Actually Impossible To Pay For Mod Upgrading/ducat Items. Deep Explanation Within. Please Support.

[SnakeWildlife]

I understand you not being able to link to a post, but when you say voice chat I can only assume you are referring to a devstream? If it was another player over Voip they didn't say where they heard it? The patch notes clearly are for E gate and the nature of the issue is probably a big reason why they went against their promise not to patch before the next big one . . . which should be epic :)

 

It was voicechat over raidcall. (its like ventrilo/teamspeak/etc)

Sometimes the devs like to stroll around large clan voice servers for feedback. Theyre surprisingly social and awesome. Had to help Glen directly a while back with my friend Bulletslinger on a huge network problem, some brands of routers were basicly fighting each other and Double-KO'ing themselves, preventing connection between a large amount of people. (between Linksys and Netgear)

 

If i dont speak directly and miss something then i normally get poked about it later by a clan-member.

[(PSN)geb9696]

Perhaps a better question would be, if you're an "endgame" player with max MR that spends all your free time outside of work/obligations on Warframe, and it would take you a month to max a mod doing nothing but grinding on all your free time. Is that really the game you want for your veteran players? Endless grinding?

This is the question that needs to be answered. I honestly don't have a problem with mods taking a while to be maxed but I do have a problem with being pigeonholed in to playing only specific missions over and over again in order to be able to have enough cores to make a dent in leveling up the mods being released. I think the EGate issue further highlighted this problem.

[(PSN)geb9696]

For those interested I am posting an update.  Took me 11 hours and 50 minutes to get enough cores running T4 Survival.  It can be done quicker if you only go to 10 minutes at a time.  Here is the breakdown on the cores from each run. 

30 minutes – 15 cores

1 hour – 25 cores

20 minutes – 10 cores

30 minutes – 25 R5 - 1 UC – 1C

35 minutes – 20 R5 - 2 UC -  3C

15 minutes – 15 R5 – 0 UC – 1 C

15 minutes – 10 RC – 1 UC  - 0 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 -  0 UC – 2 C

30 minutes – 25 R5 – 5 UC – 2 C

35 minutes – 25 R5 – 0 UC – 4 C

15 Minutes – 10 R5 -  0 UC – 3 C

35 Minutes – 20 R5 – 1 UC – 8 C

30 minutes – 20 R5 -  0 UC – 1 C

15 minutes – 15 R5 – 1 UC – 0 C

35 minutes – 25 R5 – 3 UC – 0 C

10 minutes  –  5 R5 – 0 UC – 1 C

5 minutes – 0 R5  - 0 Uc – 0C 

15 minute – 5 R5 – UC – 0 C

15 minutes – 10 R5 1 UC -  4 C

15 minutes – 15 R5 1 UC – 3 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 1 UC – 1 C

30 minutes – 25 R5 -  4 UC – 7 C

10 minutes – 5 R5 - - 0 UC – 7 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 0 UC – 1 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 -  1 UC – 1 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 1 UC – 4 C

5 minutes – 5 R5 -  0 Uc 0 1 C

45 minutes – 20 R5 – 5 UC – 8 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 2 UC – 2 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 0 UC – 1 C

20 minutes – 5 R5 – 1 UC – 1 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 1 UC – 3 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 0 UC – 0 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 0 UC – 1 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 1 Uc – 1 C

30 minutes – 15 R5 – 1 UC -  3 C

 

Total  - 484 R5 - 51 UC - 96 C

To go from 0 to 10 on prime mod 484 R5 51 UC 67 C 1,681,950 credits

Edited March 15, 2015 by (PS4)geb9696

[(PSN)Zeylon]

For those interested I am posting an update.  Took me 11 hours and 50 minutes to get enough cores running T4 Survival.  It can be done quicker if you only go to 10 minutes at a time.  Here is the breakdown on the cores from each run. 

30 minutes – 15 cores

1 hour – 25 cores

20 minutes – 10 cores

30 minutes – 25 R5 - 1 UC – 1C

35 minutes – 20 R5 - 2 UC -  3C

15 minutes – 15 R5 – 0 UC – 1 C

15 minutes – 10 RC – 1 UC  - 0 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 -  0 UC – 2 C

30 minutes – 25 R5 – 5 UC – 2 C

35 minutes – 25 R5 – 0 UC – 4 C

15 Minutes – 10 R5 -  0 UC – 3 C

35 Minutes – 20 R5 – 1 UC – 8 C

30 minutes – 20 R5 -  0 UC – 1 C

15 minutes – 15 R5 – 1 UC – 0 C

35 minutes – 25 R5 – 3 UC – 0 C

10 minutes  –  5 R5 – 0 UC – 1 C

5 minutes – 0 R5  - 0 Uc – 0C 

15 minute – 5 R5 – UC – 0 C

15 minutes – 10 R5 1 UC -  4 C

15 minutes – 15 R5 1 UC – 3 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 1 UC – 1 C

