It's Time To Balance Our Mods

[zoboso]

Marathon should probably be increasing a warframe's base movement speed to make everything faster while not sprinting.

[EinheriarJudith]

The point is that the game should be more closely balanced around player skill and mechanics than the mods.  Because of the extreme difference in power between new players and "veterans", balancing content is a nightmare.  We should definitely have some kind of increase in power that makes end-level content impossible without good gear, but the difference doesn't need to be quite as drastic if the game required more skill from the player. (Other than trying to dodge hit-scan aimbots)

 

i agree with this completely. they changed healer ancients so they reduce damage surrounding units take near it and now it seems people have forgotten how to play. all so they could make the void more difficult. T1 and T2 = me having to carry most of the time its a pain.

[Zeyez]

i saw most of it and i agree with most of it, besides the general nerf, after all, reducing our own power, can allow some more customization, plus some  tweaking in enemy levels

 

the things that i dislike, somewhat:

icestorm Bulletstorm, because this one have the same issue than Metal Auger and Shred: we don't need this amount of punchthrough, just half of it, little exception for snipers and burston prime (because his augment)

 

Speed Holster, sometimes, is really useful have a aura that increase the switch speed, especially if you have 2 weapons to deal with different situations, like:

Ogris + sidegun, as immortal trinity, using ogris to reduce her own health to 2 and using Blessing, while the timer still counting, take back her sidegun (marelok, atomos, spectra, akmagnum...)

Grinlok (radiation) + sidegun (corrosive+fire/cold), useful if you need AoE radiation (perrin exclusive mod) against crowd of enemies or just... irradiate the ancestral corrupted, but you still can use your sidegun to deal more damage in other situations

 

Physique, Steel Fiber and Armored Agility giving flat armor... I'm not against adding this, by the way, this effect exists in the Reckoning augment, but 3 mods can give too much resistance for a warframe role is supposed to be weak against damage (like Zephyr, she have a lot of health(450 health at level 30), but only 15 armor, using all of them can raise her armor to 385 armor, its more than Chroma)

at least, keep only one of them in flat amount, but others...

 

...

 

i did something like this before

maybe you can use here:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/465176-a-small-large-change-in-underpowered-mods-in-general/

some samples:

 

Intruder: Instead of giving only extra seconds to hack, give some additional effects

 

- for everything

from rank 2, each level give 5% chances to auto-hack (like using cipher, without waste the cipher) [max 20%] {doesn't work in the Spy's data terminal}

each level, reduce the perception's range of the enemies at unalerted state by 5% [max 30%] {only works on yourself}

at max rank, reduce one difficulty level of the hacking game

in spy missions, each level give 1 additional second before the data being purged (can stack in team) [max 6-24 seconds]

in mobile defense, each level reduce the timer to extract the data at each terminal by 2% (can stack in team) [max 12-48%] {make Lotus works faster, because she is too lazy playing tic-tac-toe/sollitaire/chess...}

 

- for corpus hack panel:

give 1 seconds each level to hack the puzzle (as usual)

 

- for grinner hack panel:

at rank 2, if you mistake the tile already triggered, this one will not reset his state (1 time only)

at rank 4, reduce the spin speed by 25% and the marker doesn't change the spin direction every time you pick one tile

 

 

Thunderbolt: a great useful mod previously, nerfed to below the ground... let's bring this one to his former glory

changing the mechanics, instead of 30% to explode, dealing 250 radius damage:

 

- can change between normal arrow and Thunderbolt's arrow by pressing reload button ("R" in pc warframe)

- allow every arrow deals additional 20% of the bow's total damage (count serration and elementals, but doesn't count body multipliers or criticals) as radius damage

- keep the remaining stats (10 meters radius, blast damage type, doesn't trigger if hit one ally...)

- cost 4 ammo per shoot while using Thunderbolt's arrow

 

with this kind of concept, it could create new mods that modify the functioning the arrows of the bows in future

 

ps.: its not so different from your concept, but i'm adding the possibility to change arrows types in-mission

 

 

 

other topic, focused on mod creation:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/447733-some-new-mod-ideas-from-common-to-corrupted-and-beyond/

 

some samples:

 

- Friction Capacitance (Meele): Uncommon, 5 ranks, polarity Vazarin (D)

on max rank: 

+3 +4 energy per uncharged hit

recharge 2% damage dealt to your shield, uncharged and charged hits (its not possible overshield by this way)

9 points

 

Shield Stabilizer (Warframe): Rare, 5 ranks, polarity Vazarin (D)

+90% shield capacity

- give magnetic proc immunity (you don't lose your energy or reduce the maximum amount, but still receive additional damage)

- give cold proc and hazard immunity (you don't lose half of the shield at frozen maps, but still receive additional damage against cold damage)

- while the shield is functioning, you don't suffer any common stun effect (blast procs or radial blast) or slowed by Mutalist Moa goo, but still can be pulled by scorpion or paralyzed by nauseous crawler

- forbidden the use together with Redirection and/or Vigor

- reduce the Overshield limit from 1200 to 600

- 14 points

 

 

Reactive Protection (Warframe): Uncommon, 3 ranks, polarity Madurai (V)

- reduce the shield recharge delay time by 25%

- when your shield is depleted, deals 33% shield of the maximum shield as impact damage and proc (doesn't count overshield) [affected by power strenght]

- 10 meter radius [affected by power range]

