Bring Back Iron Skin Face Tanking

[SIDESTRE4M]

This is not how it works.

 

Mirage cannot use it as panicbutton, because you don't know beforehand if she will take a few hits or just die instantly. Rhino can press 2 or press 4 depending on level.

 

Mesa doesn't have anything other than damage. Shooting gallery cc is just nice to have and doesn't save you at all. She has nothing to back her up really other than a bit more damage. Rhino even buffs ability damage and can snare a large area if needed.

 

Valkyr is more or less melee oriented. Of course, nothing stops you from running arround with a gun during armor buff, but that's not optimal either.

 

Rhino is strong in its sum. Not just one part. This is why I'm very hesitant to agree to any buffs. He isn't a frame you see so often without a reason.

[UnknownGunneryChief]

He's supposed to be the tankiest because I said so. 

-snip-

Fixed it for ya there mate.

 

In all seriousness, that is exactly what you mean but don't understand it. What proof you have that he has to be the tankiest? Old Warframe videos where every single frame just stands out in the open tanking fire and killing everything, not just Rhino? Because he's very big? None of your already listed "proof" fragments actually prove anything else but you trying to redeem yourself and hide that inner wish of Rhino becoming that press-2-and-go-afk frame. Every frame falls off at some point, and Rhino falls off on T3-T4 only (not counting in Corpus Nullifiers since most of you Rhinoobs simply dash into the bubble and get popped because you all build for IS but forget that you have a load of shields and health which you can increase with Redirection and Vitality...).

 

Previously he had godmode for every mission and level. Now he has godmode for starmap and semi-godmode for T1 and T2. For T3 and T4 he compensates with his CC and team-buff that stays on the target (unlike Mirage's augment), no matter how far they go (unlike Nova's MPrime).

 

As Vitalis_Inamorta already said, cry us a river. This thread is simply polluting the forums with no real purpose but your nostalgia of how OP Rhino was.

[geninrising]

 

He doesn't need to be immortal, he just needs iron skin to be as good as any other damage reduction power in the game.  

Ok folks he asked for it.

 

Proposed Change:

IS has it's own HP removed

IS has immunity to all status procs/status damage effects removed

IS has immunity to CC effects removed

IS has immunity to various traps removed

 

Is has simple 90% capped DR based on the 75% from this ability(modifiable by power strength.)

 

This is what kind of change you will get if asking for IS to be EQUALLY as powerful as the others.

Pay attention to what you have got instead of what you have not, and realize that what you want is unacceptable as it smacks of god Rhino.

 

What we offered thus far.

Rhino gains DR to EXISTING IS. In addition Rhino gains a VIABLE aggro mechanic that cannot be exploited.>Rhino becomes exactly what you are asking for, just not precisely how you are asking for it because it would be nerfed and we would then all detest your existence in game and avoid you like a plague. Clear enough for you?

[sanj66]

 

 

Ok folks he asked for it.

 

Proposed Change:

IS has it's own HP removed

IS has immunity to all status procs/status damage effects removed

IS has immunity to CC effects removed

IS has immunity to various traps removed

 

Is has simple 90% capped DR based on the 75% from this ability(modifiable by power strength.)

 

This is what kind of change you will get if asking for IS to be EQUALLY as powerful as the others.

Pay attention to what you have got instead of what you have not, and realize that what you want is unacceptable as it smacks of god Rhino.

 

What we offered thus far.

Rhino gains DR to EXISTING IS. In addition Rhino gains a VIABLE aggro mechanic that cannot be exploited.>Rhino becomes exactly what you are asking for, just not precisely how you are asking for it because it would be nerfed and we would then all detest your existence in game and avoid you like a plague. Clear enough for you?

 

not true tbh, almost all the other mitigation skills do have a secondary effect or in mirage's case another conditional effect, so it would still be weaker, just pointing that out.

[SIDESTRE4M]

That's quite funny. This conditional effect certainly has its value... but not for the premise of tanking alone.

