The Void Trader And The Unsustainable Biweekly Grind

[zacoda4]

I have to offer this criticism of the Void Trader;

 

His current model of business essentially pressures players into grinding out 700-900 ducats every two weeks before he returns. This is simply unsustainable for players who don't play/farm void often enough, and honestly I think that this results in players feeling that they have to meet a certain 'farming quota' every two weeks, as to not miss any items. This would be a little easier to swallow if we knew when some of these items will eventually be restocked/return, but currently that's entirely unclear, so grinding to get them as they are released almost feels like a neccessity.

 

One potentially definitive solution to this and some of the other various criticisms people have voiced about the Void Trader on the forums, is to simply change it so that he stays permanently, and all items are available constantly (perhaps cosmetics could be excluded if that's an issue for some reason?). I don't know how DE would feel about such a proposal though, after they built the Void Trader from the ground up to sell limited-time rarities.

 

Less drastic things that could be done to help are to simply reduce the ducat prices of the things he sells. Or, perhaps some adjustments could be made to his schedule? Either lengthening the times between visits, or lenghtening the visits themselves, as to provide more time for the average player to farm up enough ducats. I don't know if these two simpler fixes would address every issue, but they'd at least be a significant help.

 

What do you guys think of the Void Trader in his current state?

Edited January 11, 2015 by zacoda4

[Vadrigos]

I don't like him. I say that with a visceral fury that know no bounds. :)

[Cryhunter059]

I tend not to buy his whole stock anywas, so I usually don't need that many ducats to get what I want. Mainly, I wish he had a bigger selection so it would be more likely he was carrying something I actually wanted

[Rakosta_Kai]

The Void trader gets people to trade back items they spent an average of 30 minutes acquiring for ducats. That format gets sell-able goods out of circulation.

 

Having the trader only show once every two weeks heightens the level of expectation. The simple fact of the matter is that the trade value of platinum is dropping due to the trade market being flooded with sellable goods. When those prices drop, less platinum gets purchased from the market. That's bad for DE.

 

I doubt that they'll make the trader a permanent fixture, and would question whether they even should... The trader serves as a valuable equalizer to the way the trade market has been flooded with goods. Having him appear more won't get more items traded to him.

 

For my part, I limit myself to the cosmetic items.

 

My best advice to you is not to grind just for the sake of the Trader's goodies... You'd be chasing your tail to no end.

Moreover, not one thing sold by the trader, that isn't a cosmetic, has a value commensurate to the items that had to be sold to purchase it.

 

Work to accomplish what you had planned to accomplish in the Void and exchange what you can't sell on the trade channel for Ducats.

 

The rest will work itself out.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

Haven't got the void guy on ps4 yet but wasn't he a response to the whine if "we have too much cr@p from the void, give us something to do with it"?

Now in the space of a couple of weeks people are whining "we don't have enough void cr@p"?

:)

I think DE just need to confirm the wares are on rotation and people who are short of ducats one week will get another chance.

[HibikiGanaha]

The Void trader gets people to trade back items they spent an average of 30 minutes acquiring for ducats. That format gets sell-able goods out of circulation.

 

Having the trader only show once every two weeks heightens the level of expectation. The simple fact of the matter is that the trade value of platinum is dropping due to the trade market being flooded with sellable goods. When those prices drop, less platinum gets purchased from the market. That's bad for DE.

 

I doubt that they'll make the trader a permanent fixture, and would question whether they even should... The trader serves as a valuable equalizer to the way the trade market has been flooded with goods. Having him appear more won't get more items traded to him.

 

For my part, I limit myself to the cosmetic items.

 

My best advice to you is not to grind just for the sake of the Trader's goodies... You'd be chasing your tail to no end.

Moreover, not one thing sold by the trader, that isn't a cosmetic, has a value commensurate to the items that had to be sold to purchase it.

 

Work to accomplish what you had planned to accomplish in the Void and exchange what you can't sell on the trade channel for Ducats.

 

The rest will work itself out.

I'm willing to bet that the void trader doesn't affect prices in trade chat at all.

 

I usually just trade him all the garbage that is unsellable in trade chat.

[UltimateSpinDash]

Haven't got the void guy on ps4 yet but wasn't he a response to the whine if "we have too much cr@p from the void, give us something to do with it"?

Now in the space of a couple of weeks people are whining "we don't have enough void cr@p"?

