Is Anyone Else In This Game Bothered That Modding Your Gun Is Almost Always About More Damage.

[Zerrien]

Time and time again it's been brought up.

 

95% of builds are pure-damage.

 

The other 5% are special snowflake builds that think they're being helpful.

[FattyKracken]

There are certain mods that are vital to make it remotely useful. I too would like to see more room for augments or attachments that change playstyle, not power.

(What exactly, i dont know but yeah... +1)

kinda like boarderlands 2 weapons sometimes?

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

The only time i had any fun Modding my weapon was with the Grattaka modding with with lots of Status and and corrosive, pretty fun watching the enemy armor melt away, and the Thysis with both Corrosive and Radiation quickly turned normal missions into confusing free for all Arenas XD

 

We need more utility spells like the proyectile speed ones and increase the power of other non damage mods like the increased Mag size.

[FattyKracken]

The only time i had any fun Modding my weapon was with the Grattaka modding with with lots of Status and and corrosive, pretty fun watching the enemy armor melt away, and the Thysis with both Corrosive and Radiation quickly turned normal missions into confusing free for all Arenas XD

 

We need more utility spells like the proyectile speed ones and increase the power of other non damage mods like the increased Mag size.

this, i agree with this.  i was so happy to see a projectile speed for shotguns know that Drakgoon will throw hot sharp S#&$ faster then before.  im actually buying it again, and going to patato/forma it to see whats it can do.

[Innocent_Flower]

- rank of the mod produces upgraded effects of the elemental mod e.g. Rank 0 Ice elemental mods procs a slow effect while max procs freeze effect

I don't like most of your post but I really like this suggestion. 

[turbinea]

I agree with argument that those 4 mods are removing possibility for for player to explore alternative ways to mod your weapon.

From 8 slots, 4 are mandatory if u have them. At least 2-3 are used in elemental damage, so i if you are lucky, you have 1-2 slot(s) to 'explore' mods.

What we have here is basically rainbow build effect with non elemental mods. Everyone is slapping all of those mods in regardless of weapon. Bow, sniper rifle, machine gun.

Each of them modify behavior of modded weapon in significant way, so i do not understand why we still have those.

(I mean it in sense that Damage 2.0 was intended to remove rainbow builds, i understand effect of serration :) )

 

Personally, i would remove Serration completely and made H Caliber, Shred and Multishot into auras.

Perhaps with stronger effect in some cases but only 1 aura per loadout.

Elemental mods should have damage lowered and their effects more prominent, perhaps with CC with small AoE.

Combined with skill based combat, where head-shot or hit other sensitive areas would increase Status or Crit damage would add spice and much needed variety. You could still one-shot most of the enemies but it would require some effort which would be rewarded in various, not purely damage effects.

 

All this would naturally need overall adjustment of enemy stats for player to have chance to succeed in missions.

 

Reasoning behind this logic is, tenno are supreme, god like warriors of imaginable skill and prowess. 

Multiforma boltorP has nothing to do with skill or prowess.

Edited December 22, 2014 by turbinea

[Helicitous]

I'm fine with weapon modding as-is. Of all the changes I've seen DE make, mods 2.0 has been one of the most streamlined and least annoying. Eight slots, enough room to play without getting overly fiddly.

 

 I suspect that removing serration wouldn't lead to people making freeform style choices - people would just figure out the new optimum setup and use that, leaving us right back where we started.

 

Also, high-powered rifles help keep tower 4 runs from being more of a grinding slog. Literally, a modded-up Boltor Prime keeps the game from getting tedious at high levels.

 

(Sorry, MMO hardcore folk - I'm here to play a game, not hold down a part-time job!)

[RyouichiKitsune]

honestly....i cant believe im saying this. i think the mods should be actual. MODIFICATIONS. not just UMF.

something akin to blacklight retribution...a mod is like a barrel ( barrel diffusion) ..something you add to the gun. make the guns more customizable and personal


but with that, that wouldnt fix anything. honestly i dont see a way to fix it when were this far deep into the unbalancing but heres an idea.

