Lets Nerf The Nerf On Synoid Gammacor

[shut]

Thats a bad argument. If you have to switch because a weapon runs out of ammo too fast, well, its more logical to get a better one.

Its a bad weapon.

"Wow, I can't sustain myself if I try to do a Survival mission using nothing but Bladestorm. Bladestorm is clearly a piece of junk that can't kill anything because I keep running out of energy and I don't want to use my guns during recovery."

The Synoid and other ammo-inefficient weapons (Amprex, etc) can be thought of in a similar way. They're beastly as hell, and the crappy ammo economy doesn't change the fact that they're beastly as hell. It just means that they have to "cool down" between uses, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It just means that you're going to have to use something else during that downtime if you want to pull your weight, which is only going to be an obvious dealbreaker if you want to use one weapon and one weapon only (or if you're ranking up your primary or something).

Use god-tier gun. Run out of ammo. Switch to a solid all-rounder while ammo recovers. Switch back to god-tier gun. Repeat. (Alternatively, save your god-weapon until things get really hairy and you need an easy way out.) This is a perfectly viable option; it's just the regular gameplay that we all know with medium-length bursts of godliness in between.

Edited March 27, 2015 by SortaRandom

[LazyKnight]

Use god-tier gun. Run out of ammo. Switch to a solid all-rounder while ammo recovers. Switch back to god-tier gun. Repeat. (Alternatively, save your god-weapon until things get really hairy and you need an easy way out.) This is a perfectly viable option; it's just the regular gameplay that we all know with medium-length bursts of godliness in between.

No, just no. If you're in a situation where Synoid is running out it would never be worth to re-quip it. It's either use ammo pads or do not bother, as it would take 30 ammo picks-up just to refile (since your not getting the mutation mods benefit it would take awhile) and it burns so much ammo per second.

 

Brakk and Marelok along with several other higher base damage weapons are just objectively superior at this point. if your using Synoid at point were the NPCs take a second to kill it is junk tier. The only exception is when your using ammo pads and other weapons get FAR more benefit, this is an fact that can not be disputed.  

 

Also, stop with comparing to Amprex it's AoE and has better economy than boltor prime if used properly 

Edited March 27, 2015 by LazyKnight

[shut]

No, just no. If your in a situation where Synoid is running out it would never be worth to re-quip it.

So you're saying that you'll just stick with a lower-damage weapon at all times instead? As opposed to using the lower-damage weapon in general situations but switching to something far more powerful for medium-length bursts? The only downside to doing this is the weapon switching time, which shouldn't even be much of an issue unless you're trying to switch back and forth every time a single Heavy appears or something.

Well, the other downside is that you're stuck with an all-rounder as a primary and a less-efficient-but-more-powerful all-rounder as a secondary rather than having two efficient weapons that are specialized for different roles, but that's a preference thing.

Edited March 27, 2015 by SortaRandom

[bunitchu]

No, just no. If you're in a situation where Synoid is running out it would never be worth to re-quip it. It's either use ammo pads or do not bother, as it would take 30 ammo picks-up just to refile (since your not getting the mutation mods benefit it would take awhile) and it burns so much ammo per second.

 

Brakk and Marelok along with several other higher base damage weapons are just objectively superior at this point. if your using Synoid at point were the NPCs take a second to kill it is junk tier. The only exception is when your using ammo pads and other weapons get FAR more benefit, this is an fact that can not be disputed.  

 

Also, stop with comparing to Amprex it's AoE and has better economy than boltor prime if used properly 

 

 

sorry man, but you are revolving the scenario around a "sinoid-only" gameplay and you are not considering the existence of other weapons equipped to fill in while you recharge sinoid. The game does not spin around "i will only use 1 weapon" ideology and if you chose to do it, its on your own volition and game shouldnt be balanced around that.

 

Sinoid is still good, its just not as spammable as before and you need to pick the right moment to pull it. If you want to just use it 100% of the time, it wont last, just like any weapon that consumes about the same amount of weapon.

