Why Is Everyone Hating On Tenno Live And Chroma ?

[Darkmoone1]

Nothing will be made better until DE actually decides to communicate more with the players rather than just use twitch streams as a stopgap. 

Which is crazy considering DE communicates and listens to this community more than most companies I've seen.

[vaugahn]

Well I can't disagree with that. Shame on me for being naive. 

I am one of those people that dislikes the design of chroma too.

It was not a surprise but I had hoped that something had been learned from the last fan concept by both DE and the Community. I was wrong. 

 

Nothing will be made better until DE actually decides to communicate more with the players rather than just use twitch streams as a stopgap. 

 

*looks at recent staff replies*

 

I don't think there's much more communicating they can do. Just look at the sheer volume of opinions found on these forums, there's no way to respect all of them.

[Invalid_Infinity]

Which is crazy considering DE communicates and listens to this community more than most companies I've seen.

 

*looks at recent staff replies*

 

I don't think there's much more communicating they can do. Just look at the sheer volume of opinions found on these forums, there's no way to respect all of them.

I know. It just never seems like enough. 

 

Too many people and not enough of them to cover everything. 

[OniDax]

*looks at recent staff replies*

 

I don't think there's much more communicating they can do. Just look at the sheer volume of opinions found on these forums, there's no way to respect all of them.

 

The thing is, it's not how much they communicate. It's what they communicate.

[Kasseopea]

And if they had put one that was like Endrian's concept in the game, you'd be saying "GJ DE you are the most uncreative game designer ever why'd you rip off a fan concept".

 

Also, these are all swords:

 

 

Dragons are the same way.

Aaaaaand its still a sharp blade on a handle.

 

A dragon is not a seahorse-anteater.

 

Also - they did it with Silva&Aegis and Kronen, did they not? Yeah, k, they fcked S&A up, because this SHIELD AND SWORD is eating more Stamina up than a fckn dagger when you block something, but still.

 

Besides, its not about pleasing all, its about pleasing the majority. Look through the thread, go on, i dare. You will find that most people are disappointed, then a good part who says "yeah...could be worse...you know, like an african tribeswomen in space...who makes 0 sense because tribeswomen never have been warriors" and then some few which will defend the devs to the death, even if they make a Kim Kardashian X Justin Bieber X Nicki Minaj Warframe.

 

Point is - the frame looks crap and everyone knows it. Its not original, its not pretty, its not cool. Its just annoyingly weird.

[achromos]

Point is - the frame looks crap and everyone knows it. Its not original, its not pretty, its not cool. Its just annoyingly weird.

 

To you.  Quit saying "Everyone"  because it's definitely not me and unless you are blind... other people like the frame too.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Yeah, so? Katana, Flamberge, Estoc - sharp metal blade on a handle. Its not a shield, its not a chair, its not a potato.

Dragons have 4 classifications:

Western Dragon - Your typical "save the princess" dragon. 4 Legs, 2 wings. Your Smaug, Touthless or Charizard.

Eastern Dragon - The flying snake-thingies with beards and no wings. Cosplayed sometimes by a bunch of duded under one costume. Your Gyrados.

Leviathan - water dragon, which are looking like this in case your were going for the seahorse argument:

And finally feathered dragons. Your quetzalcoatl or Rayquaza.

I meant this one (he sure as fck is more similar to Frost than Chroma to a dragon of any sort):

Yeah, Smaug doesn't even have four legs AND two wings. And even those categories describe only loosely how a dragon looks like.

This is pointless, no matter how hard you try to generalize.

Funny enough, the only thing I would understand as an argument would be, why they labeled it community frame if they outright ignore the input.

That would be the point. The other stuff is just made up.

Edited March 11, 2015 by SIDESTRE4M

[Ronyn]

A bit of exaggeration on my side...

 

The core is that streamlined designs sell the best. Remember Brakk? Remember how many people cried about it's ugliness and rather wanted to have that less detailed and less animated brick called Detron? I don't trust people on things like that anymore.

 

I admit, I expected another design as well, but oh my god are people having a jam about hating on Chroma because they don't get their Smaugframe. That's the sad part of the story. The people won't give the artist any freedom.

