Handspring Shouldn't Be A Mod

[Milliea]

Seeing a lot who thinks it should not be a mod but and ability. 

I kinda disagree, it should be an ability mod instead of what it is now. and force warframes to only be able to bring 4 abilities so you could choose to sacrifice an ability for this one maybe even letting handspring take over the spot on the 1-4 for the ability that you didn´t bring. 

I agree as it is now it´s underwhelming, but I also feel like making it a QTE or button pressing would just be too good and somewhat remove the point of enemies even have knockdown attacks. 

[SoulEchelon]

It seems that you're right; I just looked it up on youtube: 

 

I'm not terribly impressed with the animation, though. It's not really a handspring like the mod's picture would imply - more along the lines of a slightly modified recovery animation that already exists.

 

Wait wtf? The animation on the card looks MUCH different than that...

 

And I totally agree with this thread. I remember about two months or so ago I posted in a thread suggesting a certain skill-based way of recovering from being knocked down. Pressing a particular button at the right moment while draining a certain amount of stamina.

 

I think this is finally the first time I've ever been at a direct disagreement with DE. Making this ability a rare mod was a bad idea...and, judging by that vid, not even worth it.

 

 

Seeing a lot who thinks it should not be a mod but and ability. 

I kinda disagree, it should be an ability mod instead of what it is now. and force warframes to only be able to bring 4 abilities so you could choose to sacrifice an ability for this one maybe even letting handspring take over the spot on the 1-4 for the ability that you didn´t bring. 

I agree as it is now it´s underwhelming, but I also feel like making it a QTE or button pressing would just be too good and somewhat remove the point of enemies even have knockdown attacks. 

 

That's where high stamina usage comes in. Mixing all your jumping and dodging and running and so on makes it so that if you don't have a high amount of stamina, you could easily fail the recovery. And by high stamina usage, I mean maybe 50 or even more stamina. Would definitely balance it.

Edited May 7, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[Milliea]

 

 

That's where high stamina usage comes in. Mixing all your jumping and dodging and running and so on makes it so that if you don't have a high amount of stamina, you could easily fail the recovery. And by high stamina usage, I mean maybe 50 or even more stamina. Would definitely balance it.

could work maybe, then I just fear the stamina recharge mod would be too good as it is right now. 

hard to run out of stamina with that even when trying a single slide and you´re at full again.

there is a need for some changes with this mod but not sure that just giving it as a button push even with a high stamina cost would fix it, especially because melee attacks use up stamina too, and really fast with some weapons. and normally I only get knocked down when I melee or in corpus defense :P 

[Jaon]

maybe all the agile frames with 10 armour???

I think Rhino and Frost could go without. 

[Ferriwind]

Should be a mastery skill that you need to equip. So people who get knockdowned can use it and people who don't can get a better skill. :D

The more different customizations, the more valuable my unique warframe will be to me.

[Coratha]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing a little of both.

 

1). A mechanic whereby you can do something like press space to expend stamina and ninja-flip your way out of a knockdown.

 

2). Also have the handspring mod as a backup to help you even if you run out of stamina from repeated knockdowns.

[Beelzebubbles]

Should be a mastery skill that you need to equip. So people who get knockdowned can use it and people who don't can get a better skill. :D

The more different customizations, the more valuable my unique warframe will be to me.

 

There you go--right now there's very little incentive to increase your mastery rank.  There should be special moves, or improvements to your character's parkour skills as you level up.  In the beginning, you can't do a kick up, but like after rank 5 or something, you can.  Even so, it takes stamina to perform the move and some button combination to do it.

 

This should extend to other forms of movement that could be added to the game. 

[MoonicusMaximus]

I was under the impression that Handspring was just the first of many new mods that provide Tenno with something more than stat increases. Like mods that add new movement abilities, like maybe double-jumps, damage upon sliding into an enemy, or more damaging/stunning flying kicks.

 

It would increase the diversity of Warframe mods and give people something to consider; do I want higher shields or faster stun recovery? What if I'm fairly good at dodging and dealing with stun mechanics, but I have a problem with dieing to regular attacks... I'd rather have shields in that case.

 

This was how I took the mod's introduction, anyway. If the mod gave people the ability to press jump and expend stamina to recover from knockdowns quicker, that would be great, too.

Edited May 7, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus

[Tetsmeha]

Cool can they convert jump, walk, sprint, and shoot to a mod?

Actually I retract my statement I thought it was an actual recover action not an animation speed up. Fury is an animation speed up so handspring is justified as a mod

[Carcharias]

Most of the time I'm all about "this is a great game" " games are not free" "if you like it show some luv (with cash)" , most of the time.

This time I gotta agree with the players, sorry devs, still luv ya, luvin the game, but this was a bad call. Especially with the addition of the grineer rollers a recovery move should be part of the suit / ninja natural ability. Make it cost some stamina and give it to us. If knockdowns were going to be in the gameplay we should have had a recovery from the beginning. Making it a mod is remarkably lame.

[Ronyn]

It shouldnt be a mod. It should be standard

[LoRDxDeMoN]

People wanted an anti-CC mod, DE made an anti-CC mod. People wanted a black color palette, DE made a black color palette. People wanted a cool event reward, DE made a Frost Prime. Heh.

