Nullifier's Bubble Isn't Affected By Damage, And Here's Proof

[Katinka]

 You want proof that soma/amprex can destroy eximus bubbles in pretty much less than a second?  I can give you proof.  Just ask.

 

I would actually like to see that proof and know what Amprex build you use.  I regularly solo T1D for other keys, Forma and standing.  Is a relaxing ride with my Frost and Amprex.  I'll admit it's no challenge but it's an easy source of keys and forma.  Anyway, the Amprex versus an Arctic Eximus is a waste of ammo.  Most of a clip gone to kill one guy.  That is not how to conserve ammo with the Amprex.  If I see an Arctic bubble, I shoot enemies in the other direction for a while and turn back to kill the Eximus when the timer runs out on his bubble.

 

On another note, anyone know how fast you can fire an Opticor if you aren't fully charging it?  I tried a non-charged Paris against Nullifiers yesterday and it was alright but I don't use the Opticor much so can't really judge it.

[Rehero]

On another note, anyone know how fast you can fire an Opticor if you aren't fully charging it?  I tried a non-charged Paris against Nullifiers yesterday and it was alright but I don't use the Opticor much so can't really judge it.

Not fast enough to merit it plus even if you did it you will likely be reloading before you get the final shot off needed to kill him.

[Liminal]

And while it may be in the feedback section that doesn't mean people cant over react to certain situations. Over reacting can fall into that whine category.

"Overreaction" is subjective. Most arguments against nullifiers I've seen here are met with "that's the way it is". Such a great counter argument.

Complaining about feedback can also be considered whining.

[Tyrian3k]

haha, yeah sure says the guy who says high rof weapons are at a disadvantage.  You want proof that soma/amprex can destroy eximus bubbles in pretty much less than a second?  I can give you proof.  Just ask.

 

The fact that you call me stupid is beyond me.  I mean really, it doesn't matter if they don't crit against the shields.  They still do enough damage WITHOUT CRITS to make it explode.  And what about boltor prime, the weapon that doesn't need crits and still dishes out massive damage anyway + high RoF + puncture?  Give me a disadvantage for boltor prime, PLEASE.  I'd love to hear you spew more bull#$%$ about how all these incredibly overpowered weapons are at some kind of disadvantage.  Call me stupid when you've apparently never played this game before lol.  Some nerve you've got kid.

 

And that's the only thing you've put up in defense for high ROF weapons.  That they're 'bad' against eximus shields.  Anything else you'd care to mention and possibly over exaggerate about?

You two are talking past each other. Plznohurtme is talking about Soma and other crit weapons like bows not applying crits to bubbles of Nullifiers and Arctic eximus. He's stating that they are at a disadvantage compared to other weapons that do not rely on crits because crit weapns only deal as much damage as they do because of the crits. A Soma that doesn't crit deals only 229 damage per shot and a Soma Prime only 275. This is with Serration, Heavy Caliber, Split Chamber and two elemental mods. A criticals make up about 80% of the Soma's damage output.

As a comparison, a Boltor deals roughly 2000 damage without crits.

Same applies to bows and snipers, which are low rof weapons.

A Dread with Serration, Split Chamber and two elemental mods only deals 2820 damage on a non-critical hit.

His issue is about crit weapons being penalized, not high rof weapons being penalized.

[dragonkingdx]

"Overreaction" is subjective. Most arguments against nullifiers I've seen here are met with "that's the way it is". Such a great counter argument.

Complaining about feedback can also be considered whining.

same can be said of those who say "but its not as good as this weapon" (which isnt a very good argument to begin with because different weaps different purposes vs a mechanic that has a function preventing the unit from being taken out in 1 shot) since that is the entire argument in a nutshell for people who dislike how the nullifiers preform against slower RoF weapons.

[Liminal]

same can be said of those who say "but its not as good as this weapon" (which isnt a very good argument to begin with because different weaps different purposes vs a mechanic that has a function preventing the unit from being taken out in 1 shot) since that is the entire argument in a nutshell for people who dislike how the nullifiers preform against slower RoF weapons.

Thing is when they say for example "the opticor sucks against nullifiers" they imply it's because of a significantly higher TTK or other issues, and many of those issues are non-debatable (the opticor does have issues dealing with these guys, so does a tigris or the vectis). Discussing if that actually makes the weapon inferior is another matter, but you are attacking an argument and that's okay.

