seth Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Some people need to get nerfed and warframe needs balance overhaul; but no one seems to want that. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIDESTRE4M Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Somehow I have the feeling it was adressed to me, but I honestly don't know what to answer. Who is we, what do you enjoy exactly? And how is balancing related to industry standards? (If proper balancing really was industry standard, we would have a better world lol) And balancing what? Our items? Enemies/Tenno? Edited March 27, 2015 by SIDESTRE4M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Some people want a game like Serious Sam (I can't think of a better example at the moment); as, it does not take itself seriously and it's all-about blowing stuff up and relaxing. This type of game that has a sloppy rule-set where the developers expect you to cheat and have fun. Another example game would be Disaga, the game encourages you to cheat. Other people want a game that's rule-set is refined and there is no possibility to game the system for an advantage. Balance for this genre means players can not get ahead of the system ever. Edited March 27, 2015 by LazyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIDESTRE4M Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Thanks for the explanation. At this point the devs have the last word and as he says, there is no universal right, just different premises. The latter of your example would usually be a higher quality game in at least my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climatiseur Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Before the community can properly talk about balance, Endless missions must be ended. Infinite scaling must become finite. The core mechanics of the game must be changed. Otherwise this Nerf or buff argument will also be endless and infinity. Edited March 27, 2015 by climatiseur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRaine Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) If enemies versus players is not balanced, then why is everyone crying about balance in a PvE game? Because the enemies are unbalanced. Because the difficulty gate to farm anything in the Void is beyond unreasonable, and quickly approaching insanity. Because DE doesn't understand that the current mod system is the root of all their evils. I will say it again. If any of the people whining and crying for nerfs cared at all for the balance of the game, they would be advocating buffs for the objectively bad frames, not nerfs for the objectively good ones. Melee is a complete and utter joke, and all half of you can cry about are nerfing guns and powers, like that will actually fix anything. It won't. Stop and think for three seconds before haring off on a self-righteous crusade to take away other people's nice things. Edited March 27, 2015 by LordRaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutoPhox Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Yeah, endless missions seem to be the unbalance. With infinite scaleing, some frame abilities will hold up and most will drop off. Perhaps if DE capped the endless missions at X min and X rounds, then there will be a "frame of reference" to create a fun and powerful tenno without such bias in top tiers. And to keep the challenge, dont just let units scale up, change the spawn rate of powerful units and add interesting utility units. We kind of see this evolution in mid teir survival/defence, but then it just gets repetitive. Would it help to truncate that repetition? Sadly, the marathoners would have to keep restarting their mission after, say 2ish hours...but is that a horrible trade-off? im sure this is not a novel suggestion to counter the nerfers, but id like to know how each side feels about it. (Or point us to the other thread that does). Because it is painfully obvious that there is a problem, and nerfs are not the only answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Artennos Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Funny when people ask to nerf some frames. If you use that frame then stop using or don't use the "need nerf" ability. If you don't use the frame then don't ruin the fun for other people. Just as easy as that. No one is forcing you to play with that frame on your team. If you dislike it then quit and find another one. Just as simple as that. If DE pays attention to thse people all frames will be nerfed at some point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 If you want to devastate hordes of enemies you should have to work at it, not farm the best gear and then press a few buttons repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePresident777 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 The Core of Warframe is about 4 Tenno Devastate Massive Enemy Army. There is no working towards the core. The core of a game just is, at all times, from begining to end. There is no working towards the core of a game because the core of the game is what the game is about. If the core of the game is working from peasant killing rats in the basement up to the shining white knight that saves the world, then one starts as the peasant killing rats in the basement and works up from there. But, that is not Warframe. Warframe is not about working up to being a Space ninja. It is about being a Space ninjas, 4 of them Devastating Massive Enemy Armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFkenny Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Wait, this game has a meta now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Wait, this game has a meta now? Most efficient farming methods according to reddit and mass hysteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotrap Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Let me just point out that there's a reason Radial Disarm is permanent. Why? Because it's not a full CC. Disarmed enemies can still deal lethal damage (esp. at high levels), they just can't shoot you to death. This ability is designed to allow the player to take full advantage of Loki's speed, without suffering from his squishiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaver_X Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Lol@ this thread. Loki is fine, Nova's fine If anything, i think nova's 1 ability should have some more utility (not in the form of augments) and loki's decoy could do with being a bit more durable. but nerfing? nah these frames are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibikiGanaha Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 It's not the point of beeing impossible or not, but rather that we have meta frames. That's all. Because some people survived crashs without airbags doesn't mean we don't need airbags. It's the same discussion about nullifiers. They are the result of bad scaling and the answer to our op-ness. Are they good for the game? Barely. Can we deal with them? Yes. I nearly succeeded doing the escalation event solo with loki. Try that with other frames and you find out how narrow the selection will become. Go to simulacrum, chose some level 90 bombards/heavy gunners and see for youself which frames are best for dealing with them. I suggest trying ember first. Now Ember may be a bad example, but it is merely meant to show how easy it is with certain frames while other frames are struggling to be of use at all. Dude what? Your argument for needing to nerf loki and nova was "there are no raids without them." I called you out on that bad logic and then the guy who was literally part of the fastest team for raiding told you he didn't use loki nor nova in their raid. You are obviously only trying to rile people up with this COMPLETELY WRONG argument. Just admit you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIDESTRE4M Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Dude what? Your argument for needing to nerf loki and nova was "there are no raids without them." I called