 

 

things like serration and heavy calibur. throw that s*** away. make it so its like our warframes. the damage increased ( up to 150% like serration. [yes i know its 165. i dontcare] upon level up. 150/30=5%.) so if you have a gun on lvl 1 and it does 100 damage...leveling it up would do 105 damage. 

but thats not all. elemental mods. do NOT increase damage...they only change the element. this would emphasize status chance more. and things like clip size NEED to be relevant to the average clip size. looking at things like primarys...most primarys are battle rifles. with a 60 ish clip. set that as the standard.

now what would be a decent upgrade for a 60 clip? maybe 90 bullets ya think? well if its the grakata. 90 bullets arent anything. so heres my proposal
make it relevant to the gun. the grakata since it shoots bizarely fast should be a 100%+  increase and the braton should be somewher ein the 50% range

maybe base it on firerate? I HAVE NO IDEA. but something needs done.

 

 

i notice too all i do is stack for damage.....and thats it. i mean i MAY put a hush on my marelok but. fulldamage all the way :/

[turbinea]

 

 people would just figure out the new optimum setup and use that, leaving us right back where we started.

 

true, player would find optimal setup but it wouldn't purely about damage. Imagine for example magnetic proc would behave like mag's shield polarize in small area around  affected enemy. Wouldn't that be interesting setup to use, instead of pure damage?

 

 

 

 

now what would be a decent upgrade for a 60 clip? maybe 90 bullets ya think? well if its the grakata. 90 bullets arent anything. so heres my proposal

make it relevant to the gun. the grakata since it shoots bizarely fast should be a 100%+  increase and the braton should be somewher ein the 50% range

maybe base it on firerate? I HAVE NO IDEA. but something needs done.

 

 

i notice too all i do is stack for damage.....and thats it. i mean i MAY put a hush on my marelok but. fulldamage all the way :/

perhaps two types of extended magazine could be the solution. One that increases magazine size 100% useful for magazine with larger capacity, second  -  that adds 10 bullets to mag which is something snipers would benefit from. (Numbers are pure random input)

Edited December 22, 2014 by turbinea

[Thomatos]

I don't like most of your post but I really like this suggestion. 

 

My suggestion on my post is just an example to elaborate on my overall point that damage modding needs to be controlled and more utility should be emphasized. I really think you misunderstood the entire meaning of my post. -_-

[RyouichiKitsune]

 

perhaps two types of extended magazine could be the solution. One that increases magazine size 100% useful for magazine with larger capacity, second  -  that adds 10 bullets to mag which is something snipers would benefit from. (Numbers are pure random input)

as i said it would be relevant to the clip size and ammo. i feel it would work very well. "Clip Mutation" c:

[gnat6]

Multishot is also in a weird position, most of the time it's simply double the damage. No idea how to fix it though.

For multishot I would split it into 2 different mods version 1 would fire a second bullet with every shot but would use an additional round of ammo so you get twice the damage but you use twice as much ammo and version 2 would split every bullet into 2 separate bullets that would have half the damage but would still allow you to land multiple procs with each shot which can be very useful on status based weapons.

[RyouichiKitsune]

For multishot I would split it into 2 different mods version 1 would fire a second bullet with every shot but would use an additional round of ammo so you get twice the damage but you use twice as much ammo and version 2 would split every bullet into 2 separate bullets that would have half the damage but would still allow you to land multiple procs with each shot which can be very useful on status based weapons.

orrr make it fire the 2nd bullet slowly. like instead of -- it would be like -....-

how that would work on automaticas i have no ide.a..

[bluntpuffer]

Don't we all know by now that this game is still under development? 

 

I'm sure they have thought about these things long before you thought about it.

 

Putting the actual concept in the game is a different thing though but i bet this game will eventually receive these kind of changes

 

It has probably not been prioritized yet cause there are tons of other fun factors wich need to be worked on aswell.