I bet he would have made everyone happy if he just had that helmet with an opened Jaw and some sort of a face (as far as Tenno have that) and a gundam like mech with dragon features which you get in every anime, but do we really want that?

I'll take the standby over a seahorse snout attached to a forehead.

 

In all seriousness....

We are talking about one of (possibly THE) most popular fantasy creature of all time here.

 

Out of the many cultures that have them, out of the many well received depictions of them....

is there really no way to do something unique yet still recognizable to the masses at first glance?  

 

Freedom is good but occasionally it will lead too far from home.

Originality has to balance with respect for the source material or it looses it's base.

 

There are many ways for today's artists to go-

http://www.deviantart.com/browse/all/?section=&global=1&q=dragon+heads

https://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=dragon%20heads

-and the vast majority of them are pretty recognizable as dragon heads.

Only a few go to some extreme difference.

 

I can't pretend that Chroma's helmet is dragonesque. I can only accept that DE has the right to follow their own vision to whatever end.

 

That said I have no interest in grabbing the proverbial torch and pitchfork. I just want some alt helmets I can identify more closely as dragon like.

To be honest, I can't see how asking for that is in any way unreasonable.

 

 

 I would understand as an argument would be, why they labeled it community frame if they outright ignore the input.

That would be the point. 

That is part of it.

 

 

And if they had put one that was like Endrian's concept in the game, you'd be saying "GJ DE you are the most uncreative game designer ever why'd you rip off a fan concept".

In all fairness, there are several ways that DE could have taken Endirans concept and modified it enough to make it more unique/less spikey rhino than it was. It's not a matter of just like it or nothing like it. 

Moreover, if DE did want to go almost exactly with what Endrian had they could have done something similar tow hat they did with community weapon and skin designs. Based on the common reaction to the current community made content, most folks don't turn that into a reason to call the developers uncreative. 

 

 

Oh, please. Don't be silly. You know as well as I do that no matter which route they took with this frame, the forums were going to go crazy. 

This is a cop out. DE makes a lot of decisions and there are always going to be those who don't like them.

However, there are several choices they make that don't result in this big of an issue.

There is no reason to assume that the forums were going to be "crazy" no matter what they presented.

This isn't the first big battle on the boards but then a lot of things come out with far less backlash than this has.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Ronyn

[Ronyn]

CHROMA UNMASKED!

http://www.writeups.org/img/fiche/4152.jpg

 

heh heh....sigh...I'm getting sleepy.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Ronyn

[Ronyn]

Also, these are all swords:

 

 

 

 

BTW-That is not a sword. That is a Katar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katar_%28dagger%29 Technically a type of dagger.

Just because there are a great variety of different swords and this other thing here shares some similarities doesn't mean it makes sense to blur the lines completely and call it something it is not.

Dragons are the same way.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Ronyn

[SIDESTRE4M]

To be fair here, it was not Vaughan who started with the overgeneralisation to proof a point.

 

And yes, I'm pretty much sure there would have been a better way of pleasing the masses. We can blame DE for not doing that, but this doesn't invalidate Chroma's design, whether people like it or not.

 

This is why I said some people are brainwashed by media, because they can't accept anything other than what they already know from movies/games/tcg/rpg and so on.

 

If I'd fetch our 80 year old book with stories from Grimm and others and look at the pictures, the way the dragons look have nothing to do with those in GoT, Hobbit, et cetera.

 

Granted, I don't remember a dragon with such a narrow jaw but that's not the point.

Point is, people are trying to claim a standard dragon design exists.

 

I can accept zeitgeist as an argument, if anybody would even use it.

[Invalid_Infinity]

To be fair here, it was not Vaughan who started with the overgeneralisation to proof a point.

 

And yes, I'm pretty much sure there would have been a better way of pleasing the masses. We can blame DE for not doing that, but this doesn't invalidate Chroma's design, whether people like it or not.

 

This is why I said some people are brainwashed by media, because they can't accept anything other than what they already know from movies/games/tcg/rpg and so on.