:)

I think DE just need to confirm the wares are on rotation and people who are short of ducats one week will get another chance.

This is among the best things I ever read on this forum.

[Rakosta_Kai]

I'm willing to bet that the void trader doesn't affect prices in trade chat at all.

 

I usually just trade him all the garbage that is unsellable in trade chat.

The garbage that is unsellable in trade chat is unsellable because everyone and their mother has it... It

has no rarity.

 

When you say you can't sell it in trade chat, you mean you can't sell it for the amount you want it for.

I guarantee you could have sold it for 1p...

 

So your logic dictates that the number of sellable items flooding the market in the last year hasn't driven the cost to purchase those items down?

 

A Rhino prime set sold a month after his prime access was going for about 500p... You can buy the same set for 45p right now.

 

Scarcity affects price if the item is relevant or has value.

 

That's basic economics...

 

Give it 6-8 months and see if your logic holds up.

[UltimateSpinDash]

The garbage that is unsellable in trade chat is unsellable because everyone and their mother has it... It

has no rarity.

 

When you say you can't sell it in trade chat, you mean you can't sell it for the amount you want it for.

I guarantee you could have sold it for 1p...

Wait, if I can't sell something on trade chat because everyone has it (Bo Prime Ornaments anyone?) it's my fault because I set my price to high?

[Otaiken]

I wanted a token system. I got a glorified credit/void part sink.

 

So yeah... I hate the trader in its current form.

[Otaiken]

The garbage that is unsellable in trade chat is unsellable because everyone and their mother has it... It

has no rarity.

 

When you say you can't sell it in trade chat, you mean you can't sell it for the amount you want it for.

I guarantee you could have sold it for 1p...

 

So your logic dictates that the number of sellable items flooding the market in the last year hasn't driven the cost to purchase those items down?

 

A Rhino prime set sold a month after his prime access was going for about 500p... You can buy the same set for 45p right now.

 

Scarcity affects price if the item is relevant or has value.

 

That's basic economics...

 

Give it 6-8 months and see if your logic holds up.

 

That's a very simplistic view you have there.

 

The aquisition difficulty plays a big role here. If you can get an item in two runs noone will pay for it. They will simply get it themselves. Also, 1p is not worth the time it takes to advertise, find a buyer and sell that part. These things are often simply given away in clans also.

 

I tems that are very hard to get are pricier. People tend to prefer to sell whole sets cause that way they can mark up the less valuable items by selling them with the desirable items. Getting just the part you want is difficult with some sets.

 

As the time goes on, even though the items is harder to find its amount on the market increases so the prices go down. Those items also get removed from the market however cause people actually build them. Not everyone is a reseller mind you. So the amount shrinks some. Also, the demand decreases substantially with time... it's not just about the supply. The supply increases but the demand goes down a lot os well.

 

So yeah... not so clear cut as you present it. I doubt Void Trader will shake it up too much. Selling his limited time mods is gonna have a bigger impact on plat sales than the void part sink.

 

 

Also, how good of a business decision this is is pretty irrelevant here. This is about how this helps players, not DE. Void trader is good cause DE makes MONEY! <- not a position that many players will appreaciate.

Edited January 11, 2015 by LocoWithGun

[Yazeth]

When you say you can't sell it in trade chat, you mean you can't sell it for the amount you want it for.

I guarantee you could have sold it for 1p...

You do know that there are some stuff that aren't even worth buying for 1p right?

[Kaisty]

They could have the Void trader do what he does for the time being, but then have that other trader (Darvo, I think?) buy his leftover stock of goods and hold onto them along with any goods he sells. But the only way to access buying these goods would be to increase your Rep with Darvo by "doing errands" for him. These errands range from:

 

giving him some materials he needs (a way to get rid of all those excess resources folks have) and you can either answer "I can do that" to "How about a different resource?";

 

Running missions for him. (I.E.  rescue (save a supplier that is caught on a node you have unlocked), exterminate (a band of pirates that destroyed his stock of merchandise), sabatoge (wreck an opposing ship so the deal goes south), etc.);

 

Or updating his codex about units, their drops, and other good information. It would only count new additions from the last time you showed him your codex.