[Tyrian3k]

Well, personally, the first thing I'd have done is remove all mods that give +damage and +multishot. Those are utterly pointless and only linearly add straight damage. The damage lost from the lack of these mods could be added while leveling up. Similar to how Warframes get more shields, energy and health when they level up, weapons could gain firepower.

 

Then, only one single elemental mod per weapon category should remain, so bye bye to all the +ele-dam +status mods and all other affected mods like blaze or wildfire.

 

Next I would dedicate certain slots to certain purposes or maybe certain parts of the weapon.

 

Two slots for the barrel (elemental/physical damage etc.), one for the (reload speed/clip size etc.)magazine, one for the action (fire rate, chance to not consume ammo) two for the ammo (Punch through, projectile speed, status chance etc.), one for the sights (Zoom, accuracy, recoil etc.).

Finally I'm thinkin of one specialty slot where you can give your weapon a certain attribute like the enemy ragdolling to hurt enemies that get hit by the corpse, a chance to create an explosion (Thunderbolt), riccochet to the next enemy in range and deal half damage to him etc. Syndicate mods would fall into this category with their proc effect.

 

Players who had mods removed should receive compensation of course in the form of fusion cores and credits.

 

The problem is that an overhaul like this would merely cause whining among people who can't just go full on damage any more, even though the system allows (or rather forces) you to specialize your weapon in a certain way instead of just going for damage, damage, damage and some more damage.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Tyrian3k

[Vaze]

For this to be fixed would require a lot of changes. In short: Warfare 2.0

My theory is: Remove enemy levels and set up mission levels. Higher level mission means more enemies (of the same "level"), advanced types (bombard, napalm) in higher percentages, better AI (more taking cover, moving in groups, using abilities, dodging), slightly increased damage and health (+-25% of base health). Change damage mods to only slight increase in damage. Other mods add special effects (fire, ice, stagger), crazy effects (glue, stroboscope, blinding laser, magnetizing, gravity wave, weaker-warframe-abilities-in-bullets, fishnet grenade, emp, ricochet), accuracy, magazine size, recoil reduction, crosshair types... but some of these should be attachment mods rather than standard mods and they should go into another section.

All in all, every weapon would be almost equally powerful but with different unique special effects. Other effect can be modded in. Every enemy in every mission would be the same but with slight changes, much greater numbers and better tactics.

Right now the game is more like an arcade shooter from the old days, where the only thing that could improve was damage. In Warframe a grenade to the head could be much weaker than a pistol round to the foot. Makes no sense at all. I'll stop right here with that. Without major changes this game will not leave beta. Simply because there would be way too many stuff to change and optimize later on, when people get bored. After they implement the VR simulation next year, they should test some new game modes on us there, instead of putting it straight into the game permanently.

 

--- Just finished writing when Tyrian3k posted. We have some similar ideas.

[Don_T_Shoot]

This thread: Rearranging deck chairs

 

One way to boil this thread down might be that we've mostly figured out how to dial in the optimal damage so people are inventing new systems.  New systems that would be optimized for damage under whatever the rules the new system set.  But it will still be for damage, even if you lower that damage, it is still just damage because that is what guns do period, end of story.   The pointless activity is pointless.

 

Now, if you want to lower damage so that planetary (Non-endless void) enemies take more to kill than one shot, fine but you can save many extra steps by just....lowering damage.

 

Convoluted contrivances aren't necessary.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Don_T_Shoot

[MrPie5]

I modded my Glaxion to do pure blast damage with a 99% status chance. For some reason, my friends no longer want to do conclave with me.

[Tr1ples1xer]

I thought all tennos strived to one shot everything.

[Thomatos]

Don't we all know by now that this game is still under development? 

 

I'm sure they have thought about these things long before you thought about it.