 

Other than that, the only effects I can think of are drawbacks?

[sanj66]

That's quite funny. This conditional effect certainly has its value... but not for the premise of tanking alone.

 

Other than that, the only effects I can think of are drawbacks?

Trinity links with nearby enemies over a duration 6 / 8 / 10 / 12 seconds, reducing incoming damage by50% / 60% / 70% / 75% while channeling the damage back to her attackers. Trinity reflects all incoming damage and status effects to a maximum of 1 / 2 / 2 / 3 enemies within 12 / 14 / 17 / 20 meters.

 

added effects, reflected damage and status, no draw back.

 

Overcome with rage, Valkyr unleashes her wrath using a set of energy claws and becomes immune to damage and status effects over a duration of 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 seconds. While Hysteria is active, the claws are the only weapons Valkyr can use. The claws grant Valkyr a unique set of melee combos, and1% / 2% / 4% / 5% of the melee damage she inflicts is regained as health. Valkyr will also radiate energy should there be an enemy within 5 meters of her position. Enemies within this aura are highlighted; should any enemy remain highlighted as Hysteria expires, Valkyr will be dealt 7.5% of the total amount of damage she received while Hysteria was active.

 

added effects,invincibility and hp regen, and 1/2 drawbacks compared to how you see it, melee and damage from non killed mobs(if any).

 

Mesa envelops herself in an energy shield that reduces incoming damage from bullets and projectiles by50% / 60% / 70% / 80% while reflecting the damage back to her attackers. The energy shield lasts 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 seconds.

 

added effects,reflected damage, no drawbacks.

 

Mirage adapts to the lighting conditions of her surroundings, gaining a maximum of 115% / 125% / 150% / 200% weapon damage while bathed in light, or reducing incoming damage by a maximum of 25% / 40% / 60% / 75% and reducing enemy accuracy while in the shadows. The effect lasts for 10 / 13 / 18 / 20seconds.

 

conditional, but no drawbacks.

 

Mirage projects 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 holographic mirror images that follow and mimic her actions for 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 seconds. Each hologram is invulnerable to damage, draws enemy attention, and deals 5% / 10% / 15% / 20% of the current weapon's total damage.

 

added effects,hologram aggro, and no drawback.

 

Limbo phases into the Rift Plane for 10 / 15 / 25 / 30 seconds, allowing him to gain all of the Rift Plane's benefits and drawbacks. Rift Walk will end if the ability duration ends, or if deactivated by pressing the ability key again.

 

added effect, basically out of damage plane, player conditional drawback, depending on play style or mission type.

 

Saryn sheds her skin, removing all existing status effects and leaving behind a decoy that draws enemy fire. With 400 shields and 150 / 300 / 400 / 500 health, the decoy will last for a maximum of 7 / 12 / 16 / 20 seconds. The decoy will explode if it loses all of its hitpoints or it's duration expires, inflicting 120 / 150 / 175 / 200 toxin damage with a 100% status chance to enemies within a radius of 5 / 6 / 7 / 10meters when exploding prematurely.

 

added effects, status removal, decoy aggro, damage on destruction, no drawbacks.

 

also note all of these are duration based except saryn, which means they can scale, and again other than saryn they all give damage mitigation and not flat out strength based value of damage avoided. and none of these frames except saryn is supposedly a tank frame, we have a caster(limbo), a support caster(trinity), a berserker(valkyr) and 2 damage type frames(mesa, mirage), yet they can conditionally or outright out tank the tanks in game with little to no draw backs to them. proposing a mechanic to make iron skin scale but have the draw back of gaining aggro with it is an improvement and a drawback and a usable one at that, you can aggro bombards or gunners away from your team mates who are on less beefy frames that dont have a damage reduction skill like nekros, ember etc, it has value and drawbacks as aggroing too much can land you downed, this can indeed snub rushers, and aggroing properly will benefit the team.