 

Now the best choice would be that you can choose from each of theses choices freely and not have to worry about grinding certain things in order to reach the next tier. Probably would only have a few tiers to start, but in the end Darvo would give players (who put in enough rep) access to all the old void trader stuff and the ability to trade for parts that we need for Primes. Instead of the excess vanishing from the game for good, they would stock up and certain excess would be converted into other parts so that folks could buy them and finally we would have a trader for Prime parts without feeling the pain of gambling for a gamble in the void!

 

As for the currency that Darvo would use, it would depend on what inventory you are looking at. His basic stuff (things he offers without rep) would obviously be credit based. Advanced things with a bit of rep would cost credits and some resources. The prime stuff would cost ducats but depending on how old the items, the ducats would drop in price till it reaches a minimum number set by DE.

 

Oh and before anyone would think this could be straight P2W (I see you!), you need to be at least a minimum Mastery Rank (8, 9, or possibly 10?) to access the advance and higher tier things.

[Vadrigos]

They could have the Void trader do what he does for the time being, but then have that other trader (Darvo, I think?) buy his leftover stock of goods and hold onto them along with any goods he sells. But the only way to access buying these goods would be to increase your Rep with Darvo by "doing errands" for him. These errands range from:

 

giving him some materials he needs (a way to get rid of all those excess resources folks have) and you can either answer "I can do that" to "How about a different resource?";

 

Running missions for him. (I.E.  rescue (save a supplier that is caught on a node you have unlocked), exterminate (a band of pirates that destroyed his stock of merchandise), sabatoge (wreck an opposing ship so the deal goes south), etc.);

 

Or updating his codex about units, their drops, and other good information. It would only count new additions from the last time you showed him your codex.

 

Now the best choice would be that you can choose from each of theses choices freely and not have to worry about grinding certain things in order to reach the next tier. Probably would only have a few tiers to start, but in the end Darvo would give players (who put in enough rep) access to all the old void trader stuff and the ability to trade for parts that we need for Primes. Instead of the excess vanishing from the game for good, they would stock up and certain excess would be converted into other parts so that folks could buy them and finally we would have a trader for Prime parts without feeling the pain of gambling for a gamble in the void!

 

As for the currency that Darvo would use, it would depend on what inventory you are looking at. His basic stuff (things he offers without rep) would obviously be credit based. Advanced things with a bit of rep would cost credits and some resources. The prime stuff would cost ducats but depending on how old the items, the ducats would drop in price till it reaches a minimum number set by DE.

 

Oh and before anyone would think this could be straight P2W (I see you!), you need to be at least a minimum Mastery Rank (8, 9, or possibly 10?) to access the advance and higher tier things.

 

This is the first constructive thing I have seen on this thread.

[Pizzarugi]

Haven't got the void guy on ps4 yet but wasn't he a response to the whine if "we have too much cr@p from the void, give us something to do with it"?

Now in the space of a couple of weeks people are whining "we don't have enough void cr@p"?

:)

I think DE just need to confirm the wares are on rotation and people who are short of ducats one week will get another chance.

I think its more that people felt DE lied to them. All the time grinding haplessly getting certain items that are extremely hard to obtain (ex. Loki Prime chassis) usually results in the player stockpiling on a bunch of common prime items. Players wanted a token system instead of RNG dictating how they obtain items.

They got a token system alright, but it wasn't what they wanted, so they're upset.

[_FrostPrime_]

They got a token system alright, but it wasn't what they wanted, so they're upset.

 

This. It's not likely to change a great deal from how it is now despite the seeming majority disdain for it. Why? Because DE gave us exactly what we cried about. And yet we STILL don't appreciate it because "reasons." I don't care what Baro sells us. Loot is loot. And I like loot. You can't debate about getting shiny things not being what you wanted when odds are someone else can tell you the shiny things you would have liked are garbage.

[Rakosta_Kai]

That's a very simplistic view you have there.

 

The aquisition difficulty plays a big role here. If you can get an item in two runs noone will pay for it. They will simply get it themselves. Also, 1p is not worth the time it takes to advertise, find a buyer and sell that part. These things are often simply given away in clans also.

 

I tems that are very hard to get are pricier. People tend to prefer to sell whole sets cause that way they can mark up the less valuable items by selling them with the desirable items. Getting just the part you want is difficult with some sets.

 

As the time goes on, even though the items is harder to find its amount on the market increases so the prices go down. Those items also get removed from the market however cause people actually build them. Not everyone is a reseller mind you. So the amount shrinks some. Also, the demand decreases substantially with time... it's not just about the supply. The supply increases but the demand goes down a lot os well.

