Kogake Cheese Is Getting Ridiculous

[faustias]

guys add each other and go for a match ok ? then u will see if its enough time or not. then post what u found out

I'm betting 500k Credits, siding that "Handspring doesn't help enough" team

[.Talia.]

As a Kogake user, i say that Handspring doesn't help people as much as it should. I have more than enough time to one shot them with the Lex, or use a 1st ability. I can also stun-lock people with Handspring simply by spaming spin attacks over and over until i kill them. Let's not forget that sweet invincibility frame on the spin attack, which makes me immune to stuns and staggers while i spam knockdowns as i walk around the map.

[Aggh]

As a Kogake user, i say that Handspring doesn't help people as much as it should. I have more than enough time to one shot them with the Lex, or use a 1st ability. I can also stun-lock people with Handspring simply by spaming spin attacks over and over until i kill them. Let's not forget that sweet invincibility frame on the spin attack, which makes me immune to stuns and staggers while i spam knockdowns as i walk around the map.

Think you're conflating stability for invincibility.  I've killed plenty of people that are spamming the spin attack.  If people are getting stun locked, that's their fault for not coptering away and just shooting you.  For someone to come in with a kogake and stun you, you have to let them cover a lot of ground before they're in range for a knockdown.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Aggh

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

As someone who uses kogake regularly: I'll go ahead and say that handspring doesn't help people nearly enough

 

As someone who uses both kogake and handspring, I'll say that unless you literally have some way to kill them before they even hit the ground, handspring all but makes kogake useless.  If you're firing a gun or using a melee and you get knocked down with handspring on, unless you got knocked while you were already in the air (and thus have to fall a bit to hit the ground) you will literally not even suffer an interrupt in your automatic firing it happens so fast.

 

You literally only see 1-3 frames of someone bouncing up if you knock them down while they have handspring installed.  If anything, it's TOO effective.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

  I call BS.  I've yet to meet someone that actually kill you before you can get up on a handspring and I've also killed plenty of people coming off a handspring.  Surefooted also helps.

 

^This.  The only times I've killed people who have handspring equipped by knocking them down with kogake are:

 

#1:  I knocked their azz off a cliff and they died before hitting the ground.

#2:  I had a Lex equipped, which currently does 140 damage and, if you're really fast, can be used to pretty much finish someone after knocking them down.

#3:  I got insanely lucky /w excellent reflexes and managed to plant a finisher on them before their falling body even hit the ground.... and they tried to stand there and aim and shoot me.  Yes, people walk out of my ground finishers constantly with handspring.  I'm not even laggy, they literally just walk out before it even begins.

 

Having Handspring on means the instant you touch the floor you will be on your feet in about 0.05 seconds.  Not even joking.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

You may get up but the odds of not dying from the follow up stun are quite low

 

Outright bullS#&$.  I get killed more often by people with handspring shooting me in the face with a latron before I can even follow up the knockdown.

 

 

Kogake can't copter.

 

It doesn't spin, but the ground covered and the speed at which it can move are quite equivalent to the copter from, say, a fang prime.  I found them to be pretty much exactly the same in fact.

 

 

Probably you fail to understand that the superior damage and the superior attack speed allows for quick bursts that ridiculize whatever weapon which isn't outdamaging Kogakes nor it can't respond to its attacks.

In a balanced PVP, something that is too much fast, shouldn't hit that hard with no other repercussions.

 

Bull.  Hint:  Frost/Rhino/Chroma or Volt using speed will own everything else in flat out melee.  Chroma is prooobably the strongest actually due to the high armor.  Kogake's DPS potential is not superior to any of the other good weapons.  For Instance, Fang Prime and Bo Prime will both generally rip you to shreds even faster, any sort of skana will stunlock you, and a Gram will literally one to two shot you with normal attacks, depending on whether or not it gets that lucky crit and/or melee headshot.  I haven't had too much experience with the other weapons, since no one seems to use them in CtC.

 

 

I'm betting 500k Credits, siding that "Handspring doesn't help enough" team

 

Have you used it?  Apparently not.  I've been on both ends.  for several hours now.  It actually helps so much I kind of think Handspring needs to be nerfed rather than the Kogake, because other weapon stances and jump kicks also have knockdown, as well as jump attacks, all of which are nerfed by literally 85-100% by Handspring users.  Go ahead and sneak up on someone with Handspring and jump attack them, and tell me if you could even see them fall down.  I'd give you 50-50 odds that you were literally unable to see them fall down because they were up before you could even realize they were falling.

 

 

As a Kogake user, i say that Handspring doesn't help people as much as it should. I have more than enough time to one shot them with the Lex, or use a 1st ability. I can also stun-lock people with Handspring simply by spaming spin attacks over and over until i kill them. Let's not forget that sweet invincibility frame on the spin attack, which makes me immune to stuns and staggers while i spam knockdowns as i walk around the map.

 

I'd say it was true about the invincibility frames yesterday morning, however today I played against at least two people who were CONSTANTLY shooting me to death while I ran and even dodged with their Latron Primes and Bratons.  I can tell you that as of today, there is no invincibility frame whatsoever, although it still appears that spin attacks give you CC immunity frames.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Vitalis_Inamorta

[-Jack.Of.Blades-]

^This.  The only times I've killed people who have handspring equipped by knocking them down with kogake are:

 

#1:  I knocked their azz off a cliff and they died before hitting the ground.

#2:  I had a Lex equipped, which currently does 140 damage and, if you're really fast, can be used to pretty much finish someone after knocking them down.

#3:  I got insanely lucky /w excellent reflexes and managed to plant a finisher on them before their falling body even hit the ground.... and they tried to stand there and aim and shoot me.  Yes, people walk out of my ground finishers constantly with handspring.  I'm not even laggy, they literally just walk out before it even begins.

 

Having Handspring on means the instant you touch the floor you will be on your feet in about 0.05 seconds.  Not even joking.

I can second this being a kogake user myself.Handspring is amazing at making the kogake almost useless.

though that fraction of a second is why I use it to help line up a CQB shot with my arrows but as long as you don't stand still when you get up I will miss most of the times(most people start shooting from the spot they fell and Don't move making shots easy for CQB)

Edited March 29, 2015 by -Jack.Of.Blades-

[Intalus]

Are people not aware that you can escape out of the knockdown if you have handspring and time it right?  Sorry, but mindlessly spamming slide attacks isn't going to get you out of every situation.

 

 

 Its worse than the Volt Overload spam. 

Volt's Overload deals damage regardless of where you are vertically... meaning you can't jump over it, or you'll die to being above or below it.   

Edited March 30, 2015 by Intalus

[rockscl]

using a mod to counter a particular weapon´s dominance looks is a forced decision, either you dont take the weapon or the mod and you are 50% granted being underpowered, this is not how options work, the handspring animation should be innate and tied to mechanics on the victim´s side, in my opinion

[imaxium]

Made a little video for those of you that dont believe the kogake stun-lock is real. Feel bad for the people I trolled in order to make this video. I do not play like this normally, its way too cheap imo. Chroma with the Bo Prime is also super cheesy. 

 

FYI: good example is near the end of video: https://vid.me/21zW

Edited March 30, 2015 by imaxium

[Rexlars]

Made a little video for those of you that dont believe the kogake stun-lock is real. Feel bad for the people I trolled in order to make this video. I do not play like this normally, its way too cheap imo. Chroma with the Bo Prime is also super cheesy. 

 

FYI: good example is near the end of video: https://vid.me/21zW

 

L - O - motherfcking - L