 

Other seccondaries are superior to it? So what? Vaykor marelok and rakta are superior to my lex prime by a mile, and even so i will still have my lex prime equipped because even though its not the best of the best its still viable and i like the weapon a lot, and believe me, i potatoed and 4 formaed my lex before the gammacor took the nerf bat, so i had a vastly overpowered weapon already formaed and ready for use, and i still went through the expense of setting up lex for a seccondary.

 

Play with what you like in a way that it works and you will be happy. Just because your toy isnt the best doesnt mean its not good, so if you really like your sinoid, acnowledge it´s new state and play it in a way that reduces it´s new setback.

Edited March 27, 2015 by bunitchu

[HandsomeSorcerer]

thats a bad argument, because if u know it will burn ammo quickly, you save it for when it´s needed rather than spam it untill depletion to the gather ammo.

 

I am more of a lex prime / Vaykor marelok user, but even on the gold era of the sinoid, i would only pop it when i needed to melt down bubbles from nullifiers (since i like using snipers/bows for primary and those arent the best call for the task) of if i needed to clean a small arch of enemies for breathing room when things would go messy on a defense/survival.

 

Given that gameplay, i barelly notice the ammo consuption because i recover what i spent 20x over before i have to pull a sinoid again, specially if i have ammo mutation on it.

 

If you stop to compare, nearly all the full auto secondaries bash on that same wall and like it was pointed before, no enough crying because thats how a full auto weapon goes, which requires you to use them wisely.

 

The way you guys complain i can only immagine you guys go with only sinoid equipped on missions, or treat is as a primary, burn it all out and then pick your primary that for some reason became a secondary on your minds.

 

The reason secondary weapons get that name is because they are just that, seccondary, a spare weapon for a diferent utility that the primary can´t cover.

You are missing the point on what primary and secondaries are. A primary weapon, is a primary weapon. Not as in your main weapon, but your weapon slot.

 

You have primary weapons, like launchers. They annot be considered "Primary", they are mainly support weapons, for specific cases.

And one more thing, secondary weapons can hold their own. I can take a marelok, gammacor(Not synoid), detron, despair and so on and never run out of ammo or utility.

 

The ideal scenario is you focus one build and play. Melee only, melee with shotgun or osmething liek that.

 

The point is, I would prefer I could use the sgammacor as a primary weapon, while leveling up other stuff. Right now, thats not possible and in general, makes the sgammacor a subpar weapon.

Even the cestras are a better choice now in Void missions. YOu can at least use them to take down nullifier shields.

 

 

"Wow, I can't sustain myself if I try to do a Survival mission using nothing but Bladestorm. Bladestorm is clearly a piece of junk that can't kill anything because I keep running out of energy and I don't want to use my guns during recovery."

The Synoid and other ammo-inefficient weapons (Amprex, etc) can be thought of in a similar way. They're beastly as hell, and the crappy ammo economy doesn't change the fact that they're beastly as hell. It just means that they have to "cool down" between uses, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It just means that you're going to have to use something else during that downtime if you want to pull your weight, which is only going to be an obvious dealbreaker if you want to use one weapon and one weapon only (or if you're ranking up your primary or something).

Use god-tier gun. Run out of ammo. Switch to a solid all-rounder while ammo recovers. Switch back to god-tier gun. Repeat. (Alternatively, save your god-weapon until things get really hairy and you need an easy way out.) This is a perfectly viable option; it's just the regular gameplay that we all know with medium-length bursts of godliness in between.

I agree

However, this problem is there for all high firerate secondaries. At least for Amprex, that thing das chain shots.

 

However, I still believe for a syndicate weapon, the sgammacor right now isnt good enough. I need primed ammo mutatuon and pistol scav. For my favorite primary, the synapse, I dont need to care even for a single ammo mod, because its just ok in ammo effciency.

[LazyKnight]

So you're saying that you'll just stick with a lower-damage weapon at all times instead? 

