Addition To Rng

[Vaze]

Keep the core of it, sure. No need to cut anything out of it. Keep it, keep it. But...

A simple new feature could calm down all those angry tigers roaring about low drop chances, and still force us to farm, grind and sweat for all those parts and mods as it is right now anyway. I tried to figure out a way to keep the grind (and DE rich...) but also get players those eluding drops. No more 50+ missions to get one specific part 49 stocks or barrels or helmets. Notice that with the void trader, people will not simply stop farming stuff once they get everything they need. I think the time to implement this fix has come.

 

Now the part I have written an hour ago, so excuse me for repeating myself:

 

Make every drop certain after a specific amount of missions if it didn't drop before while keeping the current system intact. Meaning after 15 missions of not getting a barrel, the next mission will give it to you 100%. If you get it (by chance or by the counter overflowing), counter goes back to 0. Every other counter in the drop table (of that mission/rotation/round/wave) increments. You still need to grind, but not like 30-50 missions for one part. 

The counter only goes back to 0 after the part is awarded. There should be no 4-bit variables that overflow on multiple parts at the same time, giving one part and zeroing 5 counters. Just saying to avoid bugs. At least use 8-bit variables. If this is implemented on mods as well, use 16-bit variables for a drop after 500/1000/1500 kills/drops. This gives me another idea as well.

 

--- Update below, better idea

Edited December 22, 2014 by Vaze

[B0N3M4N]

Absolutely yes.

Actually the last released content is even more hard to farm compared to the classic one, I mean today I said to me "let's do Dual Decurion" at 3PM, now is 9 and I STILL need the 50% of the parts, and I still have to do the Centaur.

Really DE I can understand the fact to use the farm for increase the game "longevity", but please doing for the 50th time the same Archwing mission, with the same map and the same mobs and STILL nothing of what are you searching, this is freaking absurd.

Really calm yourself with these low drop rates, at the end we're human, not machines that doesn't feel any kind of frustration on doing the same things another time for getting nothing.

[DSpite]

Would it no be easier to just let players trade X duplicates of one part of a gun for 1 part of some other part of the gun from the Trader?

 

Rather then start tracking a TON of numbers on each account?

[MacJabber]

Grind IS really hard... I am farming for my freakin' Odonata yes ODONATA for like 3 weeks now and I never get that 1 part because of RNG drops or whatnot... I totally agree with this..

[DSpite]

Absolutely yes.

Actually the last released content is even more hard to farm compared to the classic one, I mean today I said to me "let's do Dual Decurion" at 3PM, now is 9 and I STILL need the 50% of the parts, and I still have to do the Centaur.

Really DE I can understand the fact to use the farm for increase the game "longevity", but please doing for the 50th time the same Archwing mission, with the same map and the same mobs and STILL nothing of what are you searching, this is freaking absurd.

Really calm yourself with these low drop rates, at the end we're human, not machines that doesn't feel any kind of frustration on doing the same things another time for getting nothing.

 

Hold on a sec. You are doing it to yourself.

 

This is not a problem with the game, it's a problem with "I must complete everything" people. I see this argument with "increase <insert assassin squad name here> spawn rates" because they are missing a Hate or a Detron. You don't get to farm THEM, it's THEM that get to farm you. Hell, they should get stronger every time they take you out, just to get extra annoying.

 

DE does not, and should not, make new stuff instantly available easily, ie, make the drop tables "non grindy". That can happen after a grace period of it being in the market. I fail to see why it should be any other way for a company that is trying to make money to actually MAKE new stuff.

 

If people paid monthly fees, a LOT of suggestions in the forums start making sense, but we don't, so the suggestions are completely worthless.

 

You pay $10 a month? Sure, we will make sure that 10 runs tops makes a gun, and we won't even bother having it on the market. You pay $0 per month? Then RNG for it, and be thankful you can get it at all.

 

 

Grind IS really hard... I am farming for my freakin' Odonata yes ODONATA for like 3 weeks now and I never get that 1 part because of RNG drops or whatnot... I totally agree with this..

 

Serious? I had MULTIPLE parts in a longer run, built it on one go.

Edited December 22, 2014 by DSpite

[Vaze]

doing for the 50th time the same Archwing mission, with the same map and the same mobs and STILL nothing of what are you searching, this is freaking absurd.

 

Remember people, grind must stay in! Those are the requirements. This is just to remove extreme cases. No fancy free weapons or anything like that. But seriously, after a couple dozen missions with a drop table of 4 parts, a reward is necessary. That is my point. Oh, and the above picture. Let the counter overflow at 5*(parts)+5 if a part drops, to make it more appealing and reasonable.

[DSpite]

 

Remember people, grind must stay in! Those are the requirements. This is just to remove extreme cases. No fancy free weapons or anything like that. But seriously, after a couple dozen missions with a drop table of 4 parts, a reward is necessary. That is my point. Oh, and the above picture. Let the counter overflow at 5*(parts)+5 if a part drops, to make it more appealing and reasonable.

 

Your suggestion is a perfectly reasonable suggestion that stops people actually GOING insane.

 

But this is also about money. Perfectly well balanced and sane individuals may not part with money, and "free loaders" should have no expectations to be catered to. There is basically no point in making it easy for you to get stuff, because getting that stuff makes it easier to get the next stuff, and so on.

 

Global Agenda had a booster on their market that gave two rolls when getting items in the missions. It's far more reasonable for DE to do that then use your idea, which makes them no money whatsoever.

Edited December 22, 2014 by DSpite

[StahlEngel]

Always remember there is a fine line between convenience items and Pay To Win, making an item that doubles your chance to get a reward is pay to win, with that mentality of DE must make money , they might as well go with we're not gonna put any new frames into the game, you just have to buy them fro the market. the whole point of free to play is to keep a large player base going and making a small profit for minor convenience items such as regeneration potions , xp items , and the big seller cosmetic items. if you make the grind for something to ridiculous for 1 item then the player will not bother and then their friends won't bother and then they will quit the game and their friends will quit and the game will die.

[rockscl]

 

Make every drop certain after a specific amount of missions if it didn't drop before while keeping the current system intact. 

 

 

 

This is known as Pseudo random, every fail attempt increases the chance, taking it back to 0 when theres success, already implemented in dota

[Bibliothekar]

DE does not, and should not, make new stuff instantly available easily, ie, make the drop tables "non grindy".

But at the same time they shouldn't continue to put more and more Prime parts into T4 Survival Rotation C, either. At least not without moving a few older parts away from there.

[FattyKracken]

atleast make it a lil easier with farming for mesa would be nice.  btw, why the hell would genieer or corpus have his navs?  wouldnt his new mobs have his nav's or atleast give some hit lore wise to his location?  its getting harder and harder to get navs due to the slowing of people going for this frame...  i rather slaughter the entire nation of infested for his navs then piss with waiting for corpus/ genieer to feel like giving them....

[Vaze]

If not an overflowing counter for each part, then a counter increasing the "percentage of the chance" exponentially with an exponent of 5 maybe. (x/10)^5
After 10 missions the chance of drop would be (actual drop chance)x1,01. After 15 missions x1,076. After 20 missions x1,32. After 25 missions x1,977. After 30 missions x3,43.

The exponent could be adjusted for the "Insanity Point" - number of missions played, where anger takes over, controllers are flying into walls, screens are getting smashed, Warframes are getting uninstalled and new topics are being made here. After the counter reaches a certain number a new function could be used. The whole point of using exponential functions is that small numbers remain relatively small, thus no big change (1-15 missions), but after a while it starts to rise fast. At the properly chosen insanity Point. If you thing about it, if a part has a drop chance of 3%, after 25 missions it would be only 5,931% not counting the increased chances of every other part, which does decrease the chance of getting that particular part by a little bit.

x => number of missions played (could be divided by a number other than 10)

[FattyKracken]

If not an overflowing counter for each part, then a counter increasing the "percentage of the chance" exponentially with an exponent of 5 maybe. (x/10)^5

After 10 missions the chance of drop would be (actual drop chance)x1,01. After 15 missions x1,076. After 20 missions x1,32. After 25 missions x1,977. After 30 missions x3,43.

The exponent could be adjusted for the "Insanity Point" - number of missions played, where anger takes over, controllers are flying into walls, screens are getting smashed, Warframes are getting uninstalled and new topics are being made here. After the counter reaches a certain number a new function could be used. The whole point of using exponential functions is that small numbers remain relatively small, thus no big change (1-15 missions), but after a while it starts to rise fast. At the properly chosen insanity Point. If you thing about it, if a part has a drop chance of 3%, after 25 missions it would be only 5,931% not counting the increased chances of every other part, which does decrease the chance of getting that particular part by a little bit.

x => number of missions played (could be divided by a number other than 10)

i wish i knew excel....  and ya, this system would be nice, still enough rng to make us farm but now will new Hope added!

[Vaze]

i wish i knew excel....  and ya, this system would be nice, still enough rng to make us farm but now will new Hope added!

Try doing 25 mobile defenses in a row. A lot, I know. Still only double chance. Actually less than double, if other stuff is not dropping as well. After that point I think everybody would deserve the much needed part. That is a rusty metal spike in "uranus". We cannot have spikes, we have math!

Somebody gets lucky in 5 missions - they won't know the difference. Somebody sweats blood - they get rewarded for it... after only a few more missions.

The devs probably have hearts and when they are reading that people are going crazy after dozens of missions trying to get the last part of a pistol, they might be thinking: "Ok, that is just cruel!"

Edited December 22, 2014 by Vaze

[FattyKracken]

 

The devs probably have hearts and when they are reading that people are going crazy after dozens of missions trying to get the last part of a pistol, the might be thinking: "Ok, that is just cruel!"

i 100% agree, but sadly, like alot of us know, there is that part of DE that main goal is staying afloat, and sadly it means not being able to do all the fun ideas.  i know if money was never an issues, that we'd see alot more "here something cool and awesome that also supports more fun for everyone" vs "heres something that pretty fun, but we had to slow you down a bit so those spend wouldnt feel there money was for nothing."

 

either way, i support DE when i can, and understand that sometimes, even when you know its not going to go over well with the CB, that you just gotta do it.  i've always been told in the call center business, " fake it till you make it"  thought i have 0 idea why i even brought that up.  time to get some Zzzz's

[LABAL]

The devs probably have hearts and when they are reading that people are going crazy after dozens of missions trying to get the last part of a pistol, the might be thinking: "Ok, that is just cruel!"

... And laugh.