 

Putting the actual concept in the game is a different thing though but i bet this game will eventually receive these kind of changes

 

It has probably not been prioritized yet cause there are tons of other fun factors wich need to be worked on aswell.

 

So does that mean we should not say anything to at least have some impact on the game's direction? In that case there wouldn't be a feedback section already.

 

And, especially when it's still in development, all the more we players who double as playtesters need to voice out our issues such as this thread.

 

If this mod issue is known and not prioritized, developing on Archwing further would just mean a deeper grave for DE.

 

Other fun factors? Priority? I'd say the modding system itself is more than 60% of Warframe. Almost everything hinges on how the mod system functions, and if they don't do something now, as I said, developing on other things will just make the matter even worse.

[Sibernetika]

 

It bothers me since Mods 2.0 was introduced. Current system does not provide room for any imagination. Every build is a damage build with very minor variations. DE did not even release a weapon, and I'm already know what will I put in it. Once you maxed Serration, Multishots out - you can safely forget about two slots. These mods can be just passive upgrades at this point.

 

Why not just go in that direction? Weapon damage could scale with lvl, and we could pick a perk(Punch Through, Bigger Magazine etc) say once in 10 levels. Then add some really interesting mods, like more headshot damage, extra damage if enemy is on lover ground etc.

 

this.. we need this

[Innocent_Flower]

I modded my Glaxion to do pure blast damage with a 99% status chance. For some reason, my friends no longer want to do conclave with me.

teach me.

[Shifted]

I agree. Your Post is completely bonkers. 

 

Seration intergrated in levels would make it even harder for a player with everything to enjoy lower down content, or a player with nothing to enjoy higher. 

Oh aren't you a smartass.

 

Remove all the mods from your gear, now you can "enjoy" your "lower" content.

 

I'd rather have a mod slot that actually lets me MODIFY the weapon.

[Tyrian3k]

Oh aren't you a smartass.

 

Remove all the mods from your gear, now you can "enjoy" your "lower" content.

 

I'd rather have a mod slot that actually lets me MODIFY the weapon.

 

I agree. Everything revolves around getting the highest dps instead of having weapons that already deal good damage and can be modified with utility stuff and things that make your shots do more than just hit the enemy.

 

Mods that let status procs affect a whole area around the enemy, bullets that riccochet to another enemy, bullets that ragdoll killed enemies. , Things that increase accuracy, clip size, reload speed and whatnot have to become valid choices.

 

Mods should be customization to make it more fun to use, not just add damage, damage, damage, damage, damage, damage, damage and even more damage.

[TwiceDead]

The faster you kill something the less time your target has to retaliate to your overwhelming assault. 

It's boring, yes, but it's also logical. The enemies damage and health scale, so you need to get your gear to a point where you can match that damage and health levels for as long as possible or else you'll fall behind and be deadweight to your team. CC weaponry is not really much of a thing because of the limited amount of weapons with a decent status chance, and since you'll be wanting to one-shot your opponents as much as possible CC weaponry is kind of pointless, unless you're on a frame that doesn't have CC. 

 

What's the point in CC if you can't kill the target? You could rely on your teammates to do it, sure, but I am certain they'd rather have you dish out as much damage as you can yourself. 

Now I am not saying you can't do CC and Damage, because you can, and it's the best option. I'm just saying modding for damage is logical. 
 

 

 

It bothers me since Mods 2.0 was introduced. Current system does not provide room for any imagination. Every build is a damage build with very minor variations. DE did not even release a weapon, and I'm already know what will I put in it. Once you maxed Serration, Multishots out - you can safely forget about two slots. These mods can be just passive upgrades at this point.

 

Why not just go in that direction? Weapon damage could scale with lvl, and we could pick a perk(Punch Through, Bigger Magazine etc) say once in 10 levels. Then add some really interesting mods, like more headshot damage, extra damage if enemy is on lover ground etc.

I support this as the direction to go in if a chance for change is ever on the table. 

Edited December 22, 2014 by TwiceDead