30 minutes – 25 R5 -  4 UC – 7 C

10 minutes – 5 R5 - - 0 UC – 7 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 0 UC – 1 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 -  1 UC – 1 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 1 UC – 4 C

5 minutes – 5 R5 -  0 Uc 0 1 C

45 minutes – 20 R5 – 5 UC – 8 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 2 UC – 2 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 0 UC – 1 C

20 minutes – 5 R5 – 1 UC – 1 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 1 UC – 3 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 0 UC – 0 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 0 UC – 1 C

10 minutes – 10 R5 – 1 Uc – 1 C

30 minutes – 15 R5 – 1 UC -  3 C

 

Total  - 484 R5 - 51 UC - 96 C

To go from 0 to 10 on prime mod 484 R5 51 UC 67 C 1,681,950 credits

 

It doesn't matter now I guess, because the void was nerfed and PS4 has the same issue now.  In any event, it was for a fraction of the playerbase that actually had reams of T4 keys.  I ran into a guy on Reddit's Warframe sub that said he had over 400 or some such that he stocked before the syndicate key nerf?  I have 2 (as a vet with maxed syndicates, no less).  I'm not sure how I feel about the ground being "equalized", since I was definitely a "have-not" and destined to be a crappier farmer than anyone that had hundreds of T4s considering how long it might take me to get them. 

 

It's not like I'll be farming fast now either though.

[Sifu]

It doesn't matter now I guess, because the void was nerfed and PS4 has the same issue now.  In any event, it was for a fraction of the playerbase that actually had reams of T4 keys.  I ran into a guy on Reddit's Warframe sub that said he had over 400 or some such that he stocked before the syndicate key nerf?  I have 2 (as a vet with maxed syndicates, no less).  I'm not sure how I feel about the ground being "equalized", since I was definitely a "have-not" and destined to be a crappier farmer than anyone that had hundreds of T4s considering how long it might take me to get them. 

 

It's not like I'll be farming fast now either though.

 

There is farm and there is FARM!!!1 This guys does neither, they abuse mistakes and making a huge reserves of things that should be unique in first place. But that another story with DE and market and korean farmers begging for a trade system.

[Kasarian]

For those interested... -snip-

 

Let me start with one thing: Running T4 Survival for less than 20 minutes is a waste of a key.

 

Now about the numbers you're presenting. Not only to me you're wasting T4 Keys but with how nonchalantly you approach the matter of just using 36 T4 Survival Keys which are rare and you need to grind for AND you don't have 100% chance to get on each run tells me you've stocked on them pretty well (key/synd rep system abuse). By pretty well I mean 300+.

 

"It can be done Quicker" - Yes it can, by staying just first ten minutes you can skip rotation B and C by running new key with AA again but at the same time it is highly key inefficient (30minutes should last each run) seeing as they aren't as easy to come by.

[SnakeWildlife]

So their solution was to nerf credits across all player-owned nodes , increase credit costs of Ducats, and make sure you have to spend even more credits buying multiple-weapon-cost blueprints.

 

...instead of increase credit gain across the board to make things more possible and realistic.

 

Have DE completely gone mad since Egate happened? The economy is in tatters.

Edited March 20, 2015 by SnakeWildlife

[Gemini_Jenvas]

you dont understand, the grind is necessary.

What else would we do if not grind resources, credits or just rng?

[Ryjeon]

I think the credit costs are pretty outrageous and push more and more people into feeling like they have to find repetitive unfun shortcuts to make up the difference and actually afford the millions of credits it takes to finish one of these mods. It just promotes rushing, overgearing for bosses, leaving defenses at wave 5, and all the things that people do to trivialize the games content. The core gameplay really needs to made more rewarding.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Ryjeon

[SoyMalone]

So their solution was to nerf credits across all player-owned nodes , increase credit costs of Ducats, and make sure you have to spend even more credits buying multiple-weapon-cost blueprints.

 

...instead of increase credit gain across the board to make things more possible and realistic.

 

Have DE completely gone mad since Egate happened? The economy is in tatters.

Are you referring to an earlier credit nerf?

 

What has changed since E-Gate to negatively impact the economy in your view? Also I don't know why you think they've "increase(d) the credit cost of ducats" the items have kept a steady pricing structure since their introduction. 

 

The one thing I did notice was:

 

• Treasury Ship Alerts will now appear on the Star Chart!  These Missions offer greater Credit rewards at a higher level of difficulty than normal Missions.  

That is a positive thing that provides another source of credits (though as of yet we don't know how much) so I don't know what would lead you to think DE have "Gone mad" by any stretch, but am interested to know.

