Synoid Gammacor Does Not Need Changes, It Is Already Balanced

[seth]

Today I tested Syn Gammacor in T3 and T4 survival and it works like any other weapon, on 40 min+ it starts to be ineffective.

[HibikiGanaha]

Which gun would you use?

 

People who refuse to acknowledge the range as a huge weakness get a Synoid Gammacor.

 

[Faulcun]

There's nothing wrong with people picking a best weapon. That will always happen, you are right.

 

The problem here is that the best weapon is head and shoulders above everything else and affords you a degree of power nothing else can. We can't stop people from picking a best weapon, but we can make that best weapon not so overwhelmingly powerful. 

 

You are completely failing to provide a valid argument against mine.

 

The problem here is that the best weapon is head and shoulders above everything else and affords you a degree of power nothing else can.

 

That is only seen at a level that 90% of the playerbase cannot reach or survive at. However, at the MINIMUM dps requirement for the level enemy most people are fighting, you are wrong. MOST weapons in this game can provide the appropriate power, and match the gammacor turn for turn.

 

We can't stop people from picking a best weapon, but we can make that best weapon not so overwhelmingly powerful.

 

Nerfing a weapon with the intent to stop people from choosing it so often is not a good reason, and also it is morally wrong. Come up with a better excuse.

[NocturneOfSolace]

The synoid Gammacor the highest DPS pistol in the game, can be traded, and can be gotten relatively easily from the syndicates. Yes, it is broken.

I wouldn't even expect a Clantech weapon with a mastery lock of 10 to be as powerful as the Synoid Gammacor!

No...just...no

Don't even talk

Do you have any idea how long it took me to get my Synoid?

 

You are completely failing to provide a valid argument against mine.

That's vaughn's middle name, invalid arguments r us

Edited March 11, 2015 by NocturneOfSolace

[vaugahn]

You are completely failing to provide a valid argument against mine.

 

That is only seen at a level that 90% of the playerbase cannot reach or survive at. However, at the MINIMUM dps requirement for the level enemy most people are fighting, you are wrong. MOST weapons in this game can provide the appropriate power, and match the gammacor turn for turn.

 

Nerfing a weapon with the intent to stop people from choosing it so often is not a good reason, and also it is morally wrong. Come up with a better excuse.

 

Uhh...you're getting a little crazy there with the whole morally wrong thing.

 

Basically, it's like this: weapons in this game are a pyramid. There are lots of weapons at the bottom, and only a few at the top. As you pointed out, people will always use those top weapons. However, we can reduce the overall "height" of the pyramid by toning down those peak weapons, to make it into more of a ziggurat. There's nothing moral or otherwise about nerfing something, it's just a tool to achieve balance.

 

As for the other bit. Just because a weapon can reach the minimum DPS required for normal content doesn't make it competitive with high DPS weapons. Nobody would chose a Spectra over a Synoid Gammacor, ever, for any content.

[NocturneOfSolace]

Uhh...you're getting a little crazy there with the whole morally wrong thing.

 

Basically, it's like this: weapons in this game are a pyramid. There are lots of weapons at the bottom, and only a few at the top. As you pointed out, people will always use those top weapons. However, we can reduce the overall "height" of the pyramid by toning down those peak weapons, to make it into more of a ziggurat. There's nothing moral or otherwise about nerfing something, it's just a tool to achieve balance.

 

As for the other bit. Just because a weapon can reach the minimum DPS required for normal content doesn't make it competitive with high DPS weapons. Nobody would chose a Spectra over a Synoid Gammacor, ever, for any content.

Comparing a super weak secondary to a Synoid is an extremely unfair comparison

[vaugahn]

Comparing a super weak secondary to a Synoid is an extremely unfair comparison

 

Is it?

 

The Spectra is clantech. It requires a decent amount of effort to get. It's also got a range 10 meters shorter than the Gammacor, and given that people like to claim the range is the Gammacor's balance factor, shouldn't that mean it needs to be more powerful than the Gammacor?

[NocturneOfSolace]

Is it?

 

The Spectra is clantech. It requires a decent amount of effort to get. It's also got a range 10 meters shorter than the Gammacor, and given that people like to claim the range is the Gammacor's balance factor, shouldn't that mean it needs to be more powerful than the Gammacor?