No, I would take higher damage per hit, lower sustained DPS. When did I say low damage? I want high damage, yet you are equating damage with DPS again (why are you in a balance topic if want to confuse that issue?). 

 

It's not a preference thing, if the NPCs are a low level, the NPCs will have an TTK of nearly the same for Synoid and Akjagara (pick a decent side-arm). If the NPCs are a high level than the Synoid will burn its ammo up and be useless.

 

.

[DawnFalcon]

I swapped my fire-rate mods for damage ones. It's still top 3 for a secondary.

[bunitchu]

You are missing the point on what primary and secondaries are. A primary weapon, is a primary weapon. Not as in your main weapon, but your weapon slot.

 

You have primary weapons, like launchers. They annot be considered "Primary", they are mainly support weapons, for specific cases.

And one more thing, secondary weapons can hold their own. I can take a marelok, gammacor(Not synoid), detron, despair and so on and never run out of ammo or utility.

 

The ideal scenario is you focus one build and play. Melee only, melee with shotgun or osmething liek that.

 

The point is, I would prefer I could use the sgammacor as a primary weapon, while leveling up other stuff. Right now, thats not possible and in general, makes the sgammacor a subpar weapon.

Even the cestras are a better choice now in Void missions. YOu can at least use them to take down nullifier shields.

 

 

There is the thing, game should not be balanced around personal preferences.You want to go solo with sinoid, it´s your call, but you know the risk to it, but balancing a weapon overa very specific scenario like " i will only use this and screw the rest" isnt the way to go either.

 

Sinoid isnt weaker, just more ammo hungry and the game has it´s ways to counter that, the main one being "bring a seccond gun". So i approve the nerf, make the weapon more situational rather than just fulltime faceroll and more weapons could follow the example.

[tr4nz]

Thank god i came to update 16 other than the last years... har harhar

[bl4ckhunter]

There is the thing, game should not be balanced around personal preferences.You want to go solo with sinoid, it´s your call, but you know the risk to it, but balancing a weapon overa very specific scenario like " i will only use this and screw the rest" isnt the way to go either.

 

Sinoid isnt weaker, just more ammo hungry and the game has it´s ways to counter that, the main one being "bring a seccond gun". So i approve the nerf, make the weapon more situational rather than just fulltime faceroll and more weapons could follow the example.

except that the telos akbolto has lower ttk and hundredfold ammo efficiency and sindacate weapons are supposed to be sidegrades, before you go around saying stuff scan a bombard or something, spawn some of them in the simulacrum and see for yourself, the sinoid is a piece of crap and effectively it's weaker than it's normal counterpart

[bunitchu]

except that the telos akbolto has lower ttk and hundredfold ammo efficiency and sindacate weapons are supposed to be sidegrades, before you go around saying stuff scan a bombard or something, spawn some of them in the simulacrum and see for yourself, the sinoid is a piece of crap and effectively it's weaker than it's normal counterpart

 

who cares if another weapon is better than urs? If it works, use it, you dont need to be with the best of the best of the best equipped to perform well endgame.

 

Sinoid is still good and the existence of better weapons doesnt mean you should just trash it or come to the forums ask for buffs just because you cant faceroll with it anymore.

[bl4ckhunter]

who cares if another weapon is better than urs? If it works, use it, you dont need to be with the best of the best of the best equipped to perform well endgame.

 

Sinoid is still good and the existence of better weapons doesnt mean you should just trash it or come to the forums ask for buffs just because you cant faceroll with it anymore.

aside from the fact that the sinoid is an utter piece of junk for anything lvl 35+ and that IT DOESN'T WORK AT ALL after uranus  when gammacor>synoid gammacor you know that there's something deeply wrong, besides syndacate weapons MUST be sidegrades becouse otherwise the whole sistem loses any meaning

[Neogeo]

There is the thing, game should not be balanced around personal preferences.You want to go solo with sinoid, it´s your call, but you know the risk to it, but balancing a weapon overa very specific scenario like " i will only use this and screw the rest" isnt the way to go either.

