Kogake Cheese Is Getting Ridiculous

[Sword_Symphony]

No seriously, its all I see people use in PVP. Doing nothing but copter KD's and finishers. Do something DE. Its worse than the Volt Overload spam. 

[Rexian]

Its quite ridiculous, the knockdown effect the Kogake have is something I believe belong on the gram more than the Kogake. But the Kogake should still have a minor stun. I've found the best way to make them stop going at you is playing Excalibur and have 50+ energy and slash dash them a few times until they learn its a bad idea.

But I really wanna see the Gram getting a buff to how it works.

[ActualDruzy]

I feel like the chain knockdowns are way too much, and this is coming from a Kogake user.  It's too easy to disable people without giving them a chance to fight back.  After an initial knockdown or stun, I think there should be some CC invulnerability for a set period of time especially when you're trying to get back up from a knockdown.

 

Also, with the way knockdowns work in PvP, I don't think they have a place.  They last too long and destroy the flow of the game, maybe a short stun (edit: stagger) would be better..

Edited March 26, 2015 by Ramble_On_Dru

[Samoth95]

I feel that it's kind of unfair for one melee to get this effect on an attack everyone does ALOT in pvp (read: we all copter). An all or none policy would work best here. All copters cause knockdown or none.

[Aggh]

Its quite ridiculous, the knockdown effect the Kogake have is something I believe belong on the gram more than the Kogake. But the Kogake should still have a minor stun. I've found the best way to make them stop going at you is playing Excalibur and have 50+ energy and slash dash them a few times until they learn its a bad idea.

But I really wanna see the Gram getting a buff to how it works.

Or just put on a handspring :|

[Auramaru]

Or just put on a handspring :|

As someone who uses kogake regularly: I'll go ahead and say that handspring doesn't help people nearly enough

[Aggh]

As someone who uses kogake regularly: I'll go ahead and say that handspring doesn't help people nearly enough

Eh, it generally gives me enough time to get in a kill shot or a ability.  Combined with sure footed, kogake users are generally not much to worry about.  Imo as more mods are introduced worrying about knockdowns will be a build choice that keeps kogake viable.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Aggh

[Rexian]

Or just put on a handspring :|

Already have that on, handsprit doesnt mean you cannot be stunnef/knockad down. Even with handspring on people know you down and have enough time to pull our their primary and put in 1-5 bullets on you depending on the weapon before you can even return fire. With a Latron that means you're dead. So no, handspring doesn't save you, at least not in the situations I've found myself in against people who know what they're doing with their setups.

[Aggh]

Already have that on, handsprit doesnt mean you cannot be stunnef/knockad down. Even with handspring on people know you down and have enough time to pull our their primary and put in 1-5 bullets on you depending on the weapon before you can even return fire. With a Latron that means you're dead. So no, handspring doesn't save you, at least not in the situations I've found myself in against people who know what they're doing with their setups.

  I call BS.  I've yet to meet someone that actually kill you before you can get up on a handspring and I've also killed plenty of people coming off a handspring.  Surefooted also helps.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Aggh

[Rexian]

I call BS.  I've yet to meet someone that actually kill you before you can get up on a handspring.  Surefooted also helps.

Call it what you want Tenno, but maybe because you're on the giving end of things you don't see it as those who receive it. I've even told myself not to use it just because i consider it lame. Its a strategy none the less but you're still getting knocked down and for every second you're disabled from combat in Warframe, you're exposed to all sorts of damage incoming or even another stun.

[Lord_Noctus]

guys add each other and go for a match ok ? then u will see if its enough time or not. then post what u found out

Edited March 26, 2015 by Lord_Noctus

[BluelitHalo]

IAlso, with the way knockdowns work in PvP, I don't think they have a place.  They last too long and destroy the flow of the game, maybe a short stun (edit: stagger) would be better..

Equipping Handspring has worked fairly well with countering knockdowns, which makes me wonder: why don't we have innate Handspring effect?  It sets such a huge gap in utility between the players that have it and the players that don't.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Sonitorum

[zerogear5]

  I call BS.  I've yet to meet someone that actually kill you before you can get up on a handspring and I've also killed plenty of people coming off a handspring.  Surefooted also helps.

