Friendly Fire: Why Not An Option (Feedback)?

[Renegade343]

Make it an option for 'invite only' then. I can and sometimes do join friends mid mission and vise versa.

Or make it an option you to accept friendly fire onto your own Frame, instead of an option to inflict it upon others.

Which I already stated in the original post itself:

 

"Friends Only" matchmaking only has that option.  

[Onisa]

Which I already stated in the original post itself:

 

"Friends Only" matchmaking only has that option.  

'Friends Only' and 'Invite Only' are two different game modes.

[Renegade343]

'Friends Only' and 'Invite Only' are two different game modes.

But with "Invite Only", that gives more leeway to mess up other players. 

 

That is why I set it to be "Friends Only" only: Players can make friends with other players to play in that match (as in: A match where friendly fire is enabled), while the general whole of the game (Public, Invite Only, Solo) is left as it is. 

[Xikiri]

I don't know about you guys, but it's really frustrating to see all of these no's and no why-it-wont's.

I mean, come on. Put some thought into your responses, and don't dismiss others' counterarguments as for why you believe it won't work. This community is full of brains that rush and rush into oblivion and beyond. Show that. Show us why something like this wouldn't be logical or even beneficial.

 

 

"It's because of the damage."
Nerf Player-on-Player damage to a tiny fraction of the weapon's full capabilities.

 

"It's because of people wanting to kill one another."

If it's friends goofing off, why's it matter to you? If your friend is being inconsiderate, regroup the squad and exclude him/her. Furthermore, we already have a kind of friendly fire no one likes -- Void Defense lasers. Because ohohohoooboy, ain't it fun to insta-gib people? >__>

 

"What could we gain from having Friendly Fire?"

Projectiles wouldn't be canceled out (with assistance from Shred and/or Metal Auger) and Rage could be utilized in an alternate manner. Just two of many prime (no pun intended) examples for this game to use it.

[Onisa]

But with "Invite Only", that gives more leeway to mess up other players. 

 

That is why I set it to be "Friends Only" only: Players can make friends with other players to play in that match (as in: A match where friendly fire is enabled), while the general whole of the game (Public, Invite Only, Solo) is left as it is. 

Huh? The more restrictive game mode gives more leeway for messing with players?

 

So you're worried a random Tenno will invite someone to a FF game but it doesn't phase you that anyone on your friends list can can join unannounced to any squad you are a part of while there's an opening and incomplete objective? Invites aren't blind anymore, you are told where you are being invited to. Add 'Friendly Fire Enabled' in red letters or something  for such missions and ta-da!

[Renegade343]

Huh? The more restrictive game mode gives more leeway for messing with players?

Invite Only is more restrictive in terms of having to invite other players to join, and uninvited players cannot join. At least with Friends Only, friends of the player can join anytime they want. 

 

So you're worried a random Tenno will invite someone to a FF game but it doesn't phase you that anyone on your friends list can can join unannounced to any squad you are a part of while there's an opening and incomplete objective? Invites aren't blind anymore, you are told where you are being invited to. Add 'Friendly Fire Enabled' in red letters or something  for such missions and ta-da!

But you see one thing with Invite Only: 

 

There is a good possibility that the host can quickly swap to Friendly Fire Enabled right before the timer counts down to 0. That means if Friendly Fire were to be enabled in Invite Only, there is a good chance that many Invite Only game hosts would use this method to mess up other players' games. That is why I suggested to restrict this option to Friends Only, because not only is the player limited to invite players that are friends in that matchmaking mode, the player needs to send friend requests to other players if said player does have a wish to mess up said players' games, in which those players can decline the friend request. 

 

In short, I am introducing this mechanism with strict rules so that the vast majority of the game is not affected, while friends can just muck about. 

[Onisa]

Invite Only is more restrictive in terms of having to invite other players to join, and uninvited players cannot join. At least with Friends Only, friends of the player can join anytime they want. 

 

But you see one thing with Invite Only: 

 

There is a good possibility that the host can quickly swap to Friendly Fire Enabled right before the timer counts down to 0. That means if Friendly Fire were to be enabled in Invite Only, there is a good chance that many Invite Only game hosts would use this method to mess up other players' games. That is why I suggested to restrict this option to Friends Only, because not only is the player limited to invite players that are friends in that matchmaking mode, the player needs to send friend requests to other players if said player does have a wish to mess up said players' games, in which those players can decline the friend request. 

