Another Example Video And Some Opinions On Viable Changes.

[Horoutama]

I tend to keep my mouth shut on opinions, I have done my days worth of blabbering about "fix this fix that". But the above video has some keynotes that I feel need to be addressed. Today's issue is going to be: Spawn(s) System.

As you can see right from the beginning of the video (0:27) all I needed to do was perch somewhere with Latron Prime and rack up 5 kills before the first flag was even captured. Then proceeded to get a few more kills before eventually running out of ammo and making a flag cap run myself.

We all know spawning in PVP 2.0 is broken trash. So how do I propose we fix it? There are a few viable ways and I will go over 2 primary options that are my favorite.

Option 1: Giving each team it's own spawn room. A quick list of examples are Splinter Cell: PT (And CT/DA). Blackiight: Retribution, WoW Battlegrounds, Planetside 2(in a way at least).

This can be done in a few ways but all will require the maps given an addition. The way this solution works is that each team is given a closed off space only they can access. The method does not matter, a locked door, a barrier (energy shield or what have you), and impassible turrets that mow down anyone who gets in LOS of the enemy spawn.

As it stands the enemy base is BOTH the flag defense point AND the spawn. As such there is no such thing as spawn camping(sic). In an objective gametype securing the objective is required. Securing objective entails neutralizing all threats. Enemies are a threat. Therefor in order to secure objective enemies must be killed. This is a "big duh" is it not. The problem wherein lies how enemies are literally spawning on the objective. Hence spawn killing.

Option 1 in summary, Move the damn spawns.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Option 2: Increased invulnerability from spawn. We currently do have spawn invulnerability demonstrated in the video very well at (14:54). However when surrounded by a force of enemies who are all loaded with energy, have orientation, and mobility/momentum prior the current invulnerable period falls short.

The only way to succinctly describe this option is going for Gears of War 3 spawn mechanics. When spawned you have 6 seconds of invulnerability. It gets reduced by 2 if you move, and gets reduced by 4 if you attack.

To explain: If I spawned and stayed still for 3 seconds before deciding to move I would have 1 second left of invulnerability while moving. (6-3=3-2=1). If I spawned and decided to stay perfectly still but shoot at enemies right next to me, I would have 2 seconds of invulnerability. (6-4=2). If you decide to both move AND attack, your invulnerability dissipates.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

TL/DR: In short, no one should ever ever spawn within LOS of an enemy. Ever. There really is no debating in favor of this happening. Go ahead and try (No one has ever tried [shrug]).

I suppose you could just add a ton of walls/ceilings/cover to each bases areas and make it like a maze. But that isn't something I can suggest seeing as how that would imbalance far too many other aspects. (I'm looking at you Mr. Press4ToWin.)

[BladeFade]

How about a loss in accuracy when you move? nerfing op weps like bo prime, or the fangs speed?

[SilentCircle]

It shouldn't be possible to do continous slide attacks from one flag to the other without running out of stamina. The video shows that if you're good at that you're practically unstoppable.

[onemoonlight]

oh man, looking at that vid, bo prime's copter is so fast :0

[Thalahssalyst]

Thats why they need to take out copter.

 

[Dojutrek]

I think movement of spawns and spawn invulnerability should be looked at. Spawn camping became a thing when Fang Prime was used heavily before the update and being subjected to that isn't fun.

 

 

It shouldn't be possible to do continous slide attacks from one flag to the other without running out of stamina. The video shows that if you're good at that you're practically unstoppable.

 

That's what I noticed too. Seriously, I actually thought he was using a Macro to get that consistency, which I'm still on the fence about.

[onemoonlight]

Thats why they need to take out copter.

 

why? you could just make it equal across all weapons, on an acceptable level

[Thalahssalyst]

why? you could just make it equal across all weapons, on an acceptable level

You cant, try to do that with a Gram, or a Skana.

The coptering its not for all weapons, Zorencopter say something? What if i want to do coptering with a full Nikana with spoiled strike without Fury mod? I cant, Why? That Glitch dont work with all weapons.

Now on pvp, u see all people using bo prime as coptering, Rushing and finish the match like in the vid.

[onemoonlight]

You cant, try to do that with a Gram, or a Skana. (...)

 

...well, that's the point of my suggestion - to make it EQUAL between all melee weapons in pvp

 

(...) The coptering its not for all weapons (...)

 

yeah... in pve

 

(...) What if i want to do coptering with a full Nikana with spoiled strike without Fury mod? (...)

 

why bring up a nikana? It's not even in. Why bring up spoiled strike or fury? They're not in. That's pve stuff. We're talking stricte pvp

 

(...) I cant, Why? That Glitch dont work with all weapons. (...)

 

if the devs want to give all pvp melee weapons a copter equal to, an example, that of a skana, then they could. We're not tied to pve stats, they mean nothing. Just because a weapon in pve can copter or not does not mean it has to be the same in pvp

[Intalus]

A lot of these problems stem from the level design.   Whoever designs the levels NEEDS to be aware of what's capable with the movement system in Warframe.

[Feyangol]

A lot people don't know how the spawn invulnerability works.

You get a shield for ~8 seconds which makes you immune to dmg and CC until your first actions. Important is that you directly move away from your spawnlocations once you start to move to not get spawnkilled. The invulnerability could use some small imporvements, but it is fine, if you know how it works.

[Thalahssalyst]

...well, that's the point of my suggestion - to make it EQUAL between all melee weapons in pvp

 

 

yeah... in pve

 

 

why bring up a nikana? It's not even in. Why bring up spoiled strike or fury? They're not in. That's pve stuff. We're talking stricte pvp

 

 

if the devs want to give all pvp melee weapons a copter equal to, an example, that of a skana, then they could. We're not tied to pve stats, they mean nothing. Just because a weapon in pve can copter or not does not mean it has to be the same in pvp

U can do With bo prime, on pve and pvp.

When they put other weapons and warframe "balanced" , everything will be as before, only will see Zephyr with Tipedo or daggers.

The only difference between pvp and pve is there is Slide damage Section on melee

Based on movement the slide is a game mechanic, and coptering glitch, the only reason they dont remove it, is for no complains as happend with Chroma.

I do not see a section that says "Coptering" Stats in melee information.

 

[onemoonlight]

i think there's a little problem with communication

Edited March 25, 2015 by onemoonlight

[rockscl]

I actually thought he was using a Macro to get that consistency, which I'm still on the fence about.

 

not only for coptering, but it also looks like a macro on his lato, but that doesnt matter, if he was doing it all manually or not, any player can setup a macro and do it as well, so its fair

[Dojutrek]

not only for coptering, but it also looks like a macro on his lato, but that doesnt matter, if he was doing it all manually or not, any player can setup a macro and do it as well, so its fair

 

That's the thing, some don't or don't know how. I, myself, don't use a Macro because of my time playing Competitive CTF styled games. I feel that Macros are a crutch and allow for sloppy overall play. Personal taste I know, but without respective counters to the overall nature of certain actions there will continue to be threads about them. I don't advocate the legality or illegality, just that there needs to be in-game counters that can punish excessive use of certain actions.

 

As for the Lato Macro, it looks like he's just using the Mouse wheel to get that consistency. That can be setup in the in-game settings and some mice have a hardware toggle to allow free rolling on mouse wheels, so nothing wrong with that. However, this is an in-game or hardware design, it's not purely gameplay driven. 

Edited March 25, 2015 by Dojutrek