Stealth Feedback & Suggestions Thread

[_Chaser]

stealth is not about killing btw, but about getting job done undetected without leaving a trace. like destroying reactor and vanishing without leaving a pile of corpses behind.

Edited May 22, 2013 by n7snk

[Probta16]

I had a epiphany and now i see clearly.

 

Assuming that if you are going stealth you are not going killing everyone. For each room that you pass, you receive the same xp of killing all enemies that was in the room with a xp bonus of 10~20%. Of course, if you come back and kill everyone there will be no xp from they. The bonus is because while in stealth the spawn of enemies will be less than a run where they get alerted. If you killed someone you receive his xp directly, after passing the room you will receive a bonus that is less than 10% because you made the things more easy reducing the chance that you could be spotted in that room. If a enemy spot you but you kill him before he trigger the alarm there is no bonus after passing the room.

 

If the alarm is turned off, there is no xp bonus when you pass the room plus the next will have a reduced (not so much) bonus.

 

Skill need to have something like a limit usage because they make the things easier. I think in limit to 1 use that would count for the four skills and a cooldown of 2~3 room. If exceed, the bonus by passing the room is reduced.

 

For the xp bonus, should be considered that there will be no mods and less resources unless you kill the enemies and suffer the consequences that i said.

 

Sentinels would need some special stealth behavior to fit in it. Shade would make you invisible only if you are in sight of a grineer and his skill will have the same cooldown as a normal skill. Wymr would attack only when you get spotted. And of course, stop floating in your head.

 

This is it.

 

The only post that influenced me was the first in this topic. If someone else posted these ideas before i do not have read it. Warframe is my first game that i played in stealth XD The other games i just have watched a part of the gameplay and trailers.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Probta16

[Youriky]

I don't agree with the end mission bonus, but I agree that you should get some kind of reward while you perform stealth kill,form example is you assassinate an enemy you will be rewarded with 100 xp (like getting affinity orbs).

Also I recommend some kind of notoriety meter. That alerts you how alerted are the enemies about your presence on the mission. And the notoriety meter drops after a long period of time and you return back to undetected state

Note:the game is not well designed and optimized for stealth play. Even if it's possible there should be different mechanics and level design (how the maps are designed) for a well optimized stealth play.

[_Chaser]

I don't agree with the end mission bonus, but I agree that you should get some kind of reward while you perform stealth kill,form example is you assassinate an enemy you will be rewarded with 100 xp (like getting affinity orbs).

Also I recommend some kind of notoriety meter. That alerts you how alerted are the enemies about your presence on the mission. And the notoriety meter drops after a long period of time and you return back to undetected state

Note:the game is not well designed and optimized for stealth play. Even if it's possible there should be different mechanics and level design (how the maps are designed) for a well optimized stealth play.

i will surprise you, but stealth is more or less fine to this moment and the only things that left to make it work proper are:

 

end mission reward

 

ability to disable alarm

 + couple of tweaks

 

stealth is not about killing. stealth is about getting objective completed without leaving trace of your presence.

 

Edited May 24, 2013 by n7snk

[Rayth]

I see a couple of things throughout this thread that make no sense to me at all. I love stealth games, and I can say from experience in this game that killing enemies with stealth is infinitely harder than just going about without being noticed. Not even getting into using powers or Shade, throw on enemy radar and walk around some boxes while crouched. Killing enemies and having to move out into the open provides a great deal more challenge, so why not reward a player for that approach? It doesn't have to be the same reward, but by the time you have spent 15-20 minutes on a level trying to time the best approach to clear every room of enemies without being noticed, only to get punished for having a relatively low kill count, seems like an absolute waste of time. I don't remember reading anywhere that we are supposed to be spies, we are ninja, trained for stealth and combat. While the game may be much more geared towards mass chaos like most FPS, stealthily traversing our way throughout a level, taking immense caution not to be noticed, and wiping out the entire ship seems like the kind of thing space ninjas, emphasis ninjas, would do. Although maybe a better alternative to rewarding any particular playstyle (even though it seems like all stealth playstyles are entirely unviable atm, especially late game) it would be terribly interesting to see optional levels spread throughout the solar system that can only be beaten by going through unnoticed without killing anyone, with other levels to be for killing everyone unnoticed. Then the level is designed for that playstyle, and therefor the reward would be more easily managed, with time and effort being the reward given, instead of simply the number of kills achieved. It would just be nice to see 20 minutes of thoughtful game play receive the same reward as 4 sets of 5 minutes worth of rushing.

[Probta16]

Yeah, i like to kill while in stealth. I think it would work fine if there are two kind of stealth mission that you could play. You still could kill one or two or leave someone alive but you should assume just one style in the middle of the mission.

 

About the end mission reward. Its the most simple way to implement a incentive to play stealth but it hardly will be precisely without much other changes.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Probta16

[AsianJoyKiller]

I'm finding the Kunai to be relatively useless for stealth.

 

Here's the reason, if you don't 1-shot your enemy, everyone in the local area is alerted immediately. It doesn't matter if they're out of LoS, or if the target didn't even get a shot off.

If the target doesn't die immediately, somehow everyone psychicly knows that that there's been an attack and knows exactly where to find you in an instant.

 

If stealth is to work properly in Warframe, there's can't be this sort of "everybody's psychic" BS.

[Probta16]

I'm finding the Kunai to be relatively useless for stealth.

 

Here's the reason, if you don't 1-shot your enemy, everyone in the local area is alerted immediately. It doesn't matter if they're out of LoS, or if the target didn't even get a shot off.

If the target doesn't die immediately, somehow everyone psychicly knows that that there's been an attack and knows exactly where to find you in an instant.

 

If stealth is to work properly in Warframe, there's can't be this sort of "everybody's psychic" BS.

Do you were playing with someone? You were the the host?

 

In solo i shot one enemy with the kunai to change his patrol route and the other enemies do not got alerted. But in online i think there is a bug with kunai and bow that are making the other enemies get alert when you are not the host.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Probta16

[AsianJoyKiller]

Do you were playing with someone? You were the the host?

 

In solo i shot one enemy with the kunai to change his patrol route and the other enemies do not got alerted. But in online i think there is a bug with kunai and bow that are making the other enemies get alert when you are not the host.

I was solo.

[BoompigXD]

stealth is not about killing btw, but about getting job done undetected without leaving a trace. like destroying reactor and vanishing without leaving a pile of corpses behind.

Yes but you are still suggesting that stealth is the correct way to play i was proposing an idead for people who prefer diffrent gameplay styles so everybody can still get bonus exp without stealth

[Probta16]

Yes but you are still suggesting that stealth is the correct way to play i was proposing an idead for people who prefer diffrent gameplay styles so everybody can still get bonus exp without stealth

The bonus is to make a balance in the reward of exp. In stealth you will kill less so without any bonus you will receive less exp.

[Rayth]

You are arguing semantics, you are saying stealth isn't about killing things, but if that was the case why would they be referred to as stealth kills? What you want would be more aptly named Infiltration. 

Edited May 24, 2013 by Rayth

[BoompigXD]

You are arguing semantics, you are saying stealth isn't about killing things, but if that was the case why would they be referred to as stealth kills? What you want would be more aptly named Infiltration. 

 

Exactly my point. Some people prefer to run'n'gun then try to stealth it. So their should be an exp bonus for both so that people can enjoy diffrent combat style's which basically what stealth is for in this game, not having to deal with a bunch of enemies and instead singleing them out one at a time,let's not forget the exterminate missions too, if stealth isn't about killing things then those would have to scraped, also i kill plenty of things with my Paris when stealthing and DE put in stealth kills so stealth is quite literally another form of combat in this game.

Edited May 24, 2013 by BoompigXD

[Probta16]

In this way, we want a option of a new stealth combat style.

 

The actual that you kill all enemies is not worth because you take the twice of the time for the same exp as a run'n'gun. This is why a exp bonus is needed only for the stealth to be a viable option for the gameplay and not the right way.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Probta16

[BoompigXD]

Then add a sort of chain stealth kill feature like in Far Cry 3:Blood Dragon.

[Probta16]

Then add a sort of chain stealth kill feature like in Far Cry 3:Blood Dragon.

I thought that but i would not like. Remind me the Sonic game.

 

If a enemy are turned to you it would not be possible to perform the kill so you will have to wait, ending up the same thing. Some enemies can be killed with charge attack that is fast than the stealth. Chain stealth kill is not so worth.

[OssomSagax]

I think the roll should be performed only if you are in crouch, then press sprint at all, thusly even holding it won't put you into sprinting if you are crouched. Also, maybe more assasination animations would be most welcome!

[Maespa]

One of the more frustrating things about going into a mission with intent to stealth is when the "exploding munitions stores" random event thing occurs, because everyone on the ship is instantly alerted to you from the moment you enter the level.   Even more frustrating when you get the "10 kills on unalerted enemies" thing.

[IndianCuisine]

I think the rewards should be stealth-related if you go the stealth route. Like a silencer mod or Invisibility Mod upgrades. Also, more XP for stealth gameplay makes sense, because stealth gameplay is longer and harder than run-and-gunning. Getting a penalty for not stealth-ing is a bad idea since it'll seem like not stealth-ing is a bad idea. Mainly I think that alert consoles should be really obvious so we can find and keep baddies away from them, or we should be able to destroy them without any alarms gong off. gunshots without silencing should alert all enemies only in the current map file and all weapons except for multi-kill ones should always be silent, whether you stealth kill or charge kill. This'll make it so if we kill a dude half a sec after he sees us, no one will be alerted unless we don't really care about stealth and are running around with a very conspicuous hammer.

[Whackhat]

Hey, i posted a lengthy stealth rework idea here on these forums. I agree with the majority of the suggestions here, as well as every one of the bug fixes, but the rework I posted goes quite a bit more in-depth into mechanics and features. If you like it, maybe there is a way we can combine posts into a main stealth rework post.

[EvilxFish]

when shade uses ghost he should be stealthed as well

[coolitic]

I believe that the stealth gameplay should match Crysis series stealth gameplay. If they see you for a short moment or notice someone suddenly get killed, they should go like "huh? what was that" or "ill go check it out". But when they clearly see you they shouldn't immediately run for control console out in the open like a headless chicken, rather they should have some "hold the line" and some would try to make their way cover-to-cover and to get to the console.

[PIzzazza]

Hi everybody, I just don't hav time to read the whole thirty-sth pages, maybe this idea is already discussed and banned, if so just simply tell me pls :)

My question: Turning alert "on and off" does not make sense

It's just ridiculas to turn it "on and off", cause if you were the enemies, how would u react when the buzzing alarm suddenly turns off while the Tennos are still alive? Could the enemies just simply reactivate it again? If so what's the point of turning it off? Also when the alert is suddenly shut, wouldn't the enemies be able to realise? The control room (don't tell me there is no one) should be able to make counter moves as well. Pls, be more realistic that we are not in a boring stupid cartoon world.

My suggestion: "Dark mode" or any name u may like, hide-and-seek in the dark

I think we don't need to stuck in this "on and off" alert system, but provide another way of stealth mode, the "dark mode".

If the alert is triggered by enemies, instead of turning off the alert, can we hack their system to shut the lights system (or part of the energy supply system?), to shut down all lights? In this "Dark mode", enemies could just use flashlights to search for the Tennos, so their cone of vision would be reduced (to the cone of flashlights), players won't be spotted so easily.

I don't hav time to think the details, just give u the basic picture :)

While there should be balancing in this mode:

1.The terminal for hacking should be well-guarded, in a position that players would get into tough situation ( I'm new and haven't mastered the game, but u guys should know how does this look like), and should be different from doors-hacking as it is important and powerful.

2. Triggering the "dark mode" immediately triggers the alert system, just in case if some super players manage to backstab every guard.

3. Players should be able to choose using flashlights or not (add a hotkey). While using flashlights, players will be spotted but they can see more clearly (offensive), while without is the opposite (defensive).

4. The score counting may have some argues, that is "dark mode" considered to be stealth mode ( I think it's no)

This mode would provide a defensive alternation for stealth players that even the alert was triggered, players can still play in stealth mode, and also an offensive alternation for rush players to deploy a strategic plan. If this idea is already discussed or banned, just tell me, or else feel free to comment :)

[_Chaser]

Hi everybody, I just don't hav time to read the whole thirty-sth pages, maybe this idea is already discussed and banned, if so just simply tell me pls :)

My question: Turning alert "on and off" does not make sense

It's just ridiculas to turn it "on and off", cause if you were the enemies, how would u react when the buzzing alarm suddenly turns off while the Tennos are still alive? Could the enemies just simply reactivate it again? If so what's the point of turning it off? Also when the alert is suddenly shut, wouldn't the enemies be able to realise? The control room (don't tell me there is no one) should be able to make counter moves as well. Pls, be more realistic that we are not in a boring stupid cartoon world.

My suggestion: "Dark mode" or any name u may like, hide-and-seek in the dark

I think we don't need to stuck in this "on and off" alert system, but provide another way of stealth mode, the "dark mode".

If the alert is triggered by enemies, instead of turning off the alert, can we hack their system to shut the lights system (or part of the energy supply system?), to shut down all lights? In this "Dark mode", enemies could just use flashlights to search for the Tennos, so their cone of vision would be reduced (to the cone of flashlights), players won't be spotted so easily.

I don't hav time to think the details, just give u the basic picture :)

While there should be balancing in this mode:

1.The terminal for hacking should be well-guarded, in a position that players would get into tough situation ( I'm new and haven't mastered the game, but u guys should know how does this look like), and should be different from doors-hacking as it is important and powerful.

2. Triggering the "dark mode" immediately triggers the alert system, just in case if some super players manage to backstab every guard.

3. Players should be able to choose using flashlights or not (add a hotkey). While using flashlights, players will be spotted but they can see more clearly (offensive), while without is the opposite (defensive).

4. The score counting may have some argues, that is "dark mode" considered to be stealth mode ( I think it's no)

This mode would provide a defensive alternation for stealth players that even the alert was triggered, players can still play in stealth mode, and also an offensive alternation for rush players to deploy a strategic plan. If this idea is already discussed or banned, just tell me, or else feel free to comment :)

err okay, let me elaborate...

 

being able to turn alarm off means that it can be activated again.

grineer reaction on alarm off - means that intruders were eliminated.

 

dark modes sounds fun but it's the same. if enemies are in alarm state they will keep attacking you. if you turn light off and mean that they will suddenly go into alarm but in dark so you will be able to sneak up on them will mean the same as turning off alarm.

 

my standpoint about any stealth suggestion is simple: the simplier - the better, the faster we will get it.

[SFkenny]

I'd also like to see a darkness mode with a flashlight toggle. Perhaps you could also briefly blind opponents by turning on the flashlight in their faces.