It's Time To Balance Our Mods

[Azamagon]

As many may know by now, the players offensive powers scale way too quickly with our offensive (weapon)mods while the enemies' defensive powers likewise scale way too quickly with levels (in particular if armor comes into the picture).

(Note: Numbers being high don't necessarily have to be a problem, but when you deal with PERCENTAGES, you have to be very careful)

 

These rapid scalings also has other indirect consequences:

1) Warframes with flat damagepowers fall off in viability very quickly as well.

2) Utility and QoL mods are too hard to fit in to builds due to the immense necessary power you get from damage-increasing mods. This could still be alleviated seperately by expanding on the Exilus-slots though (more to that later)

 

If DE wants to have a more healthy scaling in Warframe and thus allow flat damagepowers to last longer, we need to tone down enemy defensive scaling (armor mostly). And to be able to do that, we need to tone down our mods, mainly our damage-increasing weaponmods.

 

That said, here are the my proposed numbers and changes:

 

---- WEAPON MODS ----

* Names in CAPS are new mod suggestions (mostly added just to fill up gaps)

* Changes to mods are done in bold and underlined (note that some changes are done to a GROUP of mods, which means that a change might only affect one mod from that group, that will still be notified as an overall change to the group)

* Mods not mentioned are simply untouched

* Explosive weapons (for players and enemies alike) no longer explodes through walls (as in, you can take cover from explosions). Punchthrough, however, adds the ability for explosions to pass through X distance of the environment. Punchthrough no longer causes the projectiles with explosive properties to get punchthrough though (it ONLY affects their explosion punchthrough)

* Critical hit chance is raised just enough for unmodded weapons upon stealth/weakspot hits and when doing ground/stealth/counter finishers to guarantee critical hits, which needs some overall balancing in itself, but the idea is that it allows for modding for skillbased combat, on critweapons and non-critweapons alike!

* Physical damage mods now function like elemental mods: They get a damage increase based on TOTAL base damage, not just based on the physical damagetype in question. That means you can use add them on purely elemental weapons as well.

* Corrupted mods - A corrupted mod cannot be equipped at the same time as its basic counterpart. You have to choose, for example, between Serration and Heavy Caliber, you can't choose both. Corrupted mods have more overall power, but they have their penalties.

Note: Still thinking wether this should be true for Corrupt WARFRAME mods too or not.

 

GENERAL WEAPON MODS

* Multishot mods (Split Chamber, Barrel Diffusion, Hell's Chamber)

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 6-36% multishot

 

* Potential idea - Corrupted multishot mods (SICK SPLIT, BULLET DISTORTION, GNASHING SWARM)

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 13,3-100% multishot, 6-36% total damage penalty

(Note: This make it a guaranteed multishot, but total damage is just 1.28x of one regular bullet, making it overall slightly weaker than regular multishot. However, it still has its benefits with status- and crit-chance and overall reliability. So, it's a real choice!)

 

* Punchthrough mods (Metal Auger, Seeker, Seeking Force)

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 0,35-2,1 meter punchthrough

 

* Base damage mods (Serration, Hornet Strike, Point Blank)

Modcost 4-14, Bonus 5-55% damage

 

* Corrupted base damage mods (Heavy Caliber, Magnum Force, Vicious Spread)

Modcost 4-14, Bonus 7-77% damage, 3-33% accuracy penalty

 

* Pressure Point

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 10-60% damage

 

* Spoiled Strike

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 15-90% damage, 3-18% attack speed penalty

 

* Rate of fire mods (Speed Trigger, Gunslinger, Shotgun Spazz)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 10-60% rate of fire

 

* Corrupted rate of fire mods (Vile Acceleration, Anemic Agility, Frail Momentum)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 15-90% rate of fire, 2,5-15% total damage penalty

Note: No changes done, it's just for comparison to regular Rate of Fire mods.

 

* FRENZY (new Corrupted rate of fire mod for melee)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 8-48% rate of fire, 4-24% critical damage penalty

 

* Critical chance mods (Point Strike, Pistol Gambit, Blunderbuss, True Steel)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 25-150% critical chance

 

* Corrupt critical chance mods (Critical Delay, Creeping Bullseye, Critical Deceleration)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 35-210% critical chance, 6-36% rate of fire penalty

 

* TWISTED STEEL (new Corrupted critical chance mod for melee)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 35-210% critical chance, 3-18% rate of fire penalty

 

* Critical damage mods (Vital Sense, Target Cracker, Ravage, Organ Shatter)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 15-90% critical damage

 

* Corrupt critical damage mods (GRAVEDIGGER (rifle), Hollow Point, CARNAGE (shotgun), DEATH DEALER (melee))

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 25-150% critical damage, 6-36% status chance penalty

 

* Magazine mods (Magazine Warp, Slip Magazine, Ammo Stock)

Modcost 4-9 or 2-7, Bonus 10-60% magazine size

 

* Corrupt magazine mods (Tainted Mag, Tainted Clip, Burdened Magazine)

Modcost 4-9 or 2-7, Bonus 15-90% magazine size, 5-30% reloadspeed penalty

(Note; Tainted Mag should work on ANY Rifle weapon, not just Assault Rifles)

 

* Accuracy mods (All new: MARKSMANSHIP (rifle), PISTOL PRECISION (pistol), BARREL CHOKE (shotgun))

Modcost 4-9 or 2-7, Bonus 5-30% accuracy

 

* Corrupt accuracy mods (Vile Precision, CREEPING AIM (pistol), Tainted Shell)

Modcost 4-9 or 2-7, Bonus 10-60% accuracy, 5-30% rate of fire penalty

Note; Vile Precision used to affect recoil, which is redundant, considering the existance of Stabilizer

 

* Reloadspeed mods (Fast Hands, Quickdraw, Tactical Pump)

Modcost 2-7, Bonus 8-48% reloadspeed

 

* Elemental damage mods (Hellfire, Stormbringer, Deep Freeze, Molten Impact etc)

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 7,5-45% elemental damage

Note; This also goes for the Archwing mods

 

* Physical damage mods (Rupture, Heavy Trauma, Sawtooth Clip etc)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 7,5-45% physical damage

 

* Elemental + Status mods (Pistol Pestilence, Scorch etc)

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 7,5-30% elemental damage, 15-60% status chance

Note; This also goes for the Archwing mods

 

* Physical event mods (Bore, Maim, Sweeping Serration etc)

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 7,5-30% physical damage, Bonus 15-60% status chance

This makes the physical event mods the physical counterparts to the element+status mods, so you can specialize in physical damage+status if you want

 

* Status chance mods (Rifle Aptitude, Sure Shot, Shotgun Savvy, Melee Prowess)

Modcost 2-7, Bonus 15-90% status chance

 

* Status duration mods (Continuous Misery, Perpetual Agony, Lingering Torment, Lasting Sting)

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 25-100% status duration

Note; Should probably prolong the stun effects of Impact, Heat, Electric and Blast to make them a tad more useful.

 

* Zoom mods (Eagle Eye, Hawk Eye)

Modcost 2-5, bonuses remain the same (?), should benefit zoomed accuracy more too.

Note; Weapons with increased zoom (by default or with these mods installed) should be able to alter the amount of zoom with the scrollwheel while aiming, to make these mods more useful.

 

* Flight speed mods (Terminal Velocity, Lethal Momentum, Fatal Acceleration)

Modcost 2-5 or 4-7, Bonus 15-60% flight speed

Note; Should probably also increase the range at which Shotguns start to fall off in damage, perhaps?

 

* Recoil reduction mods (Stabilizer, Steady Hands, LOCK STOCK (new for shotguns))

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 15-60% recoil reduction

 

* Max ammo reserves mods (Ammo Drum, Trick Mag, Shell Compression)

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 25-100% max ammo reserves

Note; Max ammo values need to be adjusted on all weapons regardless.

 

SPECIFIC RIFLE/BOW/SNIPER MODS

* Adhesive Blast (rename it maybe?)

Modcost 4-7, Reduces bounces / bounciness by 25-100% (Max rank = Also becomes sticky)

Note: It reduces the amount of bounces on weapons that have specific amount of bounces (like Panthera), while reducing how far projectiles bounce on weapons with no set amount of bounces (Tonkor, Penta etc). That means that when the mod is max rank, the projectiles won't bounce at all, they just stick to what they hit.

Note 2: Now works on these weapons: Tonkor, Penta, Simulor, Panthera, Miter, Drakgoon (and Kohm + Kohmak if they get bounces back) as well as the secondary attack of Mutalist Quanta, Quanta and Quanta Vandal. Note that for the Quanta (+Vandal) and Tonkor this only really has an effect on environmental hits, as hitting enemies causes them to explode instantly anyway

Note 3: This means it cannot be used on Torid and Ogris anymore, since it no longer has any effect whatsoever on them (the damagebonus is removed, which also makes this mod Exilus-viable!)

Note 4: If Kohm and Kohmak were to get bouncy projectiles back, then this mod would need to work on Secondaries too

 

* RICOCHET (added as a contrast to Adhesive Blast)

Modcost 4-7, Increases bounces / bounciness by 25-100%

Note: This would mainly benefit Panthera, Miter and Drakgoon (and Kohm + Kohmak if they get bounces back), but can still be equipped on Tonkor, Penta, Simulor, Mutalist Quanta, Quanta and Quanta Vandal if you want more bounciness/bounces on them

Note 2: If Kohm and Kohmak were to get bouncy projectiles, then this mod would need to work on Secondaries too

 

* Combustion Beam

No changes except these

1) Should work on enemies that vaporize on death too (such as Volatile Runner)

2) Either should be equippable on continuous secondaries too, or a secondary equivalent needs to be made

3) It currently doesn't work on Panthera (its secondary is continuous). Should it?

 

* Charged Chamber

Modcost 2-7, Bonus 5-30% first shot damage

Note; Should this work on Bows too? After some feedback, probably not.

 

* Primed Chamber Primed Charged Chamber (owners of Primed Chamber gets Primed Chamber converted into a MAXED Primed Charged Chamber!)

Modcost 2-12, Bonus 5-55% first shot damage

Note; Should this work on Bows too? After some feedback, probably not.

 

* Thunderbolt

Modcost 6-9, Deals 25-100 damage or 5-20% of damage dealt (whichever is greater) as Blast damage in a small area of effect (Changed to no longer be chance-based + now scales much better in damage!)

Note; Should this work on Snipers too?

Note 2; Damage should be non-harmful to yourself, the blast made more energylike to make sense of that

 

* Depleted Reload

Modcost 4-7, Increases reloadspeed by 25-100%, magsize reduced by 10-40%

Note: No longer just useable for Snipers, but also Rifles and Launchers (but not for Shotguns and probably not Bows either?)

Note 2: Like I suggested for all Corrupted mods, this doesn't stack with its regular counterpart (Fast Hands / Primed Fast Hands)

 

* Firestorm

Should work on ANY primary weapon with a radius effect. This means it should be equippable on:

Ignis, Ogris, Penta, Tonkor, Torid and Opticor, like it already does, but also on Quanta+Quanta Vandal (the secondary), Mutalist Quanta (the secondary's size and its explosion radius) Simulor (the detonation radius and the "5-stacked vortex" effect)

Just change its description to "+24% Effect radius" and nothing else, its description is unnecessarily long.

 

* Wildfire

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 5-20% multishot, Bonus 10-40% magazine size

Note; Changed just to not give any elemental bias + to let Rifles have a Nightmare-multishot-mod, equivalent to Lethal Torrent and my revamp of Seeking Fury

 

SPECIFIC PISTOL MODS

* Concealed Explosions

Modcost 6-9, Deals 25-100 damage or 5-20% of damage dealt (whichever is greater) as Blast damage in a small area of effect (Changed to no longer be chance-based + now scales much better in damage!)

Note; Damage should be non-harmful to yourself, the blast made more energylike to make sense of that.

Note 2: It should say it is for Thrown Secondaries, not for Pistols.

 

* Ruinous Extension

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 3-12 meter range

(Just buffed to make it equal to Sinister Reach)

 

* DANGER ZONE (New Secondary mod equivalent to Firestorm with the same stats)

Should work on ANY secondary weapon with a radius effect. This means it should be equippable on:

Angstrum, Embolist, Kulstar, Stug, Castanas (+Sancti Castanas of course)

Its description could simply be "+24% Effect radius" and nothing else.

 

* Stunning Speed

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 10-40% reloadspeed, Bonus 15-60% status chance

 

* Lethal Torrent

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 5-20% multishot, Bonus 7,5-30% rate of fire

 

* Ice Storm Bulletstorm

Modcost 8-11, Bonus 0,3-1,2 meter punchthrough, Bonus 10-40% magazine size

Note; Changed just to not give any elemental bias + to let Pistols have a Nightmare-punchthrough-mod, equivalent to Shred and Seeking Fury

 

SPECIFIC SHOTGUN MODS

* SILENT THUNDER (Silencer mod for Shotguns, because why not! :D)

Modcost 2-5, 25-100% noise reduction

 

* Blaze Breach

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 15-60% status chance, Bonus 5-20% damage

Note; Changed just to not give any elemental bias + to let Shotguns have a Nightmare-status-mod, equivalent to Hammershot and Stunning Speed

 

* Accelerated Blast Assault Tactics

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 10-40% magazine size, Bonus 7,5-30% rate of fire

Note; Changed just to not give any physical bias + to give shotguns a Nightmare-magazine-mod, equivalent to Wildfire and Ice Storm

 

* Seeking Fury

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 0,2-1,2 meter punchthrough , Bonus 3,3-20% multishot

Note; Changed to give shotguns a Nightmare-multishot-mod, equivalent to Lethal Torrent and my revamp of Wildfire

 

SPECIFIC MELEE MODS

Before going into specific melee mods, here are some important notes first:

* Regular blocking reduces all damage taken by 100% and a 100% chance to "counterstun" meleeing enemies. Blocking can only be done a limitted amount of time though (similar to how wall-latching works, with enemy melee attacks depeleting it much faster than ranged ones), this timer depletes while blocking attacks, is paused while blocking and not under attack, and regenerates back again after a very brief delay (0,5 seconds?) after not blocking anymore. This blocking timer would be nice if it was displayed somehow (as a circle around the crosshairs perhaps?). Also note: Sword-and-Shield weapons are improved a bit in this regard (longer timer and quicker regen, for example)
* Blocking can be done in gunmode, but the blocking timer's regeneration speed is reduced + the regen delay is increased if doing so.
* Channeling is now "drain per second" instead of "drain per hit". This would remove a lot of bias from the heavyhitting weapons. I'd suggest a drainrate of about 3 energy per second or so. This drain is only affected by Channeling Efficiency, not Power Efficiency.
* Channeled blocks: Due to the changes of channeling, channelblocking now is far more worthwhile to do (not draining your energy in a matter of seconds). Channeled blocks would provide the regular 100% damage reduction when blocking and 100% chance to counterstun meleeing enemies, but also adds the following: No blocking timer limit (the non-channeled blocking timer is paused while channeling+blocking) + and damagereflection.

* Throwing melee weapons (like the Glaive) can be called back midflight by pressing your melee button (works in Gun mode too), to make Quick Return more optional and Rebound a bit more of an attractive modchoice. Blocking or channeling while they are in midflight cause them to explode (since it is triggerable by blocking as well, this means you can do it from Gunmode too, with blocking being available in Gunmode!)

* Ground finishers also deal finisher damage (just like Stealth- and Counter-finishers)

* There should be an option in the options-menu which allows you to choose how you trigger the melee finishers: Either triggered by melee attacks (like now), or by the action-button (X-key by default). That'd make EVERYONE happy! :)

* While meleeing, your movement is not as heavily restricted as it is now with certain weapons (Heavy weapons, whips etc, would can still slow you down while attacking, but they should at least let you MOVE while attacking)
* Stancemods ONLY bring bonuses, no penalties whatsoever. Note though, melee multiplier on combos are far less extreme, unless the attacks are VERY slow (such as Tempo Royale's Bold Reprise, there it is fitting). And all stances need to have 4 combos each so there is some more variety in attacks.

 

* Seismic Wave

Modcost 6-9, Increases ground slam attack damage by 50-200 (flat amount!)

Note: This should actually affect the AoE damage too, not just the connecting attack! However, this bonus should probably have damage falloff? The attack is slow, but still.

Note 2: Maybe there could be an added visual shockwave to display the added power?

 

* Covert Lethality

Modcost 10-13, Increases damage by 15-60 and all finishing moves (stealth, ground, counter) are performed 15-60% faster

Note: The "instant kill" thing is just too hard to balance. Besides, the problem with finishing moves is their SPEED, not the damage they deal.

Note 2: Should work on Dual Daggers too!

Note 3: This finisher speed bonus would stack with the revamped Finishing Touch (Both maxed (120% bonus) means less than half the time spent doing finishing moves!)

 

* Reach

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 0,3-1,2 meter melee reach and slam radius (no longer a broken percentual value, just a flat bonus range, and for slam radius too!)

Note: Primed Reach would then give 3,3 melee reach and slam radius bonus, which would be quite nice for any melee weapon!

 

* Second Wind

Removed, but it sparked a very simple idea which could be added as a new mod

Second Wind - Modcost 2-7, Grants 5-30 health upon any melee kill (not just channeling melee kill)

Note; It would no longer be tied to channeling whatsoever!

 

* Warrior's Grip

Removed, but it sparked a very simple idea which could be added as a new mod

Warrior's Grip - Modcost 4-7, Increases your total blocking timer by 10-40%

Note; It would no longer be tied to channeling whatsoever!

 

* Berserker

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 0,75-3% melee attack speed bonus and 0,75-3% less damage taken, both effects for 5-20 seconds, upon melee hits, while critical hits grants 3 stacks each. Stacks up to 15 times.

 

* Energy Channel

Modcost 4-7, 100-400% energy used is stored as bonus melee damage for your next melee attack, max storing 100-400 damage, bonus damage dealt in a 5m area of effect.

Note; This damage bonus is a flat FINISHER damage-type bonus, dealt seperately from your regular melee attack and in an AoE, significantly improving its value.

 

* Finishing Touch

Modcost 2-5, Finishing moves are performed 15-60% quicker and your melee kills grant an additional 1-4 "hits" towards the combo counter

Note; Now benefits all 3 finisher attacks - Stealth, Ground and Counter.

Note 2: More damage is kind of pointless on these already very powerful attacks, but speed on the other hand...

Note 3: It COULD still boost the finishing move damage AS WELL, but the speed is far more beneficial imo.

 

* Parry

Modcost 2-7, Increases the blocking-timer's regeneration speed by 7-42%

(Note: Since I made counterstuns guaranteed upon blocking melee attacks, wether channeled or not, it got changed to the above)

 

* Power Throw

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 0,3-1,8 meter punchthrough

Note; No longer causes explosions on last bounce, that should be a pure channeling feature.

 

* Rending Strike Bloodwind

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 15-60% status chance, Grants 5-20 health upon any melee kill

Note; Changed just to not give any physical bias

Note 2; The health restore stacks with the revamped Second Wind mod's health restore

 

* Focus Energy

Modcost 4-7, 50-200% energy used is stored as bonus melee damage for your next melee attack, max storing 50-200 damage, bonus damage dealt in a 5m area of effect + Bonus 5-20% channeling efficiency

Note; Changed just to not give any elemental bias

Note 2; Stacks with the Energy Channel mod. Read on Energy Channel for more details on how the damage bonus is changed

 

* Reflex Coil

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 10-40% channeling efficiency

 

* Killing Blow

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 3-18% total damage at all times, tripled effect while channeling (thus 9-54% total damage increase bonus while channeling)

 

* Corrupt Charge

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 4-24% total damage at all times, tripled effect while channeling (thus 12-72% total damage increase bonus while channeling), 4-24% channeling efficiency penalty

 

* Life Strike

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 0,5-2% lifesteal at all times, tripled effect while channeling (thus 1,5-6% lifesteal while channeling)

Note; Penalty removed, due to not actually being a corrupt mod

 

* Enduring Strike

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 10-40% status chance at all times, tripled effect while channeling (thus 30-120% status chance bonus while channeling)

Note; Penalty removed, due to not actually being a corrupt mod

 

* Quickening

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 4-16% rate of fire at all times, tripled effect while channeling (thus 12-48% rate of fire bonus while channeling)

Note; Penalty removed, due to not actually being a corrupt mod

 

* True Punishment

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 20-80% critical chance at all times, tripled effect while channeling (thus 60-240% critchance bonus while channeling)

Note; Penalty removed, due to not actually being a corrupt mod

 

* MARTIAL MOMENTUM

Modcost 2-5, Increases combo counter duration by 0,75 - 3 seconds

Note: I think baseline combo counter duration should be 6 seconds. This would put it up to 9 seconds

Note 2: Each combo counter "reset" should just put the combo counter down to the previous multiplier, not instantly down to 0.

 

* COMBO GUARD

Modcost 8-11, the combo counter multiplier is also given as a damage-taken-divider for your Warframe, lasting up to 1-4 seconds extra after the multiplier is reset.

Note: This means that when you have a 1.5x combo multiplier, all damage done to you is reduced by dividing the damage by 1,5x (aka, 33% damage reduction). 2x multiplier means dividing by 2x (aka 50% damage reduction) and so on and so forth.

Note 2: Each combo counter "reset" should just put the combo counter down to the previous multiplier, not down to 0. That means, when you lose your 2x combo, it goes down to 1.5x, further meaning you will have up to a 2x damage taken divider for another 1-4 seconds, even when you are at the 1.5x multiplier. When those 1-4 seconds are out, you then have a 1.5x damage taken divider etc.

 

SPECIFIC ARCHWING MODS

While these also might need more balancing, they are fairly balanced already (bar the elemental ones, but that was noted up in the general weapon mod changes) But there is ONE mod in particular I'd like to boost:

 

* Extend

Values remain the same, but now also extends the max range at which you can "leap" in towards targets!

 

---- WARFRAME AND AURA MODS ----

* Names in CAPS are new mod suggestions

* Changes to mods are done in bold and underlined

* Mods not mentioned are simply untouched

* I personally think that all Warframes should have a bit of innate energy regen (like 0,5 energy/second) to ease the "necessity" of Energy Siphon, and also as compensation for the changes I've suggested for Power Efficiency mods (mentioned further down) and the changes for auras.

 

Also, blocking has had some adjustments (also mentioned in the melee section), which affects some of the Warframe mods too, which is good to be repeated:

* Regular blocking reduces all damage taken by 100% (or at least 90%, with Sword & Shield reducing 95%) and has a small chance to "counterstun" meleeing enemies (10%?)
* Blocking can be done in gunmode, but with less blocking-efficiency (only reducing damage by 80% or so).

* Channeling is now "drain per second" instead of "drain per hit". This would remove a lot of bias from the heavyhitting weapons. I'd suggest a drainrate of about 2 energy per second or so. This drain is only affected by Channeling Efficiency, not Power Efficiency.

* Channeled blocks: Due to the changes of channeling, channelblocking now is far more worthwhile to do (not draining your energy in a matter of seconds). Channeled blocks would provide 100% damage reduction when blocking + damagereflection + 100% chance to "counterstun" meleeing enemies.

 

AURAS

Before going into specific Aura mods, some general changes for auras are to be considered before looking at their values:

* Aura stacking now have diminishing returns - Each additional aura is 50% less strong than the previous one (So Energy Siphon, for example, grants 0.6 regen from the first player, then 0.3 from the second, 0.15 from the third and 0.075 from the fourth, for a total of 1.125 regen for all players. Thus, having varied auras is encouraged, but not necessary. It also reduces the big powergap of auras for multiplayers and solo players. It also allows for many lackluster auras to have stronger base values.

* All auras have 6 ranks with a max 7 point bonus, to reduce modding bias. (Preferably, I'd also like to see polarities disappear from auras, so we can more freely swap between them)

* I have tried to make it so that all auras are useful at all times (For example, Corrosive Projection is not just antiarmor, it has uses against Corpus and Infested too!)

 

* Dead Eye + Rifle Amp + Shotgun Amp are all merged into "Heavy Duty" - Max 30% Primary damage bonus

* Pistol Amp - Max 30% Secondary damage bonus

* Rifle Scavenger renamed "Scavenger" - Max 150% Primary ammo pickup bonus

* Pistol Scavenger renamed "Vulture" - Max 150% Secondary ammo pickup bonus

* Shotgun Scavenger renamed "Survivalist" - Max 90% Energy+Health orb pickup bonus

* Sniper Scavenger renamed XXXX - (Not done with this one yet, could be merged with Shotgun Scavenger)

* Speed Holster renamed "Barrier" - 120% Shield bonus and 60% Shield regen bonus (Baseline weapon swapping speed GREATLY improved, as weaponswapping speed is currently unnecessarily long + Speed Holster is a bad bandaid for that issue)

* Physique - 120% Health bonus and +60 armor (not percentage, but flat armor)

* Infested Impedence renamed "Impeding Presence" - Now a naramon-aura (Dash), Max 18% movement speed reduction (against ANY faction)

* Corrosive Projection renamed "Piercing Presence" - Now a madurai-aura (V), Max 30% armor, shields and aurabonuses reduced (against ANY faction - Infested can get armor from Swarm MOAs - The aurareduction works against any type of enemy auras, like those from Infested Ancients and any Eximus unit)

* Shield Disruption renamed "Disrupting Presence" - Now a vazarin-aura (D), Max 18% chance for any enemy attack to miss you (against ANY faction)

* EMP Aura renamed "Metal Guard" - Max 18% reduction to all physical damage taken

* Electric/Toxin/Fire Resistance + Frost Insulation + Laser Deflection merged into "Elemental Guard" - Max 24% reduction to all elemental damage taken (Includes resisting some of the shield reduction on ice levels!)

* Affinity Amp - Max 24% affinity bonus

* Sprint Boost - Max 18% sprint bonus

 

REGULAR WARFRAME MODS

* Acrobat

Removed, but it sparked some new ideas for me (quicker rolls and dodges, which have been added to the new parkour mods)

 

* Marathon

Removed, but it sparked a very simple idea which could be added as a new mod

Energy Surge - Modcost 4-9, Regenerates 0,1-0,6 energy per second (Basicly, a non-aura version of Energy Siphon)

 

Quick Rest

Removed, but it sparked a very simple idea which could be added as a new mod

Quick Rest - Modcost 4-9, Regenerates 0,5-3,0 health per second (Basicly, a non-aura version of Rejuvenation)

 

* Mobilize

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 5-20% to Bullet Jump, Wall Latch, Aim Glide, Rolls and Dodges

 

* Elemental Parkour mods (Firewalker, Lightning Dash, Ice Spring, Toxic Flight)

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 6-24% to Bullet Jump, Wall Latch, Aim Glide, Rolls and Dodges, Bonus 60-360% Elemental damage on Bullet Jump

 

* Physical Parkour mods (Rending Turn, Piercing Step, Battering Maneuver)

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 6-24% to Bullet Jump, Wall Latch, Aim Glide, Rolls and Dodges, Bonus 60-360% Physical damage on Bullet Jump

 

* Reflex Guard

Modcost 2-12, Bonus 4-44% to autoparry any frontal attack

Note: Chances nerfed due to the Stamina removal and Blocking changes

Note 2: This animation should not interrupt your actions (it should look blurry like the dodging of the Agents in Matrix!)

Note 3: Possibly made into a Melee mod?

 

* Reflection

Possibly made into a Melee mod?

 

* Elemental mods (Antitoxin, Flame Repellant, Insulation, Lightning Rod, Warm Coat)

All merged into one mod, "Hazard Suit"

Modcost 2-7, Bonus 6-36% resistance to all elemental damage (Includes resisting some of the shield reduction on icy levels!)

Note; To make it a bit more interesting and balanced, this mod should probably not be equippable at the same time as Diamond Skin?

 

* Diamond Skin

Modcost 2-7, Bonus 4-24% resistance to all physical damage

Note; To make it a bit more interesting and balanced, this mod should probably not be equippable at the same time as Hazard Suit?

 

* Aviator

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 7,5-30% resistance to all damage while airborne + personal gravity reduced by 7,5-30%

Note; With its gravitychanger, it shouldn't remain an exclusive mod imo (I have it myself, so no bias!)

 

* Shield Flux

Removed, but it sparked an idea which could be added as a new mod

Shield Flux - Modcost 10-13, Shields to Energy when out of Energy, with a 5-20% conversion efficiency. However, after converting energy this way it also increases the shield regeneration delay by 1 additional second per each 100 shields converted.

Note: This means, each 1 energy costs between 20 and 5 shields, thus an ultimate would cost between 2000 and 500 shields. If you use 1000 shields, then you will have to wait 13 seconds (3 base + 10 conversion penalty) before your shields start regenerating again

Note 2: Should proabably be changed into a rare mod, along with being acquirable outside of transmutation somehow

Note 3: Shield Flux won't work unless you have enough shields to actually convert to the energy cost.

Note 4: This shield-to-energy exchange should probably NOT be affected by Power Efficiency mods?

Note 5: Should it work in combination with Quick Thinking (i.e. Shields can be converted into Energy to keep you from dieing when taking health damage)?

 

* Heavy Impact

Remains the same, but can now also be 100% triggered upon ANY melee groundslam, no matter the height of the jump!

 

* Retribution

Modcost 6-9, 10-40% chance to electrocute enemies who are attacking your shields, as long as the attacker is within a 2-8 meter range of you

Note; Makes it far more useful, due to not only proccing from melee attacks, but from ANY enemy attack, they just have to be within range for it to be able to proc. Should probably get a short cooldown between procs though?

 

* Intruder

Modcost 2-5, Automatically hacks 1-4 parts in a hacking puzzle (which you CANNOT unhack by accident either, displayed by having different colour) + you and your Sentinel remain invisible for up to 2-8 seconds after initiating a hack (removed as soon as you finish the hacking though)

Note: That means if a hacking devicae has 4 or less parts to hack, this mod can INSTANTLY hack it (acting like a free cipher!)

 

* Shock Absorbers (gets merged with Resilient Focus, either of their name is fine)

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 8-32% damage reduction from all sources while not under control (knocked down, stunned, whatever) or when affected by any kind of status effect.

 

* Sure Footed

Values remain the same, but now works against any staggers too (such as those from Volatile Runners and Rollers etc)

 

* Provoked

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 0,25-1% damage dealt from all sources for each 2% health missing. Full effect (12,5-50%) is then granted when in bleedout.

Note; Gives it a powerful non-bleedout useage, while still retaining its old function as well

 

* Undying Will

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 25-100% bleedout duration

Note; Base change should add that for each kill you do during bleedout, you get +10% of total bleedout duration added back so allies / your Sentinel (with the right mods) can get more time to ressurect you.

 

**** Now for the more difficult section - The general survivability-mods and all the powermods ****

* Just like enemy defensive scaling goes down, so does their offensive scaling, thus the benefit of our defensive mods could also need some toning down.

* Power Efficiency now works differently: Currently, it plainly reduces energy cost by the said amount, which is very different from how all other mods work in this game (and is the only one to require a cap). This formula is downright overpowered and this is how it currently works:

1) 50% efficiency bonus = 100% actual efficiency bonus since you can cast twice as often

2) 75% efficiency bonus = 300% actual efficiency bonus since you can cast FOUR as often

The formula I suggest is to make it work like all other bonuses in this game:

1) 50% efficiency = 50% actual efficiency bonus, since you can cast 50% more often (Cost = Old cost / 1,5)

2) 75% efficiency = 75% actual efficiency bonus, since you can cast 75% more often (Cost = Old cost / 1,75)

This new formula also doesn't necessitate an efficiency-cap, because it's pretty much impossible to reach an ability cost of 0.

* Corrupted mods - I'm still not sure how WARFRAME corrupt mods should behave: Should they behave like they do currently (being stackable with their regular counterpart), or should they get the same change as the weapon corrupted mods, that they cannot be equipped at the same time as its basic counterpart (such as Serration + Heavy Caliber doesn't work)? Considering the existance of Primed powermods (such as Primed Continuity and possibly other new ones in the future), I guess I will leave Warframe corrupted mods stackable.

 

* Vitality

Modcost 2-12, Bonus 25-275% health bonus

 

* Redirection

Modcost 4-14, Bonus 25-275% shield bonus

 

* Fast Deflection

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 15-90% faster shield recharge + recharge delay

Note: What I mean is, it also quickens up your recharge delay, so the shield regen starts sooner. At max rank, the recharge delay is reduced from 3 seconds to ~1,58 seconds (3 / 1,9).

Note 2: Stacking it with Fortitude reduces the shield recharge delay from 3 seconds to ~ 1,11 seconds (3 / 2,7)

 

* Steel Fiber

Modcost 4-14, Bonus 5-55 + 7-77% armor (both a FLAT bonus AND a percent of your Warframe's base armor. Percent is applied first)

This change would be a nerf to the tankiest of Warframes and a buff on the most frail ones. Which sounds balanced.

 

* Armored Agility

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 2,5-15% sprint speed, Bonus 5-30 + 5-30% armor (both a FLAT bonus AND a percent of your Warframe's base armor. Percent is applied first)

This change would be a nerf to the tankiest of Warframes and a buff on the most frail ones. Which sounds balanced.

 

* Vigor

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 25-150% shield and health bonus

 

* Constitution

Modcost 8-11, Bonus 10-40% knockdown recovery speed, Bonus 25-100% energy maximum

Note; Changed to have a Nightmare mod that works with the energy system which is NOT biased towards a specific power-component. Energy maximum is the least biased of them all (and makes 2 of the 3 Nightmare mods more neatly split, as they  give more to the max cap of a specific system: Vigor for health/shields and Constitution for energy)

 

* Fortitude

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 20-80% faster shield recharge + recharge delay, Bonus 5-20% chance to resist knockdowns (and just like on Sure Footed, the knockdown resistance chance now also works against any staggers too (such as those from Volatile Runners and Rollers etc)

Note: Just like it was changed on Fast Deflection, it now also quickens up your recharge delay, so the shield regen starts sooner. At max rank, the recharge delay is reduced from 3 seconds to ~1,67 seconds (3 / 1,8).

Note 2: Stacking it with Fortitude reduces the shield recharge delay from 3 seconds to ~ 1,11 seconds (3 / 2,7)

 

* All regular powermods (Stretch, Intensify, Continuity, Streamline)

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 5-30% of their respective bonuses

 

* All Corrupted powermods (Fleeting Expertise, Narrowminded, Overextended, Blind Rage, Transient Fortitude)

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 10-60% of their respective bonuses, 5-30% on their respective penalties

 

EDIT:

--- SPLITTING COMBAT AND UTILITYMODS - THOUGHTS ON THAT ---

Sooo, DE have added a utilityslot (at least for Warframes), named Exilus. This is totally AWESOME, imo.

 

However, I'm still proposing what I've always suggested before:

Give us more Exilus-slots for utility on EVERYTHING moddable (on Warframes, Archwings, Sentinels, Kubrows and Weapons alike). Say, 2 or 3 slots by default, and the 3rd/4th slot can be unlocked with the item from Simaris. Furthermore, give these Exilus-slots their own modpoint pool, something like 1 point per rank (so 30 points when your item is max rank, unaffected by Reactors and Catalysts, but still forma'ble)

 

This would TRULY allows us to seperate the competition between damage vs utility/QoL. The modding would then instead be combat vs combat and utility vs utility!

 

Think about these options when you mod for a weapon, for example:

 

In the 8 old regular combat-slots - Maybe add punchthrough? Go for a physical build (which should be viable)? Maybe try a speedy high-fire-rate build? A critbuild (which is now generally more useful, due to how I suggested crits work with headshots and stealth)? A statusheavy build, maybe more focused for one element/physical damagetype, in particular now when the plain statusmods are buffed? Or even go for a simple rainbow build? Or go for a min-max anti-corpus/grineer/infested/whatever build?

 

In the 3 or 4 utilityslots - Quicker reload? Bigger magazine (or even a MUCH bigger magazine with the corrupted magazine mod, but at the cost of some reloadspeed)? Lots more spare ammo? Ammo mutator? Zoom/Range/AoE-mods for longer/bigger range? Recoil reduction? Silence my weapon? Use the newly suggested accuracymods? More/less bounces on certain weapons (Penta, Tonkor, all throwing weapons etc)? Or for melee weapons, more reach? Channeling efficiency? And so on...

 

So many options and so much possible variety! Isn't that what we ALL want? Min-maxers can do their thing. People that like lots of variety and customization can do their thing. EVERYBODY WINS! :D

 

To be more specific, here is how I would sort all mods:

 

*** Weapons ***

* Combat mods (goes for Dual/Primed/Corrupted/Channeling/etc mods too, if at least one of the bonuses adjusts the following):

Damage (base, physical, elemental, first shot bonus, faction bonus, explosion bonus, explosions on death etc), Fire rate, Multishot, Punchthrough, Critical chance, Critical damage multiplier, Status chance, Syndicate Augment mods (no matter its actual bonus), Energy Channel and similar (at least with the buffs suggested), Combo counter increasers (like what I added on Finishing Touch)

 

* Utility mods (goes for Dual/Primed/Corrupted/Channeling/etc mods too, if all of the bonuses adjusts the following):

Magazine size, Max ammo reserves, Ammo mutation, Accuracy, Reload speed (includes Depleted Reload), Recoil, Flight Speed, Zoom, Silencing, Range/Reach/Radius increase, Bounce alteration (adding or reducing), Channeling efficiency, Blocking mods (such as Parry and the new Warrior's Grip), Health replenishing melee mods (= Life Strike and Second Wind), Combo counter utility (like the newly suggested Martial Momentum and Combo Guard)

 

* Unsure:

Status DURATION (is very limitted in use, offensively)

 

*** Warframes/Companions/Archwings ***

* Combat mods (goes for Dual/Primed/Corrupted/etc mods too, if at least one of the bonuses adjusts the following):

Max Shields/Health/Armor/Energy, Shield/Health/Energy regen (including my revamps of Quick Rest and Marathon), Power strength/range/duration/efficiency, Health/Shield/Energy-converters (like Rage, Quick Thinking and my revamp of Shield Flux), Equilibrium, Provoked (due to my suggested buff), Retribution (due to my suggested buff)

 

* Utility mods (goes for Dual/Primed/Corrupted/etc mods too, if all of the bonuses adjusts the following):

Elemental/Physical damage resistance, Conditional damage resistances (Aviator, Shock Absorbers etc), Conditional effect resistances (Rapid Resilience, Handspring, Sure Footed etc), Movement speed boosters of any kind (Maglev, Rush, all new parkour mods etc), Highly situational damage/CC-boosters (like Heavy Impact), Enemy/Loot radar effects, Intruder, Master Thief, Undying Will

 

* Unsure:

Natural Talent (it is good, but is it THAT good to not be considered utility?)

 

--- DAMAGED AND PRIMED MODS - WHAT ABOUT THESE? ---

Damaged mods

Honestly, all of these needs to be removed (for those that have them, just replace them with the regular counterparts). It's NOT nice to the newbies to give them subpar versions of essential mods. Just give them the regular version. It's not like they have tons of cores and credits to fuse them up easily anyway.

 

Primed mods

The primed utility mods are completely fine. But imo, NOT the primed combat mods, since they are just disturbing the balance with unnecessarily added power. This is my list of what should be removed:

* Primed Continuity

* Primed Flow

* Primed Point Blank

* Primed Ravage

* Primed Pistol Gambit

* Primed Heated Charge

* Primed Heavy Trauma

 

Every other (current) primed mod is fine. Obviously, all credits, fusion cores and ducats spent on any removed mod should be given back.

 

So, phew, all that text done, thoughts and opinions?

Edited October 29, 2015 by Azamagon

[UltimateSpinDash]

Didn't read all of the stats, but you definitely put some thought into it. I particularly like the idea of granting Heavy Caliber a higher damage boost in comparison to Serration, at the cost of lower accuracy.

[Nyktelios]

Didn't read all of the stats, but you definitely put some thought into it. I particularly like the idea of granting Heavy Caliber a higher damage boost in comparison to Serration, at the cost of lower accuracy.

 

In fact, many people say in different threads that the corrupted mods were the "begining of the end" of Warframe... but I think that the great overall in game balance can come from those mods. The "only bonus" mods may give a little boost, while the "corrupted" mods shall give you a huge boost but also a little malus. This way your decisions are wider when it comes to build your weapon (If half of your damage comes from a Heavy Caliber mod, for example, you'll have to think twice if use or not a lowering recoil mod...).

The problem with all this, is the appearance of Primed mods, that had messed up any possibility of straighten up things, IMO...

Edited April 6, 2015 by Nyktelios

[Necr0Ra1se]

If DE wants to have a more healthy scaling in Warframe and thus allow flat damagepowers to last longer, we need to tone down enemy defensive scaling (armor mostly). And to be able to do that, we need to tone down our mods, mainly our damage-increasing weaponmods.

 

I know DE logic they can tone down our mods a left enemies how they are now...Don't get me wrong I don't think that are bad in balance! The reason i think they don't have much time for that...

[Azamagon]

Didn't read all of the stats, but you definitely put some thought into it. I particularly like the idea of granting Heavy Caliber a higher damage boost in comparison to Serration, at the cost of lower accuracy.

 

In fact, many people say in different threads that the corrupted mods were the "begining of the end" of Warframe... but I think that the great overall in game balance can come from those mods. The "only bonus" mods may give a little boost, while the "corrupted" mods shall give you a huge boost but also a little malus. This way your decisions are wider when it comes to build your weapon (If half of your damage comes from a Heavy Caliber mod, for example, you'll have to think twice if use or not a lowering recoil mod...).

The problem with all this, is the appearance of Primed mods, that had messed up any possibility of straighten up things, IMO...

Yes, exactly, that's the point - to have choices. You either take a safe mod (regular "only bonus" one) or you take a Corrupted one, which is more powerful, but also has a malus :)

 

And Nyktelios, yes, the Primed mods... urgh, what a poor idea that was. I haven't even tried to balance those as I think they are a mistake in the first place... *sigh*

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I think you need to severely decrease the additional damage provided by elementals and physical damage mods. As it is right now, we essentially use Rainbow builds, and with your suggestions that won't change. Actually, elementals will be even more necessary because they have a bigger bonus proportionally compared to the base damage mods and multishot.

 

There are a few ways to go about it:

1. make elements convert a percentage of the base damage to that element. This runs the risk of making physical damage irrelevant.

2. give mod ranks a multiplier of status chance that changes the likelihood you proc one element: if you had a 10% status weapon, with a 1X multiplier fire status chance and a 3X multiplier viral status chance. But they would do a limited amount of additional base damage, if any.

3. severely nerf the mods. This runs the risk of making them only viable for status builds.

 

I would go with #2, with event mods offering an additional benefit like +status duration/damage.

Edited April 6, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[zoboso]

Yes, exactly, that's the point - to have choices. You either take a safe mod (regular "only bonus" one) or you take a Corrupted one, which is more powerful, but also has a malus :)

 

And Nyktelios, yes, the Primed mods... urgh, what a poor idea that was. I haven't even tried to balance those as I think they are a mistake in the first place... *sigh*

 

did you mean minus instead of malus.

 

also agree that the mod system is messed up, although your idea might make a good stopgap.

[Nyktelios]

Yes, exactly, that's the point - to have choices. You either take a safe mod (regular "only bonus" one) or you take a Corrupted one, which is more powerful, but also has a malus :)

 

And Nyktelios, yes, the Primed mods... urgh, what a poor idea that was. I haven't even tried to balance those as I think they are a mistake in the first place... *sigh*

 

The Primed mods are, in my (sad and pesimistic) opinion, the evidence that DE has no interest in balancing the current mod system. In one side they are telling us that they are working in the balance of mods like Serration or Hornet Strike, but then they appear with a +275% energy mod (Primed Flow)... c'mon man... sounds like they are laughing in our face.

 

Which is a mess, because community works constantly in rebalance ideas like yours, that could give the game a new edge.

[Azamagon]

I think you need to severely decrease the additional damage provided by elementals and physical damage mods. As it is right now, we essentially use Rainbow builds, and with your suggestions that won't change. Actually, elementals will be even more necessary because they have a bigger bonus proportionally compared to the base damage mods and multishot.

 

There are a few ways to go about it:

1. make elements convert a percentage of the base damage to that element. This runs the risk of making physical damage irrelevant.

2. give mod ranks a multiplier of status chance that changes the likelihood you proc one element: if you had a 10% status weapon, with a 1X multiplier fire status chance and a 3X multiplier viral status chance. But they would do a limited amount of additional base damage, if any.

3. severely nerf the mods. This runs the risk of making them only viable for status builds.

 

I would go with #2, with event mods offering an additional benefit like +status duration/damage.

Good point about the damage mods possibly still being too strong.

As for your solutions:

1. Makes elemental modding borderline useless (bar resistances), which is bad too.

2. Not a bad system, actually. But then general status increasing mods would probably have to go / remain quite weak. It would kind of make the element+status mods feel a bit redundant, imo.

Besides, afaik, procs seem to be weighted towards the ones you have more damage off, at least, seemingly so. That's at least my experience

3. This could work too, (like, pure elements at 45% and elem+status at 30%) and I'd prefer that one as it would be a simpler change

 

But I can think of a 4th option too, where the mods can remain more or less as suggested

4. Give us 4 modslots more, PURELY for utility slots (with 30 seperate modpoints, unboosted by reactor/catalyst. These slots can be forma'd though) The remaining 8 slots we already have remain for damage and such, but could possibly still accept utility mods as well.

 

Why this when I have already suggested quite heavy nerf on the damagemods? Well, I don't mind mods giving us damage. It gives a feeling of progression. But I don't like how MUCH damage they give us (since it borks up enemy defensive scaling). Doing this option #4 allows damage-mods to still feel like they do SOMETHING (as in, no need to nerf them even further), without balancing their competition for utility/QoL mods. Balancing damage versus utility/QoL is after all VERY difficult to do, so this solution is far more clear and simple - Utility/QoL simple STOP competing with damagemods in the first place!

 

did you mean minus instead of malus.

 

also agree that the mod system is messed up, although your idea might make a good stopgap.

Minus/Malus/Penalty, semantics :P

 

Yeah, it would make balancing content easier for the developers as the variables are lesser AND fewer (since you can't equip, for example Serration and Heavy Caliber at the same time, so no need to take BOTH into account at once in the content balancing)

 

The Primed mods are, in my (sad and pesimistic) opinion, the evidence that DE has no interest in balancing the current mod system. In one side they are telling us that they are working in the balance of mods like Serration or Hornet Strike, but then they appear with a +275% energy mod (Primed Flow)... c'mon man... sounds like they are laughing in our face.

 

Which is a mess, because community works constantly in rebalance ideas like yours, that could give the game a new edge.

Primed mods are not necessarily THAT bad, it's all about WHICH mods they choose. Primed Flow, while powerful is a lesser evil (it only increases a cap / longevity, not your direct output). Fleeting+Streamline beats it anytime (unless you use Quick Thinking ofc)

 

I'm more concerned about Primed Point Blank/Ravage/Heavy Trauma. They have an actual influence of your damage (particularly Point Blank), which screws up balance.

 

Regardless of that, I don't think they COMPLETELY ignore balancing, it's just that they aren't all too good at it / concerned about it / make it some of it imbalanced intentionally. Why possibly intentional? Well, I suspect the steady powercreep of weapons is probably intentional, because it gives quick money. When they have reaped money from the "newest and shiniest" and time has passed by to such an extent that those items feel semi-old, THEN they balance it somewhat. It's shady, but with patience, things might turn out SOMEWHAT ok... hopefully :/

[themartinc123]

TL:DR plz

[Azamagon]

TL:DR plz

A little disrespectful to get such a comment when you have been writing things so thoroughly, don't you think?

 

EDIT:

To be fair, I did add some better clarity now: All direct modchanges are now bolded and underlined

 

EDIT 2:

Removed the snide remark, was unnecessary

Edited April 7, 2015 by Azamagon

[zoboso]

TL:DR plz

 

TL:DR the ability to stack bonuses create ridiculous bonuses, by causing corrupted mods to conflict with the non-corrupted variant, the mod system will be the potential to be more "balanced." However, without affecting enemy scaling we will feel weaker than our adversaries.

[Azamagon]

TL:DR the ability to stack bonuses create ridiculous bonuses, by causing corrupted mods to conflict with the non-corrupted variant, the mod system will be the potential to be more "balanced." However, without affecting enemy scaling we will feel weaker than our adversaries.

But I did mention that this was partly to make enemy scaling less extreme (and to make flat damage abilities last for a lot longer)

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Good point about the damage mods possibly still being too strong.

As for your solutions:

1. Makes elemental modding borderline useless (bar resistances), which is bad too.

2. Not a bad system, actually. But then general status increasing mods would probably have to go / remain quite weak. It would kind of make the element+status mods feel a bit redundant, imo.

Besides, afaik, procs seem to be weighted towards the ones you have more damage off, at least, seemingly so. That's at least my experience

3. This could work too, (like, pure elements at 45% and elem+status at 30%) and I'd prefer that one as it would be a simpler change

 

But I can think of a 4th option too, where the mods can remain more or less as suggested

4. Give us 4 modslots more, PURELY for utility slots (with 30 seperate modpoints, unboosted by reactor/catalyst. These slots can be forma'd though) The remaining 8 slots we already have remain for damage and such, but could possibly still accept utility mods as well.

 

Why this when I have already suggested quite heavy nerf on the damagemods? Well, I don't mind mods giving us damage. It gives a feeling of progression. But I don't like how MUCH damage they give us (since it borks up enemy defensive scaling). Doing this option #4 allows damage-mods to still feel like they do SOMETHING (as in, no need to nerf them even further), without balancing their competition for utility/QoL mods. Balancing damage versus utility/QoL is after all VERY difficult to do, so this solution is far more clear and simple - Utility/QoL simple STOP competing with damagemods in the first place!

 

I agree with you on 1. With 2, I think additional bonuses that only apply to the statuses (extended duration or increased damage) would be enough for the event mods to not feel redundant. With 3 I don't think your suggestion goes far enough--you'd still need to put every element on because a 30-45% bonus is big when it can be stacked 4+ times.

 

Your 4th suggestion could work, although I think you'd still need one of the first three so that rainbow builds weren't necessary.

 

A fifth alternative would be to leave Serration/pure damage mods as is, and make Heavy Caliber/Corrupted damage mods have a bigger bonus, but then use only those two mods as the main tools for damage progression. That eliminates the need to shoehorn damage into other mods for the sake of progression. And because the game would be balanced around having a properly leveled Serration, enemies can scale precisely with where DE envisions people having the mod, instead of trying to guess what people will have for 8 different damage ones. Although again, one of the first three would have to happen still.

[Nyktelios]

I was rereading your ideas, and tempted to write mine ones in a megapost... then I realized how yours are far more viable that the ones I have (my ideas imply a complete revamp of the system, while yours, having a great impact, doesn't modify essentially the current system).

 

Really, I have to say you have made a great job with your ideas about how mods shall be reworked. Hopefully someone in DE takes a look to you list :)

[Azamagon]

I was rereading your ideas, and tempted to write mine ones in a megapost... then I realized how yours are far more viable that the ones I have (my ideas imply a complete revamp of the system, while yours, having a great impact, doesn't modify essentially the current system).

 

Really, I have to say you have made a great job with your ideas about how mods shall be reworked. Hopefully someone in DE takes a look to you list :)

Wow, thank you, encouraging words :)

 

A sort-of semi-offtopic sidenote

In the latest patch the Cernos got the PBR graphical update and it reminded me: In the current system you have to equip both Critical Delay and Point Strike to make it 100% crit chance. Well, with the mod revamps as suggested, due to not being able to equip both corrupted+regular at once combined with the fact that I buffed Critical Delay (and other corrupted mods ofc) = You only need to equip that mod now for guaranteed crits! Cernos might be a bit more competetive with Dread/Paris Prime, at least a bit more so due to getting one more modslot to use.

 

Which reminds me: I'd also love for the regular Paris to get 35% base crit too, so it would be reliable in crits as well (I can't stand the looks or sounds of the Paris Prime).

[Valar.Morghulis]

Mods not really the problem and should be balanced better, however the current implementation of powers WILL NEVER SCALE.

 

By doing this you will shift the dynamic towards powers but damage based powers will always drop off as viable once they lose their inevitable potency. Thus damage powers will never be as viable at the top end as defensive/crowd control powers. Reducing the effectiveness of defensive/cc powers isn't a good option either since more of those powers effect the group survivability and will further decreasing the effectiveness of damage based frames to survive.

 

Ultimately they need to add power scaling with enemy scaling, reducing the damage mods will only delay the inevitable and not fix the problem.

[Nyktelios]

I always thought (general idea, not a specific feature) that a "rage" system for Warframe, enhacing their abilities when a match gets longer a longer, would be fine.

 

In fact, when melee 2.0 appeared, I loved the idea of the melee multiplier (on more consecutive hits, you get a multiplier to damage, that dissapears after a little time without hitting). I'm pretty sure that thinking a little about it, that same idea can be applied to Warframes.

 

Of course, the implementation of these ideas require in any case to rework the current mods to addapt to an over time scalation.

[Blackjack1405]

Magnum force needs to be boosted. his damage needs to be raised like the hornet strike damage. to be like Serration and heavy caliber.. cuz a elemental mod gives more damage that Magnum force

[Aizeol]

I'm down.  If nothing else, this just seems more interesting and rewarding for skill-based play without being irrelevant for players who have reached the current skill ceiling.

[Kithawk]

In general I like your ideas. However, it might be simpler to fix what most people are complaining about and that is make all the warframe abilities scale better. Just nerfing the damage mods or warframe mods doesn't address the play balance issues which cause some to refer to the frames as tier 1, 2, 3 or 4 frames. My other huge concern is that despite nerfing damage mods you would still find most mods almost never see the light of day. Who is going to put on Warm Coat instead of Serration unless Serration is nerfed to 10% max damage.

 

As someone in the chain pointed out maybe we need to create a separate section of Mod slots for utility mods. I'd suggest two options have three tiers of mods A, B C. ranked on usefulness. Alternatively you could designate the slots for categories like Defense, Offense, Mobility, Energy etc. To be clear I'm also suggesting many more slots like keep the current 8 slots for tier A but add another 4-6 for B and 4-6 for C with extra power only available for those tiers. If working with the categories maybe keep 6-8 for offense but add 4-6 for defense 2-4 for mobility and 2-4 for energy and so on. Ending up with maybe 20 mods per frame and 12-16 per weapon.

 

The weapon slots would be much better off with the tiers than categories. Since everything pretty much relates to damage/offense. But if you had a tier B or C which included clip size and max ammo or reloading and had 2-4 slots for that then those mods would finally get used. Right now most everyone is using 2 damage maybe a shred a multishot and a rainbow of elements. 

[Racercowboy]

Well, a lot of thought was certainly put into this. Would be simple (compared to a most other things) to implement and solves a lot of useless mods being useless. Was a very long read, but certainly was worth it. +1 from me.

 

EDIT: Due to time and schedule constraints, I linked your thread in the new livestream Q and A thread. I hope you do not mind.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Racercowboy

[Azamagon]

Mods not really the problem and should be balanced better, however the current implementation of powers WILL NEVER SCALE.

 

By doing this you will shift the dynamic towards powers but damage based powers will always drop off as viable once they lose their inevitable potency. Thus damage powers will never be as viable at the top end as defensive/crowd control powers. Reducing the effectiveness of defensive/cc powers isn't a good option either since more of those powers effect the group survivability and will further decreasing the effectiveness of damage based frames to survive.

 

Ultimately they need to add power scaling with enemy scaling, reducing the damage mods will only delay the inevitable and not fix the problem.

Mods ARE part of the problem, actually.

That damage powers will fall off eventually, well, I agreed upon that. ALL powers need scalability of some kind, wether its something as simple as adding a stagger or doing something more complex. I have never mentioned reducing the effectiveness of defensive/cc powers though, you are the first to mention that :P

 

While these changes will delay the inevitable, that powers too will fall off some time, it at least evens the field between abilities and weapons, which is a good thing for the longevity of the game, making them more comparable. Abilities and weapons, as well as enemies scale on such entirely different levels right now, that it is very hard to even compare them.

 

The "overall" balance I think would be the healthiest for the game would look like this:

* Weapons deal X damage, and are frequent in use, generally more for taking out targets one at a time.

* Abilities are less frequent in use (requires balancing energy/power efficiency too) but, in contrast they either 1) deal similar/higher damage to weapons, more often in AoE-style than weapons and/or 2) provides various powerful utility, buffs, CC etc

 

I always thought (general idea, not a specific feature) that a "rage" system for Warframe, enhacing their abilities when a match gets longer a longer, would be fine.

 

In fact, when melee 2.0 appeared, I loved the idea of the melee multiplier (on more consecutive hits, you get a multiplier to damage, that dissapears after a little time without hitting). I'm pretty sure that thinking a little about it, that same idea can be applied to Warframes.

 

Of course, the implementation of these ideas require in any case to rework the current mods to addapt to an over time scalation.

I guess that's one form of making them scale better :)

Personally I would prefer if all abilities had something that makes them scale, such as staggers, procs and similar. It's just much easier to implement imo.

 

Magnum force needs to be boosted. his damage needs to be raised like the hornet strike damage. to be like Serration and heavy caliber.. cuz a elemental mod gives more damage that Magnum force

Well, if you checked the suggestions, I did buff it of course:

 

* Base damage mods (Serration, Hornet Strike, Point Blank)

Modcost 4-14, Bonus 5-55% damage

 

* Corrupted base damage mods (Heavy Caliber, Magnum Force, Vicious Spread)

Modcost 4-14, Bonus 7-77% damage, 3-33% accuracy penalty

 

It's more powerful than Hornet Strike, but it has an accuracy penalty. And since I suggested that you can't equip both the Corrupted mods and its regular part at once ( = you can't equip Magnum Force and Hornet Strike at once), you have to choose: Reliable damage (Hornet Strike) or more power, but with some penalty to it (Magnum Force).

 

I'm down.  If nothing else, this just seems more interesting and rewarding for skill-based play without being irrelevant for players who have reached the current skill ceiling.

Thanks :)

 

1) In general I like your ideas. However, it might be simpler to fix what most people are complaining about and that is make all the warframe abilities scale better. Just nerfing the damage mods or warframe mods doesn't address the play balance issues which cause some to refer to the frames as tier 1, 2, 3 or 4 frames.

 

2) My other huge concern is that despite nerfing damage mods you would still find most mods almost never see the light of day. Who is going to put on Warm Coat instead of Serration unless Serration is nerfed to 10% max damage.

As someone in the chain pointed out maybe we need to create a separate section of Mod slots for utility mods. I'd suggest two options have three tiers of mods A, B C. ranked on usefulness. Alternatively you could designate the slots for categories like Defense, Offense, Mobility, Energy etc. To be clear I'm also suggesting many more slots like keep the current 8 slots for tier A but add another 4-6 for B and 4-6 for C with extra power only available for those tiers. If working with the categories maybe keep 6-8 for offense but add 4-6 for defense 2-4 for mobility and 2-4 for energy and so on. Ending up with maybe 20 mods per frame and 12-16 per weapon.

 

The weapon slots would be much better off with the tiers than categories. Since everything pretty much relates to damage/offense. But if you had a tier B or C which included clip size and max ammo or reloading and had 2-4 slots for that then those mods would finally get used. Right now most everyone is using 2 damage maybe a shred a multishot and a rainbow of elements. 

1) Warframe abilities indeed a bit more work to make them scale a bit better. But it DOES make them last way longer, since weapons don't outscale them so insanely quickly.

Warframe abilities, ALL of them, have LOTS of issues. Not just lacking in scalability, but also with huge quality-of-life issues, such as Power-in-use restrictions on abilities that really don't need them (most abilities actually, but very notably: Tentacle Swarm, Tempest Barrage, Tornado etc), which just promotes building for negative duration like if that negative part was something good. Really dumb design. I have tried to fix that too...

 

2) I have promoted that myself actually, long time ago too. I'd just split it in two simple groups: Combat and Utility. The restrictions are very easy too

* If a mod for weapons improves burst dps by a signigicant margin (such as rate of fire), increases its damage, or adds puncthrough -> Combat

* If a mod for weapons helps with utility, or with QoL-issues, even if they might help a bit with sustained dps (reload, magsize, silence, recoil etc) -> Utility

* If a mod for Warframes helps directly to sustain/improve your powers (Rage, Equilibrium, Power Range etc)  or gives you a non-niched powerful survivability (like shields, armor, health, Quick Thinking etc) -> Combat

* If a mod for Warframes helps with utility, or with QoL-issues, or with highly niched survivability (Aviator, Elemental resistance etc) -> Utility

* For Warframes there would be a third group too -> Augments (speaks for itself)

As a little sidenote, I did actually merge Warm Coat and all elemental resistances into ONE mod - Giving resistance to ALL elemental damage + reducing the shield penalty on ice levels). I'd consider this a highly niched survivability mod, thus it would be utility.

 

I'd say: Give us 8 combatslots and 4 utilityslots (and 4 augmentslots, one for each ability, since we are getting multiple augments for EACH ability in the future). This gives us enough potential for TONS of personal customization (which is always a lot of fun indeed)

 

While your ideas could work too, I feel your groupings are too restrictive and gives TOO many modding slots too. But hey, just my honest opinion on it :)

 

NOTE: This is also why I suggested the crit mechanics to also be related to stealth and weakspots more. It allows you to mod more for skillful play, so even with Combat slots being all about damage, with such changes I think we would see more differetiation there too!

 

 

Well, a lot of thought was certainly put into this. Would be simple (compared to a most other things) to implement and solves a lot of useless mods being useless. Was a very long read, but certainly was worth it. +1 from me.

 

EDIT: Due to time and schedule constraints, I linked your thread in the new livestream Q and A thread. I hope you do not mind.

Thank you for the kind words and for taking the time to read it all! :)

 

And I don't mind that you added it to the Livestream Q&A at all! I'd just be glad if they actually paid attention to it (which I sorrily enough doubt though :/)

[DSpite]

Hold on. Why not just change the enemy curve so that the current level 30 enemies have the stats of the level 50 enemies, and suddenly the higher planets are scary even to people with 1-2 Forma guns?

 

Right now unless we get Alerts with 40+ level enemies, we don't even bother taking our decent Frames. I can just add a high Forma gun to a level 10 Frame, and a low rank zero melee weapon that I want affinity on, and just pay SLIGHTLY more attention.

 

I took a Level 15 Mesa into a level 30+ Alert MD, and did fine - notice I did have a 4 Forma Boltor Prime, because I still NEED to kill stuff -  I got dropped once trying to help someone else that dropped. It was a bit hectic, had to run a lot, once I hid in a service duct :) but it was manageable. All that happens is that the incoming damage needs to be managed by NOT standing still like we normally do.

 

All I am saying is that with the current level 30 units, with "normal" 30 Frames and a half decent gun we clean house.

 

Why not rescale the enemy units so that Level 30 units are dangerous to Level 30 Frames? Pretty sure 4 <anything> Frames with 0-Forma Bratons could speed run any mission against L30 enemy units.

Edited April 10, 2015 by DSpite

[zoboso]

Hold on. Why not just change the enemy curve so that the current level 30 enemies have the stats of the level 50 enemies, and suddenly the higher planets are scary even to people with 1-2 Forma guns?

 

Right now unless we get Alerts with 40+ level enemies, we don't even bother taking our decent Frames. I can just add a high Forma gun to a level 10 Frame, and a low rank zero melee weapon that I want affinity on, and just pay SLIGHTLY more attention.

 

I took a Level 15 Mesa into a level 30+ Alert MD, and did fine - notice I did have a 4 Forma Boltor Prime, because I still NEED to kill stuff -  I got dropped once trying to help someone else that dropped. It was a bit hectic, had to run a lot, once I hid in a service duct :) but it was manageable. All that happens is that the incoming damage needs to be managed by NOT standing still like we normally do.

 

All I am saying is that with the current level 30 units, with "normal" 30 Frames and a half decent gun we clean house.

 

Why not rescale the enemy units so that Level 30 units are dangerous to Level 30 Frames? Pretty sure 4 <anything> Frames with 0-Forma Bratons could speed run any mission against L30 enemy units.

 

I agree, however the problem you are illuminating is cause by the mod progression OP is trying to recommend a change for. As far as it can tell, the mod system is the section of the basement that got flooded when the water rose, and nobody wants to go snorkeling down there to identify which sections of the concrete have taken water damage due to our guns still being flooded with damage.