Nerfing Nova For The Sake Of Challenging Missions.

[Prany]

 

If you want a good argument you have to show how and why nova isnt overpowered

 

Nullifiers are poor argument. Yeah, they can ruin Nova's day. But they can ruin every other frames day just as much if not more.

[Nomicakes]

Nullifiers are poor argument. Yeah, they can ruin Nova's day. But they can ruin every other frames day just as much if not more.

Nullifiers basically reduce a 'frame's options to its survivability.

 

Novas survivability is junk without her powers. Nullifiers are a fine counter (even though I still hate them).

[Halser]

You can tell nova isn't OP simply because she isn't in every single squad online. Before her nerf, she used to be.

 

I fail to see exactly what is OP about her, it certainly isn't Wormhole. It isn't null star.

 

AMD is slow and short ranged enough that even with its insane damage, it's still not that useful.

 

MPrime is now much slower to act, and the explosion damage is laughable in any later content. You use it due to the damage multiplier and slow/speedup, neither of which make her OP, just useful. And if you think MPrime is what makes those later T4D waves as easy as the first one, you're being dismissive of the work the other frames are putting in, aand that's just ignorant.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Halser

[Azawarau]

As a casual player who values group dynamics, I admit that I've had those "whoa" moments, while progressing towards end-game, when a Nova already comes in and creates a "paradigm shift" in gameplay.

On one hand, I'm ok with it. Every game needs a "power MVP" type. However, I don't know where the line is. If she acts like a quarterback in football, and everyone else feels that gameplay is enhanced within the confines of their role in the 4-man team, that's great. If she does the QB's job, the receiver's job, and doesn't need an offensive line to protect her, then that is a different story.

Which is it?

Thats a good way to view it but there are issues there

 

Theres nothign wrong with her being the MVP

 

But she literally carries entire games with a single power in a way that no other frame can

 

The closest to her are loki and nyx

 

Nyx gets an extremely high damage mitigation of her own with enemies focusing on eachother. Loki reduces enemies to old infested level.

 

Now the issue Isnt so much what loki and nyx can do as much as what nova does next to them

 

She reduces enemy movement and DPS by 75% on a larger range than both of these frames. She also has damage comparable to saryn but functioning in a way similar to volts ultimate but with far more power. 5 enemies in a group with max power Strength means youre out damaging any ult without TF. It gives a debuff thats comparable to rhinos roar but not quite as high and with fewer conditions on the debuff (Rhino has to be near allies where Nova can simply cast and likely catch anything allies would see).

 

Its not so much shes the quarterback as much as shes carrying the team by playing every role at once

 

Again, there is nothing wrong with an MVP frame or an easy mode frame but it has to have its place

 

Nova is in space (Yes im going to make that pun again and youre going to take it)

 

PS: Also have to look at combinations of powers

 

Nova+ loki or nyx means enemies cant do a thing

 

The diminishing over time idea was probably the best one in this thread

 

It lets nova keep her power but not quite trivialize everything

 

Theres also a possible buff for Null star thats a great power but too slow as is to really be functional and that warp gate thing that costs more than its really worth in energy

 

Really??? You admited on his topic "Bring back IS Facet.... " feeding him for almost 10 pages with nonsensical arguments just to keep him going? That topic ended up having some good ideas on the end, not helped by you or OP but the back and forth, never going anywhere discussion made me un follow it, that made almost 85% of the mammoth 45+ pages it has.

 

 You post "Irrelevant" way too much. Arguing for the sake of arguing without any meaningful idea from your part, except general position and then acting like a wooden lawyer against anyone who has different position.

 

 

On topic and discuss this idea:

 

Mprime stays the same, but doesn't work on enemies with shields?? Including units that have shields thanks to drones.

Speaking of irrelevant, most of this post

 

I thought i replied to that earlier

 

The issue with that is it creates a mag situation where Nova loses viability entirely for one faction in favor of trivializing another

 

Itll be mag for corrupted and corpus and Nova for Grineer and Infested

 

Taking away her viability for an entire faction is worse than leaving her as she is now i think

 

 

If you want a good argument you have to show how and why nova isnt overpowered

 

What about the rest of the 82 meters nova already debuffed?