[Motox831]

eh deleting this post didn't really explain my self well. 

 

I agree they need to come up with a way for better hit recovery then adding a mod. 

Edited May 7, 2013 by Motox831

[MJ12]

People wanted an anti-CC mod, DE made an anti-CC mod. People wanted a black color palette, DE made a black color palette. People wanted a cool event reward, DE made a Frost Prime. Heh.

 

No, some people wanted an anti-CC mod. Other people wanted an innate ability to not take 5 seconds to get up, because honestly unless your "anti-CC" mod maxes out at "complete immunity to stagger and knockdown" there's so many other things that mods can enhance and if you have to choose between "less frustration" and "higher stats" that's not a really good choice.

[MoonicusMaximus]

... if you have to choose between "less frustration" and "higher stats" that's not a really good choice.

 

Why is it not a good choice?

 

If I personally do not have a problem with stuns, but would like a stat increase, I should have the option to do either one or both if I so choose.

[MJ12]

Why is it not a good choice?

 

If I personally do not have a problem with stuns, but would like a stat increase, I should have the option to do either one or both if I so choose.

 

Because it's a choice between "not being frustrated" and "having power curve". It's basically confusing the ability to tolerate frustration with "skill", which is something else entirely. See, the choice between survivability and ability use or mobility is a good one because avoiding damage is player skill. "Not being frustrated" is not player skill, it's just frustration tolerance. I can avoid stunlock/knockdown most of the time but I loathe the very concept so I get punished because I prefer playing the game instead of watching my character get up at the speed of my grandma.

 

"But you can avoid stunlocks and knockdowns" you say. Chain knockdowns are also relatively rare. So the choice is between "not being frustrated in rare situations" and "being stronger in all situations". Do you not see how this is a terrible choice which is de facto punishing people who don't like fake difficulty and loss of agency by going "Hahahaha you losers. Because you don't like stunlock you're weaker."

 

It's a terrible choice which doesn't provide anything to the game and punishes the people who actually wanted

 

It'd be like if you had to choose between wallrunning (this is in a hypothetical alternate Warframe where wallrunning is completely unnecessary for completing levels) and Redirection/Vitality. It's a terrible choice that not only marginalizes the mechanic but forces people to choose between being cool/not being frustrated and the ease of which they negotiate tougher content.

 

This is doubly insulting because Handspring is a rare mod and thus even if you really want it it takes approximately ages or blowing several bucks worth of real cash to get one.

[I00thlurker]

It'd be like if you had to choose between wallrunning (this is in a hypothetical alternate Warframe where wallrunning is completely unnecessary for completing levels) and Redirection/Vitality. It's a terrible choice that not only marginalizes the mechanic but forces people to choose between being cool/not being frustrated and the ease of which they negotiate tougher content.

 

You already see this with Super Jump for Excaliber. It's pointless. People don't slot it in unless they have their warframe potatoed and, eh, might as well. It's bordering on actively suicidal to have the slot and power eaten up by a power with such limited utility when there are so many other general boosts to power. Even then, often as not, I see it get tossed right out of the window for a mod with actual utility. The same is going to for Handspring, even though it's amazing.

Edited May 7, 2013 by I00thlurker

[epochofentropy]

I think it should be a mod, as I'm not one of those people that thinks the knockbacks are overpowered. If you ARE one of those people then this is right for you.

 

You may be a space ninja but you're not all powerful, Tenno have to have some weakness.

[MJ12]

I think it should be a mod, as I'm not one of those people that thinks the knockbacks are overpowered. If you ARE one of those people then this is right for you.

 

You may be a space ninja but you're not all powerful, Tenno have to have some weakness.

 

"Not all powerful != Gets up like a geriatric 80 year old with muscular dystrophy." See, if this hypothetical anti-CC mod was a 25% chance to ignore any CC effects (increasing to 100% at max level, which would be 3) per level, then it should be a mod. You're choosing between one type of survivability (the ability to resist or ignore staggers, knockbacks, and stuns, allowing you to take certain risks like stand in the middle of a group of Shockwave moas) and another type of survivability, or mobility, or offensive power, or something.

 

Right now it's a choice between convenience and power and furthermore is a choice you aren't even close to guaranteed to be able to make, which is absolutely insulting for anyone who doesn't like frustrating agency-removal mechanics because it's almost literally DE going "If you don't like agency removal too f**king bad. That makes you weak. We'll show this by forcing you to suck it up or take a mod which makes you weaker by taking up mod energy and not providing anything but somewhat faster knockdown recovery."

 

And I hope to god that this is an accidental goof (people make bad game design decisions even if they know what they're doing) instead of a deliberate insult.

Edited May 7, 2013 by MJ12

[I00thlurker]

I think it should be a mod, as I'm not one of those people that thinks the knockbacks are overpowered. If you ARE one of those people then this is right for you.

 

You may be a space ninja but you're not all powerful, Tenno have to have some weakness.

 

I'm sorry, but being airjuggled by Shockwave Moas is only a weakness in a sadomasochist's dreams.

