Jackal Needs A Significant Change / Worse Than Captain Vor

[SoaringEagle]

From what I've gathered in the forums, the Jackal is praised as being the most challenging and interesting boss to fight  when compared to all the others, especially Captain Vor. So, for those jumping out of their chairs at the sight of my title, please allow me to explain: currently no boss is challenging when you have a max-modded supercharged weapon, and this post is not suggesting making him more challenging.

 

The major issue is the damage cap used to reactivate his shields after he has been downed, which makes him take significantly longer to kill than any other boss. The damage cap should be removed and his downed timer should be adjusted to accommodate this change.

 

If we have the firepower to rain death on him we should be allowed to.

 

Update May 11: Here is a video contrasting a Ceres Jackal to an Eris Captain Vor:

 

 

You can count how many times I had a chance to deal damage to his body, and how many times I tried to and the Jackal was already shielded. You can also count how many times the Jackal had a chance to fight back.

 

The extra time required to kill the Jackal is not justified, so here is another idea to make this boss fight slightly shorter: Rather than having his shield regenerate immediately after taking the damage cap and standing up, have his shield regenerate when he is fully erect and able to take damage to his legs. The extra time to dps would make a big difference in the time required to defeat him, and for those starting out with significantly less dps the impact will be small.

Edited May 11, 2013 by SoaringEagle

[MetalGerbil]

the cap is there it make him challenging for people of the appropirate lvl with average gear for that range.

 

you cant balance low lvl play with high lvl setups.

 

"i want to nuke this low lvl boss faster when im maxed out" is hardly a valid reasoning point.

 

its a well designed boss because it takes many things into account when players fight him. instead of just "how many bullets can i put in him as quickly as possible".

 

how about we not turn him into all the other bosses that suck?

[holdenagincourt]

The system is fine when you fight him in his normal place on Fossa, but becomes absurd and tedious when you fight him at, e.g. level 55 on event missions.

 

It takes a full team like 15 minutes or more to kill him at high levels because of the damage cap, which to all appearances is hard set numerically and doesn't normalize to whatever level he's at. Jackal just becomes another time sink like most of the other bosses at level 55.

[SoaringEagle]

the cap is there it make him challenging for people of the appropirate lvl with average gear for that range.

 

you cant balance low lvl play with high lvl setups.

 

"i want to nuke this low lvl boss faster when im maxed out" is hardly a valid reasoning point.

 

its a well designed boss because it takes many things into account when players fight him. instead of just "how many bullets can i put in him as quickly as possible".

 

how about we not turn him into all the other bosses that suck?

 

I really wish I recorded the boss fight from a couple hours ago during the alert. You would understand what I'm talking about then.

 

It's a boss fight where we stare at him falling down and getting back up for 5 minutes. Changes should be made.

 

The system is fine when you fight him in his normal place on Fossa, but becomes absurd and tedious when you fight him at, e.g. level 55 on event missions.

 

It takes a full team like 15 minutes or more to kill him at high levels because of the damage cap, which to all appearances is hard set numerically and doesn't normalize to whatever level he's at. Jackal just becomes another time sink like most of the other bosses at level 55.

 

A VERY significant time sink. You can kill Ambulas or Phorrid at least 5x faster than Jackal, and I believe that's a generous estimate.

[SoaringEagle]

Added a video and another suggestion, one that I prefer over the first, to help reduce some of the time required to defeat him.

[Xylia]

Also, can we reduce his leg regeneration on Alert Missions at the very least?

 

It seems like the Fossa version is about right, but higher level Jackals regenerate leg health far too quickly, making it difficult for 1-2 players to put him down. Do half damage to a leg, run away from rockets/grenades, come back..... leg is back to full health 10 seconds later.

 

Niiiiiice.

 

Pretty much makes for an impossible fight without having ridiculously overpowered/supercharged/maxmodded weapons.

[Aggh]

the cap is there it make him challenging for people of the appropirate lvl with average gear for that range.

 

you cant balance low lvl play with high lvl setups.

 

"i want to nuke this low lvl boss faster when im maxed out" is hardly a valid reasoning point.

 

its a well designed boss because it takes many things into account when players fight him. instead of just "how many bullets can i put in him as quickly as possible".

