary for this task is implausible. Frost's most precise freezing ability is still at best a big glob of freezey-ness, while this job suggests extreme precision. Possible, but not likely.

I'm not a metal expert and this level of nitpicking is too much for me if you're referring to atomic-level cracks, so I'll just buy this.

Regardless of whether or not the ice shattered right then, it would still melt eventually due to the fact that ice is a liquid at room temperature. Thus, if I understood your post correctly, ice in the cracks would be bad.

Sweet.

Wording problem on my end. Yes, whatever material we use would still oxidize at least on the outer "layer" of sorts, but such oxidation would very likely be imperceptible and thus the removal of the rust would be unnoticeable.

When it comes to the act in general, I might be misunderstanding a bit. After he breaks off the main chunk of ice, do the little tiny ice-fillings stay in the ceiling or no? If they do stay, that's what I'm referring to when talking about the ice melting. If the little fillings go with the main chunk then I'm cool with it (pardon the ice pun). Either way, the little indent where the scorched metal used to be would likely be noticeable and thus could use some treatment.

[Temperance000]

Renegade, back up for a second.  You're suggesting that this Frost of yours, who cannot handle a Spectra properly and does not know when to hold his tongue, has atomic level control of his cryokinetic abilities?  That he is gifted with such power and precision as to be able to freeze a molecule-thin layer on the ceiling from the ground?  I just can't see that.  Moreover, assuming any cracks, atomic scale or not, exist, filling them with ice is a sure-fire way to increase stress on the metal.  Water expands when it freezes.  Expansion tends to distort the surrounding material.  Grade-school science.  Taking the ice out of the (theoretical) crack just means that you now have a bigger crack.

 

More importantly, you're missing the whole point of all this technical speak.  Warframe screws with science.  We all get that.  However, that does not give you a free pass to "I'm so clever, not a problem" your way out of situations meant to challenge and teach your character.  This is a chance for Alfrond to start resenting Temperance, recognize that he himself was out of line, or come to any number of small realizations about his current situation.  What I handed you was an opportunity for your character to grow.  Respectfully, I ask you not to squander it on more of the same smug, insufferable fraction-of-a-Tenno we already know.

[fishworshipper]

Also, completely unrelated but a major pet peeve of mine that I've noticed in your writing, Renegade. I've pointed it out in a couple people's writing on the Chatango, and now it's your turn considering that I just remembered.

Italics are for thoughts.

"Quotes are for dialogue."

"This hurts my brain."

Not asking you to retroactively go back and change your posts or anything, just saying that it'd be nice if you follow the above formula for future posts.

Edited January 7, 2015 by fishworshipper

[Renegade343]

Renegade, back up for a second.  You're suggesting that this Frost of yours, who cannot handle a Spectra properly

I thought this was already settled down as an accident in the story already. 

 

Moreover, assuming any cracks, atomic scale or not, exist, filling them with ice is a sure-fire way to increase stress on the metal.  Water expands when it freezes.  Expansion tends to distort the surrounding material.  Grade-school science.  Taking the ice out of the (theoretical) crack just means that you now have a bigger crack.

It was ice to begin with, not water. Now, if it was water to begin with, then you have a point. However, if it was ice that slots perfectly into the crack in the first place, then melting it would not expand the crack (because the volume of water will decrease when melting). I thought that would be obvious based on that. 

 

More importantly, you're missing the whole point of all this technical speak.  Warframe screws with science.  We all get that.  However, that does not give you a free pass to "I'm so clever, not a problem" your way out of situations meant to challenge and teach your character.  This is a chance for Alfrond to start resenting Temperance, recognize that he himself was out of line, or come to any number of small realizations about his current situation.  What I handed you was an opportunity for your character to grow.  Respectfully, I ask you not to squander it on more of the same smug, insufferable fraction-of-a-Tenno we already know.

That comes a bit later on, not now (and I already planned for the public hall thing). 

 

I build things slow, then build up from there (I mean, this is still exposition [although it is starting to leave that with the Manifold leaving the Relay to travel towards the source of the signal]). 

[Temperance000]

That still does not account for the level of control necessary to do what you are proposing, Renegade.  

 

I am starting to get the feeling that Alfrond is one of those characters that nothing fazes, and no one can outsmart.  That, to me, constitutes more of a problem than any scientific difficulties associated with flash-freeze cleaning.  Which, for the record, I still do not buy.

[Renegade343]

I am starting to get the feeling that Alfrond is one of those characters that nothing fazes, and no one can outsmart.  That, to me, constitutes more of a problem than any scientific difficulties associated with flash-freeze cleaning.  Which, for the record, I still do not buy.

What do you mean, no one can outsmart him?

 

Your character already did. He was expecting a normal response, rather than a punishment, to see if Temperance could show him that he earned the rank honestly. Why would you think he said that in the first place?

[Temperance000]

If Alfrond wasn't expecting it, why did he take it so well?

 

Maybe I'm just glossing over things, and letting my personal hatred of Alfrond color my judgment.  Or maybe you're just not writing all of Alfrond's reactions into your posts.  Most likely, it's both.

 

I really don't want to let this go, but if we keep going at it, no one will come out happy.  So, I'll drop it here, and be a little more thorough with my stipulations next time I want a certain result IC.

 

However, one last addendum, directly from the Codex:

CODEX

By channeling moisture and vapor in the surrounding environment, Frost creates formidable defenses and lethal attacks from sub zero conditions.

This demonstrates that Frost must freeze pre-existing vapor or moisture.  So, expansion is an issue.

[Renegade343]

However, one last addendum, directly from the Codex:

CODEX

By channeling moisture and vapor in the surrounding environment, Frost creates formidable defenses and lethal attacks from sub zero conditions.

This demonstrates that Frost must freeze pre-existing vapor or moisture.  So, expansion is an issue.

Fine, but I raise one counter-point: 

 

Ice decreases in density once you pass through 4°C (which can be seen through charts if you look it up). Since your Codex evidence states that Frost attacks and defends from 'sub zero conditions', and since I would also assume that the room is somewhere at a comfortable temperature (i.e.: Not burning hot, nor freezing cold) as everyone was in there without much problems, nor is the room melting/starting to pile frost and water vapour, that means to go to sub zero (let us just say that it is around somewhere between -100°C to -200°C), it would have to drop to there very quickly, and it would thus be akin to flash freezing for tissue (i.e.: Minimal damage done, since there is little time for large crystals to form and thus water to expand).

 

So, expansion can be an issue, but due to very low temperatures (and very negative change of temperature), it is rather insignificant. 

[Renegade343]

When it comes to the act in general, I might be misunderstanding a bit. After he breaks off the main chunk of ice, do the little tiny ice-fillings stay in the ceiling or no? If they do stay, that's what I'm referring to when talking about the ice melting. If the little fillings go with the main chunk then I'm cool with it (pardon the ice pun). Either way, the little indent where the scorched metal used to be would likely be noticeable and thus could use some treatment.

Based on gravity (and the relative smoothness of the ice as it needs to fit into the cracks snugly), when it shatters, all of them would fall onto the floor (since ice has a rather low coefficient of friction, and I am also guessing the metal has that too, and the two of them together would also have a low coefficient of friction).

[Temperance000]

I swear it is impossible to win an argument with you, Renegade.  Fine, the flash-freeze cleaning can stay, if only so we can hate Alfrond a little bit more.

 

However, I am going to take steps to ensure that the rest of his cleaning duties are no where near so easy.