 

If I'd fetch our 80 year old book with stories from Grimm and others and look at the pictures, the way the dragons look have nothing to do with those in GoT, Hobbit, et cetera.

 

Granted, I don't remember a dragon with such a narrow jaw but that's not the point.

Point is, people are trying to claim a standard dragon design exists.

 

I can accept zeitgeist as an argument, if anybody would even use it.

I have rarely played any games that contain dragons in them (strange I know but it is true) and I like to think I am fairly resistant to being "brainwashed" as you called it. 

 

I have read many books and they use all manner of designs for dragons. Still nothing of what I see in chroma however. A standard dragon DOES exist, several actually. None look anything like chroma. 

 

No matter where you go in the world you can tell a dragon from something that is not a dragon. Many cultures have dragons that are easily recognizable as such. 

 

The reason why there is such variety when looking for a dragon design is simply that people elaborate and add on to their idea of a dragon. But note this; they all still look like dragons. They are easily recognizable as dragons. 

 

Look at chroma, the only real thing that gives me the impression of a dragon is that ugly helmet that still looks more like a seahorse than a dragon.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Then we have a stalemate between us because in that animation I saw in the devstream, there wasn't anything other than a dragon I could think about.

 

As such I could argue, the design as a dragon is a success and since the concept of dragon is based on phantasy, DE can go with what evr they want, even if it resembles other animals partly, which other dragons do partly either, sharing similarities with lizards, crocodiles, dinosaurs and so on.

 

That people find him ugly is another thing. I can't argue that because it is personal opinion.

Edited March 11, 2015 by SIDESTRE4M

[-Jack.Of.Blades-]

Then we have a stalemate between us because in that animation I saw in the devstream, there wasn't anything other than a dragon I could think about.

 

As such I could argue, the design as a dragon is a success and since the concept of dragon is based on phantasy, DE can go with what evr they want, even if it resembles other animals partly, which other dragons do partly either, sharing similarities with lizards, crocodiles, dinosaurs and so on.

 

That people find him ugly is another thing. I can't argue that because it is personal opinion.

A well thought out post,well done.

[vaugahn]

Aaaaaand its still a sharp blade on a handle.

 

A dragon is not a seahorse-anteater.

 

Also - they did it with Silva&Aegis and Kronen, did they not? Yeah, k, they fcked S&A up, because this SHIELD AND SWORD is eating more Stamina up than a fckn dagger when you block something, but still.

 

Besides, its not about pleasing all, its about pleasing the majority. Look through the thread, go on, i dare. You will find that most people are disappointed, then a good part who says "yeah...could be worse...you know, like an african tribeswomen in space...who makes 0 sense because tribeswomen never have been warriors" and then some few which will defend the devs to the death, even if they make a Kim Kardashian X Justin Bieber X Nicki Minaj Warframe.

 

Point is - the frame looks crap and everyone knows it. Its not original, its not pretty, its not cool. Its just annoyingly weird.

And I guess you and I are the same individual because we both have hands attached to arms? It's real easy to distill a diverse category down to a single generalization.

Also, opinions. But I'm sure you know that.

[KorbanGado]

Besides, its not about pleasing all, its about pleasing the majority. Look through the thread, go on, i dare. You will find that most people are disappointed, then a good part who says "yeah...could be worse...you know, like an african tribeswomen in space...who makes 0 sense because tribeswomen never have been warriors" and then some few which will defend the devs to the death, even if they make a Kim Kardashian X Justin Bieber X Nicki Minaj Warframe.

 

Point is - the frame looks crap and everyone knows it. Its not original, its not pretty, its not cool. Its just annoyingly weird.

   Opposition is almost always more vocal than supporters I find. It's okay that you don't like it, it's okay that other people don't like it - but how it looks is purely personal opinion. I like how it looks. Other people like how it looks. You don't. Others don't. Human beings are not hive-mind, regardless of what the internet may say.

My point is - leave it at "some of us don't like it", not "everyone" doesn't like it. It's okay for people to like or not like it's looks, either way its subjective to the person.

 

BTW-That is not a sword. That is a Katar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katar_%28dagger%29 Technically a type of dagger.