It is, because no one would ever use a spectra anyways, because it's a bad weapon compared to many many other weapons besides the Synoid, can you try and come up with a compelling argument?

The Gammacor is a touch bit overpowered, but not because of it's DPS(there are secondaries that outperform it's dps), if they were to make it less insanely ammo efficient, it would be balanced(as it is right now, you never run out of ammo on it)

Edited March 11, 2015 by NocturneOfSolace

[vaugahn]

It is, because no one would ever use a spectra anyways, because it's a bad weapon compared to many many other weapons besides the Synoid, can you try and come up with a compelling argument?

The Gammacor is a touch bit overpowered, but not because of it's DPS(there are secondaries that outperform it's dps), if they were to make it less insanely ammo efficient, it would be balanced(as it is right now, you never run out of ammo on it)

 

Well yeah, that's one way to nerf it. My personal suggestion would be to drop the range, but that works too.

 

The Spectra is in need of a pretty sizable buff. The arguments rolled out in favor of the Synoid Gammacor ignore the fact that the SG's range is long for beam weapons.

[Reaver_X]

Well yeah, that's one way to nerf it. My personal suggestion would be to drop the range, but that works too.

 

The Spectra is in need of a pretty sizable buff. The arguments rolled out in favor of the Synoid Gammacor ignore the fact that the SG's range is long for beam weapons.

 

you could nerf its range, but at the same time, you gotta have the range be reasonable, otherwise the gun will suffer from fancy-melee-weapon syndrome.

[HibikiGanaha]

Is it?

 

The Spectra is clantech. It requires a decent amount of effort to get. It's also got a range 10 meters shorter than the Gammacor, and given that people like to claim the range is the Gammacor's balance factor, shouldn't that mean it needs to be more powerful than the Gammacor?

3 fieldron and a forma.  Breaking the bank with those materials needed.

 

You're grasping at straws here, you have no argument other than one outdated gun that got a syndicate mod for +20 range.

[Faulcun]

Uhh...you're getting a little crazy there with the whole morally wrong thing.

Basically, it's like this: weapons in this game are a pyramid. There are lots of weapons at the bottom, and only a few at the top. As you pointed out, people will always use those top weapons. However, we can reduce the overall "height" of the pyramid by toning down those peak weapons, to make it into more of a ziggurat. There's nothing moral or otherwise about nerfing something, it's just a tool to achieve balance.

As for the other bit. Just because a weapon can reach the minimum DPS required for normal content doesn't make it competitive with high DPS weapons. Nobody would chose a Spectra over a Synoid Gammacor, ever, for any content.

I'm not going crazy. Your basis for this is to stop scrubs from finding the gammacor so appealing. Basically, you don't like the choices others make, so you want a nerf that effectively reduces their choices down to something you see as reasonable. This is wrong.

As far as balance is concerned, you are here complaining about ONE weapon.... When you should be naming every weapon in the game, looking at mastery requirement, and ease of aquirement.

Your comment about the spectra is false. The majority of weapons can be perfectly competitive with high dps weapons because 1000000 damage or 1000 damage makes no difference if the enemy dies in one hit.

If anybody is reading this, and still can't comprehend this concept, it is very likely you have an obscene amount to learn about this game still.

If I suggested we go play on apollodorus for 30 min, do you really think it's going to matter what weapons I bring compared to a gammacor? The answer is no, because whatever I bring will perform just as well as a gammacor. The same goes for any other mission.

[Meice]

All I'm seeing is blablabla*de don't nerf my fav gun*

blablabla. Its seriously funny how people try to defend it even thought its clearly OP.

[vaugahn]

I'm not going crazy. Your basis for this is to stop scrubs from finding the gammacor so appealing. Basically, you don't like the choices others make, so you want a nerf that effectively reduces their choices down to something you see as reasonable. This is wrong.

As far as balance is concerned, you are here complaining about ONE weapon.... When you should be naming every weapon in the game, looking at mastery requirement, and ease of aquirement.

Your comment about the spectra is false. The majority of weapons can be perfectly competitive with high dps weapons because 1000000 damage or 1000 damage makes no difference if the enemy dies in one hit.

If anybody is reading this, and still can't comprehend this concept, it is very likely you have an obscene amount to learn about this game still.

If I suggested we go play on apollodorus for 30 min, do you really think it's going to matter what weapons I bring compared to a gammacor? The answer is no, because whatever I bring will perform just as well as a gammacor. The same goes for any other mission.

 

In the interest of staying on topic, this discussion is only about the Synoid Gammacor. Don't bother with that "oh well what about these other guns" thing. 

 

And yes, calling that morally wrong is crazy. 

 

Minimum DPS is meaningless. The fact that you're trying to use that as an argument is ridiculous. Any weapon can meet the minimum DPS required to kill an enemy, the problem is when weapons consistently overperform. Or are you actually claiming that a MK-1 Braton is just as useful as a Synoid Gammacor because they both are able to kill enemies? If we used two different weapons on Appolodorus, the Gammacor would be instakilling enemies long after every other weapon fell off, and that's the problem here. No other weapon has allowed players to trivialize content to that degree, save for maybe the pre-nerf Acrid.

 

3 fieldron and a forma.  Breaking the bank with those materials needed.

 

You're grasping at straws here, you have no argument other than one outdated gun that got a syndicate mod for +20 range.

 

You like to parade around the range limit as a balance mechanism. According to you, less range equals more damage allowed. I'm interested to hear you justify the Gammacor being the longest-ranged beam weapon.

[Faulcun]

In the interest of staying on topic, this discussion is only about the Synoid Gammacor. Don't bother with that "oh well what about these other guns" thing. 

 

And yes, calling that morally wrong is crazy. 

 

Minimum DPS is meaningless. The fact that you're trying to use that as an argument is ridiculous. Any weapon can meet the minimum DPS required to kill an enemy, the problem is when weapons consistently overperform. Or are you actually claiming that a MK-1 Braton is just as useful as a Synoid Gammacor because they both are able to kill enemies? If we used two different weapons on Appolodorus, the Gammacor would be instakilling enemies long after every other weapon fell off, and that's the problem here. No other weapon has allowed players to trivialize content to that degree, save for maybe the pre-nerf Acrid.

 

 

Yes, im willing to bet my Mk-1 braton will match, or out perform your gammacor  at 30 min on apollodorus.

 

Your whole argument is ridiculous. How can players be trivializing content if they cant even reach the point that the difference in weapons can even be seen?

 

Thumbs up if anybody wants to see that challenge happen!

Edited March 11, 2015 by Faulcun

[vaugahn]

Yes, im willing to bet my Mk-1 braton will match, or out perform your gammacor  at 30 min on apollodorus.

 

Your whole argument is ridiculous. How can players be trivializing content if they cant even reach the point that the difference in weapons can even be seen?

 

Thumbs up if anybody wants to see that challenge happen!

 

The fact that you're even willing to propose that shows how fully you've bought in to your own rhetoric.

[Faulcun]

The fact that you're even willing to propose that shows how fully you've bought in to your own rhetoric.

 

Or I know what im talking about, and you have a lot to learn.

 

If its no challenge, it should be an easy win for your argument.

 

Edit: I want to point out that I have ~1550 hours in this game. You have ~450 hrs. Im not saying im right or wrong, but you need to take in to consideration that im not talking out of my &#!.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Faulcun

[HibikiGanaha]

You like to parade around the range limit as a balance mechanism. According to you, less range equals more damage allowed. I'm interested to hear you justify the Gammacor being the longest-ranged beam weapon.

The Quanta has the longest range for a continuous beam weapon at 50m.

 

I think you missed my post where I underlined and bolded how the gammacor does zero damage outside of 25m.  This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

 

None of the weapons you've been comparing to the Gammacor are able to compete with the Quanta.  If you disagree, provide the list of guns that you think are better than the quanta and we'll continue from there.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Or I know what im talking about, and you have a lot to learn.

 

If its no challenge, it should be an easy win for your argument.

 

Edit: I want to point out that I have ~1550 hours in this game. You have ~450 hrs. Im not saying im right or wrong, but you need to take in to consideration that im not talking out of my !.

 

And in all that time, you haven't learned the secret to not being an elitist jerkface. Congratulations. I see that time was well spent.

[vaugahn]

Or I know what im talking about, and you have a lot to learn.

 

If its no challenge, it should be an easy win for your argument.

 

Edit: I want to point out that I have ~1550 hours in this game. You have ~450 hrs. Im not saying im right or wrong, but you need to take in to consideration that im not talking out of my !.

 

"I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm saying I'm right"

 

I've been playing since update 5. Just by the way.

 

The Quanta has the longest range for a continuous beam weapon at 50m.

 

I think you missed my post where I underlined and bolded how the gammacor does zero damage outside of 25m.  This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

 

None of the weapons you've been comparing to the Gammacor are able to compete with the Quanta.  If you disagree, provide the list of guns that you think are better than the quanta and we'll continue from there.

 

How about we start with the Synoid Gammacor, which is miles better than the Quanta. If you honestly think the SG is in any reasonably balanced state right now, you're either selfish or deluded.

[HibikiGanaha]

How about we start with the Synoid Gammacor, which is miles better than the Quanta. If you honestly think the SG is in any reasonably balanced state right now, you're either selfish or deluded.

I'm looking for guns that aren't the gammacor that are better than the quanta.  You have stated that there are none.  Gammcor is not "miles" ahead of the quanta.  Whatever the dps of the quanta is, double it since you are shooting from twice as far away.  Then add in how you are shooting from safety and the massive aoe damage it has on the alternate fire.  Quanta is overall a better gun than the gammacor.

 

So why were you comparing the spectra to the gammacor?  Shouldn't you be comparing it to the next best thing?  Obviously yes and you are just trolling with this spectra nonsense.  The first post you made was an attempt to discredit me asking if I knew what 25m was in game.  Now you are name calling, with no backing, to try to start a flamewar to get the topic shutdown?

 

Please, I've had enough of your posts.

[Vaskadar]

I see your red herring and raise you a bucket.

[Faulcun]

And in all that time, you haven't learned the secret to not being an elitist jerkface. Congratulations. I see that time was well spent.

 

"I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm saying I'm right"

 

I've been playing since update 5. Just by the way.

 

 

 

Call it what you want. Simple logic isnt getting through, so im resorting to a real world display of the effectiveness of both guns. Even if he doesnt accept my challenge, im still going to prove it in game.

 

Since he thinks purely bringing it into the game means insta-win, I did a bit of a test tonight. I went 20 min on a T4 survival with a Mk-1 braton. Potato only, rank 24, 3 mods. Started falling off around 17 min. Im pretty sure I can make this 40 min worthy, which is far longer than most players can even go without some kind of camping strategy.

 

His logic suggests there is no way a MK-1 braton can compete with a gammacor. I will prove that false.

[Magneu]

Comparing a super weak secondary to a Synoid is an extremely unfair comparison

When the Synoid has a 55% higher sustained DPS than the frickin Boltor Prime, that's a fair comparison that shows a glaring issue. And that's with max fire rate/Heavy Cal on the Boltor Prime.

 

And for the people saying range is a balancing mechanic, where's the love for the Synapse? The Spectra? The Fluc Rifle? The Phage/Amprex (both are in a good place though). If the Synoid had 15 meters of range, that would be balanced. Top of it's class and 2nd compared to all beam weapons is NOT balanced.

[Magneu]

Call it what you want. Simple logic isnt getting through, so im resorting to a real world display of the effectiveness of both guns. Even if he doesnt accept my challenge, im still going to prove it in game.

 

Since he thinks purely bringing it into the game means insta-win, I did a bit of a test tonight. I went 20 min on a T4 survival with a Mk-1 braton. Potato only, rank 24, 3 mods. Started falling off around 17 min. Im pretty sure I can make this 40 min worthy, which is far longer than most players can even go without some kind of camping strategy.

 

His logic suggests there is no way a MK-1 braton can compete with a gammacor. I will prove that false.

Look at max damage builds for both Mk-1 Braton and Synoid. Which one is going to be more effective against a level 40 Elite Lancer? And that's just starchart levels. Yes, Mk-1 Braton can work well enough to decent levels with enough love. But with the same amount of love, the Synoid will be effective FAR longer. The only thing that can hope to compare is the FOTM weapon (Boltor/Soma Prime) or bows (hidden gems there). And even then, the Synoid's raw DPS is leagues ahead, not to mention anything about ease of use/ammo efficiency.