Please Remove The New Version Of Wave Dashing: Infinite Melee Slide Attack

[Sp1nKuro]

That's really what I've been saying. It's unfortunate that some people have misinterpreted my op as to say "take out melee sliding" when I specifically added it in there saying that's not what I was saying.

 

I just meant to tune it so that this feature can't be exploited. If there was a feature of wall running that let you wall run forever I wouldn't say "eliminate wall running", I would say (as I am here) FIX it.

But it's not a broken feature. It's literally been there since the day melee weapons and sliding were part of the game. I find it hard to believe that all these months could go by with an unintended feature being COMMONLY USED and the devs somehow be unaware of it.

You kids who are either new or just inexperienced need to stop whining about this. It's not a bad feature, it takes 2 seconds to learn how to do it and it will IMPROVE your game. It is NOT an exploit, it costs stamina. If you have a problem with being able to constantly do it then the problem lies in the STAMINA REGEN and not in the slide tactic.

TL;DR nerf stamina regen.

[SA-495]

Eh, I just use it in hallways, or when I get the style kill challenges. Or... when everyone uses that bolt rifle and I'm the only one with a wee furius.

[Busok]

now i feel noob for using sprint and marathon mods till this day ._. good thing i only fused them with each other so they don't really waste anything.

 

sooo... how do you do the dash thingy? if it doesn't get removed then i gain something new. if it does get removed, then i still have my rush and marathon mods. huehue

Edited May 13, 2013 by Busok

[nullCassielle]

My two cents:

 

A HUGE number of folks here are acting like screaming lunatics -- I have counted somewhere around a 3:4 ratio of personal attacks to actual useful information. I hope someone steps in and handles this crap. I will not call anyone out as being or not being part of this group -- if you are even wondering, most likely you're guilty, just due to the SHEER DENSITY of personal attacks here. Anyone who didn't engage in that kind of nonsense already knows who they are, and the rest should be ashamed. Stop this crap, it is nothing but community poison. And before anyone even does it, using this chance to call out your superiority to your opponents if you haven't been doing it is falling into the same trap. Just STOP.

 

Secondly: I do not use this technique. I do not have any issue with others using this technique, even when I play Frost. (Unless I play Frost without Sprint mods, but that's really really really my own fault there -- I should have known it was going to be a running mission.)

 

That said, I have seen it in action and I do feel it IS an exploit, because it's clear from the animations that the usage in question was NOT intended by the developers. They could address this in many ways:

 

1: Make it a full-fledged mechanic with appropriate animations.

2: Replace it with an equivalent mechanic.

3: Remove it (it being the abusive technique itself, not the parts it is based on) entirely.

 

I have no issues with any of these. I DO NOT think it should remain in the game AS IT STANDS. It has features which DO degrade balance to a degree, and the animations are not up to par (because it IS abusing systems put in place for different purposes). That's never a good thing, but there are many ways to address it.

Edited May 13, 2013 by nullqasael

[Cerenth]

I find it quite rude that you aren't actually willing to address my points one by one, but I shall extend to you that courtesy.

 

 

Look dude, you and others are reacting so irrationally to a very simple point.

 

I don't believe I'm acting irrationally. I've explained in my (admittedly) rather lengthy post that there is a rationale to leaving the helicoptering (knifeskating) in the game. That is rational behaviour.

 

 

 

 And so far the only two forms of rebuttal I've seen on here are personal attacks and some backwards logic that "since mods/stamina/sprint etc is not good, it's ok to use this exploit".

 

 

I think you've slightly mischaracterized my argument here, and I'm rather offended that you didn't take the time to quote me to say exactly what I do argue. I said that there is disparity between the frame speeds and that it breeds a style of gameplay that is not fun for slower frames. As a result of this players come up with their own solutions, and removing them isn't necessarily the correct solution, even if it does invalidate the sprint mods. All that the players that use the 'exploit' want is for there to be less of a gap between the frames. Knifeskating closes that gap and therefore shouldn't be removed.

 

A valid alternative suggestion would be to leave it to the devs to come up with an alternate solution BEFORE removing the player-invented movement methods.

 

 

Neither of these two cases validate anything. And writing treatises on how I and others who agree supposedly suck, or "got beat" (lol srsly?) really doesn't accomplish anything except inserting a wall 'o text just for the sake of it.