 

You can definitely have a reason to consider something an overreaction, but barely any (if any at all) of your reasons for that can be objective.

More importantly: saying things like "people are whining" and "l2p" is attacking the users posting their arguments, not the arguments themselves.

[ObviousLee]

just tossin this out there, but there are more than a few handful of weapons that are fully endgame viable these days. what i feel might be the actual issue is some may not have those weapons up to snuff where they need to be for endgame content. i have at least 3-4 weapons that i rotate through that are all t4 viable, namely my phage, embolist, and obex are what i use(note the insane close range) on my zephyr. there are plenty of endgame options to handle nullifiers, and it's silly to expect every single weapon to perform at optimum levels against all situations.

 

also, yes, it is expected for someone to have to make a sacrifice or two for endgame content. contrary to popular belief, the dev's DO want you to be capable of dying, instead of hallowed gods of destruction. we're supposed to be powerful, not omnipotent.

[Tyrian3k]

just tossin this out there, but there are more than a few handful of weapons that are fully endgame viable these days. what i feel might be the actual issue is some may not have those weapons up to snuff where they need to be for endgame content. i have at least 3-4 weapons that i rotate through that are all t4 viable, namely my phage, embolist, and obex are what i use(note the insane close range) on my zephyr. there are plenty of endgame options to handle nullifiers, and it's silly to expect every single weapon to perform at optimum levels against all situations.

 

also, yes, it is expected for someone to have to make a sacrifice or two for endgame content. contrary to popular belief, the dev's DO want you to be capable of dying, instead of hallowed gods of destruction. we're supposed to be powerful, not omnipotent.

 

Expecting optimal results everywhere is stupid, I agree, but in this case, some weapons are borderline useless in endless void missions, solely because of Nullifiers. Even with a Latron Wraith I can easily run into trouble if I run into more than one Nullifier, needless to say that even slower weapons can barely function at all.

 

The problem is that the performance gap in this case is far too big. If I can oneshot an enemy with a Hek for example, I can kill the same enemy with at most 5 shots of a Boltor Prime. Both weapons can use their full potential in this case.

On Nullifiers, however, the strengths of weapons with high damage per shot are entirely removed and their overall potential completely ignored because of a game mechanic.

 

If I run with a Hek, I'll generally use a secondary that is useful in those situations in which the  Hek is bad: Long range encounters. So I use a Marelok. Solely because of Nullifiers, this combination ceased to be viable in the Void because neither of the weapons can easily take care of the bubble.

 

A similar thing that hinders weak weapons would be if  an enemy would only take 100 damage for each shot if the shot doesn't deal more that 3000 damage which would also be a broken mechanic in my eyes.

[Katinka]

Not fast enough to merit it plus even if you did it you will likely be reloading before you get the final shot off needed to kill him.

 

Thanks for that but I figured I'd go try it out for myself.  Anecdotal evidence ahoy!

 

Admittedly, I did NOT try it out 60 minutes into a T4Surv.  I'm not going to spend that much time and effort just to find out it doesn't work well and possibly be a burden to the team.  Instead, I ventured solo into a T3Capt. since it is a more controlled environment and level makes no difference to the Nullifier bubble.  I saw a grand total of three Nullifiers compared to about ten Bombards and about ten Heavy Gunners.  The first Nullifier I couldn't properly test as I met him at a doorway by surprise.  I backed away, half charged my Opticor and fired.  His bubble popped.  Yeah, maybe I should have remembered to take Striker out of my Carrier...  The second Nullifier I met in one of the large open Y-shaped rooms with pressure pads that sometimes open loot, underneath and up an updraft.  Since I'd managed to spot him from a distance I was actually able to let experimentation begin!  I crouched by a barricade and fired a full clip of third-to-half charged shots, just enough to actually get a shot but not any more because there's no need fo rfull damage.  He moved behind a pillar, I reload as I move across to get sight again, I fire four shots.  His bubble bursts and the last shot in the second clip kills him.  The third and final Nullifier I met in a narrow corridor off one of the large halls with the spheres full of containers in the ceiling.  He had  Bombard with him!  Not that surprising since they did vastly outnumber the Nullifiers...  Anyway, I had captured both targets by this point and the Nullifiers were scarce so I didn't want the Bombard messing up the test and I ran back into the hall.  This actually gave me a chance to test something else though.  The hall swarmed with Crewmen and Lancers and two more Bombards so I took cover and picked a few off, repositioned to another pillar and picked off a few more.  They tried to flush me out, advancing on me, leaving behind the Nullifier.  I was able to clear the rest of the room and tackle him last.  Use terrain and they can be avoided.  When I went to take him on, same as last time, 5 shots, reposition and reload, 4 shots to finish the bubble, fifth for the kill.  Mods used on Opticor: Serration 10, Vile Acceleration 5, Shred 5.  No Catalyst, no Forma.