 

how about we not turn him into all the other bosses that suck?

Lol.  Instead it's "how many bullets can I put into his leg as quickly as possible while staying out range of his attacks."  Not much better tbh.

 

The system is fine when you fight him in his normal place on Fossa, but becomes absurd and tedious when you fight him at, e.g. level 55 on event missions.

 

It takes a full team like 15 minutes or more to kill him at high levels because of the damage cap, which to all appearances is hard set numerically and doesn't normalize to whatever level he's at. Jackal just becomes another time sink like most of the other bosses at level 55.

There was a level 84 jackal (some people got a level 92 one) in an alert a while back.  Even with pre u7 300% multishot crits eveywhere gorgons people ran out of ammo (I was the only one with ammo boxes) and had to melee him for a solid five minutes.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Aggh

[Creavyer]

From what I've gathered in the forums, the Jackal is praised as being the most challenging and interesting boss to fight  when compared to all the others, especially Captain Vor. So, for those jumping out of their chairs at the sight of my title, please allow me to explain: currently no boss is challenging when you have a max-modded supercharged weapon, and this post is not suggesting making him more challenging.

 

The major issue is the damage cap used to reactivate his shields after he has been downed, which makes him take significantly longer to kill than any other boss. The damage cap should be removed and his downed timer should be adjusted to accommodate this change.

 

If we have the firepower to rain death on him we should be allowed to.

 

Update May 11: Here is a video contrasting a Ceres Jackal to an Eris Captain Vor:

 

 

You can count how many times I had a chance to deal damage to his body, and how many times I tried to and the Jackal was already shielded. You can also count how many times the Jackal had a chance to fight back.

 

The extra time required to kill the Jackal is not justified, so here is another idea to make this boss fight slightly shorter: Rather than having his shield regenerate immediately after taking the damage cap and standing up, have his shield regenerate when he is fully erect and able to take damage to his legs. The extra time to dps would make a big difference in the time required to defeat him, and for those starting out with significantly less dps the impact will be small.

 

its a mechanic i would even say jackel is the best boss there is in warframe atm its the only one you cant just run right over

 

i want more mechanics to bosses not just alot of health & high dmg. 

 

Edit: i dont agree that just because you can kill it in 10 secs you should be able to.

Edited May 11, 2013 by ComeAgian

[Creavyer]

Also, can we reduce his leg regeneration on Alert Missions at the very least?

 

It seems like the Fossa version is about right, but higher level Jackals regenerate leg health far too quickly, making it difficult for 1-2 players to put him down. Do half damage to a leg, run away from rockets/grenades, come back..... leg is back to full health 10 seconds later.

 

Niiiiiice.

 

Pretty much makes for an impossible fight without having ridiculously overpowered/supercharged/maxmodded weapons.

 

its a co-op game... your not suppose to solo everything

[Zeddypanda]

How about he starts shielding after a certain fraction of his health has been removed rather than using what is clearly a set amount intended for Fossa?

[Emotitron]

Fair complaint , but I see it as more of people complaining about stuff that isn't meant to be endgame content being played as if it is endgame content.

Really, they just need to start envisioning what endgame will look like and start down the path of developing the content for that. Adding more weapons/warframes/maps without a proper long-game vision is going to burn them sooner or later. They may have one, and if anyone knows what it is - I would love to hear it.

That long plan is what is going to decide the fate of this game, and I personally want to see it survive. Farming endless waves for mod upgrades that are only good for farming higher and higher level endless waves is only going to keep people going for so long - and is going to continue to contribute to a disbalance in player stats that is going to complicate future content designs.

[Hafilgar]

The OP's right. The jackal isn't even challenging anymore. It's probably the most time consuming boss now because of its immediate shield regen. It should have a set time limit for how long it's downed for after shooting the legs rather than a damage cap. That way a maxed out weapon can deal more damage over time rather than it doing the same damage compared to an unranked braton before the jackal's shield goes back up. Right now It's pretty much setting a time restriction on killing the boss. so say the minimum amount of time to kill jackal is 3 minutes only (GUESSWORK). you can't kill it any faster because the damage cap to recovery rate and shield regen is set it that way,

[_Rue_]

yeah something should be done about this. People just camp under him and charge attack with scindo/fragor/gram till he's dead. >_<