 

Its not difficult to pick these off when most everything else cant move

 

 

Please, remain on topic (I see a few posts getting a little personal). This discussion has some interesting points, and I don't want to lock it due to a few derails. 

Its good to see a sing that someone is listening for once

 

 

 

Nullifiers are poor argument. Yeah, they can ruin Nova's day. But they can ruin every other frames day just as much if not more.

Theres also that

 

Shoutout to Valkyr,Nekros, and Ember mains who werent even part of the problem to start

 

You can tell nova isn't OP simply because she isn't in every single squad online. Before her nerf, she used to be.

If thats the case then infinite god mode trinity wasnt OP at all

Edited January 27, 2015 by Azawarau

[PerishedFraud]

What about the rest of the 82 meters nova already debuffed?

Edited January 27, 2015 by BeeOverlord

[Burns2PvP]

Null star is a fine ability in ways, sometimes it feels like it does absolutely nothing though.

 

Antimatter Drop : Shoot, Boom. 20m damage (exhaggeration but its still enough to 1 shot everything). Put another antimatter before first explodes, get the damage again and again to repeat.. Its pretty broken.

 

Teleport : ..Nope. Its fine.

 

MP : The way I see it, increasing the speed of infesteds to walk into a vortex (for mid levels), otherwise it using slow to kill a boss.

Theres something wrong with MP. I believe its execution was done amazingly but the concept may have been done a bit better. Atm I can't do a thing with nova solo which imo makes it become a bit worse rather than a nuke like saryn, excal, mirage, ect.

 

Still. If your in a group, Nova shouldn't be in it just because it makes things too easy for the whole multi spam antimatter drops or MP. Nullstar does near nothing, especially with full power against level 30's-50's (Which is what most of the map is I found)

 

 

EDIT : Nullifiers are just a poor solution to power creep I believe. They can't fix it easily and they can't make them so its not spam a weapon that does 25k do the same damage to the bubble that a gun that does 500 dmg to do.

Edited January 27, 2015 by deadinflict

[PerishedFraud]

Nullifiers are just a poor solution

 

Edited January 27, 2015 by BeeOverlord

[(PSN)Silverback73]

You can tell nova isn't OP simply because she isn't in every single squad online. Before her nerf, she used to be.

 

I fail to see exactly what is OP about her, it certainly isn't Wormhole. It isn't null star.

 

AMD is slow and short ranged enough that even with its insane damage, it's still not that useful.

 

MPrime is now much slower to act, and the explosion damage is laughable in any later content. You use it due to the damage multiplier and slow/speedup, neither of which make her OP, just useful. And if you think MPrime is what makes those later T4D waves as easy as the first one, you're being dismissive of the work the other frames are putting in, aand that's just ignorant.

That "If/then" doesn't necessarily hold true. You aren't going to pick up Nova easily like you can Nyx/Mag/Rhino, yet I see her ALOT. I haven't yet played Nova or Rhino for the very reason that the consensus is they are overpowered at certain points in game progression, and I don't trust myself to not get spoiled and ignore the hard work DE has put into other playstyles.

[Azawarau]

 

What about the rest of the 82 meters nova already debuffed?

 

 

 

Nullifiers only afect a small area

 

They dont make enough of a difference to novas ult

 

Keep in mind were talking 82 meters here

 

Nullifiers are just a bump

 

And youre ignoring infested and grineer entirely with this as well

[LisRestall]

Wow, even though there are people who have already stated solid argument as to how Nova is way overpowered and not squishy, I still see some who fails to understand.

 

1. Even looking at the base stats, Nova isn't squishy at all. Too many people are so blind or cannot think critically, why would you want to slap in a Vitality or Redirection mod on Nova when she can utilize Quick Thinking due to her very huge energy pool? Especially since we now have Nova Prime with much more improved energy pool, she can reach 744 energy with a maxed P. Flow and that's 1786 HP where her 65 armor is also applied.

 

"But I'd rather use her energy to cast Mprime than use it as HP", this argument is the dumbest thing ever. Putting in a maxed Vitality mod on Nova would give her 740 Health, 2 ticks of a Large Team Health Restore and she's already almost full HP means you're just wasting the last 2 ticks. While using Large Team Energy Restore would give 400 energy equivalent to 960 HP and Nova can take all those energy with P. Flow. Another thing is VS Nullifiers, at least QT will save your life from a high leveled Nullifier if you got hit, while Vitality wouldn't even save you when you reach like 30+mins on T4S.

 

2. Seriously? We need to explain how Nova actually mitigates incoming damage? So what does the -75% speed then? Just some CC that won't ever reduce the "DPS" of enemies? I'm really surprised how dull some people are when it comes to critical thinking. Heck, it doesn't even need critical thinking.

 

3. Nova is a WHOLE package. Not only she has fast movement, she also has that Wormhole.

 

AMD is useless most of the time? Oh please, have you ever tried that on T4D where the enemy just stacks together around the pod waiting to be demolished by AMD? How is that hard to use or have minimal usage? Even past 60 waves, AMD would still clear mobs easily and that's SOMETHING. T4D is one of the endless void missions so don't tell me people rarely do T4D.

 

Mprime, I don't even know why there's too much happening in this 1 ability. It has 75% slow, this slow isn't simple as it looks, this slow IS the best kind of CC because enemies are so still that you can easily headshot them w/o any effort giving you more damage multiplier. It has high damage that chains on nearby targets WITHOUT having a fall-off, not to mention that this damage is multiplied by 2. If the enemy survives, no worries, the enemy would still take x2 from any incoming damage.

 

Not overpowered? If Nova is a decent frame, then what tier are the other frames who obviously CANT match her abilities? Poop?

[Azawarau]

Wow, even though there are people who have already stated solid argument as to how Nova is way overpowered and not squishy, I still see some who fails to understand.

 

1. Even looking at the base stats, Nova isn't squishy at all. Too many people are so blind or cannot think critically, why would you want to slap in a Vitality or Redirection mod on Nova when she can utilize Quick Thinking due to her very huge energy pool? Especially since we now have Nova Prime with much more improved energy pool, she can reach 744 energy with a maxed P. Flow and that's 1786 HP where her 65 armor is also applied.

 

"But I'd rather use her energy to cast Mprime than use it as HP", this argument is the dumbest thing ever. Putting in a maxed Vitality mod on Nova would give her 740 Health, 2 ticks of a Large Team Health Restore and she's already almost full HP means you're just wasting the last 2 ticks. While using Large Team Energy Restore would give 400 energy equivalent to 960 HP and Nova can take all those energy with P. Flow. Another thing is VS Nullifiers, at least QT will save your life from a high leveled Nullifier if you got hit, while Vitality wouldn't even save you when you reach like 30+mins on T4S.

 

2. Seriously? We need to explain how Nova actually mitigates incoming damage? So what does the -75% speed then? Just some CC that won't ever reduce the "DPS" of enemies? I'm really surprised how dull some people are when it comes to critical thinking. Heck, it doesn't even need critical thinking.

 

3. Nova is a WHOLE package. Not only she has fast movement, she also has that Wormhole.

 

AMD is useless most of the time? Oh please, have you ever tried that on T4D where the enemy just stacks together around the pod waiting to be demolished by AMD? How is that hard to use or have minimal usage? Even past 60 waves, AMD would still clear mobs easily and that's SOMETHING. T4D is one of the endless void missions so don't tell me people rarely do T4D.

 

Mprime, I don't even know why there's too much happening in this 1 ability. It has 75% slow, this slow isn't simple as it looks, this slow IS the best kind of CC because enemies are so still that you can easily headshot them w/o any effort giving you more damage multiplier. It has high damage that chains on nearby targets WITHOUT having a fall-off, not to mention that this damage is multiplied by 2. If the enemy survives, no worries, the enemy would still take x2 from any incoming damage.

 

Not overpowered? If Nova is a decent frame, then what tier are the other frames who obviously CANT match her abilities? Poop?

I am 155% <HA< on your side but to be fair

 

AMD does deal incredible damage despite its relative difficulty of use

 

I feel like it has a justified amount of damage for what it does

 

Though if it became easier to use for less damage thatd be nice as well

[Kurrumitsumi]

honestly i think if you don't play her then you really should leaver her alone, i would be okay with power strength not having such a great effect on the enemy's like a cap of maybe 50% or something, but it certainly shouldn't be removed.

 

i mean, if you don't want to play her, i feel like you have the right to ask for changes on her because other people play her and you don't like how her ability's affect the enemy.

[(XBOX)Motive cK]

....don't play nova

[Easymac]

If you want a good argument you have to show how and why nova isnt overpowered

To be overpowered means to be better then other possible selection.

That being said, nova isn't necessary in any given mission. For survival, I'd say loki and vauban are overpowered. For defence, I'd say limbo and mesa. For extermination, I'd say Saryn.

infested defence, limbo and vauban.

Nova"Can Be used" but I don't think just because she's got some strong abilities makes her overpowered.

[Azawarau]

honestly i think if you don't play her then you really should leaver her alone, i would be okay with power strength not having such a great effect on the enemy's like a cap of maybe 50% or something, but it certainly shouldn't be removed.

 

i mean, if you don't want to play her, i feel like you have the right to ask for changes on her because other people play her and you don't like how her ability's affect the enemy.

Thats not fair at all

 

Thats like saying if you dont play her you cant complain about being disadvantaged

 

Shes one of my favorite frames because i have a thing for explosions and chain explosions >Max C 4 engineer on PS2. Will crash a galaxy on your tank/sunderer and C 4 it or die trying< and i dont like playing her because she makes it too easy

 

My officer begs me not to play her because she makes the game too slow and easy

 

 

....don't play nova

That is not an argument that is fair or reasonable

[Silverton]

Personally when doing long term t4 survival I don't see a Nova. It is always Loki and Mag. So I think we should also nerf what these two frames do best. Radial disarm is just way to good and shield polarize is way to strong at late game. I guess I see Nova in T4 defense, but I just normally run with Mesa and Trinity. So let us nerf the range on Mesa's 4 and nerf all of trinity these girls are to good. So we have taken care of 4 frames here, but what about excalibur in interception he makes it to easy let us nerf his four back to line of sight shall we. While we are at it let us nerf Saryn's range shall we, I find it really boring when she nukes faster than my MP. So this leaves just a few frames left that are over powered in t4 and high scale missions. So let us make bladestorm damage based instead of guaranteed kill. This about covers the heavy hitters and in a few months after all this is done we can point the nerf stick at the remainders. Rhino's stomp is to good, Hydroid's tentacles and under tow is pretty good at this point, Ember is better now in comparison, oh no Frost has his stun ultimate that is a no go, and Zephyr's Tornados is to easy. I mean once we have taken care of all this we can just run around with the useless frames for 90% of the game. Unless we $#*(@ about Volt making rushing easier.

 

So no I don't think she should be nerfed. Each warframe has something they are good at (almost). MP is great and all, but eventually she does become useless, the problem is to reach the point of useless on her t4 40m+ it takes time. So maybe we need higher level missions that start us out with enemies level 55+. Also I'd like to see these people who do find Nova's in higher missions achieve 40+ as easily without her (it is doable).  

Edited January 27, 2015 by Silverton

[SgtFlex]

I get what many people are saying here about that being the frames niche and such. However, she is the only frame in the game with an insane amount of Debuffs

 

One MP can be built out for range and duration, with a bit of strength and you have

-Massive group affected by such, and killing some can set off a chain reaction to kill many others

-They are all slowed in movement speed

-Their rate of fire is massively slowed

-the Team gets 2x damage against any enemy affected

 

It's just an insane amount of debuffs for one power. One too many IMO. They should at least tune down the Rate of Fire effect, or make it so slowing powers dont affect enemies Rate of Fire. It has made waves upon waves of enemies easy. Don't even get me started on bosses with this power either. It's impossible for any boss to fight back with the Slow effect on him, and he remains exposed for nearly 3x he usually is.

[Azawarau]

To be overpowered means to be better then other possible selection.

That being said, nova isn't necessary in any given mission. For survival, I'd say loki and vauban are overpowered. For defence, I'd say limbo and mesa. For extermination, I'd say Saryn.

infested defence, limbo and vauban.

Nova"Can Be used" but I don't think just because she's got some strong abilities makes her overpowered.

No necesarily

 

A great example of that is old trinity again

 

She couldnt die but thats all she had going for her

 

In terms of killing power,defending an objective, and controlling the field other frames were better

 

Trinity was still overpowered because she simply could not die in any practical situation or some extremely impractical ones

 

Sitting an hour into T 1 survival using nothing but EV while my officer on Valkyr spammed melee was more than enough to solidify this for me

 

The same can be said of Nova

 

When we ran T 4 defense with 2 absolute strangers and no frost we managed to get to wave 40 when the others decided to leave us because it was too slow and boring

 

Another time we made it to lvl 70 on a corpus defense and just couldnt stand it anymore so we both left

 

Now for your examples

 

For survival Nova offers the widest range of direct damage mitigation for the team (Both nyx and loki are indirect) while damage buffing and increasing survivability on a range that will cover more than loki and nyx

 

For defense she mitigates the damage intake of the pod and frost shields by 75% again increasing survivability. She also slows enemies so much that their chance of getting within accurate firing range of the pod is severely reduced

 

Exterminates depend on your novas build but generally speaking its the easiest mode so its a bit hard to call saryn the best when every frame is effective at it. generally speaking saryn will clear it fastest though

[Kurrumitsumi]

Thats not fair at all

 

Thats like saying if you dont play her you cant complain about being disadvantaged

 

Shes one of my favorite frames because i have a thing for explosions and chain explosions >Max C 4 engineer on PS2. Will crash a galaxy on your tank/sunderer and C 4 it or die trying< and i dont like playing her because she makes it too easy

 

My officer begs me not to play her because she makes the game too slow and easy

 

 

That is not an argument that is fair or reasonable

i don't see how your disadvantaged, there are a lot of frames who's ability's i don't like, but i don't play them so why would i try to change a frame someone else loves? like limbo's cataclysm, i hate not being able to pick up items but i'm not gonna tell anyone who plays him to change the way they play or just to not play him at all, that's mean and rude.

 

and you can play her without building strength and still get a boost in damage and some crowd control. i just got her and i really like her just the way she is, is it fair to me or others to change any frame because some don't like it?

[JayGideon1]

After reading this entire thread i must come to the conclusion that Nova does not need a nerf at all. I dont even care for Nova, i leveled her and have her still mostly as a collection piece, and i think that one thing you guys are ignoring is there is a large amount of players who simply do not care and what i mean by this is that, there are tons of players that wont play Nova because they dont like to, and simply not having a Nova in your party is a pretty reasonable solution. Type like three more words into your recruitment chat message, realy not that hard.  I wasn't even aware there was a "problem" with nova and i know a lot of players are unaware of any problems either, meaning this is not some sort of glaring issue.

And furthermore i have no idea what sort of godly Nova players you play with but if they can do that well with a frame to the point where the only end game we have is "trivialized" im of the opinion they deserve it, seriously i have played with plenty of Nova's and none of them have "trivialized" a anything. I mean its her Ultimate ability it should be pretty ultimate.

[Azawarau]

i don't see how your disadvantaged, there are a lot of frames who's ability's i don't like, but i don't play them so why would i try to change a frame someone else loves? like limbo's cataclysm, i hate not being able to pick up items but i'm not gonna tell anyone who plays him to change the way they play or just to not play him at all, that's mean and rude.

 

and you can play her without building strength and still get a boost in damage and some crowd control. i just got her and i really like her just the way she is, is it fair to me or others to change any frame because some don't like it?