Just because there are a great variety of different swords and this other thing here shares some similarities doesn't mean it makes sense to blur the lines completely and call it something it is not.

Dragons are the same way.

Now, if there's one thing I like and maybe know more about than Dragons, it's sword. Although that picture there is certainly that of a traditional looking Katar, there is a sword identical in function known as a Pata - it's an Indian gauntlet sword.

Really, I get both the arguments - things tend to be classified by over-arching similarites between them, but also there can be a near-infinite range of differences between things in that set.

It's like, if a sword is simply a handle with a cutting implement on the end, then techinically all axes, halbards, daggers, knives, and ice-skates would be considered swords. On the other end, if we get so specific that the sword has to be a certain length, with a grip of a certain size, and a basket gaurd hilt, and only a single cutting edge on it's blade that exists of a certain grip, then the only sword is a basket hilt claymore

, which is in fact a very different thing than the normal claymore everyone thinks about.

Despite looks, there's still the powers aspect we all havent gotten to see - and that's possibly where the dragon really may shine through.

[Ronyn]

   Opposition is almost always more vocal than supporters I find. It's okay that you don't like it, it's okay that other people don't like it - but how it looks is purely personal opinion. I like how it looks. Other people like how it looks. You don't. Others don't. Human beings are not hive-mind, regardless of what the internet may say.

My point is - leave it at "some of us don't like it", not "everyone" doesn't like it. It's okay for people to like or not like it's looks, either way its subjective to the person.

Opposition being more vocal doesn't discount the outcry. DE presents us with a lot of stuff, while there are always those who are displeased, only sometimes is there a negative response to this magnitude. At any rate I agree that liking or not is subjective and it should be simple enough to accept differences in tastes. However, whether one likes or dislikes it is a somewhat separate question from whether it accurately portrays any previously known version of a dragon.

 

Now, if there's one thing I like and maybe know more about than Dragons, it's sword. Although that picture there is certainly that of a traditional looking Katar, there is a sword identical in function known as a Pata - it's an Indian gauntlet sword.

Really, I get both the arguments - things tend to be classified by over-arching similarites between them, but also there can be a near-infinite range of differences between things in that set.

It's like, if a sword is simply a handle with a cutting implement on the end, then techinically all axes, halbards, daggers, knives, and ice-skates would be considered swords. On the other end, if we get so specific that the sword has to be a certain length, with a grip of a certain size, and a basket gaurd hilt, and only a single cutting edge on it's blade that exists of a certain grip, then the only sword is a basket hilt claymore

, which is in fact a very different thing than the normal claymore everyone thinks about.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say that the Pata is entirely identical in function to the katar, it is mostly identical in function. Still this is good stuff here. It illustrates the point fairly well. There are variations within things as well as distinctions between things. Knowing the difference is key. 

Which is what I am trying to convey in relation to Chroma and dragon design in general.

 

   Despite looks, there's still the powers aspect we all havent gotten to see - and that's possibly where the dragon really may shine through.

Indeed. 

[achromos]

Opposition being more vocal doesn't discount the outcry. DE presents us with a lot of stuff, while there are always those who are displeased, only sometimes is there a negative response to this magnitude. At any rate I agree that liking or not is subjective and it should be simple enough to accept differences in tastes. However, whether one likes or dislikes it is a somewhat separate question from whether it accurately portrays any previously known version of a dragon.

 

 

It doesn't discount, but maybe it should bring into perspective the fact that there are JUST as many or more people who like chroma, don't care about chroma [in a good or bad way], or don't feel like posting to the forums.  Trust me, not everyone who plays this game [same with others] goes to the forums.

 

People however who are mad?  They look for outlets, ways to complain to get what they want, so... what is the best, easiest, most simple way that comes to mind?  The forums.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Sibarian

[OniDax]

It doesn't discount, but maybe it should bring into perspective the fact that there are JUST as many or more people who like chroma, don't care about chroma [in a good or bad way], or don't feel like posting to the forums.  Trust me, not everyone who plays this game [same with others] goes to the forums.

 

People however who are mad?  They look for outlets, ways to complain to get what they want, so... what is the best, easiest, most simple way that comes to mind?  The forums.