 

Tl;dr:  The Opticor can kill a Nullifier in exactly two clips if you add a fair bit of fire rate and only half charge it.

[geninrising]

Thanks for that but I figured I'd go try it out for myself.  Anecdotal evidence ahoy!

 

Admittedly, I did NOT try it out 60 minutes into a T4Surv.  I'm not going to spend that much time and effort just to find out it doesn't work well and possibly be a burden to the team.  Instead, I ventured solo into a T3Capt. since it is a more controlled environment and level makes no difference to the Nullifier bubble.  I saw a grand total of three Nullifiers compared to about ten Bombards and about ten Heavy Gunners.  The first Nullifier I couldn't properly test as I met him at a doorway by surprise.  I backed away, half charged my Opticor and fired.  His bubble popped.  Yeah, maybe I should have remembered to take Striker out of my Carrier...  The second Nullifier I met in one of the large open Y-shaped rooms with pressure pads that sometimes open loot, underneath and up an updraft.  Since I'd managed to spot him from a distance I was actually able to let experimentation begin!  I crouched by a barricade and fired a full clip of third-to-half charged shots, just enough to actually get a shot but not any more because there's no need fo rfull damage.  He moved behind a pillar, I reload as I move across to get sight again, I fire four shots.  His bubble bursts and the last shot in the second clip kills him.  The third and final Nullifier I met in a narrow corridor off one of the large halls with the spheres full of containers in the ceiling.  He had  Bombard with him!  Not that surprising since they did vastly outnumber the Nullifiers...  Anyway, I had captured both targets by this point and the Nullifiers were scarce so I didn't want the Bombard messing up the test and I ran back into the hall.  This actually gave me a chance to test something else though.  The hall swarmed with Crewmen and Lancers and two more Bombards so I took cover and picked a few off, repositioned to another pillar and picked off a few more.  They tried to flush me out, advancing on me, leaving behind the Nullifier.  I was able to clear the rest of the room and tackle him last.  Use terrain and they can be avoided.  When I went to take him on, same as last time, 5 shots, reposition and reload, 4 shots to finish the bubble, fifth for the kill.  Mods used on Opticor: Serration 10, Vile Acceleration 5, Shred 5.  No Catalyst, no Forma.

 

Tl;dr:  The Opticor can kill a Nullifier in exactly two clips if you add a fair bit of fire rate and only half charge it.

Precisely the point being that in the time it took you to kill it, the high ROF weapon could have killed 2 or 3 of them thus our outcry.

[Jylon]

what i find interesting about the nullifier bubbles is that with hitscan high rate of fire guns, you can shoot at it for exactly one second and stop and wait, and the bubble continues to shrink afterwards.  weaker hitscan  rof guns make it shrink less than stronger ones in that waiting period after that one second of shooting.  so damage involved or not, that enemy type still gets a grace period of safety.

 

i really don;t think they need nerfed as most want them, but punch-through should be allowed to allow projectiles to go through the bubble.  after all, using a mod slot for punch through does lessen its potential ultimate power it could achieve with another layer of elemental damage or such.

[ArbitUHM]

Expecting optimal results everywhere is stupid, I agree, but in this case, some weapons are borderline useless in endless void missions, solely because of Nullifiers. Even with a Latron Wraith I can easily run into trouble if I run into more than one Nullifier, needless to say that even slower weapons can barely function at all.

 

The problem is that the performance gap in this case is far too big. If I can oneshot an enemy with a Hek for example, I can kill the same enemy with at most 5 shots of a Boltor Prime. Both weapons can use their full potential in this case.

On Nullifiers, however, the strengths of weapons with high damage per shot are entirely removed and their overall potential completely ignored because of a game mechanic.

 

If I run with a Hek, I'll generally use a secondary that is useful in those situations in which the  Hek is bad: Long range encounters. So I use a Marelok. Solely because of Nullifiers, this combination ceased to be viable in the Void because neither of the weapons can easily take care of the bubble.

 

A similar thing that hinders weak weapons would be if  an enemy would only take 100 damage for each shot if the shot doesn't deal more that 3000 damage which would also be a broken mechanic in my eyes.

 

You brought a short range pseudo-sniper rifle (high damage, single target, tiny mag, low RoF, damage falloff) and a pocket sniper rifle (high damage, single target, small mag, decent RoF, good at long range).  Look at the overlap between the advantages/disadvantages of those two weapons; you brought two sniper rifles, basically, one of which outshines the other by a significant margin. That's a pretty inflexible loadout. 

 

Also, your Boltor Prime vs Hek comparison just makes the Hek look like garbage in general.  The Boltor Prime is basically a god tier weapon that makes virtually every other weapon look like mastery fodder regardless of their RoF, so "Boltor Prime is way better than Hek at killing nullifiers" isn't exactly a strong argument for nerfing nullifiers.  If you compare it to a similar tier weapon, like a Grakata or maybe a Braton Prime or something, then issues of ammo economy, the tactical advantages of dealing your damage all in one lump (Hek) versus having to expose yourself to return fire while you DPS them down (Grakata/Braton P), etc come into play and the comparison becomes significantly less one sided, and the necessity to bring a quick firing secondary suddenly becomes less about DE trolling sniper rifle users and more about having a tactically diverse set of weapons.

 

And people asking for advantages of low RoF weapons

- rewards skill with headshot multipliers (it's easier to precisely land a single shot on a small target rather than get every shot in a burst of automatic fire on a small target)

- allows you to use terrain to your advantage (jump out, shoot, then get back into cover)

- sniper rifles are generally more accurate at long range (recoil makes accurate autofire difficult)

Yes, nullifiers counter a lot of those advantages, but here is where it becomes a philosophical difference over whether people ought to bow to tyranny and alter their loadout to include a moderate+ RoF weapon, or DE should nerf enemies so every weapon is viable.  Have fun spinning your tires on that one for another 30 pages.

Edited January 30, 2015 by ArbitUHM

[Katinka]

Precisely the point being that in the time it took you to kill it, the high ROF weapon could have killed 2 or 3 of them thus our outcry.

 

Isn't that the case with most enemies though?  I can kill Chargers a lot quicker with my Ignis than I can with my Opticor.  Oh no!  Better nerf Chargers so shooting one causes all others in a 20m radius to spontaneously explode.  Only way to make the Opticor and Ignis balanced against them... *shrugs*

 

I feel like this is just one of those 'Sniper rifles and shotguns need looked' at moments.  We know this.  It's not just Nullifiers.

[Rehero]

Isn't that the case with most enemies though?  I can kill Chargers a lot quicker with my Ignis than I can with my Opticor.  Oh no!  Better nerf Chargers so shooting one causes all others in a 20m radius to spontaneously explode.  Only way to make the Opticor and Ignis balanced against them... *shrugs*

 

I feel like this is just one of those 'Sniper rifles and shotguns need looked' at moments.  We know this.  It's not just Nullifiers.

How much can they look at sniper rifles and shotguns, or change the weapons for that matter when the formula for shield decay just doesn't merit shooting it with a high damage low fire rate weapon. They would need to completely change each and every weapon just because of the single mob. Up to this point snipers may have been rough around the edges compared to other weapons but this is the first time that I can remember where the gap in efficiency is this huge. This gap is only caused by the formula being the way it is. I don't think I ever once complained personally about sniper rifles/any weapon for that matter up until nullifiers. I knew some weapons were just leagues better and that higher rate of fire weapons would do my play more justice but it never detoured me from using the lower rate of fire weapons as that is how I enjoyed the game.

 

Nullifiers are simply something that CAN be changed, note most people don't want it removed, to be balanced across all weapon types and for some reason there is strong opposition to that. It is obvious how much of a hindrance it is at the moment for low rate of fire weapons and I still can't comprehend why it is required for the mobs integrity for the rate of decay to be skewed in the higher rate of fire weapons favor. The "not every weapon is good in every situation" argument STILL doesn't apply to this situation.