[ZansiBlackthorn]

I'm also a Master 19 who has been playing Warframe practically non-stop for the past few years. I don't usually like to complain about stuff but the OP makes many good points. I've reached a point in playing Warframe where when I get a new rank ten mod I don't ever expect it to be fully leveled up simply because of the massive investment they take and I pass up some of the ducat based prime mods because it's just not worth the time I would have to spend grinding to get enough prime parts to afford it. PLUS now with Frost going the way of Excalibro we now have the threat of any prime part going into the vault I don't want to sell off any of my older prime parts for ducats making any runs in which those are acquired feel like a disappointment. I can't say I've ever had much of an issue with credits but that's cause I don't spend them all getting my mods all the way to rank ten or trading. Trading though, that's something that has to change as well, 1 million credits for a prime part is super excessive, as is the cost per platinum in a trade. Yeah long time players will have made a lot of bank, but they can blow through it in next to no time if they want. There's something innately wrong in thinking 'because the players have too much of this particular thing we should make everything cost loads of it.' And for the love of god can we stop having new weapons AND FRAMES made from old weapons. Not everyone is gonna have the inventory space to craft a second version of things just to get a new weapon. Cause I'm certainly not gonna put my level 30 gun into the foundry and turn it into something new that might just be a total POS.

 

Well I got a little carried away with that, guess I've had a few of those things on my mind for a while... but seriously, good points in this thread, please do something about this outrageous economy. I want to enjoy this game, not come to loathe it.

[LeucienWeaver]

 

Are you referring to an earlier credit nerf?

 

What has changed since E-Gate to negatively impact the economy in your view? Also I don't know why you think they've "increase(d) the credit cost of ducats" the items have kept a steady pricing structure since their introduction. 

 

 

For starters, having a 100k investment on something that can and will FAIL if one person screws up. For a followup, 500k investment to attach a reward. Oh. And the fact that almost all the future weaponry will require dual weapons, in this case needing dual cleavers, furax, and Tellurium.

 

It's un-fun watching the power creep move even slower than the money-creep.

[Siubijeni]

Thank you for this comprehensive post, maybe DE will finally understand and do something about their horrid economy. It's one of many things that needs fixing, but this would go a long way to making the game really playable.

 

EDIT: Sometimes, I really hate their decisions. Wtf are they thinking? Are they even thinking? Doubtful. This whole farce with how terribly underwhelming the arcane enhancements are, particularly with how hard the raid is... really ought to be a wake-up slap in DE's face--they haven't made smart decisions in the past, and they're still not.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Siubijeni

[jjpdn]

That's your endgame.

 

Endless farming.

 

Though, I'm not exactly sure why you would try to the prime mods out. I'm 2/3rd of the way and I'm utterly happy with it.

Edited March 21, 2015 by jjpdn

[(PSN)geb9696]

There is farm and there is FARM!!!1 This guys does neither, they abuse mistakes and making a huge reserves of things that should be unique in first place. But that another story with DE and market and korean farmers begging for a trade system.

What?

[2Peter3Nine]

I've said it before, and i'll say it again.

 

Games need MORE FUN, and LESS FARM!

[Lichcontract]

Lol the credit nerfs to dark sectors, as if I was rich anyway. This just made the game a hell of a lot more boring and I don't even think I can be bothered to grind out the amount I need for Baro this week. Well @(*()$ played DE, well @(*()$ played.

[Kasseopea]

Just out of interest - was there even a DE answer here? I dont have the desire to watch through 35 pages. I bet though they are too cowardly and too greedy to post anything here.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Kasseopea

[SoyMalone]

 

 

 

For starters, having a 100k investment on something that can and will FAIL if one person screws up. For a followup, 500k investment to attach a reward. Oh. And the fact that almost all the future weaponry will require dual weapons, in this case needing dual cleavers, furax, and Tellurium.

 

It's un-fun watching the power creep move even slower than the money-creep.

 

The 100k investment is for the BP, not the key you actually use to do the raid. They key itself costs 5k and some resources, the biggest investment there is the 5 hours it takes to build. The raids are new, and if you've played any mmo you'll know the cycle that happens there regarding player competence. 

We have had some 'composite' weapons recently, but that doesn't indicate any sort of frequency of future weapons being the same other than that they will likely happen. You don't need all the weapons, hell you can wait a week and the whole community passes judgement on a piece of gear to see if it is worth making that investment. To be honest if your outlook on the game is that you want more content but you want access to all of it right away/easily (or it will be considered too hard/grindy) then perhaps a break from the game might help. When I see new content I see a challenge to overcome, not something else I have to do or I'm going to miss out. 