 

Well, of course you'll want to assume that there are just as many or more people who like Chroma or don't care about it. After all, your position wouldn't look as good when all indications point to you being in the minority. It's easy to say that most people agree with what DE says. After all, who disagrees with something DE does, right?

Edited March 11, 2015 by AntoineFlemming

[Muminidas]

I like Chroma's design.

 Frame around his arms looks like if it was melted or something, also this helmet of his .... ppl may say it's ugly but it's freakin' nice, exciting and original. Same thing was with Limbo and then, with time ppl started to love his "magician's hat". I was thinking the same about Limbo and now I can't switch his original helmet for the alternative one. :D It's Warframe for you! 

 

Moreover, 2nd TennoLive was amazing and ppl can shut up 'coz they are too negative lately. 

 

[Kartumterek]

Chroma has shown once and for all that the majority of the playerbase isnt interested in uniqueness, originality, or on deviation from the norm.

 

Like the Grineer, all they want is clones. Like Corpus, they want it cheap to then sell at a profit.

 

no better than either faction and acting less nobly than the Infestation

 

mayhaps it would of been better to not wake so many of you from Cryo sleep

 

[Absens]

Chroma has shown once and for all that the majority of the playerbase isnt interested in uniqueness, originality, or on deviation from the norm.

 

Like the Grineer, all they want is clones. Like Corpus, they want it cheap to then sell at a profit.

 

no better than either faction and acting less nobly than the Infestation

 

mayhaps it would of been better to not wake so many of you from Cryo sleep

 

You cant possibly think the only original design was that abomination we saw.

[Ronyn]

It doesn't discount, but maybe it should bring into perspective the fact that there are JUST as many or more people who like chroma, don't care about chroma [in a good or bad way], or don't feel like posting to the forums.  Trust me, not everyone who plays this game [same with others] goes to the forums.

 

People however who are mad?  They look for outlets, ways to complain to get what they want, so... what is the best, easiest, most simple way that comes to mind?  The forums.

 

So does that mean we should ignore ALL forum feedback on the basis that the silent majority may or may not think something different?

Does the fact that the displeased generally make more noise than the pleased mean that we should ignore complaints because there may or may not be a bunch of people who like something but just haven't spoken up?

Do you want your complaints discounted based on what may or not be felt by those who wont speak up?

Perspective is tricky....  

 

The forms represent a sample size. A group of vocal individuals. That's all. If we we were to get a real consensus of the player it could go in any number of ways. It would be folly to assume we know what the silent majority thinks about anything. 

That in mind DE should use the forums as one of many sources of feedback that they factor in.

No more, no less.

 

 

Chroma has shown once and for all that the majority of the playerbase isnt interested in uniqueness, originality, or on deviation from the norm.

There are many other unique, original and deviated versions of other stuff DE has put out was received without the big negative explosion.

The reality is that its not as simple as "people like original things VS people don't like original things".

 

Let us not use these sort of oversimplifications to dismiss other peoples viewpoints.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Ronyn

[Kartumterek]

You cant possibly think the only original design was that abomination we saw.

 

 

You guys are in the wrong game if you are up in arms over the look of something.

 

Your excessive vanity is most unbecoming of a Tenno

[Ronyn]

 Frame around his arms looks like if it was melted or something, also this helmet of his .... ppl may say it's ugly but it's freakin' nice, exciting and original. Same thing was with Limbo and then, with time ppl started to love his "magician's hat". I was thinking the same about Limbo and now I can't switch his original helmet for the alternative one. :D It's Warframe for you! 

Let's talk expectation for a minute....

Limbo was called a magician archetype by DE, then revealed to have a magician hat on his head.

Chroma was called a dragon themed frame by DE, then revealed to have a seahorse snout on his head.

 

And really, sure some folks complained about Limbo's look but the larger majority of limbo complaints were about how his powers worked.

The amount of backlash on Chroma's look is well beyond folks response to Limbo's visual style.

 

But yes. Alt helmets are wonderful and I hope one for Chroma fits more with what many people are hoping for.