 

I would also like to elaborate on something I said earlier. It would be one thing if they designed mobs to hinder one particular aspect of a warframe kit. Such as this mob only blocking abilities, or a mob only able to take 1 instance of damage from bullets every x period of time, or a mob that reduces bullet damage to a maximum. However, when you put multiple hindrances such as this on top of each other it just pushes people to use a specific setup. Forcing adaption can be cool, but when there is so few viable options, because the adaptation players have to resort to is so specific, it doesn't promote a healthy gameplay experience, it just reduces player options.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Rehero

[-InV-igo95862]

Isn't that the case with most enemies though?  I can kill Chargers a lot quicker with my Ignis than I can with my Opticor.  Oh no!  Better nerf Chargers so shooting one causes all others in a 20m radius to spontaneously explode.  Only way to make the Opticor and Ignis balanced against them... *shrugs*

 

I feel like this is just one of those 'Sniper rifles and shotguns need looked' at moments.  We know this.  It's not just Nullifiers.

 

Opticor can kill multiple Chargers in one shot. It is pretty effective weapon against Infested. The point of slow firing weapons that they can kill multiple enemies in one shot. Nullifier completely removes the point of using slow firing weapons.

[CapedBaldy]

Isn't that the case with most enemies though?  I can kill Chargers a lot quicker with my Ignis than I can with my Opticor.  Oh no!  Better nerf Chargers so shooting one causes all others in a 20m radius to spontaneously explode.  Only way to make the Opticor and Ignis balanced against them... *shrugs*

 

I feel like this is just one of those 'Sniper rifles and shotguns need looked' at moments.  We know this.  It's not just Nullifiers.

This sounds like the argument that Shield Polarize and Infested Impedance should work on Grineers and stuff like that if we pushed for such changes, sigh.

 

Each shot that hits the mark with Opticor means one less Charger, at least, on the screen. A lot of wasted damage, granted, but it's still achieving one shot, one kill at least that's intended of it's role.

 

With Nullifiers in play, each shot with Opticor means from something like 20k damage to 400 damage and no dead enemies.

Edited January 31, 2015 by CapedBaldy

[-InV-igo95862]

 

 

Each shot that hits the mark with Opticor means one less Charger, at least, on the screen. A lot of wasted damage, granted, but it's still achieving one shot, one kill at least that's intended of it's role.

 

Do you know that Opticor has AoE damage? It can easily kill dozens of Chargers in one shot

[CapedBaldy]

Do you know that Opticor has AoE damage? It can easily kill dozens of Chargers in one shot

'One less Charger, at least', if you're not too lucky and not firing the ground, you'll only get one Charger providing no punch through is applied.

 

So yes, I do know it has an AoE since I use Opticor quite a bit, but you can easily swap Opticor for Vectis/Vulkar and my point would still stand.

Edited January 31, 2015 by CapedBaldy

[Althran]

Expecting optimal results everywhere is stupid, I agree, but in this case, some weapons are borderline useless in endless void missions, solely because of Nullifiers. Even with a Latron Wraith I can easily run into trouble if I run into more than one Nullifier, needless to say that even slower weapons can barely function at all.

 

The problem is that the performance gap in this case is far too big. If I can oneshot an enemy with a Hek for example, I can kill the same enemy with at most 5 shots of a Boltor Prime. Both weapons can use their full potential in this case.

On Nullifiers, however, the strengths of weapons with high damage per shot are entirely removed and their overall potential completely ignored because of a game mechanic.

 

If I run with a Hek, I'll generally use a secondary that is useful in those situations in which the  Hek is bad: Long range encounters. So I use a Marelok. Solely because of Nullifiers, this combination ceased to be viable in the Void because neither of the weapons can easily take care of the bubble.

 

A similar thing that hinders weak weapons would be if  an enemy would only take 100 damage for each shot if the shot doesn't deal more that 3000 damage which would also be a broken mechanic in my eyes.

 

I agree with this.  Basically, nullifier's negate the choice to bring a weapon that has single RoF.  Be prepared to waste 10+ shots at a nullifier bubble if you're using  a single RoF weapon.

[justice2013]

I reply mistake so sorry.

Edited February 6, 2015 by justice2013

[Althran]

Isn't that the case with most enemies though?  I can kill Chargers a lot quicker with my Ignis than I can with my Opticor.  Oh no!  Better nerf Chargers so shooting one causes all others in a 20m radius to spontaneously explode.  Only way to make the Opticor and Ignis balanced against them... *shrugs*

 

I feel like this is just one of those 'Sniper rifles and shotguns need looked' at moments.  We know this.  It's not just Nullifiers.

 

it's not about buffing sniper rifles or shotguns, even though that is needed.  

 

Think of it like this:  The shield has an appetite for bullets.  The more you feed it, the more it gets full, and when it gets full it will pop.  The faster you feed it, the faster it will get full and pop.  If you can bring something that has a lot of bullets and can make it full really fast. If you don't have a lot of bullets and can't feed it fast enough, you're basically screwed.

 

It would just be best if the shield did not absorb bullets at all, so all weapons can have a fair playing ground.

[Filas312]

After Rebecca told us how it works I am kind of unsatisfied. It's a mechanic that could be improved, but probably won't.

 

The damage ceiling is a really bad idea. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by Filas312

[Althran]

After Rebecca told us how it works I am kind of unsatisfied. It's a mechanic that could be improved, but probably won't.

 

The damage ceiling is a really bad idea. 

 

I agree.  Damage ceiling mechanics aren't challenging, they're just outright annoying.  

[SleepyKitty]

Personally, i've not been using my lanka since about the time the nullifiers were introduced.  Partially because of them, but also because at about the same time it was made unable to crit on antimatter drop.  

 

That was admittedly was kinda overpowered (because lol 200k damage to all the things with one bullet and 1 skill) but at the same time, without that crit damage it's usually faster to just shoot the enemies anyway even with that slow fire rate.  Especially with the fairly high chance that AD would just do nothing anyway. 

 

Dont get me wrong, I was more or less ok with mixing up my void playstyle and the quanta ~has~ been fun, but you cant take slow firing weaponry even to a relatively normal planet mission now. 

 

I certainly wanted to, having not used my lanka in ages.... so i brought it along to what would surely be the perfect mission: second syndicate mission of the day..... a resque.

 

This went really well....untill a nullifier walked around the corner with 6 other enemies.  I proceed to take the other guys out (they ran outside the field) but my hostage goes down to his lanka as i put 5 rounds into the shield.  I proceed to res hostage and then reload.after which time hostage is dead again.  And then i'm 2 shotted myself (through a wall) as i'm reloding again from wailing away once more on the regenned shield.  Sigh. 

Mabe shouldn'ta gone with no vitality and a half leveled frame, but loosing two max rank medallions just because i was solo and wanting to use what used to be a really fun weapon on a level 25ish mission that should totally reward using silent weaponry is kinda disappointing i guess. :/

 

It just seems like this would be so easy to fix though (for my lanka at least.... other weapons might well still be useless).  Either let my gun with 5 meters of punch through reach the thing i'm shooting at on first or second shot.  Or have a crazy diffraction mechanic or something that you can use skill to get around.

 

Ok venting over ^_^

Edited February 12, 2015 by SleepyKitty

[Althran]

Personally, i've not been using my lanka since about the time the nullifiers were introduced.  Partially because of them, but also because at about the same time it was made unable to crit on antimatter drop.  

 

That was admittedly was kinda overpowered (because lol 200k damage to all the things with one bullet and 1 skill) but at the same time, without that crit damage it's usually faster to just shoot the enemies anyway even with that slow fire rate.  Especially with the fairly high chance that AD would just do nothing anyway. 

 

Dont get me wrong, I was more or less ok with mixing up my void playstyle and the quanta ~has~ been fun, but you cant take slow firing weaponry even to a relatively normal planet mission now. 

 

I certainly wanted to, having not used my lanka in ages.... so i brought it along to what would surely be the perfect mission: second syndicate mission of the day..... a resque.

 

This went really well....untill a nullifier walked around the corner with 6 other enemies.  I proceed to take the other guys out (they ran outside the field) but my hostage goes down to his lanka as i put 5 rounds into the shield.  I proceed to res hostage and then reload.after which time hostage is dead again.  And then i'm 2 shotted myself (through a wall) as i'm reloding again from wailing away once more on the regenned shield.  Sigh. 

Mabe shouldn'ta gone with no vitality and a half leveled frame, but loosing two max rank medallions just because i was solo and wanting to use what used to be a really fun weapon on a level 25ish mission that should totally reward using silent weaponry is kinda disappointing i guess. :/

 

It just seems like this would be so easy to fix though (for my lanka at least.... other weapons might well still be useless).  Either let my gun with 5 meters of punch through reach the thing i'm shooting at on first or second shot.  Or have a crazy diffraction mechanic or something that you can use skill to get around.

 

Ok venting over ^_^

 

What baffles me, is that case after case of this keeps being posted to this thread, and yet there's still nothing being done about it.  At this point, it wouldn't have been hard to just have the shield not absorb bullets.  Why they are keeping in a broken game mechanic this long is beyond me.