 

So yeah... not so clear cut as you present it. I doubt Void Trader will shake it up too much. Selling his limited time mods is gonna have a bigger impact on plat sales than the void part sink.

 

 

Also, how good of a business decision this is is pretty irrelevant here. This is about how this helps players, not DE. Void trader is good cause DE makes MONEY! <- not a position that many players will appreaciate.

You might term it is as simplistic but you just said the exact same thing... It just took you longer.

The fact that I posed a basic economic principal is simple terms doesn't suggest I have less of an understanding.

 

Whether players get annoyed at the notion that the Void Trader helps remove items from the market which will, in time, normalize trade prices is irrelevant to me.

 

Players not appreciating the fact that the normalized pricing will encourage players to have to buy platinum, thus making this also be positive for DE, is also irrelevant to me.

 

DE is in the business to make money; Warframe is not a philanthropic endeavor.

 

As such, It is what it is...

 

Before anyone decides to hop in and scream "Conspiracy".....

 

Who controls the reward loot tables in the Void and Derelicts?

 

Who instituted and monitors trade?

 

Who manages the market?

 

The exact same person.

 

While It's nothing insidious, it is important to see things for what they are as opposed to pretending they are something they actually aren't.

 

If this process was truly designed as you folks want to see it as being, then you could just as easily use those ducats to get that elusive part/BP you can't seem to find.

 

But you can't...

 

Even the items you get from him are designed to discourage re-selling them.

 

The Void Trader's function is to remove items from circulation... This is no different from the Craft system removing components from circulation.

 

When the items are brought back down to reasonable levels, prices for things you haven't been able to sell in recent will go back up.

 

The fact that many fail to grasp this concept baffles me as it's just so basic.

 

Economics is a balancing act and the Trader's real function is as a check to something that was becoming unbalanced.

[Rakosta_Kai]

You do know that there are some stuff that aren't even worth buying for 1p right?

I sincerely hope you don't actually believe that...

[_FrostPrime_]

You do know that there are some stuff that aren't even worth buying for 1p right?

 

I sincerely hope you don't actually believe that...

 

*looking at Rare 5 Fusion Cores  and Void keys*

Edited January 12, 2015 by littlewomba

[Spartan0804]

You might term it is as simplistic but you just said the exact same thing... It just took you longer.

The fact that I posed a basic economic principal is simple terms doesn't suggest I have less of an understanding.

 

Whether players get annoyed at the notion that the Void Trader helps remove items from the market which will, in time, normalize trade prices is irrelevant to me.

 

Players not appreciating the fact that the normalized pricing will encourage players to have to buy platinum, thus making this also be positive for DE, is also irrelevant to me.

 

DE is in the business to make money; Warframe is not a philanthropic endeavor.

 

As such, It is what it is...

 

Before anyone decides to hop in and scream "Conspiracy".....

 

Who controls the reward loot tables in the Void and Derelicts?

 

Who instituted and monitors trade?

 

Who manages the market?

 

The exact same person.

 

While It's nothing insidious, it is important to see things for what they are as opposed to pretending they are something they actually aren't.

 

If this process was truly designed as you folks want to see it as being, then you could just as easily use those ducats to get that elusive part/BP you can't seem to find.

 

But you can't...

 

Even the items you get from him are designed to discourage re-selling them.

 

The Void Trader's function is to remove items from circulation... This is no different from the Craft system removing components from circulation.

 

When the items are brought back down to reasonable levels, prices for things you haven't been able to sell in recent will go back up.

 

The fact that many fail to grasp this concept baffles me as it's just so basic.

 

Economics is a balancing act and the Trader's real function is as a check to something that was becoming unbalanced.

 

^ this makes complete sense. +1 Should be the main explanation for anyone that doesn't like Baro.

[Krak_Nihilus]

They could have the Void trader do what he does for the time being, but then have that other trader (Darvo, I think?) buy his leftover stock of goods and hold onto them along with any goods he sells. But the only way to access buying these goods would be to increase your Rep with Darvo by "doing errands" for him. These errands range from:

 

giving him some materials he needs (a way to get rid of all those excess resources folks have) and you can either answer "I can do that" to "How about a different resource?";

 

Running missions for him. (I.E.  rescue (save a supplier that is caught on a node you have unlocked), exterminate (a band of pirates that destroyed his stock of merchandise), sabatoge (wreck an opposing ship so the deal goes south), etc.);

 

Or updating his codex about units, their drops, and other good information. It would only count new additions from the last time you showed him your codex.