you out on that bad logic and then the guy who was literally part of the fastest team for raiding told you he didn't use loki nor nova in their raid. You are obviously only trying to rile people up with this COMPLETELY WRONG argument. Just admit you are wrong. Now what? If you did follow my posts, then you should realize that my goal is not necessarily nerfing nova or Loki but leveling the warframes to a degree that their sums of strengths/weaknesses are roughly equal. If it happens that those two need to be toned down in the process so be it. Most of the arguments those pages where this quoted post was from were like this: They are op, they are not, yes they are, no they are not, spriraling forever. Even if they did the raid without -I guess they found better ways of speeding everything up after knowing what to do, or another ways to skip - the combination of these two frames among many other combinations stick out very much and gets used very much just when enemies get ultra high level. If you want to instrumentalize the fact that ONLY ONE obviously high skilled group did it without those after knowing their way around to tell me, that Nova and Loki aren't that strong, it doesn't work. Edited March 27, 2015 by SIDESTRE4M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePresident777 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Popularity is success. Popularity is not "OP" or non-"balanced". Edited March 28, 2015 by ThePresident777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIDESTRE4M Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Not necessarily. Yes. Otherwise I couldn't explain the amount of Rhinos. Edited March 27, 2015 by SIDESTRE4M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) Rhino prime is cheap and Rhino is easy to acquire. He's a durable safe choice out of the available starting options for a new player; considering, that they have next to no mods or cores to level them up. if you compare a stock level 30 rhino, without mods, to the others, the other Warframes seem rather underwhelming. Is he overpowered compared to the starting options? Maybe, buts that's the mods fault. This imbalance shift with mod scaling, but lots of people like playing as big dude in huge armor and always a factor. edit:Typos Edited March 28, 2015 by LazyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodForTheBloodGods Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 If you want to devastate hordes of enemies you should have to work at it, not farm the best gear and then press a few buttons repeatedly. How did you farm the best gear, my friend? Definitely didn't do any work, from your attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRaine Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 How did you farm the best gear, my friend? Definitely didn't do any work, from your attitude. Obviously not. If he put in the effort to farm even one of his bits of top shelf gear legitimately instead of buying it outright, we wouldn't be having this argument to begin with. I used to not understand why it was that the people who cried for nerfs the most were also the ones who spent the most money just outright buying rare things. Not just in Warframe, but in all games with a cash shop that allows you to skip grindwalls. Now I get it. It's because they spent actual money on their Sicarus Prime, it's because the used actual money to buy a Soma Prime. It's because they actually bought Chroma instead of building him naturally. They have buyer's remorse. They're angry that the thing they paid real money for is not as good as the common thing other people got for free. So they demand that the common thing be made objectively worse than the thing they paid money for, so they don't have to feel as ripped off. They don't actually think Loki is overpowered, not really. Not if they are honest with themselves. They're just tired of a Loki blazing past them, hosing down the entire exterm with an Amprex or a BoltorP, and then beating them to extract by ten minutes because the Loki brought a Tipedo to copter with while they brought a Galantine on their Mag. To that, I can only say this. Git gud. No, seriously, the Grineer are beating you to the extraction on invasions and Phoid manifestations. What are you doing back there that is taking so long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 How did you farm the best gear, my friend? Definitely didn't do any work, from your attitude. You should have to actually do things well in order to get good results in a mission, not grind until you become immortal and then trivialize all content with a button. It's not like getting the best gear is even hard; people who already have the best gear carry you through every mission anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etsoree Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Let me just point out that there's a reason Radial Disarm is permanent. Why? Because it's not a full CC. Disarmed enemies can still deal lethal damage (esp. at high levels), they just can't shoot you to death. This ability is designed to allow the player to take full advantage of Loki's speed, without suffering from his squishiness. Disarm. Cloak/hide on box. GG melee enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Obviously not. If he put in the effort to farm even one of his bits of top shelf gear legitimately instead of buying it outright, we wouldn't be having this argument to begin with. Is this sarcasm? I've never used plat except to buy slots and maybe one or two potatoes and I obtained about 70% of my platinum by trading corrupted mods, prime parts, and syndicate offerings for it. The other 30% was from selling legendary cores and a one-time plat purchase when I had a 75% off discount. The notion that it's OK for things to be overpowered if we have to grind a long time for them is preposterous. No wonder DE keeps increasing the grind wall; players are indirectly telling them that it's what they wanted all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatchias Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Obviously not. If he put in the effort to farm even one of his bits of top shelf gear legitimately instead of buying it outright, we wouldn't be having this argument to begin with. I used to not understand why it was that the people who cried for nerfs the most were also the ones who spent the most money just outright buying rare things. Not just in Warframe, but in all games with a cash shop that allows you to skip grindwalls. Now I get it. It's because they spent actual money on their Sicarus Prime, it's because the used actual money to buy a Soma Prime. It's because they actually bought Chroma instead of building him naturally. They have buyer's remorse. They're angry that the thing they paid real money for is not as good as the common thing other people got for free. So they demand that the common thing be made objectively worse than the thing they paid money for, so they don't have to feel as ripped off. They don't actually think Loki is overpowered, not really. Not if they are honest with themselves. They're just tired of a Loki blazing past them, hosing down the entire exterm with an Amprex or a BoltorP, and then beating them to extract by ten minutes because the Loki brought a Tipedo to copter with while they brought a Galantine on their Mag. To that, I can only say this. Git gud. No, seriously, the Grineer are beating you to the extraction on invasions and Phoid manifestations. What are you doing back there that is taking so long? Personally I'm just annoyed by those Lokis because all they're doing is ruining the fun for others due to their playstyles. Not every frame or every weapons is an instant death machine or speed maniac who can get from one end of the mission to the other in seconds. You want to play this like a racing game? Go play solo since you obviously don't care about working with a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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