Stalker, Teshin, Lotus - The Guardians

[Morec0]

Generally agreed on all points. I won't deny the main crux of why my fic stopped where it has is moving to the wider 'what's really going on'. Stalker is...a useful tool to lead some questions that could lead more...open routes.

 

As for Ruk, he's mostly appreciated for the rather apt 'Just mercenaries?' deal. Won't deny he's problematic but...he sure has entertaining dialogue. Vor's admittedly a similar boat, in as much as he's...interesting. Though Vor's kind of pitiable in a way; seeker of knowledge who basically paid everything he had to glean but small truths.

 

Sure, his new status as the only known Energy Being in setting is interesting, but even then...it raises the question of what is above the Neural Sentry to be guiding Vor. Course, the Neural Sentry itself is of questionable status these days: Is it a type of Cephalon? Older than Ordis' alleged Class 2 per Simaris' quip, or distinct from them entirely?

 

Apologies for the general digression, at any rate.

 

Oh, not denying his entertainment value at all. I find all Grineer bosses (that have their updates) entertaining in one fashion or another. But Ruk's fanbase always seems to be wanting to try and paint him as something that the rest of the Grineer are not, a heroic champion who will switch sides and join us at any moment. It's a little odd.

 

I'd say Vor's guiding Vor. At this point he's acting of his own accord, no Queens, no one else getting in his way - even our "killing" him in the towers is merely temporary.

 

As for what the Sentry is, some kind of link to Cephalon is likely, but I'd say it's nothing more than an advanced security system, cleaning and protecting the towers from intruders - the Grineer, Corpus, or us. Whatever it does to make the corrupted is unknown, as of now, but will be interesting to see. I'd wager it being something newer - and therefore more advanced/powerful - than Ordis, though.

[Blakrana]

Oh, not denying his entertainment value at all. I find all Grineer bosses (that have their updates) entertaining in one fashion or another. But Ruk's fanbase always seems to be wanting to try and paint him as something that the rest of the Grineer are not, a heroic champion who will switch sides and join us at any moment. It's a little odd.

 

I'd say Vor's guiding Vor. At this point he's acting of his own accord, no Queens, no one else getting in his way - even our "killing" him in the towers is merely temporary.

 

As for what the Sentry is, some kind of link to Cephalon is likely, but I'd say it's nothing more than an advanced security system, cleaning and protecting the towers from intruders - the Grineer, Corpus, or us. Whatever it does to make the corrupted is unknown, as of now, but will be interesting to see. I'd wager it being something newer - and therefore more advanced/powerful - than Ordis, though.

 

Ruk I hold as 'of the Grineer, I can respect you...but you're still a problem' sort of case; he might not shoot you in the back, but he's not going to jump sides. Fun to fight though. Vor is kind of pitiable in as much as all he really wanted out of his life was to get some answers to his Orokin questions. Did he get them from the Janus key? Maybe...he sure as hell picked up a new way to speak at any rate.

 

As for the Neural Sentry...it is interesting. According to Simaris, Ordis evidently has similar functional abilities to himself, such as compiling a blueprint out of the data acquired in the Chroma quest, which is an interesting trait. Although it's still a matter of curiosity whether those white 'trees' have anything to do with it.

 

Shame asking questions really hard don't open up hidden Void portals in game so we can go poke things with pointy metal sticks in the name of Lore and/or Science!

[MortySGR]

Teshin was an orokin who forsoke the emperors an revel maybe?

[Blakrana]

Teshin was an orokin who forsoke the emperors an revel maybe?

 

He was opposed to it. He's clearly not thrilled the Orokin were wiped out, and by extension he's not thrilled with the Lotus.

 

Hence the Conclave for those who seek a different path, really.

[Morec0]

Ruk I hold as 'of the Grineer, I can respect you...but you're still a problem' sort of case; he might not shoot you in the back, but he's not going to jump sides. Fun to fight though. Vor is kind of pitiable in as much as all he really wanted out of his life was to get some answers to his Orokin questions. Did he get them from the Janus key? Maybe...he sure as hell picked up a new way to speak at any rate.

 

As for the Neural Sentry...it is interesting. According to Simaris, Ordis evidently has similar functional abilities to himself, such as compiling a blueprint out of the data acquired in the Chroma quest, which is an interesting trait. Although it's still a matter of curiosity whether those white 'trees' have anything to do with it.

 

Shame asking questions really hard don't open up hidden Void portals in game so we can go poke things with pointy metal sticks in the name of Lore and/or Science!

 

Indeed, Ordis' ability to generate Warframe blueprint components is indeed an overlooked by fascinating tidbit of that quest. Though (and sadly I'm not able to research this due to lack of wiki updates) is that a trait he himself had and recovered, or something that Simaris taught him to do? After all, Simaris was the first one to give us such a BP at the very start of the quest.

 

As for the trees: their trees, pretty trees, what do you want?

 

Teshin was an orokin who forsoke the emperors an revel maybe?

 

Well, again it comes down to how he speaks about them seperates himself from them - "I failed the Orokin but I will preserve their legacy. The Tenno". What exactly the Orokin were - aside from rulers - in comparison to the rest of humanity is unknown. There was a time I considered that maybe "Orokin" was just what humanity called itself at the time, but this kind of information and statements really seem to overturn just a possibility.

 

He was opposed to it. He's clearly not thrilled the Orokin were wiped out, and by extension he's not thrilled with the Lotus.

 

Hence the Conclave for those who seek a different path, really.

 

And this.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Morec0

[Zarozian]

Merco!

 

Underline you quotes! Underline key points! So that they are easier to read!

 

Also I believe the Tenno and these Guardians were very close with each other. I am guessing the Tenno spared only the Stalker and the Guardians, which is why we see Teshin and the Stalker alive today. o -o

[Morec0]

Merco!

 

Underline you quotes! Underline key points! So that they are easier to read!

 

Also I believe the Tenno and these Guardians were very close with each other. I am guessing the Tenno spared only the Stalker and the Guardians, which is why we see Teshin and the Stalker alive today. o -o

 

That's actually not a bad idea... Though it sounds like a lot of work.

 

And I'd say that would be a point for the Master-Student relationship as well - the Guardians taught us and helped us to find the path we took, and we spared them in return.

[Zarozian]

That's actually not a bad idea... Though it sounds like a lot of work.

 

And I'd say that would be a point for the Master-Student relationship as well - the Guardians taught us and helped us to find the path we took, and we spared them in return.

I am also thinking that the Guardians and the Tenno were pretty much treated as a lower class of citizens by the Orokins too.

 

I wanna see a Stalker VS Teshin one day. o -o What dialogue would an encounter like that bring?

 

Anyways I only conclave because Teshin says it's to help me prepare for the evils beyond the Outer Terminus.

[Blakrana]

Indeed, Ordis' ability to generate Warframe blueprint components is indeed an overlooked by fascinating tidbit of that quest. Though (and sadly I'm not able to research this due to lack of wiki updates) is that a trait he himself had and recovered, or something that Simaris taught him to do? After all, Simaris was the first one to give us such a BP at the very start of the quest.

 

As for the trees: their trees, pretty trees, what do you want?

 

So far as Simaris to Ordis, apparently all Simaris did was remind him he had the function. Did the quest over the weekend so the retention is still fresh. I am interested in seeing where it develops, as Ordis did the second 'BP reclamation' so...he has the ability. Might even be down to Ordis that we have the Chroma BP over all at the end.

 

So far as the trees go? Some of them are integrated into the machinery of the Orokin Towers, which seems a strange thing for an allegedly decorative bit of alleged botany (where's the leaves?). Might really just be decoration but...does honestly make one wonder. Orokin were all about technorganic technology after all...so it could be the Neural Sentry has been hiding in plain sight as these 'trees' which serve either as some kind of vast neural path way (synapses have branches, after all) or a delivery system for a mind control agent.

 

No idea, but it's interesting to consider, though it was a friend's idea a long while ago, not my own. Just feel like playing with it.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

I wanna see a Stalker VS Teshin one day. o -o What dialogue would an encounter like that bring?

I haven't seen or talked to Teshin yet, *cough* 15.16 *cough* but from what I've heard, I feel like he would whip out those dual Nikanas and b*itch slap Stalker into last week.

[Campaigner]

Regardless of what Teshin once was, I cannot help but imagine he was exiled from his place in the Orokin Empire before the Tenno betrayal, likely due to a clashing difference in opinion. That would explain why he does not hate the Tenno, because he did not witness the tragedy as the Stalker did, and because he did not believe the Orokin would have succeeded in the war anyways.

[Zarozian]

Welp I think I made Teshin very proud today. I think I am totally ready for the "EVILS BEYOND THE OUTER TERMINUS".

 

Then I can finally ditch the Conclave and forget about it again cause it's beta~

 

 

And I will admit it's ironic for someone who hates pvp and the ego inflating and bitterness , and everything else it does to people. o -o

 

Right now I admit I am kinda having my ego inflated due to this bugged game that I had today.

 

I mustn't conclave too much. >.>  There is a reason why the Tenno abandoned it. <,<

Edited March 31, 2015 by Zarozian

[arch111]

Intriguing as usual, Morec0.

I like to add the way Tenshin emphasize that the Tenno are their own worst enemy. I know this is a common phrase in these matters, but I can't help thinking there is more to it.

The Tenno were in need of help, guidance and training from the very beginning, and to an extent still are.

All of the Codex entrys point to the fact that Tenno are very like children.

Perhaps this was not allways so? Maby the "oxen" and "seduced" part stopped their independence, fully embracing the lotusflower as a mindcontrol-agent.

[-Vane-]

Stalker > second excalibur (first being Hayden Tenno).

Teshin > the conclave master

Lotus > the guide

-----------

Could it be that... We will pick our guide?

[NEONOVUS]

What if not all that we are told is truth? After all there were lies, we know this. But we don't know what those lies are. And Rebecca is both our lore guide and the Lotus...

 

What if DE is considered to have lied to us as their view of the lore changes, such that as things continue on we find old lore isn't just awkward fits, (Dark Sector), but outright lies (Dark Sector and Hayden Tenno are not connected to Warframe).

[CalmAndHappy]

keep digging you are on to something that is hidden from us  

[Morec0]

Stalker > second excalibur (first being Hayden Tenno).

Teshin > the conclave master

Lotus > the guide

-----------

Could it be that... We will pick our guide?

 

Especially how Stalker is presented to view the Tenno, I highly doubt this. Not to mention that would be a LOT of line that would need to be re-recorded for those quests that feature her as the guiding voice of it.

 

Also I highly doubt Stalker was the second Excalibur, or even a Tenno in the Orokin Era (if he could be considered such now).

 

 

What if not all that we are told is truth? After all there were lies, we know this. But we don't know what those lies are. And Rebecca is both our lore guide and the Lotus...

 

What if DE is considered to have lied to us as their view of the lore changes, such that as things continue on we find old lore isn't just awkward fits, (Dark Sector), but outright lies (Dark Sector and Hayden Tenno are not connected to Warframe).

 

Honestly, this is the same as saying "yeah, Jar Jar Binks was actually the creator of the Star Trek universe, I just lied to everyone". If the creator's just lying it's a possibility, but it's highly unlikely the creator's lying. There's a definitive fourth wall that DE doesn't like to break when it comes to lore (confirmed by Steve himself when asked about Ordi's Limbo Theorem quote).

 

keep digging you are on to something that is hidden from us  

 

I like to consider myself the VaatiVidya of Warframe lore, but with an ever sexier voice.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

 

I like to consider myself the VaatiVidya of Warframe lore

The what?

[Morec0]

The what?

 

 

Prepare To Cry.

[NEONOVUS]

 

 

Honestly, this is the same as saying "yeah, Jar Jar Binks was actually the creator of the Star Trek universe, I just lied to everyone". If the creator's just lying it's a possibility, but it's highly unlikely the creator's lying. There's a definitive fourth wall that DE doesn't like to break when it comes to lore (confirmed by Steve himself when asked about Ordi's Limbo Theorem quote).

 

 

I meant lying in the sense the lore has changed since it was made, that is the more common retcon. Just simply the retcon is because we were lied to, knowingly or not as the players. Like say I write down this guy is a leader, present him as such and provide another leader and followers. But as the story progresses I realize the kingdom I gave him and the followers conflict with the vision of the story I worked out after the napkin dispensor ran dry.

[Morec0]

 

 

 

 

I meant lying in the sense the lore has changed since it was made, that is the more common retcon. Just simply the retcon is because we were lied to, knowingly or not as the players. Like say I write down this guy is a leader, present him as such and provide another leader and followers. But as the story progresses I realize the kingdom I gave him and the followers conflict with the vision of the story I worked out after the napkin dispensor ran dry.

 

 

While I am sure it is inevitable that the direction has taken a few turns off of what was probably the original path, the beauty of the vagueness with which the majority of everything said and written is presented sort of mitigates the harsh blow of the retcon's spikey bat. I'm more of the person to say "okay, this says this now, so how does this relate to what it says here?" rather than say "these two things don't like up immediately and exactly, it must be a retcon" - aside from being more fun it opens up interesting possibilities on the direction the story may take from there.

 

What you're describing doesn't seem to me what DE's doing, again largely due to the vagueness involved that allows them to build and turn the story as they did. Your example presented a written-in-stone element, while DE's story seems to be more drawn with chalk - more lines are bound to come in later to complete the full picture, where they cross and intersect allowing for the greater whole to be seen. 

[arch111]

De allready opened up several paths the story can move. The two things thay absolutely HAVE to either retcon completely, or protect with their dying breath, is:

Lotus us good.

We are the good guys.

They are in muddy waters now speaking of lies, distrust toward the Lotus, the past dangerously close to being blown wide open.

[Jc1011]

The Lotus as we know originates from the original group or organization from the game Dark Sector we have the ancient relics in the form of skins Proto Glaive and Proto Exclaibur the Orokin are the humans that revolved from ancient times from the first technocyte virus leaving Earth and developing in Space and as every civilization has, they had organizations the Guardians trainers of the Warriors of the Warriors of the Orokin, Sentients were created in pursuit of perfection by the Orokin. They turned on the Orokin the descendants of the ancient Hayden Tenno were sent into the mysterious Void as they were naturally stronger than common Orokin and different... They came back and were controlled by the Orokin through the Warframes, the Guardians trained them as they did with all other Orokin warriors but differently in a way to fight the Sentients using the Tenno powers. Also, remember that the Orokin must have not been the only race at the time we have Grineer and Corpus they may have evolved to from ancient versions with Grineer being degenerating clones after years of going for perfection and the Corpus being common humans that have formed their own merchant guild and fight with the Grineer now (remember that the Corpus are a violent MERCHANT GUILD! They are not their own race their whole race is not part of the guild they are civilians and common people of the Origin system and we obviously have ways of reaching outside of our solar system with the Solar Rails so I mean the Sentients are probably hiding out there learning how to combat the Tenno and even Teshin talks about evil coming from outside the solar system it's not that hard to understand AHHH!! Thank you :)

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

 from the game Dark Sector we have the ancient relics in the form of skins Proto Glaive and Proto Exclaibur 

Ever heard of Easter Eggs? Those things exist in Warframe for the same reason Marathon armor exists in Halo 3.

[Siubijeni]

Probably one of the most convincing theories I've seen... but I'm not quite convinced. Stalker's codex says the thing about realizing that they were poised to strike, but it also goes into a lot of melodrama about how he tried to cry out but could not, etc. Honestly, I interpreted the whole thing as intense paranoia on the Stalker's part, never mind that he was right--I think of that as more or less coincidence. It kind of makes sense. I've always thought of the Guardians as a sort of imitation-Tenno, maybe bodyguards and/or a secret police sort of thing. The fanatically loyal are exactly the sort of people you'd pick for such a unit, and zealots like the Stalker are more than a little inclined to fits of paranoia like this.

 

I do not think that Teshin's "new evil" is the Sentients, either. The Sentients were turning their technology against them, and they were in danger of losing, but then the Tenno came along and defeated them in relatively short order. So, as you said, it rules out them as the new enemy unless Teshin is not a Tenno and thus refers to some other group. Unfortunately for your theory, I'm 99.99% percent sure that Teshin was teased and then introduced by the devs as a former Tenno who did not go into cryosleep with the others.

 

To be frank, though, DE has interesting ideas and directions for the plot but isn't very good at paying attention to detail. They have lots of plot holes and minor contradictions, and have had to fix lines/etc before. It's basically impossible to come up with a theory that doesn't have something to contradict it, because of that. I gave up a while ago. So all things considered, it's a good idea.