 

In short, I am introducing this mechanism with strict rules so that the vast majority of the game is not affected, while friends can just muck about. 

It's a pity we can't leave any mission we want to whenever then, huh.

 

They must have changed something then because I've hosted random keys and taxied people not on my friends list while I was in 'Friends Only' mode.

 

Here's a suggestion: a fifth mode that that is for Friendly Fire. There, no last second mode swaps and as long as you put mention of the mode no trickery at all.

[Renegade343]

They must have changed something then because I've hosted random keys and taxied people not on my friends list while I was in 'Friends Only' mode.

You could also invite clan members, which may not necessarily be your friends. 

[Bobtm]

I don't know about you guys, but it's really frustrating to see all of these no's and no why-it-wont's.

I mean, come on. Put some thought into your responses, and don't dismiss others' counterarguments as for why you believe it won't work. This community is full of brains that rush and rush into oblivion and beyond. Show that. Show us why something like this wouldn't be logical or even beneficial.

 

 

"It's because of the damage."

Nerf Player-on-Player damage to a tiny fraction of the weapon's full capabilities.

 

"It's because of people wanting to kill one another."

If it's friends goofing off, why's it matter to you? If your friend is being inconsiderate, regroup the squad and exclude him/her. Furthermore, we already have a kind of friendly fire no one likes -- Void Defense lasers. Because ohohohoooboy, ain't it fun to insta-gib people? >__>

 

"What could we gain from having Friendly Fire?"

Projectiles wouldn't be canceled out (with assistance from Shred and/or Metal Auger) and Rage could be utilized in an alternate manner. Just two of many prime (no pun intended) examples for this game to use it.

 

It's equally frustrating to see folks arguing for something that doens't add anything valuable to the gameplay here at all.

 

Look at things that do, and then things that do not have friendly fire.  It's not the type of addition that just gets tossed into a game last minute or later on "because why not?", this is a core fundamental part of the game's gameplay styling.

 

If the damage dealt between players is reduced to being minimal... well do you realize how much of a reduction would be necessary for that to take place?  We've got folks critting in the millions on the deep end of the spectrum, with multi-ten thousand damage crits being a fairly regularly attainable thing.  We've got DPS numbers upwards of thirty-thousand easy.  We've got spammable AoE abilities that do 1,000+ Damage.  Between the constant nature of our ability to deal damage, and the numbers of it we then deal... well you'd need to have the FF damage mitigated by 99.99% for it to work.  At that point though the FF is not more than a triviality and adds basically nothing to the game.

 

On the flip side of the coin, look at CC abilities, they're just as problematic due to their inherently spammable nature.  Giving players an extreme resistance to these would effectively be just as necessary as the above noted point, but then it has the same issue.  The whole point becomes entirely moot... no real gameplay added to anything.

 

Warframe is massively offensively skewed, and it's screaming wanton destruction at the top of its lungs right now.  That's now where FF lies in games.  FF is a thing to punish poor choices in games with more precision tactical approaches and styles.

 

I'm against it because of how little sense it appears to make.  I genuinely see nothing to be gained from this additon, instead seeing it as a massive waste of anyone's time.  Both player time and developer time.  To single out the arguement of "firing through allies" they could... well just code it so our shots pass through one another.  Then again I'm fine with being unable to shoot through teammates, but that's not something one can use as grounds for this suggestion at all.

[Rakshal]

I see no problem with having an option. I mean I already like downing my friends with radiation procs anyways so why not. :P

[jjpdn]

Why is everybody saying no?

I would love to have this as an option.

 

Maybe even 2x xp or something from this mode.

[Renegade343]

Look at things that do, and then things that do not have friendly fire.  It's not the type of addition that just gets tossed into a game last minute or later on "because why not?", this is a core fundamental part of the game's gameplay styling.

Call of Duty has friendly fire, and that game's gameplay styling is really just a bit of destroying everything [or shooting everything/everyone up without much care in the world, because regenerating health + lots of bullets just lying around the place], except the compulsory stealth parts (the older ones were better though, by a bit of a margin).

 

If the damage dealt between players is reduced to being minimal... well do you realize how much of a reduction would be necessary for that to take place?  We've got folks critting in the millions on the deep end of the spectrum, with multi-ten thousand damage crits being a fairly regularly attainable thing.  We've got DPS numbers upwards of thirty-thousand easy.  We've got spammable AoE abilities that do 1,000+ Damage.  Between the constant nature of our ability to deal damage, and the numbers of it we then deal... well you'd need to have the FF damage mitigated by 99.99% for it to work.  At that point though the FF is not more than a triviality and adds basically nothing to the game.

This is for actually having some options for players to have fun while doing the routine things in the game (i.e.: Running Defence, running some missions for x item etc.). 

 

After all, a game is supposed to let the players have fun, not make them feel that they are doing a second job (which apparently, a significant portion of the players in this forums are seeing as this). Give them a few tools (e.g.: Such as this, but only in "Friends Only" matchmaking), and let them create their own games with the tools provided. 

 

Yes, this game's tone might be a bit serious, but then again, the game does have Halloween decorations and such for the festivals/holidays, so having a bit of light-heartedness would help to aid the more grounded tone of the game. 

 

Warframe is massively offensively skewed, and it's screaming wanton destruction at the top of its lungs right now.  That's now where FF lies in games.  FF is a thing to punish poor choices in games with more precision tactical approaches and styles.

Or used to just have a laugh with a bunch of mates. 

 

In the end, I see this addition as something to have something refreshing to do on a Friday night after lots of running around missions later (and yes, I do set myself challenges and pace myself to not get bored of the game, so that I can enjoy playing the game). 

[Bobtm]

Tagged part of this to save space.

Call of Duty has friendly fire, and that game's gameplay styling is really just a bit of destroying everything [or shooting everything/everyone up without much care in the world, because regenerating health + lots of bullets just lying around the place], except the compulsory stealth parts (the older ones were better though, by a bit of a margin).

This is for actually having some options for players to have fun while doing the routine things in the game (i.e.: Running Defence, running some missions for x item etc.). 

 

After all, a game is supposed to let the players have fun, not make them feel that they are doing a second job (which apparently, a significant portion of the players in this forums are seeing as this). Give them a few tools (e.g.: Such as this, but only in "Friends Only" matchmaking), and let them create their own games with the tools provided. 

 

Yes, this game's tone might be a bit serious, but then again, the game does have Halloween decorations and such for the festivals/holidays, so having a bit of light-heartedness would help to aid the more grounded tone of the game. 

 

Or used to just have a laugh with a bunch of mates. 

 

In the end, I see this addition as something to have something refreshing to do on a Friday night after lots of running around missions later (and yes, I do set myself challenges and pace myself to not get bored of the game, so that I can enjoy playing the game).

 

I'm... I know I'm setting myself up to take a hell of a lot of flack potentially for saying this, but here goes anyways.  CoD multiplayer takes notably more coordination, timing, proper aiming, and tactics than Warframe by a large margin.  Warframe is a game of genocide on a scale only usurped by Dynasty Warriors and its spin-offs.  CoD has got nothing on Warframe in the "kill all the things" realm, I'm not even sure how you can draw that comparison to be honest.

 

Excuse me a moment while I go hit myself with a shovel, what I said was still accurate.  But damn I hated saying it.

>cue generic interlude music<

Aight... im bak naw.

 

Silliness aside, friendly fire as a mechanic isn't something that was designed to be "lol now I can shoot my ally and they go ouch" it's not that type of thing.  It's about punishing poor play.  Even going back to old school days in brawlers, the friendly fire mode was there specifically to force the two players to have to take eachother's actions and positioning into account.

 

Adding more things to a game to help folks keep enjoying it is all well and good.  And DE is doing that by working on Raids, and PvP, I'm incredibly excited for the latter of the two personally.  But even though adding things is good, that doens't automatically just warrant adding anything.  I've still not seen anything that changes my mind on the matter.

 

As an aside, I'm just as against the idea of it being a Friends Only thing as well, due to the more open nature of that matchmaking system it seems like it would bring much more harm than good.  I'd be less oppossed to seeing it as part of Invite Only, as it's less problematic there... yet still pretty problematic.

 

Friendly fire isn't there to allow people to kill their allies, so far every arguement here for the addition of this option boils down to "lemme gun down my buddies for funsies" and that'll be settled with the addition of proper PvP.  Rather than implementing the wrong tool for a job, let's let DE get the right one in place and forget this idea for all eternity.

[Onisa]

You could also invite clan members, which may not necessarily be your friends. 

I was referring to randoms picked up from recruiting.

[Renegade343]

I'm... I know I'm setting myself up to take a hell of a lot of flack potentially for saying this, but here goes anyways.  CoD multiplayer takes notably more coordination, timing, proper aiming, and tactics than Warframe by a large margin.  Warframe is a game of genocide on a scale only usurped by Dynasty Warriors and its spin-offs.  CoD has got nothing on Warframe in the "kill all the things" realm, I'm not even sure how you can draw that comparison to be honest.

Play Conclaves, or Dark Sectors PVP. 

 

That takes quite a bit more aiming, timing and tactics than Call of Duty (and situational awareness, because the Spectres can also flush you out if you are not careful). 

 

And in Call of Duty, you can just spray at a point for a bit to kill someone, and can also shoot through cover for just about every weapon. 

 

Silliness aside, friendly fire as a mechanic isn't something that was designed to be "lol now I can shoot my ally and they go ouch" it's not that type of thing.  It's about punishing poor play.  Even going back to old school days in brawlers, the friendly fire mode was there specifically to force the two players to have to take eachother's actions and positioning into account.

There are many things that are designed for X, but ended up also being useful for Y (or sometimes being even better when used for Y). 

 

For instance, your famous Coca-Cola. Was originally designed and made for medication against headaches, but turned out to be much better as a soft drink, and here it is now, selling billions of that drink to the world. So, although friendly fire might be originally designed to be as such, it also now sees some use in having fun between players every now and then. 

 

Adding more things to a game to help folks keep enjoying it is all well and good.  And DE is doing that by working on Raids, and PvP, I'm incredibly excited for the latter of the two personally.  But even though adding things is good, that doens't automatically just warrant adding anything.  I've still not seen anything that changes my mind on the matter.

But you see, these are all either: 

 

1. Cooperating.

2. Directly against each other. 

 

The suggestion I made is combining a bit of cooperation and competition other than seeing who dealt the most damage etc..

 

As an aside, I'm just as against the idea of it being a Friends Only thing as well, due to the more open nature of that matchmaking system it seems like it would bring much more harm than good.  I'd be less oppossed to seeing it as part of Invite Only, as it's less problematic there... yet still pretty problematic.

Not really though. 

 

Friends Only only allows friends of the player and clan members to join to a player's game (or get invited into one). Invite Only just allows the host to pick random players (and more often used for hosting Void Missions/Derelicts and such, which is also a reason why I am picking "Friends Only"). 

 

Friendly fire isn't there to allow people to kill their allies, so far every arguement here for the addition of this option boils down to "lemme gun down my buddies for funsies" and that'll be settled with the addition of proper PvP.  Rather than implementing the wrong tool for a job, let's let DE get the right one in place and forget this idea for all eternity.

There is one small problem with PVP: 

 

There is no more of being able to overkill another player (since PVP is being balanced with regards to damage as well). There is sometimes cathartic to experience with being able to shoot down a friend with millions of damage. 

 

I was referring to randoms picked up from recruiting.

You should not be able to do that. 

[ThePresident777]

1)  FF would take a lot of skill to use.  So people complaining that Warframe takes no skill should find this rewarding.

 

2)  FF would do away with "press 4 to win" and ability spam that some people have a problem with.

 

3)  Without FF "nerf press 4 to win" and ability spam the useless powers would be useful to those who don't like "press 4 to win" and ability spam.

[Bobtm]

Not gonna quote stuff, quoting here is a pain in the rear but anyways;

 

First off, I'm okay with Friendly Fire existing in Warframe's PvP.  It's the PvE where I see it as being a non-gain.  It's just not a good idea to me at all.  My note of CoD being more tactics focused was clearly and obviously comparing its main game mode "PvP" to Warframe's current main game modes "PvE"  Of course when PvP hits here it'll be awesome, but it barely exists at the moment as little more than an imbalanced mess.

 

Second to note "something chathartic to shooting a friend with millions of damage";  You and I just outright aren't on the same page at all.  I see that as nothing but a gigantic waste of time that's not fun in any concievable way.

 

I suppose that'll be all from me though.  I genuinely see no reason at all for this to be added to Warframe's PvE, that's about the end of things.  In PvP that's another story entirely, but that's a whole nother ball field.

[Onisa]

For instance, your famous Coca-Cola. Was originally designed and made for medication against headaches, but turned out to be much better as a soft drink, and here it is now, selling billions of that drink to the world. So, although friendly fire might be originally designed to be as such, it also now sees some use in having fun between players every now and then.