 

 

I make arguments as long as they need to be to get my point across. Please do not characterise my arguments as being "walls o' text just for the sake of it."

 

 

If you disagree with my opinion, that's fine. But your (and others) complete lack to do anything but attack me personally and offer circular flawed logic really doesn't make any sense.

 

I've made this example before. But by the logic you and a few others have put forward, if I think ammo mods/systems are flawed then I am totally justified in using a button sequence that lets me skip reloading.

 

There are two points here to address. Firstly, since we're talking about flawed logic, you neglected to mention my analagous argument using your own logic. Taking wallrunnning out of the game is justified using your logic.

 

Secondly, yes. I would agree that if there is a button sequence that is easily accessible in the game as part of the mechanics that allows you to skip reloading, you would be totally justified in using it. As it stands the sequence is currently Q > click ammo box. Such a mechanic is already in the game and is perfectly legal.

 

 

The one thing I can understand and agree with you is that I didn't address the problem of why people are using this, which would be to assume that there is something wrong with the current method of traversing space. I didn't adress this because to me there is no problem with it. There is slow running, sprinting, wall running, slide jumping etc and to me they are fine.

 

Well, gee. That's a nice opinion you have there. However, the evidence paints a different story.

 

If there were no problems with the movement system, people would not feel that they have to resort to exploits. There would not be threads about how buggy the sliding and stairs are.

 

Once the devs deal with this, then perhaps removal of some of the exploits should be considered. Until then, the underlying cause of the exploitation will not be dealt with.

 

 

That's really what I've been saying. It's unfortunate that some people have misinterpreted my op as to say "take out melee sliding" when I specifically added it in there saying that's not what I was saying.

 

I just meant to tune it so that this feature can't be exploited. If there was a feature of wall running that let you wall run forever I wouldn't say "eliminate wall running", I would say (as I am here) FIX it.

 

Ok, I had to include this post in my rebuttal to point out how you're changing the goalposts.

 

The title of this thread is: "Please Remove The New Version Of Wave Dashing."

 

>Remove

 

So you say that you wouldn't want an exploit to be removed, just fixed, but your thread calls for the removal of an exploit.

 

You're not being consistent.

[SoaringEagle]

... I have seen it in action and I do feel it IS an exploit, because it's clear from the animations that the usage in question was NOT intended by the developers...

 

... I DO NOT think it should remain in the game AS IT STANDS. It has features which DO degrade balance to a degree, and the animations are not up to par (because it IS abusing systems put in place for different purposes). That's never a good thing...

 

Hear hear.

[TehJumpingJawa]

It's even easier when you use an xbox controller like I do.

But we sacrifice a lot for doing that, aim is slower/less accurate and blocking never happens since it's on dpad.

 

I've no idea which side of the argument your opinion lies...... but what you just said there completely invalidated it anyway :D

 

Anyhow, that little jibe aside; back on topic:

 

I find strolling around at a pedestrian pace boring, where as frantically bouncing around the map like a maniac is fun.

 

Thus any change that reduced player mobility would diminish the fun I personally get out of the game.

 

On a side-note, it's worth stating that I'd prefer it if stamina were completely removed.

95% of the time it's completely irrelevant anyway, and the other 5% of the time it just causes frustration by interrupting the player's flow.

 

Other frustrations include (but not limited to)...

 

- not running when run is held down, forcing the key to be released & repressed.

- not jumping when jump is pressed, because you're flush against a non-flat vertical surface.

- rolling when pressing jump, because you're on an odd surface

- inadvertently rolling when rapidly releasing then repressing run. (Overloading multiple actions onto a single key is a console constraint, and completely unnecessary for PC!)

- 'cannot cast while in the air' when feet are firmly on the ground.

- grabbing an edge when you really didn't want to (can we have the grab action tied to a key, rather than be automatic?)

- press run, then have to wait for the run animation to actually start before you're able to perform a forwards jump. (very frame rate dependent)

 

Basically every aspect of the movement mechanics that at present behaves in a clunky, unnatural way.

Edited May 13, 2013 by TehJumpingJawa

[Sp1nKuro]

I've no idea which side of the argument your opinion lies...... but what you just said there completely invalidated it anyway :D

 

Anyhow, that little jibe aside; back on topic:

 

I find strolling around at a pedestrian pace boring, where as frantically bouncing around the map like a maniac is fun.

 

Thus any change that reduced player mobility would diminish the fun I personally get out of the game.

 

On a side-note, it's worth stating that I'd prefer it if stamina were completely removed.

95% of the time it's completely irrelevant anyway, and the other 5% of the time it just causes frustration by interrupting the player's flow.

 

Other frustrations include (but not limited to)...

 

- not running when run is held down, forcing the key to be released & repressed.

- not jumping when jump is pressed, because you're flush against a non-flat vertical surface.

- rolling when pressing jump, because you're on an odd surface

- inadvertently rolling when rapidly releasing then repressing run. (Overloading multiple actions onto a single key is a console constraint, and completely unnecessary for PC!)

- 'cannot cast while in the air' when feet are firmly on the ground.

- grabbing an edge when you really didn't want to (can we have the grab action tied to a key, rather than be automatic?)

- press run, then have to wait for the run animation to actually start before you're able to perform a forwards jump. (very frame rate dependent)

 

Basically every aspect of the movement mechanics that at present behaves in a clunky, unnatural way.

How did I invalidate my argument?

And I'm for keeping the dash, because it's a good mechanic. More games need advanced mechanics like that, even if they do start off as exploits making them official is a good thing.

There's a reason super smash bros. melee is still the competitive game and brawl the casual one: wavedashing.

[Brasten]

TehJumpingJawa, on 12 May 2013 - 6:33 PM, said:

Thus any change that reduced player mobility would diminish the fun I personally get out of the game.

However abusing crouch-animation-cancel (even easier with crouch lock) to achieve that mobility in the first place doesn't help the argument that there needs to be better mobility options. I do laps around the Grineer room that has the two vent exits to the left and right of the upper exit. That includes going up the stairs... on a non-stamina/speed boosted Rhino, with just the base Dual Zoren.

I agree, moving at hyper speeds and flying through the air are super fun. However the way this particular exploit (because it is exploiting the animation cancel) is more then a touch game breaking.

[TraumaHunter]

This topic needs to just die.

-.-

[Bakim0n0]

Wrong example.

 

You get a regular job offer 5$/hour. And you see a lot of people doing clandestine employment on the same job for 20$/hour.

 

Which one you choose?

 

 

Warframe:

 

You can spend money/farm on official sprint mods, speed mods, stamina mods or you can use an exploit where you don't need to spend any money/farm.

 

Which one you choose?

You totally took the conversation out of context and extrapolated points I was never trying to make. We were talking about rushing in general, nothing to do with exploits.

[Colaii]

I can do super jumps with my Dual Zoren but not with any other weapon. Dem slide attacks, meng.

 

 

 

I am a Flying Space Ninja Potato man with Axes. I feel like Olaf has thrown me.

[shukudai]

No worries Lux, you've validated my points far better than any wall of text could.  We're done here. :)

[Renan.Ruivo]

Honestly, i had no idea what "Wave Dashing" was, and now i also have no idea what "The New Wave Dashing" is.

 

I guess being a solo and private player only, bypassing PUG's completely, has it's down(up?)sides.

[CrazyCatLad]

I freaking love doing it.  I know its a glitch but it is fun.

[Gh0st_Slay3r]

As I said... DE needs to tread very carefully before they alienate a chunk of the playerbase over an issue that can easily be solved by people having more control over / being more selective of who they group with.

 

DE need to tread carefully on making people play the game how they intended it to be played?... really?

 

As for your 'selective group' comment that is just pathetic. Most games it is difficult to find a group to play with as it is unless you are playing some of the more popular levels. 

 

The devs got rid of wave dashing, or what ever people like to call it, because it was not intended so if I was you I would get ready to be disappointed.

 

If you wanna rush then you are better off playing solo to avoid pizzing people off, or play private with people who want to do the same thing. Thats what I do because I have some common decency for fellow players. I dont hold much hope for you though, you seem like this guy I got in my room earlier who constantly did this and rushed to the end so me and my mate just chilled before the exit for 5 mins before we decided to extract :p

[Luxangel7]

Ok, I had to include this post in my rebuttal to point out how you're changing the goalposts.

 

The title of this thread is: "Please Remove The New Version Of Wave Dashing."

 

>Remove

 

So you say that you wouldn't want an exploit to be removed, just fixed, but your thread calls for the removal of an exploit.

 

You're not being consistent.

 

The only thing I'll respond to is this, because this is becoming an ad nauseam repetition.

 

When I said "remove", since you took issue with this specific word, it was obvious to me that I was not saying remove melee slide attacking. That would be preposterous, and accusing me of "moving the goal" or whatever is just ridiculous. I'm not here to argue with you, I have no interest in "winning" anything, be it an argument or internet cookies.

 

I came here to say that I believe an in game mechanic is being exploited, and that the ability to do it ad infinitum should be removed.

 

As I've said before, if you disagree, fine. But don't expect me to agree with you when you and other present nothing more than personal attacks and self validating logic.

 

And as a final note, before you feign such large offense at me not tackling your pages of comments I would consider well your own words, and calling people you don't know "children" and "whiners" among a bevy of other such wonderfully passive aggressive comments.

 

I have no further interest in arguing needlessly with you or anyone else. I won't be responding to you again because much like another user I have had negative experiences with, I continue to do nothing else but politely state my opinion and desire that what I believe to be an exploited in game mechanic be fixed, removed, what have you. And in return I keep receiving varying degrees of personal insults and circular or self validating logic.

 

As they say, we will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[aliasAnonymous]

yo non-S#&$ talkers, contribute to the intelligent sector of the community

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/43815-a-hopefully-more-communicative-thread-on-alternative-movement/

[Gh0st_Slay3r]

I have no interest in "winning" anything, be it an argument or internet cookies.

 

Wait! There is not even a cookie out of all this?

 

God damn it!

 

;)

[Catharsis25]

"(and let's be honest, people use a macro for this, regardless of all the self proclaimed "pros" saying how easy and not finger numbing it is to do normally)"

 

Have you ever tried to make a macro? It's not easy to get the timing of everything down well enough that using the macro is more effective and reliable than just getting good at the button combo. Especially if you need to compensate for lag. I tried to make a macro to slide-dash, but I've found it so much easier to just do it manually.

 

Also, I think the slide attack thing looks pretty cool. Just saying. I don't want the devs to remove this, it's too much fun. It's also really useful to get to teammates that are downed.

[Luxangel7]

"(and let's be honest, people use a macro for this, regardless of all the self proclaimed "pros" saying how easy and not finger numbing it is to do normally)"

 

Have you ever tried to make a macro? It's not easy to get the timing of everything down well enough that using the macro is more effective and reliable than just getting good at the button combo. Especially if you need to compensate for lag. I tried to make a macro to slide-dash, but I've found it so much easier to just do it manually.

 

Also, I think the slide attack thing looks pretty cool. Just saying. I don't want the devs to remove this, it's too much fun. It's also really useful to get to teammates that are downed.

 

Please read the first line of the first post. I am not asking them to remove melee slide attacking.

[AmagicalFishy]

Its not hard... if you need a macro for something silly easy like that you should never play a game like gunz lol

I don't have much input on the matter, but...

 

HOLY S#&$, SOMEONE ELSE PLAYED GUNZ??

K-STYLE BUTTERFLY HIGH FIVE

I remember counting once. 8-button presses a second with the left hand. I would be surprised if dash-sliding or w/e required that.

[Brasten]

All the current examples of this are hyper speed, "look how fast I can go". I couldn't help myself so I did something a little slower... now I'm not sure I want DE to remove this. The comedy potential is very high. I still think when this game is done and out the door DE should do a spin-off.

 

[Blatantfool]

All the current examples of this are hyper speed, "look how fast I can go". I couldn't help myself so I did something a little slower... now I'm not sure I want DE to remove this. The comedy potential is very high. I still think when this game is done and out the door DE should do a spin-off.

 

 

 It boggles my mind that some people are flustered over this. Any time I've encountered a player doing this it wouldn't even warrant a shrug.

[Altale]

It boggles my mind that some people are flustered over this. Any time I've encountered a player doing this it wouldn't even warrant a shrug.

ITT:

Edited May 13, 2013 by rCaliberGX