[Ronyn]

Good post but....

 and none of these frames except saryn is supposedly a tank frame,

How do we know that Saryn is supposed to be a tank frame?

I mean, I know she can played pretty tanky due to her stats and abilities.

But is that how she is suuposed to be, or is that another case of a frame behaving somewhat differently than intended?

[geninrising]

Good post but....

How do we know that Saryn is supposed to be a tank frame?

I mean, I know she can played pretty tanky due to her stats and abilities.

But is that how she is suuposed to be, or is that another case of a frame behaving somewhat differently than intended?

People see her armor and make assumptions. And yet her kit is focused on DPS. Literally all her powers provide damage. She is a cannon, not so much of the glass variety but a cannon nonetheless. 

[Ronyn]

-----

 

-----

Guys, looking at what we have been proposing for iron skin so far I had a thought...

What if the damage reduction on Iron Skin increased by X percent per enemy under the temporary aggro'ed effect caused by Iron Skin attacks?

The potential good about it is that it directly reward the player for grabbing more attention while lessening the ability to be super tough just by standing around. Not sure about it though..... Something to kick around.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Trinity links with nearby enemies over a duration 6 / 8 / 10 / 12 seconds, reducing incoming damage by50% / 60% / 70% / 75% while channeling the damage back to her attackers. Trinity reflects all incoming damage and status effects to a maximum of 1 / 2 / 2 / 3 enemies within 12 / 14 / 17 / 20 meters.

 

added effects, reflected damage and status, no draw back.

 

Overcome with rage, Valkyr unleashes her wrath using a set of energy claws and becomes immune to damage and status effects over a duration of 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 seconds. While Hysteria is active, the claws are the only weapons Valkyr can use. The claws grant Valkyr a unique set of melee combos, and1% / 2% / 4% / 5% of the melee damage she inflicts is regained as health. Valkyr will also radiate energy should there be an enemy within 5 meters of her position. Enemies within this aura are highlighted; should any enemy remain highlighted as Hysteria expires, Valkyr will be dealt 7.5% of the total amount of damage she received while Hysteria was active.

 

added effects,invincibility and hp regen, and 1/2 drawbacks compared to how you see it, melee and damage from non killed mobs(if any).

 

Mesa envelops herself in an energy shield that reduces incoming damage from bullets and projectiles by50% / 60% / 70% / 80% while reflecting the damage back to her attackers. The energy shield lasts 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 seconds.

 

added effects,reflected damage, no drawbacks.

 

Mirage adapts to the lighting conditions of her surroundings, gaining a maximum of 115% / 125% / 150% / 200% weapon damage while bathed in light, or reducing incoming damage by a maximum of 25% / 40% / 60% / 75% and reducing enemy accuracy while in the shadows. The effect lasts for 10 / 13 / 18 / 20seconds.

conditional, but no drawbacks.

Mirage projects 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 holographic mirror images that follow and mimic her actions for 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 seconds. Each hologram is invulnerable to damage, draws enemy attention, and deals 5% / 10% / 15% / 20% of the current weapon's total damage.

 

added effects,hologram aggro, and no drawback.

 

Limbo phases into the Rift Plane for 10 / 15 / 25 / 30 seconds, allowing him to gain all of the Rift Plane's benefits and drawbacks. Rift Walk will end if the ability duration ends, or if deactivated by pressing the ability key again.

 

added effect, basically out of damage plane, player conditional drawback, depending on play style or mission type.

 

Saryn sheds her skin, removing all existing status effects and leaving behind a decoy that draws enemy fire. With 400 shields and 150 / 300 / 400 / 500 health, the decoy will last for a maximum of 7 / 12 / 16 / 20 seconds. The decoy will explode if it loses all of its hitpoints or it's duration expires, inflicting 120 / 150 / 175 / 200 toxin damage with a 100% status chance to enemies within a radius of 5 / 6 / 7 / 10meters when exploding prematurely.