 

Now the best choice would be that you can choose from each of theses choices freely and not have to worry about grinding certain things in order to reach the next tier. Probably would only have a few tiers to start, but in the end Darvo would give players (who put in enough rep) access to all the old void trader stuff and the ability to trade for parts that we need for Primes. Instead of the excess vanishing from the game for good, they would stock up and certain excess would be converted into other parts so that folks could buy them and finally we would have a trader for Prime parts without feeling the pain of gambling for a gamble in the void!

 

As for the currency that Darvo would use, it would depend on what inventory you are looking at. His basic stuff (things he offers without rep) would obviously be credit based. Advanced things with a bit of rep would cost credits and some resources. The prime stuff would cost ducats but depending on how old the items, the ducats would drop in price till it reaches a minimum number set by DE.

 

Oh and before anyone would think this could be straight P2W (I see you!), you need to be at least a minimum Mastery Rank (8, 9, or possibly 10?) to access the advance and higher tier things.

You should make a seperate thread for this, it's an awesome idea.

[Krak_Nihilus]

You might term it is as simplistic but you just said the exact same thing... It just took you longer.

The fact that I posed a basic economic principal is simple terms doesn't suggest I have less of an understanding.

 

Whether players get annoyed at the notion that the Void Trader helps remove items from the market which will, in time, normalize trade prices is irrelevant to me.

 

Players not appreciating the fact that the normalized pricing will encourage players to have to buy platinum, thus making this also be positive for DE, is also irrelevant to me.

 

DE is in the business to make money; Warframe is not a philanthropic endeavor.

 

As such, It is what it is...

 

Before anyone decides to hop in and scream "Conspiracy".....

 

Who controls the reward loot tables in the Void and Derelicts?

 

Who instituted and monitors trade?

 

Who manages the market?

 

The exact same person.

 

While It's nothing insidious, it is important to see things for what they are as opposed to pretending they are something they actually aren't.

 

If this process was truly designed as you folks want to see it as being, then you could just as easily use those ducats to get that elusive part/BP you can't seem to find.

 

But you can't...

 

Even the items you get from him are designed to discourage re-selling them.

 

The Void Trader's function is to remove items from circulation... This is no different from the Craft system removing components from circulation.

 

When the items are brought back down to reasonable levels, prices for things you haven't been able to sell in recent will go back up.

 

The fact that many fail to grasp this concept baffles me as it's just so basic.

 

Economics is a balancing act and the Trader's real function is as a check to something that was becoming unbalanced.

Trader won't impact plat prices just simply because no one sells him stuff like loki prime helmet and such, which are the easiest to sell. And as for other things that are not as easy to sell, those are easy to get. So there will always be quite a few of those on market thus the price won't move a lot as well.

[Schorsi]

I'm not a huge fan of how the void trader currently works, mostly because there are mods that I imagine will be primed and I dearly desire, but dislike the wait for. The current 2 week schedule I don't mind its the lack of options. I would love it if the void trader brought a larger stock in his normal visits or if they just made everything available during his visits. having a wait on the cosmetics and weapons doesn't bother me, but that is because I'm not too concerned with mastery currently and all my frames look exactly how I want them to.

 

Heck I would be stupid happy if they just had the void trader's entire stock availible during each visit but only had his current four at the normal rate with everything else at 10 times the cost. I would be able to know exactly what is worth farming for and be able to purchase what I want in a reasonable time frame instead of waiting for the right mod to show up in his bi monthly visit.

 

But alot of this just comes from me becoming increasing sick of the event 2 win attitude this game has been getting, I took a 6 month break from the game and missed out on 2 event weapons and 3 mod sets. I would really hate to miss one of the void trader's visits only to find out i have to wait another few months for a chance at the primed pressure point, or primed quick draw, or primed gentleman's mustache, or something else.

[Rakosta_Kai]

*looking at Rare 5 Fusion Cores  and Void keys*

Someone trots out a Straw Man argument and someone else falls for it.

 

Good going!

[Yazeth]

I sincerely hope you don't actually believe that...