Sinoid isnt weaker, just more ammo hungry and the game has it´s ways to counter that, the main one being "bring a seccond gun". So i approve the nerf, make the weapon more situational rather than just fulltime faceroll and more weapons could follow the example.

I will only use Boltor Prime and screw the rest work fine. I will only use Soma Prime and screw the rest work also. I will only use <any top tier primary>...well you get the idea. Why should Synoid be any different? Just because it fit into secondary slot doesn't mean squat. Primary or secondary is just a name for different weapon slot. It doesn't serve any different purpose. How would you know its his personal preference? In my eyes, your playstyle is THE personal preference. Nobody I play with use secondary weapon to complement their primary. They either use only primary or their secondary weapon throughout the match. There is zero reason to switch weapon if your main weapon is capable of handling the mission.

[superbot34]

just use the vaykor marelock or telos akbolto weapons, they were better than the synoid before the nerf and far better now. 

[Genoscythe]

I'm Pretty sure the brakk was nerfed.

Also, how can you compare these guns. The clip size is no where near the same.

Brakk got the damage falloff long ago, however its uber damage is the same on close range (arond where synoid gammacord does not deal anymore damage at all). Also Brakks ultra-short reloadtime makes it able fire constantly, while its ammo eficiency is epic.

[SquirmyBurrito]

If only we could use a weapon while we gather ammo for sinoid...oh wait...

 

If you have to switch weapons, why even bother using the Synoid Gammacor? Would you be happy if I gave you a top-tier PC but only allowed you to play it for 2 minutes before making you switch to using a toaster-tier laptop for 10 minutes and this cycle continued anytime you wanted to use the top-tier PC? Don't like computers? Okay what if I gave you the automobile of your dreams, but for every one kilometer you drove that vehicle, you had to drive 10 miles in a old moldy van with no power steering and brakes in bad need of replacing? The point is that having to stop having fun every minute to switch to another weapon while you wait for your fun-gun to 'recharge' is a terrible idea.

 

thats a bad argument, because if u know it will burn ammo quickly, you save it for when it´s needed rather than spam it untill depletion to the gather ammo.

 

I am more of a lex prime / Vaykor marelok user, but even on the gold era of the sinoid, i would only pop it when i needed to melt down bubbles from nullifiers (since i like using snipers/bows for primary and those arent the best call for the task) of if i needed to clean a small arch of enemies for breathing room when things would go messy on a defense/survival.

 

Given that gameplay, i barelly notice the ammo consuption because i recover what i spent 20x over before i have to pull a sinoid again, specially if i have ammo mutation on it.

 

If you stop to compare, nearly all the full auto secondaries bash on that same wall and like it was pointed before, no enough crying because thats how a full auto weapon goes, which requires you to use them wisely.

 

The way you guys complain i can only immagine you guys go with only sinoid equipped on missions, or treat is as a primary, burn it all out and then pick your primary that for some reason became a secondary on your minds.

 

The reason secondary weapons get that name is because they are just that, seccondary, a spare weapon for a diferent utility that the primary can´t cover.

 

If the Synoid Gammacor has to be relegated to 'heavy weapon' it needs to be given its own damn slot so that I can carry a real secondary weapon in the secondary weapon slot. Since when does regular use count as spam? Because the SG runs out of ammo during regular use. You don't have to TRY to run out of ammo to find your SG empty.

 

Good for you, you didn't use the weapon much. Some of us liked to main the SG, just like how some players like to main the brakk or the V. Marelok.

 

Of all the full auto secondaries, only eight (I'm assuming the kohmak is of a similar tier since I haven't bothered building it) of the full auto secondaries have similar firerates, and of those eight only the five dual pistol bullet-hoses surpass the SG's 15 rounds per second firerate. Of those five dual pistols, all five are considered varying degrees of terrible when compared to top-tier secondaries. Mentioning them in an attempt to further your argument was a terrible idea. People rarely complain about those weapons because they're all old (old enough for DE to have already blown them off) and not top-tier. They're also not viable weapons so people rarely use them for more than a brief break from their regular primary/melee weaponplay.