 

What's absolutely insulting about your post is that you act as if Handspring negates knockback. IT DOESN'T. I'm not trading two different kinds of surviveability here, insofar as immunity to knockdown effects would be a worthy trade for a general boost to some statistic. I'm getting a marginally faster recovery from being knocked down.

Edited May 7, 2013 by I00thlurker

[Mak_Gohae]

It should be a basic part of being a Tenno space ninja who can wall run, blackflip, etc. Doing a recovery maneuver should simply cost stamina and be a button combination, like block + jump or something. 

 

 

Tenno alone are not space ninjas, Tennos in Warframes create a space ninja.

And Warframes are customized by their Tenno with mods to let them do all sorts of things.

This is one of the things added to the Warframes to help the Tenno.

 

All of the other warframe mods increase a stat for your warframe, this mod on the other hand feels like a shallow cash grab. It very much feels like the conversation went like this: "Hey you know that thing players have been complaining about forever and that should be a game play mechanic that would require skill and be awesome? Lets just make it a mod instead and use it to sell platinum packs."

 

I'm more than happy to spend money on this game, but when some pretty obvious game play design is sacrificed for the sake of attempting to get people to purchase mods, it's frustrating. 

 

It's available to anyone so i dont see how this is a cash grab.

Plus if it was just a button press maneuver you know people would just macro the thing to they wouldn't need to do anything at all probably.

All these talk of "skill" should really get thrown out the window.

[Mak_Gohae]

 

Right now it's a choice between convenience and power and furthermore is a choice you aren't even close to guaranteed to be able to make, which is absolutely insulting for anyone who doesn't like frustrating agency-removal mechanics because it's almost literally DE going "If you don't like agency removal too f**king bad. That makes you weak. We'll show this by forcing you to suck it up or take a mod which makes you weaker by taking up mod energy and not providing anything but somewhat faster knockdown recovery."

 

And I hope to god that this is an accidental goof (people make bad game design decisions even if they know what they're doing) instead of a deliberate insult.

 

Yeah! Ha-ha to people that, for some strange reason, dont like to evade stuff in a run and gun game.

Take it! People, that for some strange reason, dont want to play a game the way it was built to be played.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[MJ12]

Yeah! Ha-ha to people that, for some strange reason, dont like to evade stuff in a run and gun game.

Take it! People, that for some strange reason, dont want to play a game the way it was built to be played.

 

Okay, because 'like to evade things' means 'you never get knocked down' man what. People can make mistakes. Handspring's only purpose is to punish people with low tolerance for bulls**t fake difficulty and loss of agency.

[MoonicusMaximus]

Because it's a choice between "not being frustrated" and "having power curve". It's basically confusing the ability to tolerate frustration with "skill", which is something else entirely. See, the choice between survivability and ability use or mobility is a good one because avoiding damage is player skill. "Not being frustrated" is not player skill, it's just frustration tolerance. I can avoid stunlock/knockdown most of the time but I loathe the very concept so I get punished because I prefer playing the game instead of watching my character get up at the speed of my grandma.

 

"But you can avoid stunlocks and knockdowns" you say. Chain knockdowns are also relatively rare. So the choice is between "not being frustrated in rare situations" and "being stronger in all situations". Do you not see how this is a terrible choice which is de facto punishing people who don't like fake difficulty and loss of agency by going "Hahahaha you losers. Because you don't like stunlock you're weaker."

 

It's a terrible choice which doesn't provide anything to the game and punishes the people who actually wanted

 

It'd be like if you had to choose between wallrunning (this is in a hypothetical alternate Warframe where wallrunning is completely unnecessary for completing levels) and Redirection/Vitality. It's a terrible choice that not only marginalizes the mechanic but forces people to choose between being cool/not being frustrated and the ease of which they negotiate tougher content.

 

This is doubly insulting because Handspring is a rare mod and thus even if you really want it it takes approximately ages or blowing several bucks worth of real cash to get one.

 

Doesn't provide anything to the game? But that's wrong. It provides a much faster recovery to stuns and knockdowns, just as it describes. That can be considered valuable if, say, you are having trouble with dodging enemies that stun. That would be desirable. Likewise, if I have no trouble dodging Chargers, but I am pretty terrible at gauging when I should recover my weak shields, I would prefer Redirection to soften my time spent outside and inside of lines of fire.

 

What you're asking for is a mechanic that DE has not built the game to work around. DE has built Warframe and has given you the ability to dodge troublesome stuns and staggers, but not to recover from them when you are hit until after a short stagger duration, to act as a punishment and an incentive to NOT be hit.

 

It just seems excessive for alleviating what some would call "frustration" and what others would call "just another small hindrance, like being damaged".

Edited May 7, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus

[MoonicusMaximus]

Okay, because 'like to evade things' means 'you never get knocked down' man what. People can make mistakes. Handspring's only purpose is to punish people with low tolerance for bulls**t fake difficulty and loss of agency.

 People can make mistakes, but your mistakes aren't punished in such a huge manner that it's unreasonable. Stuns do not last all that long. Handspring makes it last even less.