You may get up but the odds of not dying from the follow up stun are quite low

[osheroth]

Is it just me or does it has the same range as any Bo variation? I see people swinging at a considerable distance and they still knock everyone down.

[Gelkor]

I feel that it's kind of unfair for one melee to get this effect on an attack everyone does ALOT in pvp (read: we all copter). An all or none policy would work best here. All copters cause knockdown or none.

 

Kogake can't copter.

[Aggh]

You may get up but the odds of not dying from the follow up stun are quite low

Only if you haven't done an ounce of damage to the guy before he knocked you down.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Aggh

[Burnthesteak87]

Bring other weapons to Kogake's level or totally nerf Kogake's damage. Damage and high speed is stupidly imbalanced.
Also check the Aerial attack range...

[Rexlars]

Kogake can't copter.

 

Yes it can. It doesn't take you as far as say, Bo Prime, but you still go faster & further than if you were simply sprinting. 

[Dojutrek]

Kogake can't copter.

 

Actually, the Aerial Attack can be used as a Pseudo-Copter. The Slide Attack however has a Knockdown which for all intents and purposes is too abuse-able. 

[armedpoop]

The kogake can chain stun because of how fast you can get the slide attacks out. Dont nerf the damage of them, change how the slide attack hits, remove the knockdown, change to stagger or something else. 

[Burnthesteak87]

The kogake can chain stun because of how fast you can get the slide attacks out. Dont nerf the damage of them, change how the slide attack hits, remove the knockdown, change to stagger or something else. 

Sorry but the damage has to be toned down. Or the attack speed. One of those.

You can't have better attack speed and killing a target with the same number of attacks of a slower weapon. Over the knockdown also.

That's called Imbalance.

[armedpoop]

Sorry but the damage has to be toned down. Or the attack speed. One of those.

You can't have better attack speed and killing a target with the same number of attacks of a slower weapon. Over the knockdown also.

That's called Imbalance.

Its a speed weapon that does appropriate damage. Just change the slide attack and nobody would be complaining anymore. 

[Kontrollo]

Kogake can be annoying. But they're only really a problem if you don't have a Handspring. And there are several strategies against it:

 

If you get knocked down once (with Handspring), you have enough time to roll to the side before the next one hits. Even if it does, the animation lock prevents you from going down again. This gives you free time to shoot the clown.

 

Rhino and Excalibur can use their first ability against it. They're far more devastating and usually easier to land against Kogake kick spammers.

 

Mag is a bit harder, you have to be able to land your pull so it staggers them. Better keep your distance, though. Other melee weapons are faster at coptering anyway. And if you can grab enough energy for a Bullet Attractor, that's a death sentence right there.

 

Frost can use his Freeze and shoot them, works pretty well.

 

Volt probably just presses 4. Haven't really used him yet.

[armedpoop]

Kogake can be annoying. But they're only really a problem if you don't have a Handspring. And there are several strategies against it:

 

If you get knocked down once (with Handspring), you have enough time to roll to the side before the next one hits. Even if it does, the animation lock prevents you from going down again. This gives you free time to shoot the clown.

 

Rhino and Excalibur can use their first ability against it. They're far more devastating and usually easier to land against Kogake kick spammers.

 

Mag is a bit harder, you have to be able to land your pull so it staggers them. Better keep your distance, though. Other melee weapons are faster at coptering anyway. And if you can grab enough energy for a Bullet Attractor, that's a death sentence right there.

 

Frost can use his Freeze and shoot them, works pretty well.

 

Volt probably just presses 4. Haven't really used him yet.

Also, dex dakra quick melee has stability on swings. So you could just swing away. 

[Burnthesteak87]

Its a speed weapon that does appropriate damage. Just change the slide attack and nobody would be complaining anymore. 

Probably you fail to understand that the superior damage and the superior attack speed allows for quick bursts that ridiculize whatever weapon which isn't outdamaging Kogakes nor it can't respond to its attacks.

In a balanced PVP, something that is too much fast, shouldn't hit that hard with no other repercussions.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Burnthesteak87