 

Why shouldn't we be able to do that when DE gave us the ability to do so and even said we'd be able to do that? That was the entire purpose of this option being added with the sword alone update. Secondary USED to mean that, now it is just a vestigial name left over from an era when primary weapons ruled the DPS charts. Now secondary weapons are by far the better weapons.

 

sorry man, but you are revolving the scenario around a "sinoid-only" gameplay and you are not considering the existence of other weapons equipped to fill in while you recharge sinoid. The game does not spin around "i will only use 1 weapon" ideology and if you chose to do it, its on your own volition and game shouldnt be balanced around that.

 

Sinoid is still good, its just not as spammable as before and you need to pick the right moment to pull it. If you want to just use it 100% of the time, it wont last, just like any weapon that consumes about the same amount of weapon.

 

Other seccondaries are superior to it? So what? Vaykor marelok and rakta are superior to my lex prime by a mile, and even so i will still have my lex prime equipped because even though its not the best of the best its still viable and i like the weapon a lot, and believe me, i potatoed and 4 formaed my lex before the gammacor took the nerf bat, so i had a vastly overpowered weapon already formaed and ready for use, and i still went through the expense of setting up lex for a seccondary.

 

Play with what you like in a way that it works and you will be happy. Just because your toy isnt the best doesnt mean its not good, so if you really like your sinoid, acnowledge it´s new state and play it in a way that reduces it´s new setback.

 

If you include other elements in the argument, you've tainted any validity your example could have had. When arguing whether or not Vauban is overpowered, you do not operated under the assumption that a radial disarm loki is also present.

 

The Synoid Gammacor is crap. I doubt anyone really cares about your Lex Prime in a discussion about the overnerf on the SG.

 

I'd LOVE to play with what I like in a way that it works... the problem is that the only way the SG works (when playing against harder enemies) is if I constantly STOP playing with it and use something else or spam ammo restores. Neither option is fun. That's my problem with this overnerf. It stops me from playing with the weapon and is therefore inhibiting my ability to have fun. I used the weapon because I liked its looks and its ammo economy. The DPS was just icing on the cake. I wouldn't have cared about it having its DPS nerfed down to the level of the other syndicate weapons. But I absolutely despise ammo economy nerfs.

 

who cares if another weapon is better than urs? If it works, use it, you dont need to be with the best of the best of the best equipped to perform well endgame.

 

Sinoid is still good and the existence of better weapons doesnt mean you should just trash it or come to the forums ask for buffs just because you cant faceroll with it anymore.

 

Being better isn't what matters. Its the fact that those other weapons can actually be used with regularity whereas the Synoid Gammacor is practically a weapon with a cooldown.

[cyrus106]

Synoid vs Telos Akbolto for comparison as requested. Note there is a typo and I meant to typo "300 ammo reserve" not "400"

 

Edited March 28, 2015 by cyrus106

[bl4ckhunter]

Synoid vs Telos Akbolto for comparison as requested. Note there is a typo and I meant to typo "300 ammo reserve" not "400"

 

lad you're using a carrier with vacuum AND a primed mutation, you did pick up an enormous amount of ammunitons and you consumed like 4-5 clips (150*4= 600 ammo at the very least), in a  just count how many times you reloaded, if you didn't have any ammo lying around beforehand you would've been left almost without ammo at the end of it, that's simply not going to work in a high tier defense or a survival

Edited March 28, 2015 by bl4ckhunter

[gvidzix]

I am sorry I didn't read all posts.

But my opinion:

I took the Synnoid Gammacor (with my 4 formas) to jackal (he was lvl 35),

and well with all the ammo i couldn't take him down, as to where Brakk, Vaykor Marelok, Telos AKbolto could do it.

 

Before the nerf Synnoid Gammacor melted Jackal in seconds,

I am not saying to return it to the previous state, but:

- maybe decrease ammo consumption.

- or increase damage to 50-60.