Ive explained that already

 

Novas power does too much on too wide a range

 

Its not about hurting what someone else loves and you shouldnt make it personal like that

 

Noone should have to hurt themselves either

 

Your argument us dont hurt me, hurt yourself instead. Again that isnt fair or reaonable

 

We should be able to use any frame to its fullest and not have to weaken ourselves to make the game challenge us

[Grander.Alderman]

Nullifiers only afect a small area

 

They dont make enough of a difference to novas ult

 

Keep in mind were talking 82 meters here

 

Cannot agree with you here. One nullifier only affects a small area, but after a certain level these bastards start spawning so much that they collectively cover almost all the other mobs as well as themselves, making all powers and low fire rate weapons useless. And since nova has ​no defensive abilities to help against the waves of enemies firing at her out of the wall of nullifier orbs, she's pretty much screwed.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Grander.Alderman

[Azawarau]

After reading this entire thread i must come to the conclusion that Nova does not need a nerf at all. I dont even care for Nova, i leveled her and have her still mostly as a collection piece, and i think that one thing you guys are ignoring is there is a large amount of players who simply do not care and what i mean by this is that, there are tons of players that wont play Nova because they dont like to, and simply not having a Nova in your party is a pretty reasonable solution. Type like three more words into your recruitment chat message, realy not that hard.  I wasn't even aware there was a "problem" with nova and i know a lot of players are unaware of any problems either, meaning this is not some sort of glaring issue.

And furthermore i have no idea what sort of godly Nova players you play with but if they can do that well with a frame to the point where the only end game we have is "trivialized" im of the opinion they deserve it, seriously i have played with plenty of Nova's and none of them have "trivialized" a anything. I mean its her Ultimate ability it should be pretty ultimate.

Youre going under the assumption that her ultimate wont be ultimate after changing

 

Youre also ignoring her ultimate compared to the ultimates of others by comparison which is where the issue comes from

 

Also this post is under the assumption that people dont want it to be an ultimate

 

None of that is the case and youre missing the point by far

 

Comparatively speaking Nova does too much for too little

 

Its not about anything except bringing her in line ith other ultimates that certainly are ultimates

[Azawarau]

Cannot agree with you here. One nullifier only affects a small area, but after a certain level these bastards start spawning so much that they collectively cover almost all the other mobs as well as themselves, making all powers and low fire rate weapons useless. And since nova has ​no defensive abilities to help against the waves of enemies firing at her out of the wall of nullifier orbs, she's pretty much screwed.

As someone pointed out, Nullifiers affect every frame that way

 

Nova is one of the least affected because she affects such a high amount of enemies

 

Nullifiers dont spawn enough to simply negate 80 meters of enemies that cant move or even come close to it

 

If nothing else you have to accept that any disadvantage nova has here is shared by every frame in the game

[Grander.Alderman]

As someone pointed out, Nullifiers affect every frame that way

 

Nova is one of the least affected because she affects such a high amount of enemies

 

Nullifiers dont spawn enough to simply negate 80 meters of enemies that cant move or even come close to it

 

If nothing else you have to accept that any disadvantage nova has here is shared by every frame in the game

 

My point was that Nova was just as disadvantaged against the nullifiers as any other frame.

 

But no, she's by far not the least disadvantaged against them, The majority of frames have defensive abilities (which nova doesn't have) that are less disadvantaged simply because they can protect themselves from being shot by (temporarily) invulnerable enemies long enough to kill their shields or get close enough for melee while Nova is left open and vulnerable (Iron Skin, Snow Globe, Turbulence, Eclipse, Shatter Shield, Rift Walk, Blessing and so on and so forth).

Nova has a much lower survivability than most frames, and she's supposed to be that way since her abilities trade that off for offense, that doesn't make her OP in my eyes.

 

And abilities aside, Nova also has the second lowest shield capacity (only Valkyr has less, but Valkyr has 600 armor) , and pretty insignificant armor. She shares those stats with five other frames, all of which have ways of protecting themselves from fire, Nova doesn't.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Grander.Alderman