It's main ingredients back then were also cocaine and cola nut extract. Hence the name. Needless to say the concoction peddled as medicine and the flavored corn syrup of today share little more than carbonated water and a name.

 

You should not be able to do that. 

 

Tenno shouldn't be able to get above the glass ceiling in the relays either.

[Renegade343]

First off, I'm okay with Friendly Fire existing in Warframe's PvP.  It's the PvE where I see it as being a non-gain.  It's just not a good idea to me at all.  My note of CoD being more tactics focused was clearly and obviously comparing its main game mode "PvP" to Warframe's current main game modes "PvE"  Of course when PvP hits here it'll be awesome, but it barely exists at the moment as little more than an imbalanced mess.

That is a bit of a flawed comparison, since PVP fights against players, while PVE fights against AI enemies (i.e.: Different skill brackets needed). 

 

And currently, PVP is a bit more balanced than before (although that unintended balance broke Dark Sectors apart by quite a bit). 

 

It's main ingredients back then were also cocaine and cola nut extract. Hence the name. Needless to say the concoction peddled as medicine and the flavored corn syrup of today share little more than carbonated water and a name.

But it got sold as a soft drink soon after the creation, and that went on to what it is now today. 

 

In short: Not everything designed for X would be actually be used for X. 

 

Tenno shouldn't be able to get above the glass ceiling in the relays either.

That does not mean it should not be fixed. 

[420degreequicksopeswag]

 

 

"Crap, we're suddenly surrounded and in danger, better hit an AoE"

Allies die.

"... oops."

 

 

Good.

 

This will balance the "four to win" mechanic.

 

Playing excalibro will be a little bit more strategic than pressing 4 as it will clear out the tileset, including your teammates. 

 

Therefore, you must decide to use radial javelin only when absolutely necessary.

 

Same thing with other four frames.

 

Fourth abilities will feel more like the ultimate abilities of destruction they set out to be.

[ThePresident777]

There are a lot of valid points being made against friendly fire but they are obvious.  What's being ignored are the possibilities and positive aspects of FF. 

 

FF under the current system would be lulztastic and an outlet for extreme co-op skill.  That has merit, for the people who would enjoy it.  It's potentially another market.  There is no reason for DE to outright ignore that market without careful consideration just like there is no reason for DE to ignore the possibility of a second game without careful consideration.

 

There is also the possibility for FF as it's own set of rules, like PvP is it's own set of rules.  It has many of the features that would solve the issues that some people have with Warframe currently.  It could possibly constitute another viable market.

[Xikiri]

On the flip side of the coin, look at CC abilities, they're just as problematic due to their inherently spammable nature.  Giving players an extreme resistance to these would effectively be just as necessary as the above noted point, but then it has the same issue.  The whole point becomes entirely moot... no real gameplay added to anything.

My only rebuttal is...I'm still trying to figure out who brought abilities in this. 

[Space_Mouse]

Mainly all the trolls.

[DoomFruit]

I suppose that'll be all from me though.  I genuinely see no reason at all for this to be added to Warframe's PvE, that's about the end of things.  In PvP that's another story entirely, but that's a whole nother ball field.

All that needs doing to make it fair is to put 2 options for the host which can only be changed before a mission is selected: weapon friendly fire and ability friendly fire; which default to "off"; and whose results are displayed prominently on the squad screen. Neither option can be enabled for public games. If either option is enabled when joining a friend or clanmate's game (whether dropping in or being invited), you're informed before entering the mission and given an "accept or decline" dialogue box.

 

I would personally enjoy this a great deal. It would make me think a lot more when I do missions.

 

The key thing here is that we're asking for it as an option with bright red warning letters. We absolutely do not want friendly fire to be forced on the game.

[Voporak]

My friend and I have always discussed how annoying it is for someone to walk in front of us while we're firing an Ogris, and we're the ones who get downed, and not the idiot who walked in front. I am all for this, but this definitely should not be able to be applied to abilities; they're just too devastating to allow friendly fire, especially so when modded up. Maybe have a chance for an ability to "accidentally" hit an ally, but aside from that abilities shouldn't belong with the friendly fire category. Having it as an option would definitely be good, because then people who don't want it don't have to touch it, and people who want it can be satisfied.