 

With regards to power creep - yes, its a thing. Its a thing in every persistent online game out there that has anything close to what Warframe has. Successful games in this regard normally do have power creep to one degree or another. If they don't, players don't get new things that make them more powerful and that tends to result in boredom. It makes new content relevant.

 

With no power creep you can only make so many enemies before they all start looking the same. You could make more powerful enemies, but then you need to start making more powerful gear to combat them. It is a balancing act that always leaves people decrying it despite it being the main thing many people keep coming back for. 

 

As for the last three posts - insulting DE and accusing them of being greedy/cowards: please be constructive.

 

It is easy to complain, why not propose a solution to something rather than venting about it on the internet?

Edited March 21, 2015 by SoyMalone

[Kasseopea]

As for the last three posts - insulting DE and accusing them of being greedy/cowards: please be constructive.

 

It is easy to complain, why not propose a solution to something rather than venting about it on the internet?

 

Well...yes, it IS easy to insult them, because they are doing all those changes to get more money and don't state any other reason. They are not even giving half-assed excuses. You know, kind of like "We felt that Dark Sector was the only goal for players, so we regulated the cred reward to make other sectors as lucrative". Nope, they just press on reducing the amount of creds we can farm per hour and bring in more and more and more expensive stuff like weapons needing other weapons and the new void trader.

[SoyMalone]

Well...yes, it IS easy to insult them, because they are doing all those changes to get more money and don't state any other reason. They are not even giving half-assed excuses. You know, kind of like "We felt that Dark Sector was the only goal for players, so we regulated the cred reward to make other sectors as lucrative". Nope, they just press on reducing the amount of creds we can farm per hour and bring in more and more and more expensive stuff like weapons needing other weapons and the new void trader.

When they give reasons that you think are insufficient why do you think insulting them is an acceptable response? 

As of right now they haven't actually posted a reason/explanation for the dark sector changes. 

 

If they did say something to the effect of your example, do you disagree with them wanting to make other missions more valuable?Or is it just the way in which they have gone about it?

 

There will always be new things, expensive things and time limited things. Apart from the time limited content you can do any and all of it at your own pace. We've discussed people's desire to fully 'keep up' with content releases, but I have yet to see a good reason why all people should be able to max all content by the time more is released. 

 

It is good for the game to always have something to play for, it keeps people playing in the long run. If content release drastically outstrips the average player's ability to achieve it then I could see that as being a problem, for sure. However most people just have issue with high end costs for entirely optional end game items like primed mods (or any void trader item for that matter.) 

[SnakeWildlife]

Just out of interest - was there even a DE answer here? I dont have the desire to watch through 35 pages. I bet though they are too cowardly and too greedy to post anything here.

 

No dev response, just ignorance and changes to the game going in the complete opposite direction. 500k to apply an arcane attachment now aswell? Pfff...because everybody has infinite credits right? -.-

 

Iv already mostly quit.  This update has killed the game for me.

[OneMember]

This just makes people wait for new loot cave bug and use them to farm as there just ain't any other way atm...

[Xiankua]

You don't need to have all modes maxed to 10.

You don't need to buy every stuff Baro'Ki'Teer comes with.

You don't need to be best of the best, just because you are MR-19 nolifer.

You are playing this game for too long, and you can't realise such simple things? "Tainted and ruined beyond salvation."

Your desires to have everything is your fault, not DE's one. Stop being that childish.

"I'm powerful mr-19 pro, and I need to have it all." Why? "Because it exists!"

If I'll place a mountain near your city, you are going to climb it, just because it exists, right? This is what your "logic" tells.

That's only your fault. Stop talking this "Year of quality."

You are only hurting yourself, Tenno.

 

If there is no 'need' for mods at rank 10 then it should be removed. Don't dismiss achievement for enjoyment or the sake of itself because you don't understand it. "Because I can" is, at it's core, the only reason people climb mountains or paint masterpieces. With the way things currently are the game is currently very defeatist, which is not at all a fun experience. And I am someone with a "real life" and I don't need everything in the game, or even the best things. But would you really deny me even something, just one thing as an achievement just because I have real life responsibilities? I think I'd rather leave, and play a game that allows me to have fun and achieve things within it. I may take my money elsewhere, depending on what happens in the coming days.

[Katinka]

The opening premiss of this thread was that there would be two Primed mods every fortnight and it would be impossible for a player to keep up with the required amount of farming to buy and rank each of these new mods.  Setting aside the fact that you don't have to get everything and accepting that some people want to, we haven't had a new Primed mod since Reach and Pistol Mutation on 6th-8th February.  I feel that the original argument needs to be revisted now that we have gone 6 weeks with out a new Primed mod and now have evidence that if you miss out on purchasing a Primed mod it will be possible to pick it up later.