 

So for me it isn't balanced, four forma Synnoid Gammacor which is meant to be one of the best weapons (because syndicate weapon ...) with full ammo can't take down Jackal.

 

Either way, I just use other weapons until another beast comes ...

Edited March 28, 2015 by gvidzix

[Revel72]

So you want the nerf away to have your "This game is too easy" game play back. In your dreams. Go get game what you can mod for that kind stuff. In here. New hurricane will be tearing down the weapons what are too good to make them. Equally good middle of others.

 

I have already seen too much of content what are OP hurting everybody in the game community. And I want that to end at least in here. League of Legends has left me deep wounds about OP content and I don't want to see anything like that in here.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Revel72

[cyrus106]

lad you're using a carrier with vacuum AND a primed mutation, you did pick up an enormous amount of ammunitons and you consumed like 4-5 clips (150*4= 600 ammo at the very least), in a just count how many times you reloaded, if you didn't have any ammo lying around beforehand you would've been left almost without ammo at the end of it, that's simply not going to work in a high tier defense or a survival

Alright bud, I see that you havent actually tested the gun with an ammo mutator. Time to educate you. Gonna do a 20 minute t4 survival with just synoid to prove you wrong

Edited March 28, 2015 by cyrus106

[SquirmyBurrito]

Synoid vs Telos Akbolto for comparison as requested. Note there is a typo and I meant to typo "300 ammo reserve" not "400"

 

 

Did you do the Telos Akbolto test first/did you run another test before the one you chose to upload? I ask because there is an awful lot of ammo sitting around before you even started shooting which would certainly taint the results. Going by the kill at a little before the 1 minute mark where you sat there shooting at its head (which is best case scenario when it comes to how much ammo is being consumed) it took you around 40 shots to kill it. So unless you're picking up at least 40 ammo per enemy you kill, you aren't going to be able to sustain the Synoid Gammacor for long.

 

Edit: I just spawned 10 level 40 bombards in while making sure that there was no ammo on the ground from a previous run and I ended up with 159 total ammo left. I used the same method you did with the bastille + headshots.

 

So you want the nerf away to have your "This game is too easy" game play back. In your dreams. Go get game what you can mod for that kind stuff. In here. New hurricane will be tearing down the weapons what are too good to make them. Equally good middle of others.

 

I have already seen too much of content what are OP hurting everybody in the game community. And I want that to end at least in here. League of Legends has left me deep wounds about OP content and I don't want to see anything like that in here.

 

 

What the hell did you just try to say?

Edited March 28, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[Deathman_Kenshi]

I just slap mutation on it. It has more than enough dps to use mutation with. And it's really good for burst damage. 

Shoot synoid, switch to primary, regain ammo through mutation, switch back to synoid, repeat. 

Lol BS since when mutation works on weapon which is holstered ?

[cyrus106]

Did you do the Telos Akbolto test first/did you run another test before the one you chose to upload? I ask because there is an awful lot of ammo sitting around before you even started shooting which would certainly taint the results. Going by the kill at a little before the 1 minute mark where you sat there shooting at its head (which is best case scenario when it comes to how much ammo is being consumed) it took you around 40 shots to kill it. So unless you're picking up at least 40 ammo per enemy you kill, you aren't going to be able to sustain the Synoid Gammacor for long.

 

 

 

What the hell did you just try to say?

It really doesn't matter, because I'm uploading a video of a 20 minute t4 survival solo with nothing but the gammacor, and guess what? Never ran out of ammo. Will edit video into this post prob

Edited March 28, 2015 by cyrus106

[SquirmyBurrito]

It really doesn't matter, because I'm uploading a video of a 20 minute t4 survival solo with nothing but the gammacor, and guess what? Never ran out of ammo

 

But it really does because it means your test was flawed and thus the end results aren't usable. If killing 10 level 40 bombard is enough to leave me with only 159 ammo (this is after picking up all the ammo they dropped), that paints a pretty clear picture of just how bad the SG is now.

Edited March 28, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito