Please Remove The New Version Of Wave Dashing: Infinite Melee Slide Attack

[Bakim0n0]

Just remove the ability to macro. I do it without one and everyone's fingers need to be as sore as mine so they stop doing it too often.

Or just give us the ability to actually manage who we play with better. Give us the ability to not group with people we block automatically, give us the ability to tag our matches when we host as rushing or not rushing; give us the ability to kick vote people out of groups.

Let us fix our own problems instead of destroying functionality that some abuse and some use as intended.

[Bakim0n0]

So your gameplay style relies on an exploit? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I just want to paraphrase and understand what you're saying. It sounds like you're telling me that you rely on this exploit and have centered your combat strategy around it.

You're not understanding... if I could only slide attack once every 3 seconds that would seriously clip my combat mobility when going straight into melee combat. That'd be like saying you could only register a firing click once every second to deal with people macroing fire rates.

It's not that I zoom around the map leaving others in the dust, it's that I do frequent hit and run slide attacks, sometimes chaining 3 or 4 in short sucession slide>slice>slide>charge>slide>slide etc

Edited June 1, 2013 by Bakim0n0

[Bakim0n0]

They already have made a statement on this officially

2-3 times.

People keep bumping the topic though.   STOP BUMPING IT.

Go read their posts about the previous wave dash.  They have seen this topic too.  If they had anything more to add aside from what they have already officially said about these things then they would have added it 10 pages ago.

Stop beating the dead horse.

Make your own forums, then police it. The whole point of forums is to discuss. If you no longer want to partake in the convo... don't.

[hiryu64]

I think I get what you're saying. You mean to say that you only use it while in combat, correct? I can't help but still think that if you're chaining slide attacks with no delay in between, then it still seems like you're abusing the system.

 

I'm still waiting on TraumaHunter to show me where DE made an official statement on this.

[xoxcloudxox]

Dear Devs, please make it so that players can't infinitely melee slide attack all over the map.

 

It is really annoying because it is the same thing as wave dashing, making the stamina mechanic completely useless, only now the players who do this can also clear an entire room within seconds.

 

Plus it looks completely ridiculous unless someone wants me to believe that we are space bumber car ninjas that hover endlessly sliding every which way as if our shields were made of butter.

 

Edit: Some people have misunderstood thinking I want melee slide attacks gone. That is untrue. I simply think that it is ridiculous for players to be able to melee slide attack throughout the whole map indefinitely and without pause, cancelling the effectiveness of several sprint/stamina mods as well as the entire concept of stamina all the while looking absolutely ridiculous. 

 

(and let's be honest, people use a macro for this, regardless of all the self proclaimed "pros" saying how easy and not finger numbing it is to do normally)

 

To all those who use this exploit/technique whatever:

 

If you are so offended at people calling this obvious exploit by what it is, that you have to resort to personally attacking, you have already lost any argument you thought you were making. So please, if you have something to say, do so in a constructive and polite manner. 

KEEP YOUR NOSE OUT. we like to do this? so leave us alone, not all of us are slow explorer's i personally like to preforate my boss with my boltor then rush through the map.

[Bakim0n0]

I think I get what you're saying. You mean to say that you only use it while in combat, correct? I can't help but still think that if you're chaining slide attacks with no delay in between, then it still seems like you're abusing the system.

*You* consider it an exploit, the ability to do this has been around since before the game even went into open and the devs would have added a delay in as you commented on had they considered it one as well. It is *not easy* to chain attacks without delay even with a macro (which I do not ever use ever btw) and it *does* drain stamina and there is a lot of timing elements involved.

*edit*

That being said, I don't often use this outside of combat (plus there is a way to move that is WAY faster than chaining melee that really is an exploit but I feel should be given it's own animation rather than being removed) and when I do it is to *catch up* to a group. My point has always been that this is something that can be abused somewhat, but it's highly fixable by letting us self regulate because changing base mechanics like that will simultaneously devastate legitimate play-styles.

3 seconds between slides would kill melee combat for the most part.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Bakim0n0

[hiryu64]

*You* consider it an exploit,

 

I do, yes. We are all beta testers, and it is our job to identify issues we feel are bugs or not working as intended.

 

the ability to do this has been around since before the game even went into open

 

That's irrelevant and has no bearing on its validity.

 

and the devs would have added a delay in as you commented on had they considered it one as well.

 

Not necessarily true. It could very well be an oversight. There are a lot of issues with the game, and they could have made this low priority, or just not noticed it due to other issues keeping them busy, or any other number of reasons. Mistakes happen, and the devs aren't perfect, nor are they aware of every issue. It's highly presumptuous to assume that if this were a glitch or not working as intended that they would have fixed it by now and that by them not fixing it equates to them embracing it.

 

That being said, I don't often use this outside of combat (plus there is a way to move that is WAY faster than chaining melee that really is an exploit but I feel should be given it's own animation rather than being removed)

 

You should really share that exploit instead of withholding it.

 

and when I do it is to *catch up* to a group. My point has always been that this is something that can be abused somewhat, but it's highly fixable by letting us self regulate.

 

Proposing that we leave the exploit in and use an honor system is not fixing the exploit.

 

3 seconds between slides would kill melee combat for the most part.

 

Well I would ask what your ideas to patch the exploit would be. However, considering your stance on it, I already know the answer.

Edited June 1, 2013 by hiryu64

[xection9]

Go fast or go slowloooooooo braahh!

[fauxhb]

this thread was dead and now you're necroing it. gross, people.

[Vyaldyn]

this thread was dead and now you're necroing it. gross, people.

Is the discussion useful? Yes.

Is this the thread for this topic? Yes.

Should we open a new thread with the exact same points instead? Very useless.

 

Forums are for discussing. If you don't like the discussion, ignore it.

 

@hiryu64 I would like your reply on https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/43532-please-remove-the-new-version-of-wave-dashing-infinite-melee-slide-attack/?p=589749

[hiryu64]

Sure, you want a full piece-by-piece response like I did above?

[Grimdarkwolf]

Go fast or play Solo.

[fauxhb]

Is the discussion useful? Yes.

Is this the thread for this topic? Yes.

Should we open a new thread with the exact same points instead? Very useless.

 

Forums are for discussing. If you don't like the discussion, ignore it.

 

@hiryu64 I would like your reply on https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/43532-please-remove-the-new-version-of-wave-dashing-infinite-melee-slide-attack/?p=589749

eh.

have you read this whole topic? the discussion is over, that is why it died. no need to repeat same stuff over and over again.

 

and btw, i'm done with using this. i get by with simple air dashing, shift+space+ctrl. why not remove that too? i can get through half of any map in under a minute.

[hiryu64]

 

The solution here is to make sprinting mods a viable option over it. Currently, the sprint mods are straight out bad and barely useful. Wallrunning, and even the old, weakened wavedashing gets the job done better. That is bad.

 

You're going to have to educate me on what the old wavedashing was. I came in after U7. What it was, how it was done, how it was fixed, etc.

 

Also, I agree about the sprint mods. They have such a miniscule effect on sprint speed that there's no reason to use them. Additionally, since they're percentage-based, they have a greater effect on faster frames versus slower frames.

 

 

You're writing like it's a serious problem, but I fail to see that. So far, I have seen only one player using said mechanic to rush to the end faster than others. The rest have been using it to catch up with the faster players (and often faster frames, rhino/frost catching up to a loki). Perhaps the eastern Europe region is just so full of nice players.

 

Overall, the objective is to make the game as enjoyable as possible, and quite frankly, most people who actually have the ability to do this, enjoy it to some extent. Sure the infinite aspect of it could be removed but it must not be something like every other melee slide is slower like they did with wavedashing. That destroys sliding around a room slicing up enemies within.

 

 

It's not a *serious* problem, but it still seems like something that isn't working as intended, which is why we need an official statement on it. We're currently very divided on what it is, and without Word of God, we're only arguing in circles.

 

As I've mentioned, trusting users to not abuse it is not adequate, because it basically admits that it's an exploit and demonstrates the devs' willingness to outright ignore issues. If they come out and legitimize the tactic, then that's that. But it's clear that it's causing enough waves (HA!) in the community that SOMETHING needs to be said.

 

(Off-topic, but I'm starting to feel like the whole stamina system should just be scrapped altogether. It feels very vestigial in many ways.)

 

Oh, and fauxhb, your comments and slippery slope arguments aren't doing anyone any favors. Kindly leave the thread if you don't care for the discussion.

Edited June 1, 2013 by hiryu64

[Blatantfool]

this thread was dead and now you're necroing it. gross, people.

 

 I'm totally okay with it. This thread is old and good. There is a lot of nice feedback to be found. It'd be excellent if even more could get going.

[Notso]

Necros can be good or bad. If you actually have something new to contribute to an old thread, by all means do so. If you're just saying "OP is a $&*^bag" then forget it :P

[LazyTemplar]

 I'm totally okay with it. This thread is old and good. There is a lot of nice feedback to be found. It'd be excellent if even more could get going.

 

Here's my thought.  Look at all the other examples of emergent gamestyles that offer a big advantage, be it bunny hopping, skiing, k-style, wavedashing, or any other animation/mobility exploits.  Regardless of whether you are in favor of those mechanics or not, they almost universally become a pervasive part of the game.  

 

Now, there are two possible explanations for this.  One the one hand, it could be because players decide to embrace the mechanic because they enjoy it.  On the other hand, it could simply be because the players who didn't like it as part of the game simply abandoned the game.  In all likelihood, it's probably a bit of both, but one should keep in mind the latter with arguments that "all the fans loved the new mechanic."  That's probably partially because the people who didn't love it aren't fans anymore.  

 

In any case, DE needs to make a decision.  If they are going to remove it, they need to state so now so that players don't go through the trouble of learning the exploit just to see it removed.  If they are going to leave it in, they need to state so now so that players who don't want to see a game centered around animation cancels have advanced notice to move on now instead of investing more time or money into the game.  

[Blatantfool]

I'm in complete agreement LazyTemplar. If there is a way to change Warframe that would allow it to adopt this sort of thing I'd prefer that.

[hiryu64]

I'm in complete agreement LazyTemplar. If there is a way to change Warframe that would allow it to adopt this sort of thing I'd prefer that.

 

In that case, overhauling or removing the stamina system would be a great place to start.

[Notso]

In that case, overhauling or removing the stamina system would be a great place to start.

 

In my opinion the only change that would be needed is that sprinting does not drain stamina. That way Wallrunning isn't infinite, but people can still sprint all they like. Then you can remove the things like wavedashing giving speed boosts and everybody's happy. Maybe. :P

[shukudai]

hiryu - here is the U7 wavedash: 

 

The technique we have been discussing is generally known as knifeskating, just to clarify terminology.

 

Also would be interested to hear your reply to:  https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/43532-please-remove-the-new-version-of-wave-dashing-infinite-melee-slide-attack/?p=586199

 

edit: completely agree with you LazyTemplar, +1.  But while that would be doing right by the player base, that would cut into the population of people buying into the dojo system.  For that sole reason I wouldn't be holding my breath.

Edited June 2, 2013 by shukudai

[hiryu64]

Oh, I see. Yeah that seems more like a SSBM wavedash than what this thread is discussing. Guess I'll be updating my lexicon then.

 

Also, I'm not exactly sure what I should be replying to, tbh.

[BoompigXD]

Space ninja's are apparently made out of butter 

 

+1

[hiryu64]

So apparently you don't rocket forward when you have the Kunai equipped and do a slide melee attack. I noticed this while leveling mine today, and I realized how simple the solution to patching knifeskating is. Just remove the speed boost from a slide melee attack. This literally changes nothing except for removing the sudden burst of momentum when performing a slide melee. Seems like a pretty good compromise/baby step.

 

Thoughts?

[Arlayn]

What you talking about, Willis? Next you'll tell me there's a mod that increases run speed. Preposterous.

The mod to increase run speed is SO BAD!!! It is the poorest of all mods in the game... Even Rhino runs slow with it at max... So no matter what the other Warframes that are slow as all hell need some kind of move to keep up...