 

added effects, status removal, decoy aggro, damage on destruction, no drawbacks.

 

also note all of these are duration based except saryn, which means they can scale, and again other than saryn they all give damage mitigation and not flat out strength based value of damage avoided. and none of these frames except saryn is supposedly a tank frame, we have a caster(limbo), a support caster(trinity), a berserker(valkyr) and 2 damage type frames(mesa, mirage), yet they can conditionally or outright out tank the tanks in game with little to no draw backs to them. proposing a mechanic to make iron skin scale but have the draw back of gaining aggro with it is an improvement and a drawback and a usable one at that, you can aggro bombards or gunners away from your team mates who are on less beefy frames that dont have a damage reduction skill like nekros, ember etc, it has value and drawbacks as aggroing too much can land you downed, this can indeed snub rushers, and aggroing properly will benefit the team.

 

Haha, and beeing conditional is no drawback? What?

 

The other stuff...

 

Trinity is support, doesn't have CC, has an entirely other toolkit...

Valkyr is limited to melee...

Mirage is conditional. Her mirror clones however are valid, but what does it prove? That Rhino can't tank as well as a clone? Oh come on...

Limbo does indeed facetank quite well... but he can't do anything while doing it???

Saryn deploys a decoy... and? Facetank Rhino? What?

 

What the hell are you even talking about?

 

Volt can deploy an indestructible shield, lol imb4, buff Rhino plox.

 

Seriously...

[Holeypaladin]

Anyone who says Rhino is not intended to be a tank is lying to themselves.

 

The evidence is clear, DE outright states it.  It's the intended role.  Meaning that's what he's supposed to be best at.  And what he's supposed to be better at than everyone else.

 

It's pointless to hate on Rhino and lie about that not being his intended role... because it's outright stated in his official video.  Crying out for him to be nerfed into something he's not supposed to be is just pointless.

 

Let people tank as Rhino if they want to... it has nothing to do with the way you play your own preferred frames.

[sanj66]

Haha, and beeing conditional is no drawback? What?

 

The other stuff...

 

Trinity is support, doesn't have CC, has an entirely other toolkit...

Valkyr is limited to melee...

Mirage is conditional. Her mirror clones however are valid, but what does it prove? That Rhino can't tank as well as a clone? Oh come on...

Limbo does indeed facetank quite well... but he can't do anything while doing it???

Saryn deploys a decoy... and? Facetank Rhino? What?

 

What the hell are you even talking about?

 

Volt can deploy an indestructible shield, lol imb4, buff Rhino plox.

 

Seriously...

the post was about the damage mitigation/tanking skills of other frames that are not tanks, something you fail to grasp by saying trinity has no cc ability, she has damage mitigation on 2 skills both with no drawbacks but added effects, valkyr being stuck in melee may not be a bad thing to people who love melee, i mainly run melee and i have seen others that actually like valkyr due to liking melee, thats why i stated its based on playstyle also having 100% invincibility and hp regen on top of that to counter her drawbacks. mirage like i said its conditional, but why is a damage type frame having a mitigation skill thats better or better scaling than a tank? mirages clones are invincible, is rhino invincible? if you cant use your limbo to negate damage while using the kd from banish to knock off a target or even to slip in and out of the rift while killing then you arent utilizing your limbo properly. mesa has no draw backs on hers either. the point is why are all these frames old and new getting damage mitigation skills that can possibly or just outright make the tank skills of the listed tank seem trivial and poor in comparison, while either having no drawbacks or minimal, valkyr is the only one that has atleast 1 clear drawback being the damage on end of hysteria.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Point is: Rhino's "damage mitigation" is unconditional flexible, riskless and fits into his solid set of skills otherwise.

 

Saryn can't facetank alone with her shed skin. It diverts the enemy. That's hardly, what facetanking is.

 

Valkyr has no drawback if you love melee. Yeah right.

 

Limbo can only get people into his little universe to do something and then facetanking is over.

 

What exactly do you want to prove? Do you want to weight every single frames entire survival strategy against Rhino's single skill?

Edited January 21, 2015 by SIDESTRE4M

[Holeypaladin]

I notice you left out Link.

 

Link makes Trinity, a support healer, unconditionally more durable at all times than Rhino.

 

And that's without even using Blessing, which is stackable with Link.

 

There's a problem when a healer is more durable than the tank.

[Ronyn]

Sidestre4m....

The fndemental issue here is role fullfillment.

Rhino, according to his lore and general design, is meant to be tank.

Currently some of the values on certain aspects of his skill set are off.

For example: patch history shows that iron skin was given an aggro generation aspect around patch 8. Since then severl patches reference fixes and tweaks to it. And yet....at this time it has almost no actual effect on enemy aggro.

Funny enough, if it did grab large amounts of enemy attention, iron skin would be broken apart rather quickly.

Things are obviously not working according to plan.

Using iron skin as a purely selfish survival tool makes it seem strong.

But that's not its job. Its about protecting everyone. Drawing fire is drawback btw.

Realisticly rhino should be under more fire than everyone else in the encounter.

That's what tanks do. And that's why his resiliance should be above the others.

Pointing out that a bunch of frames DE never called tanks have some drawback on their defense skill is immaterial.

They aren't the standard by which a tank is to be measured by.

I know that since press 4 to win became a thing a lot of folks define rhino by his ability to spam stomp.

But we know from de that is not the intended design of the ults.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Ok. You know that a traditional tank can tank, but not without support, right?

So you either want him to be a traditional tank with aggro mechanics or he is just a one-man army.

 

I just did some testing on Ceres and played with my Rhino Prime, Mesa, Mirage and Limbo. I didn't use Trinity. I know the result.

Every frame allowed me to slack of quite easily. I mean, I normally play Volt and taking hits means death quite easily.

 

And to be fair here, I found it hardest with Rhino at first. Ok he doesn't have any forma like the others though. I just used Intensify. Melee Aura.

 

Mesa was ridiculous for level 35+. However never dare to have shattershield run out or rely to much on it. But as I mentioned earlier, shattershield is the only thing she can do. No panic button.

With Mirage, I had some luck and some bad luck. What I expected. However a cautious player can really be lazy.

Limbo was... I don't know. Running arround in his dimension and picking enemies who get instant snared... I aborted the mission. It was just lame and boring for me and I didn't see any valuable team benefits or I just suck at playing Limbo.

 

The second run I got a bit the hang out of Rhino and then I noticed I never had to use Life Strike, because I never got a proc or real damage to my life points. Even my half-build allowed me to take enough hits to take it easy. I didn't even dodge the Scorpions hook.

 

I played solo. Because that would be the same as drawing aggro.

 

Then I threw in a transient fortitude and Ludi felt like Terminus.

So to what conclusion did I come? I don't know. I think OP should grow a beard.

 

If you guys really want him to be THE tank, then he needs a rework, not just Iron Skin. I never played him as tank during my test runs. Just run and gun. And I just used Lex Prime the whole time. A bit melee here and there. No fancy automatics. If Rhino where my main with a few forma it would be like a walk in the park.

Edited January 21, 2015 by SIDESTRE4M

[Mak_Gohae]

Sidestre4m....

The fndemental issue here is role fullfillment.

Rhino, according to his lore and general design, is meant to be tank.

 

 

No, he originally was a CCer but people used a fault with the game's system to build around 1 power.

When DE saw that they decided to tone it down and made him more of a generalist to appease the people that were going to complain about the change. 

 

Currently some of the values on certain aspects of his skill set are off.

For example: patch history shows that iron skin was given an aggro generation aspect around patch 8. Since then severl patches reference fixes and tweaks to it. And yet....at this time it has almost no actual effect on enemy aggro.

Funny enough, if it did grab large amounts of enemy attention, iron skin would be broken apart rather quickly.

Things are obviously not working according to plan.

 

Because he was never meant to be a tank. You are supposed to be using your other powers and weapons on top of IS.

Using iron skin as a purely selfish survival tool makes it seem strong.

But that's not its job. Its about protecting everyone. Drawing fire is drawback btw.

Realisticly rhino should be under more fire than everyone else in the encounter.

That's what tanks do. And that's why his resiliance should be above the others.

Pointing out that a bunch of frames DE never called tanks have some drawback on their defense skill is immaterial.

They aren't the standard by which a tank is to be measured by.

 

Rhino isnt either.

He was a CC and now he is some generalist. He is Bandshee2.0

I know that since press 4 to win became a thing a lot of folks define rhino by his ability to spam stomp.

But we know from de that is not the intended design of the ults.

 

They actually said that? When? The whole game revolves around 4.

[geninrising]

Guys, looking at what we have been proposing for iron skin so far I had a thought...

What if the damage reduction on Iron Skin increased by X percent per enemy under the temporary aggro'ed effect caused by Iron Skin attacks?

The potential good about it is that it directly reward the player for grabbing more attention while lessening the ability to be super tough just by standing around. Not sure about it though..... Something to kick around.

This could potentially be fantastic as long as it scaled solely on the number of targets so that he would not end up with 100% DR or something ridiculous like that. However, I had contemplated that before.  The reason I mentioned a set DR+pwr str is for situations where Rhino encounters a Bombard with nothing else around. That would equate to virtually no IS at all it would seem to me if he used %per aggro'd target.

 

As an aside I am lmfao how you excluded HoleyPaladin from a question on what we could actually do ^^

 

Additionally Bobtm I apologize for my oversight in an earlier comment excluding you from mention on the active discussion of a PROPER balanced IS iteration, it was not intended but I have had more direct interactions with Ronyn on the matter.

Edited January 21, 2015 by geninrising

[Ronyn]

No, he originally was a CCer but people used a fault with the game's system to build around 1 power.

When DE saw that they decided to tone it down and made him more of a generalist to appease the people that were going to complain about the change. 

Because he was never meant to be a tank. You are supposed to be using your other powers and weapons on top of IS.

Rhino isnt either.

He was a CC and now he is some generalist. He is Bandshee2.0

Yes, all powers combined to perform his role which is frst and foremost a tank. We already did this dance.

 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/382685-bring-back-iron-skin-face-tanking/page-27#entry4266789

You're definition  of "tank" abilities is limited and your insisting on ignoring both DE's description and the way he was commonly played.

 

Question: Why did they put a taunt mechanic, the most blatant tank mechanic, on iron skin in patch 8 if he was not meant to be a tank?

 

They actually said that? When? The whole game revolves around 4.

Well one reference to them feeling that press 4 to win had gotten out of hand.

"Our ‘press 4 to win’ ultimates are metered primarily by the supply of energy. Finding an energy loophole means that Homer’s drinking bird can play the game for you. That is not team synergy. That is just broken." -DEsteve.

There a few more references that are out there but I'm not going to dig for them.

If you can say that DE calling rhino a tank, doesn't mean he was supposed to be a tank, then I don't imagine any reference I find will mean anything to you.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Ronyn

[Ronyn]

Ok. You know that a traditional tank can tank, but not without support, right?

So you either want him to be a traditional tank with aggro mechanics or he is just a one-man army.

---

If you guys really want him to be THE tank, then he needs a rework, not just Iron Skin.

Have you not been reading the conversation between geninrising, Bobtm and myself the last few pages?

We have been discussing a way to bring across rhino's aggro mechanics and resilience in a balanced yet effective way.

[Holeypaladin]

Because he was never meant to be a tank. You are supposed to be using your other powers and weapons on top of IS.

Watch the official video here: https://warframe.com/game/warframes?id=Rhino

 

Because you're saying things that make you sound like a complete idiot.  His tank role is really well stated, several times, right there.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Holeypaladin

[Ronyn]

This could potentially be fantastic as long as it scaled solely on the number of targets so that he would not end up with 100% DR or something ridiculous like that. However, I had contemplated that before.  The reason I mentioned a set DR+pwr str is for situations where Rhino encounters a Bombard with nothing else around. That would equate to virtually no IS at all it would seem to me if he used %per aggro'd target.

Indeed, all things with a reasonable cap of some kind.

You bring up an important concern. The idea that in the situations where there is only one very powerful target in play..

where rhino might need the DR the most would be where he would lack it. Like in a boss fight with little to know adds around.

 

I have this idea that the higher an enemy is on the hierarchy the more DR they would grant.....

something along those lines.

[Mak_Gohae]

Yes, all powers combined to perform his role which is frst and foremost a tank. We already did this dance.

 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/382685-bring-back-iron-skin-face-tanking/page-27#entry4266789

You're definition  of "tank" abilities is limited and your insisting on ignoring both DE's description and the way he was commonly played.

 

 

"My definition" of tank if the RPG definition that has existed for decades. You are using some apparent new thing created for MOBA games which i cant speak to because i dont play.

 

And i am not ignoring anything from DE you are the one taking one bit of info at the back end of his description and blowing it up as his main role.

Doing the same exact thing players do when playing focusing on one ability. Dude had one of the largest energy pools in the game and 3 CC powers... that means he is tank cause of 1 power and his high survivability. Dude has high survivability cause he didnt do heavy damage and he was slow.

 

Question: Why did they put a taunt mechanic, the most blatant tank mechanic, on iron skin in patch 8 if he was not meant to be a tank?

 

Cause DE decided to follow certain players idea of what he was and build him that way.

Which, like you stated, they didnt even properly do it. It's lip service so the tank crowd would stop. And they did... until now.

 

Well one reference to them feeling that press 4 to win had gotten out of hand.

"Our ‘press 4 to win’ ultimates are metered primarily by the supply of energy. Finding an energy loophole means that Homer’s drinking bird can play the game for you. That is not team synergy. That is just broken." -DEsteve.

There a few more references that are out there but I'm not going to dig for them.

 

I think that was dealing with certain combinations of powers that made it so people could go nuts. I think that was about Trinity.

 

If you can say that DE calling rhino a tank, doesn't mean he was supposed to be a tank, then I don't imagine any reference I find will mean anything to you.

 

DE didnt say Rhino was a tank, DE said that you can build him to be something like that with a combination of mods.

 

There's a different between IS and CAN BE.

You can make all frame resemble certain things if you put on the right mods.

Hek, how many of you actually put on the armor mod? Pretty sure many of you arent even following the suggestions made on that video while at the same time complaining about how he isnt doing this or that properly. .

[Holeypaladin]

If the suggestions actually WORKED, more people would follow them.

 

If Rhino had a base armor of 300, and iron skin benefited from health and armor DR, then I guarantee you that people will be putting armor mods and health mods on him.  Exactly the way the video suggests.

 

Or even do a better job and make base iron skin health equal to health+shield with armor DR applied to it.

 

When they post a video and describe a warframe, it's describing the way they intend for the warframe to be played.  When it's no longer viable to play him that way, then it's a shortcoming that needs to be corrected.  Repurposing Rhino into a roarbot is definitely not his intended role, and NO warframe is intended as a "jack of all trades but master of none."  They're all intended for a rather unique purpose, be it stationary tank, mobile tank, damage dealer, stealthy ninja, crowd control, or whatever.  If a warframe is reduced to a "jack of all trades" position it means he has failed at his specified role.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

I don't get how people are saying Rhino isn't meant to tank. It's right in the name FFS, and having the (tied) highest base armor before Valkyr came out (who only got more armor because DE apparently can't design a berserkerframe to save their butts).