- It reflects all the bullets in that area to the source for 1 second [not affected by power duration]

- 75 seconds cooldown

- 25 energy to activate (can't be activated if you don't have this energy amount)[not affected by power efficiency]

11 points

 

its a last breath mod, useful if you don't have Guardian (sentinel) or want to put some "offensive protection" on yourself

 

 

 

It is somewhat scattered on the topic, but these samples are good enough to show, as a concept

[Azamagon]

 

-snip-

First of all, thanks for the feedback and suggestions. Much appreciated! :)

 

Bulletstorm - What do you mean here? You mean that Shred/Bulletstorm/Seeking Fury maybe should have a bit less punchthrough so the base punchthrough mods are more valuable? Please note that I reduced the modcost for the regular versions (max rank costs 11), if that is something you haven't considered

 

Speed Holster - I totally understand the benefit of swapping faster. But as I mentioned on its revamp, baseline swapping speed should be MUCH quicker (near instant, imo). Speed Holster, as a concept, is a bad concept of a mod, swapping speed should simply be GREAT from the get-go, so we actually want to swap weapons more often mid-combat than we do now. And not just when modded for it, that's bad design.

 

Physique / Steel Fiber / Armoured Agility - Yeah, I can see where you are coming from. A possible alternative is that armor mods increase BOTH by a moderate percentage AND with a flat moderate value. That way, the mod still has uses for the fragile characters (due to the flat value), while not being too strong on them while ALSO still being greater for the tankier characters. Example values:

 

Steel Fiber currently grants 110% more armor. I first suggested 220 flat armor. Instead, make it grant you 55% of base + and additional 110 flat armor after that. Does that sound like a better idea? :)

 

As for your own suggestions, there is one thing that I immediately think when I see what they do: Too much. It simply feels that they provide too many things at once. The ideas aren't all bad, but imagine the descriptions :/

 

My feedback though:

 

Intruder - Well, no matter what, this mod needs buffing (even if we would get the utility slots purely for utility mods, this mod would STILL not see much useage). Most of the ideas you suggest all sounds awesome for it, but how would one fit all that into the description?

The only bonus I don't see necessary is reducing the level of the hacking. Sounds a bit unnecessary, considering the "more time" / "won't cancel grineer hack once" bonuses

I don't like the "slower spin / don't turn" bonuses either, as that can make the hacks too slow (at least the slowdown), if you are already good at hacking them.

 

Thunderbolt - Interesting to utilize the reloadbutton to swap arrows... It's indeed similar to mine, but the ability to swap the arrowtype midmission is a really cool utility! As long as it doesn't swap when we cancel a draw (which I do quite often), I wouldn't mind such a mechanic at all! I don't mind your suggested mechanic (the arrow-swap thing), but I dunno if I support the numbers and such. I'd rather keep it simpler: When toggled on, the arrows turn PURELY explosive, but weaker (say 35% damage?), but now deal AoE damage and with no punchthrough, still just costing one arrow each. That way, you have to adapt wether you want strong punchthrough arrows (better for single targets and lines), or if you want weaker AoE-arrows (good for clustered groups). Overall though, neat idea! :)

 

Friction Capacitance - Both restoring shields AND energy in the same mod sounds too good. As two seperate (utility) mods though, sure.

 

Shield Stabilizer - Too many things at once. Let me go through each, one by one:

1) Well first of all, I feel all procs need much rebalancing. Magnetic procs on players is currently insanely OP, while horribly subpar on enemies. Magnetic procs should only stop abilitycasting (for enemies too, their abilities, auras etc, maybe also very briefly stun them?), scramble our hud and heavily disrupt our shields (for enemies too ofc), possibly also with SOME energyloss (but not 100% wiping of energy, that's just absurdly strong!). So with that premise, Magnetic immunity wouldn't be so saught after.

2) Cold and cold hazard immunity feels unnecessary. Warm Coat (even if I merged it and all elemental resistances into one mod, called Hazard Suit now), would then be pointless.

3) No stun while shields are up greatly devalues Sure Footed, Handspring and other similar mods.

So, overall, a pure "no" to this mod. Sorry.

 

Reactive Protection - Once again, too many things in one mod.

1) Shield recharge delay sounds good as a seperate mod. I see where you are coming from though, you want this mod to help with SOMETHING outside of only giving you a passive panic-helper. So, maybe it could stay, dunno.

2) The idea that when shields are depleted, you release an AoE, dealing damage based on your max shieldvalues, is a great idea. And that's all what this mod should do, imo. That's good enough. And no need to interact with power strength/range either, it's not a power after all.

3) Shield deflection after the explosion... well, yeah, that maybe is ok, to give you some breathing room. But not more.

4) A bit long cooldown, no? 30 seconds would be fine imo.

5) No need for an energycost. That would make this mod trash-tier.

 

So, overall, this could certainly be added, yes. A simple explosion upon shield-depletion with a moderate cooldown, MAYBE helping passively with something minor such as reducing the shieldrecharge a bit, and DEFINITELY without an energycost upon the explosion.

[Zeyez]

after some net issues and my notebook restarted after write more than 70% of the text... i will try do it again:

 

Bulletstorm:

yes, because there's a little incentive to use the original mod when you barely hit, with 1 bullet, more than 3 targets, and this amount of Punchthrough (1.2m) is enough for that, with only few exceptions, like fully charged Lanka, bows and burston prime (because of his exclusive mod) and Snipertron series

maybe 0.7-0.8m can be more balanced, just enough for 1 random object/ally and still hit the enemy

if the players wants even more punchthrough, he can use Seeker/Metal Auger/Seeking Force

 

always offer an opportunity for the mods can be used, right?

 

Speed Holster:

 

ok... probably i forgot to check this part... >_<

 

 

Physique / Armored Agility / Steel Fiber:

 

basically, that

after all, there is already a small gain of damage reduction due to its own calculation, and some players that play with resilient warframes (Valkyr, Chroma, Excalibur) maybe they can get a bit more of resistance to keep them alive (changing his play style to fit one mod, like your modified mod Provoked)

 

 

 

my feedback about your feedback from my feedback (funny, i know):

 

the initial idea which was adopted that there are effects that you can not simply balance with others by itself, being necessary to combine between them, within reasonable values

example: Fast Deflection isn't a great mod to be used (increase the speed of the shield regeneration by 90%, but doesn't reduce the delay between the damage and the regeneration), but Fortitude is more reasonable (besides of the Rng involved)

if you raise the Fast Deflection to 300%, its become powerful

 

certainly i exaggerated, in some parts, for putting more than 3 effects in a single mod, but the initial idea was to "throw everything up and let them choose what fits best"

because everything was a concept created for the actual mod system, not yours

 

 

well, now to the mods:

Intruder:

as i wrote before, isn't supposed to apply everthing, i was trying to empty my ideas for this mod and the others

and beyond than that, i was trying to give some more utility outside of the panel hack, like Mobile Defense missions, where we carry one datamass to drop in the terminals, allowing the others, outside the mission, hack for us (Lotus, Darvo...)

 

 

Thunderbolt:

i though about it after i saw one topic brainstorming some ideas for bow buffs, like Scattershot (+% multishot, -%accuracy), "a arrow carrying some kind of net"...

so i tried something that can allow the player change between normal arrow and the special one, after all, we only use reload on bows preserve ammo, if you have not managed the aim in time, out that we could not create new buttons for this due to the ps4/xone port and the zoom button is essential for this type of weapon

this idea can open for some more concepts as arrow modifiers, like Flash arrow (consume more ammunition, less damage, but can blind the enemies for small amount of time), Ricoshot (remove punchthrough, allow the arrow bounce through the terrain...) but you only can use 1 arrow modifier mod each time

 

 

Friction Capacitance:

i wasn't though about being overpowered, at first, because i was considering the "increased amount of stamina drained" as something that can become this mod more reasonable, at same time, giving some utility for weapons that can hit really fast (giving a lot of energy) or restoring your shields (high DPS), as new Vazarin (D) mod... well, the stamina system will be removed and beyond than that, all of my mods was trying to keep the pace with the actual mod system

 

its possible to split theses attributes and maybe, reduce the energy amount earned to 2-3 energy per uncharged hit

 

 

Shield Stabilizer:

was a alternative for Redirection/Vigor that you spend some of your shield to give some passive protection against the enemies/map, and at same time, doing what you are doing now: mod restriction

there was health version, called Juggernaut, that make you even stronger while you keep your health low (besides give health regeneration by its own), plus some side effects (you can revive yourself one time each life, but your bleedout timer is reduced...)

 

but its understandable your position

 

 

Reactive Protection:

its something we can use instead of rely on Guardian mod, but i never received any feedback neither for this one or the others, except the Thunderbolt's "reload-swapping arrow" mechanic

as the same i was trying to create more Vazarin (D, linked to defensive) mods for weapons, i tryed to create Madurai (V, linked to offensive) for warframe... and that's hard (something on your suit that can looks offensive...)

 

but sure,  reduce coodown to 30 seconds, 0 energy cost, not affected by power strenght/range/duration mods

 

 

some more little feedback:

about removing the damaged mods, was better keep them if the game start to use Tiers systems on weapons, to give some sense of progression

example:

Lato, mk-1 series and Skana is tier C (lower base status in general, but they are balanced between them)

(A)furis, Grakata, braton... is tier B

(AK)vasto/Magnum/Lex, Karak, Dera... is tier A

...

 

but also, the game would have to become easier to farm and this something that probably will not happen

[Azamagon]

Bump!

 

Updated the following:

* Fast Deflection + Fortitude -- Now also affects the shield recharge delay, to make these mod more attractive choices

* Marathon -- Turned into a personal version of Energy Siphon

* The entire "splitting utility and combat mods" section (due to the incoming addition of utility slots!)

[ShortCat]

Wow, that was surely a lot of work. The numbers look good. I support to see at least some of this suggestions in game.

[-dicht.Amducias-]

As many may know by now, the players offensive powers scale way too quickly with our offensive (weapon)mods while the enemies' defensive powers likewise scale way too quickly with levels (in particular if armor comes into the picture).

(Note: Numbers being high don't necessarily have to be a problem, but when you deal with PERCENTAGES, you have to be very careful)

These rapid scalings also has other indirect consequences:

1) Warframes with flat damagepowers fall off in viability very quickly as well.

2) Utility and QoL mods are too hard to fit in to builds due to the immense necessary power you get from damage-increasing mods (this can be solved seperately too, by giving us seperate modslots for utility/QoL, but that's a different thread).

If DE wants to have a more healthy scaling in Warframe and thus allow flat damagepowers to last longer, we need to tone down enemy defensive scaling (armor mostly). And to be able to do that, we need to tone down our mods, mainly our damage-increasing weaponmods.

That said, here are the my proposed numbers and changes:

---- WEAPON MODS ----

* Names in CAPS are new mod suggestions (mostly added just to fill up gaps)

* Changes to mods are done in bold and underlined (note that some changes are done to a GROUP of mods, which means that a change might only affect one mod from that group, that will still be notified as an overall change to the group)

* Mods not mentioned are simply untouched

* Explosive weapons (for players and enemies alike) no longer explodes through walls (as in, you can take cover from explosions). Punchthrough, however, adds the ability for explosions to pass through X distance of the environment. Punchthrough no longer causes projectiles with explosive properties to get punchthrough though (it ONLY affects their explosion)

* Critical hit chance is raised just enough for unmodded weapons upon stealth/weakspot hits and when doing ground/stealth/counter finishers to guarantee critical hits, which needs some overall balancing in itself, but the idea is that it allows for modding for skillbased combat, on critweapons and non-critweapons alike!

* Physical damage mods now function like elemental mods: They get a damage increase based on TOTAL base damage, not just based on the physical damagetype in question. That means you can use add them on purely elemental weapons as well.

* Corrupted mods - A corrupted mod cannot be equipped at the same time as its basic counterpart. You have to choose, for example, between Serration and Heavy Caliber, you can't choose both. Corrupted mods have more overall power, but they have their penalties.

Note: Still thinking wether this should be true for Corrupt WARFRAME mods too or not.

GENERAL WEAPON MODS

* Multishot mods (Split Chamber, Barrel Diffusion, Hell's Chamber)

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 6-36% multishot

* Potential idea - Corrupted multishot mods (SICK SPLIT, BULLET DISTORTION, GNASHING SWARM)

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 13,3-100% multishot, 6-36% total damage penalty

(Note: This make it a guaranteed multishot, but total damage is just 1.28x of one regular bullet, making it overall slightly weaker than regular multishot. However, it still has its benefits with status- and crit-chance and overall reliability. So, it's a real choice!)

* Punchthrough mods (Metal Auger, Seeker, Seeking Force)

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 0,35-2,1 meter punchthrough

* Base damage mods (Serration, Hornet Strike, Point Blank)

Modcost 4-14, Bonus 5-55% damage

* Corrupted base damage mods (Heavy Caliber, Magnum Force, Vicious Spread)

Modcost 4-14, Bonus 7-77% damage, 3-33% accuracy penalty

* Pressure Point

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 10-60% damage

* Spoiled Strike

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 15-90% damage, 3-18% attack speed penalty

* Rate of fire mods (Speed Trigger, Gunslinger, Shotgun Spazz)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 10-60% rate of fire

* Corrupted rate of fire mods (Vile Acceleration, Anemic Agility, Frail Momentum)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 15-90% rate of fire, 2,5-15% total damage penalty

* FRENZY (new Corrupted rate of fire mod for melee)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 8-48% rate of fire, 4-24% critical damage penalty

* Critical chance mods (Point Strike, Pistol Gambit, Blunderbuss, True Steel)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 25-150% critical chance

* Corrupt critical chance mods (Critical Delay, Creeping Bullseye, Critical Deceleration)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 35-210% critical chance, 6-36% rate of fire penalty

* TWISTED STEEL (new Corrupted critical chance mod for melee)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 35-210% critical chance, 3-18% rate of fire penalty

* Critical damage mods (Vital Sense, Target Cracker, Ravage, Organ Shatter)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 15-90% critical damage

* Corrupt critical damage mods (GRAVEDIGGER (rifle), Hollow Point, CARNAGE (shotgun), DEATH DEALER (melee))

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 25-150% critical damage, 6-36% status chance penalty

* Magazine mods (Magazine Warp, Slip Magazine, Ammo Stock)

Modcost 4-9 or 2-7, Bonus 10-60% magazine size

* Corrupt magazine mods (Tainted Mag, Tainted Clip, Burdened Magazine)

Modcost 4-9 or 2-7, Bonus 15-90% magazine size, 5-30% reloadspeed penalty

(Note; Tainted Mag should work on ANY Rifle weapon, not just Assault Rifles)

* Accuracy mods (All new: MARKSMANSHIP (rifle), PISTOL PRECISION (pistol), BARREL CHOKE (shotgun))

Modcost 4-9 or 2-7, Bonus 5-30% accuracy

* Corrupt accuracy mods (Vile Precision, CREEPING AIM (pistol), Tainted Shell)

Modcost 4-9 or 2-7, Bonus 10-60% accuracy, 5-30% rate of fire penalty

(Note; Vile Precision used to affect recoil, which is redundant, considering the existance of Stabilizer)

* Reloadspeed mods (Fast Hands, Quickdraw, Tactical Pump)

Modcost 2-7, Bonus 8-48% reloadspeed

* Elemental damage mods (Hellfire, Stormbringer, Deep Freeze, Molten Impact etc)

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 7,5-45% elemental damage

Note; This also goes for the Archwing mods

* Physical damage mods (Rupture, Heavy Trauma, Sawtooth Clip etc)

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 7,5-45% physical damage

* Elemental + Status mods (Pistol Pestilence, Scorch etc)

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 7,5-30% elemental damage, 15-60% status chance

Note; This also goes for the Archwing mods

* Physical event mods (Bore, Maim, Sweeping Serration etc)

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 7,5-30% physical damage, Bonus 15-60% status chance

This makes the physical event mods the physical counterparts to the element+status mods, so you can specialize in physical damage+status if you want

* Status chance mods (Rifle Aptitude, Sure Shot, Shotgun Savvy, Melee Prowess)

Modcost 2-7, Bonus 15-90% status chance

* Status duration mods (Continuous Misery, Perpetual Agony, Lingering Torment, Lasting Sting)

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 25-100% status duration

Note; Should probably prolong the stun effects of Impact, Heat, Electric and Blast to make them a tad more useful.

* Zoom mods (Eagle Eye, Hawk Eye)

Modcost 2-5, bonuses remain the same (?), should benefit zoomed accuracy more too.

Note; Weapons with increased zoom (by default or with these mods installed) should be able to alter the amount of zoom with the scrollwheel while aiming, to make these mods more useful.

* Flight speed mods (Terminal Velocity, Lethal Momentum, Fatal Acceleration)

Modcost 2-5 or 4-7, Bonus 15-60% flight speed (and/or also increases any damage falloff range for Shotgun weapons?)

Note; Should probably also increase the range at which Shotguns start to fall off in damage.

* Recoil reduction mods (Stabilizer, Steady Hands, LOCK STOCK (shotgun))

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 15-60% recoil reduction

* Max ammo reserves mods (Ammo Drum, Trick Mag, Shell Compression)

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 25-100% max ammo reserves

Note; Max ammo values need to be adjusted on all weapons regardless.

SPECIFIC RIFLE/BOW/SNIPER MODS

* Charged Chamber

Modcost 2-7, Bonus 5-30% first shot damage

Note; Should this work on Bows too? After some feedback, probably not.

* Primed Chamber Primed Charged Chamber (owners of Primed Chamber gets Primed Chamber converted into a MAXED Primed Charged Chamber!)

Modcost 2-12, Bonus 5-55% first shot damage

Note; Should this work on Bows too? After some feedback, probably not.

* Thunderbolt

Modcost 6-9, Deals 20-80 damage or 5-20% of damage dealt (whichever is greater) as Blast damage in a small area of effect (Changed to no longer be chance-based + now scales much better in damage!)

Note; Should this work on Snipers too?

Note 2; Damage should be non-harmful to yourself, the blast made more energylike to make sense of that

* Firestorm

Should work on ANY primary weapon with a radius effect. This means it should be equippable on:

Ignis, Ogris, Penta, Tonkor, Torid and Opticor, like it already does, but also on Quanta+Quanta Vandal (the secondary) Mutalist Quanta (the secondary's size and its explosion radius) Simulor (the detonation radius and the "5-stacked vortex" effect)

Just change its description to "+24% Effect radius" and nothing else.

* Wildfire

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 5-20% multishot, Bonus 10-40% magazine size

Note; Changed just to not give any elemental bias + to let Rifles have a Nightmare-multishot-mod, equivalent to Lethal Torrent and my revamp of Seeking Fury

SPECIFIC PISTOL MODS

* Lethal Torrent

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 5-20% multishot, Bonus 7,5-30% rate of fire

* Ice Storm Bulletstorm

Modcost 8-11, Bonus 0,3-1,2 meter punchthrough, Bonus 10-40% magazine size

Note; Changed just to not give any elemental bias + to let Pistols have a Nightmare-punchthrough-mod, equivalent to Shred and Seeking Fury

* Stunning Speed

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 10-40% reloadspeed, Bonus 15-60% status chance

* Ruinous Extension

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 3-12 meter range

(Just buffed to make it equal to Sinister Reach)

* DANGER ZONE (New Secondary mod equivalent to Firestorm)

Should work on ANY secondary weapon with a radius effect. This means it should be equippable on:

Angstrum, Stug, Embolist, Castanas (+Sancti Castanas of course)

Its description could simply be "+24% Effect radius" and nothing else.

SPECIFIC SHOTGUN MODS

* Blaze Breach

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 15-60% status chance, Bonus 5-20% damage

Note; Changed just to not give any elemental bias + to let Shotguns have a Nightmare-status-mod, equivalent to Hammershot and Stunning Speed

* Accelerated Blast Assault Tactics

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 10-40% magazine size, Bonus 7,5-30% rate of fire

Note; Changed just to not give any physical bias + to give shotguns a Nightmare-magazine-mod, equivalent to Wildfire and Ice Storm

* Seeking Fury

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 0,2-1,2 meter punchthrough , Bonus 3,3-20% multishot

Note; Changed to give shotguns a Nightmare-multishot-mod, equivalent to Lethal Torrent and my revamp of Wildfire

* SILENT THUNDER (Silencer mod for Shotguns, because why not! :D)

Modcost 2-5, 25-100% noise reduction

SPECIFIC MELEE MODS

Before going into specific melee mods, melee+stamina+blocking are getting major changes, so here are some important note first:

* Stamina is being removed, so everything related to blocking/stamina needs adjustments.

* Blocking can be done in gunmode, but not with full damage-blocking-efficiency (Only blocks 75% of damage or so).

* Enemies have a small (10%?) chance to be counterstunned when you block their melee attacks without channeling. If you channel and block a melee attack then the counterstun is GUARANTEED, but if a counterstun is done this way, 5 energy is consumed.

* Throwing weapons (like the Glaive) can be called back midflight by just pressing your melee button (works in Gunmode too), to make Quick Return more optional and Rebound a bit more of an attractive modchoice.

* Ground finishers also deal finisher damage (just like Stealth- and Counter-finishers)

* There should be an option in the options-menu which allows you to choose how you trigger the melee finishers: Either triggered by melee attacks (like now), or by the action-button (X-key by default). That'd make EVERYONE happy! :)

* While meleeing, your movement is not as heavily restricted as it is now with certain weapons (Heavy weapons, whips etc, would can still slow you down while attacking, but they should at least let you MOVE while attacking)

* Stancemods ONLY bring bonuses, no penalties whatsoever. Note though, melee multiplier on combos are far less extreme, unless the attacks are VERY slow (such as Tempo Royale's Bold Reprise, there it is fitting). And all stances need to have 4 combos each so there is some more variety in attacks.

* Reach

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 0,3-1,2 meter melee reach and slam radius (no longer a broken percentual value, just a flat bonus range!)

* Second Wind

Modcost 2-7, Grants 5-30 health upon any melee kill (not just channeling melee kill)

Note; No longer is tied to channeling whatsoever!

* Warrior's Grip

Modcost 2-5, Increases your total blocking angle by 15-60 degrees

Note; No longer is tied to channeling whatsoever!

Note 2: Default blocking angle is 180 degrees (I think?). With this mod maxed, your blocking angle would be 240 degrees, allowing you to block attacks that are angled slightly from your back too! In shape explanation, instead of covering half of your "circle", it now covers two thirds.

Note 3: Could probably require some additions to blocking animations?

* Berserker

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 0,75-3% melee attack speed bonus and 0,75-3% less damage taken, both effects for 5-20 seconds, upon melee hits, while critical hits grants 5 stacks each. Stacks up to 15 times.

* Energy Channel

Modcost 4-7, 100-400% energy used is stored as bonus melee damage for your next melee attack, max storing 100-400 damage, bonus damage dealt in a 5m area of effect.

Note; This damage bonus is a flat FINISHER damage-type bonus, dealt seperately from your regular melee attack and in an AoE, significantly improving its value.

* Finishing Touch

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 15-60% finisher attack damage

Note; Now benefits all 3 finisher attacks - Stealth, Ground and Counter.

* Parry

Modcost 4-7, Gives you a 25-100% chance on regular non-channeled blocks to counterstun a meleeing enemy and causes channeled blocks against melee enemies to let out a small energyblast, counterstunning all enemies within a 3/4/5/6 meter radius, this stun lasting 25-100% longer than usual (this effect costs 5 energy)

(Basicly makes it so regular blocks, when maxed, are guaranteed counterstuns, making channel+block unnecessary to counter melee attacks, pure block is just as good! The channel+block gets enhancements into making it an awesome AoE defense mechanism. This makes sure that channel+block is still something you'd like to do here and there (makes it a good little panic button), even despite regular blocks having guaranteed counterstunning)

Note: This energyblast's colour could be affected by either the weapon's or your Warframe's energycolour

* Power Throw

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 0,3-1,8 meter punchthrough

Note; No longer causes explosions on last bounce, that should be a pure channeling feature.

* Rending Strike Bloodwind

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 15-60% status chance, Grants 5-20 health upon any melee kill

Note; Changed just to not give any physical bias

Note 2; The health restore stacks with the Second Wind mod

* Focus Energy

Modcost 4-7, 50-200% energy used is stored as bonus melee damage for your next melee attack, max storing 50-200 damage, bonus damage dealt in a 5m area of effect + Bonus 5-20% channeling efficiency

Note; Changed just to not give any elemental bias

Note 2; Stacks with the Energy Channel mod. Read on Energy Channel for more details on how the damage bonus is changed

* Reflex Coil

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 10-40% channeling efficiency

* Killing Blow

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 3-18% total damage at all times, tripled effect while channeling (thus 9-54% total damage increase bonus while channeling)

* Corrupt Charge

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 4-24% total damage at all times, tripled effect while channeling (thus 12-72% total damage increase bonus while channeling), 4-24% channeling efficiency penalty

* Life Strike

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 0,5-2% lifesteal at all times, tripled effect while channeling (thus 1,5-6% lifesteal while channeling)

Note; Penalty removed, due to not actually being a corrupt mod

* Enduring Strike

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 10-40% status chance at all times, tripled effect while channeling (thus 30-120% status chance bonus while channeling)

Note; Penalty removed, due to not actually being a corrupt mod

* Quickening

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 4-16% rate of fire at all times, tripled effect while channeling (thus 12-48% rate of fire bonus while channeling)

Note; Penalty removed, due to not actually being a corrupt mod

* True Punishment

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 20-80% critical chance at all times, tripled effect while channeling (thus 60-240% critchance bonus while channeling)

Note; Penalty removed, due to not actually being a corrupt mod

* KILLING SPREE

Modcost 4-7, 8-32% chance that your melee hits grant an additional combo counter point

Note: Each combo counter "reset" should just put the combo counter down to the previous multiplier, not down to 0.

* RAGING RHYTHM (Corrupted mod equivalent to Killing Spree, thus not stackable with it)

Modcost 4-7, 25-100% chance that your melee hits grant an additional combo counter point, but combo counter duration reduced by 0,3-1,2 seconds.

Note: I think baseline combo counter duration should be 6 seconds. This would put it down to 4,8 seconds

Note 2: Each combo counter "reset" should just put the combo counter down to the previous multiplier, not instantly down to 0.

* MARTIAL MOMENTUM

Modcost 2-5, Increases combo counter duration by 0,75 - 3 seconds

Note: I think baseline combo counter duration should be 6 seconds. This would put it up to 9 seconds

Note 2: Each combo counter "reset" should just put the combo counter down to the previous multiplier, not instantly down to 0.

* COMBO GUARD

Modcost 8-11, the combo counter multiplier is also given as a damage taken divider for your Warframe, lasting up to 1-4 seconds extra after the multiplier is reset.

Note: This means that when you have a 1.5x combo multiplier, all damage done to you is reduced by dividing the damage by 1,5x (aka, 33% damage reduction). 2x multiplier means dividing by 2x (aka 50% damage reduction) and so on and so forth.

Note 2: Each combo counter "reset" should just put the combo counter down to the previous multiplier, not down to 0. That means, when you lose your 2x combo, it goes down to 1.5x, further meaning you will have up to a 2x damage taken divider for another 1-4 seconds, even when you are at the 1.5x multiplier. When those 1-4 seconds are out, you then have a 1.5x damage taken divider etc.

SPECIFIC ARCHWING MODS

While these also might need more balancing, they are fairly balanced already (bar the elemental ones, but that was noted up in the general weapon mod changes) But there is ONE mod in particular I'd like to boost:

* Extend

Values remain the same, but now also extends the max range at which you can "leap" in towards targets!

---- WARFRAME AND AURA MODS ----

* Names in CAPS are new mod suggestions

* Mods not mentioned are simply untouched

* Aura stacking now have diminishing returns - Each additional aura is 50% less strong than the previous one (So Energy Siphon, for example, grants 0.6 regen from the first player, then 0.3 from the second, 0.15 from the third and 0.075 from the fourth, for a total of 1.125 regen for all players. Thus, having varied auras is encouraged, but not necessary. It also reduces the big powergap of auras for multiplayers and solo players. It also allows for many lackluster auras to have stronger base values.

* All auras have 6 ranks with a max 7 point bonus, to reduce modding bias. (Preferably, I'd also like to see polarities disappear from auras, so we can more freely swap between them)

* I have tried to make it so that all auras are useful at all times (For example, Corrosive Projection is not just antiarmor, it has uses against Corpus and Infested too!)

AURAS

* Dead Eye + Rifle Amp + Shotgun Amp are all merged into "Heavy Duty" - Max 30% Primary damage bonus

* Pistol Amp - Max 30% Secondary damage bonus

* Rifle Scavenger renamed "Scavenger" - Max 150% Primary ammo pickup bonus

* Pistol Scavenger renamed "Vulture" - Max 150% Secondary ammo pickup bonus

* Shotgun Scavenger renamed "Survivalist" - Max 90% Energy+Health orb pickup bonus

* Sniper Scavenger renamed XXXX - (Not done with this one yet, could be merged with Shotgun Scavenger)

* Speed Holster renamed "Barrier" - 120% Shield bonus and 60% Shield regen bonus (Baseline weapon swapping speed GREATLY improved, as weaponswapping speed is currently unnecessarily long + Speed Holster is a bad bandaid for that issue)

* Physique - 120% Health bonus and +60 armor (not percentage, but flat armor)

* Infested Impedence renamed "Impeding Presence" - Now a naramon-aura (Dash), Max 18% movement speed reduction (against ANY faction)

* Corrosive Projection renamed "Piercing Presence" - Now a madurai-aura (V), Max 30% armor, shields and aurabonuses reduced (against ANY faction - Infested can get armor from Swarm MOAs - The aurareduction works against any type of enemy auras, like those from Infested Ancients and any Eximus unit)

* Shield Disruption renamed "Disrupting Presence" - Now a vazarin-aura (D), Max 18% chance for any enemy attack to miss you (against ANY faction)

* EMP Aura renamed "Metal Guard" - Max 18% reduction to all physical damage taken

* Electric/Toxin/Fire Resistance + Frost Insulation + Laser Deflection merged into "Elemental Guard" - Max 24% reduction to all elemental damage taken (Includes resisting some of the shield reduction on ice levels!)

* Affinity Amp - Max 24% affinity bonus

* Sprint Boost - Max 18% sprint bonus

REGULAR WARFRAME MODS

Before going into specific Warframe mods, melee+stamina+blocking in general needs some basic mechanical changes:

* Stamina is being removed, so everything related to blocking/stamina has had big adjustments.

* Blocking can be done in gunmode, but not with full damage-blocking-efficiency (Only blocks 75% of damage or so).

Note: More mods might need some rebalancing, but I'm gonna mention the ones in most need of boosting (might edit ALL later on)

* Acrobat

Modcost 2-7, Bonus 8-48% speed increase to your evasive maneuvers (rolls and dodges)

Note: Could possibly also speed up other acrobatic moves, such as wallrunning?

* Marathon Energy Surge

Modcost 4-9, Regenerates 0,1-0,6 energy per second

Note: Basicly, a non-aura version of Energy Siphon

* Quick Rest

Modcost 4-9, Regenerates 0,5-3 health per second

Note: Basicly, a non-aura version of Rejuvenation

* Reflex Guard

Modcost 2-12, Bonus 3-33% to autoparry any frontal attack

Note: Chances nerfed due to the Stamina and Blocking changes

Note 2: This animation should not interrupt your actions (it should look blurry like the dodging of the Agents in Matrix!)

Note 3: Possibly made into a Melee mod?

* Reflection

Possibly made into a Melee mod?

* Elemental mods (Antitoxin, Flame Repellant, Insulation, Lightning Rod, Warm Coat)

All merged into one mod, "Hazard Suit"

Modcost 2-7, Bonus 6-36% resistance to all elemental damage (Includes resisting some of the shield reduction on icy levels!)

Note; To make it a bit more interesting and balanced, this mod should probably not be equippable at the same time as Diamond Skin?

* Diamond Skin

Modcost 2-7, Bonus 4-24% resistance to all physical damage

Note; To make it a bit more interesting and balanced, this mod should probably not be equippable at the same time as Hazard Suit?

* Aviator

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 7,5-30% resistance to all damage while airborne + personal gravity reduced by 7,5-30%

Note; With its gravitychanger, it shouldn't remain an exclusive mod imo.

* Shield Flux

Modcost 10-13, Shields to Energy when out of Energy, with a 5-20% conversion efficiency. However, after converting energy this way it also increases the shield regeneration delay by 1 additional second per each 100 shields converted.

Note: This means, each 1 energy costs between 20 and 5 shields, thus an ultimate would cost between 2000 and 500 shields. If you use 1000 shields, then you will have to wait 13 seconds (3 base + 10 conversion penalty) before your shields start regenerating again

Note 2: Should proabably be changed into a rare mod, along with being acquirable outside of transmutation somehow

Note 3: Shield Flux won't work unless you have enough shields to actually convert to the energy cost.

Note 4: This shield-to-energy exchange should probably NOT be affected by Power Efficiency mods?

Note 5: Should it work in combination with Quick Thinking (i.e. Shields can be converted into Energy to keep you from dieing when taking health damage)?

* Heavy Impact

Remains the same, but can now also be 100% triggered upon ANY melee groundslam, no matter the height of the jump!

* Retribution

Modcost 6-9, 10-40% chance to electrocute enemies who are attacking your shields, as long as the attacker is within a 2-8 meter range of you

Note; Makes it far more useful, due to not only proccing from melee attacks, but from ANY enemy attack, they just have to be within range for it to be able to proc. Should probably get a short cooldown between procs though?

* Intruder

Modcost 2-5, Automatically hacks 1-4 parts in a hacking puzzle (which you CANNOT unhack by accident either!) + you and your Sentinel remain invisible for up to 2-8 seconds after initiating a hack (removed as soon as you finish the hacking though)

* Shock Absorbers (gets merged with Resilient Focus, either of their name is fine)

Modcost 4-7, Bonus 8-32% damage reduction from all sources while not under control (knocked down, stunned, whatever) or when affected by any kind of status effect.

* Sure Footed

Values remain the same, but now works against any staggers too (such as those from Volatile Runners and Rollers etc)

* Provoked

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 0,25-1% damage dealt from all sources for each 2% health missing. Full effect (12,5-50%) is then granted when in bleedout.

Note; Gives it a powerful non-bleedout useage, while still retaining its old function as well

* Undying Will

Modcost 2-5, Bonus 25-100% bleedout duration

Note; Base change should add that for each kill you do during bleedout, you get +10% of total bleedout duration added back so allies / your Sentinel (with the right mods) can get more time to ressurect you.

**** Now for the more difficult section - The general survivability-mods and all the powermods ****

* Just like enemy defensive scaling goes down, so does their offensive scaling, thus the benefit of our defensive mods could also need some toning down.

* Power Efficiency now works differently: Currently, it plainly reduces energy cost by the said amount, which is very different from how all other mods work in this game (and is the only one to require a cap). This formula is downright overpowered and this is how it currently works:

1) 50% efficiency bonus = 100% actual efficiency bonus since you can cast twice as often

2) 75% efficiency bonus = 300% actual efficiency bonus since you can cast FOUR as often

The formula I suggest is to make it work like all other bonuses in this game:

1) 50% efficiency = 50% actual efficiency bonus, since you can cast 50% more often (Cost = Old cost / 1,5)

2) 75% efficiency = 75% actual efficiency bonus, since you can cast 75% more often (Cost = Old cost / 1,75)

This new formula also doesn't necessitate an efficiency-cap, because it's pretty much impossible to reach an ability cost of 0.

* Corrupted mods - I'm still not sure how WARFRAME corrupt mods should behave: Should they behave like they do currently (being stackable with their regular counterpart), or should they get the same change as the weapon corrupted mods, that they cannot be equipped at the same time as its basic counterpart (such as Serration + Heavy Caliber doesn't work)? Considering the existance of Primed powermods (such as Primed Continuity and possibly other new ones in the future), I guess I will leave Warframe corrupted mods stackable.

* Vitality

Modcost 2-12, Bonus 25-275% health bonus

* Redirection

Modcost 4-14, Bonus 25-275% shield bonus

* Fast Deflection

Modcost 4-9, Bonus 15-90% faster shield recharge + recharge delay

Note: What I mean is, it also quickens up your recharge delay, so the shield regen starts sooner. At max rank, the recharge delay is reduced from 3 seconds to ~1,58 seconds (3 / 1,9).

Note 2: Stacking it with Fortitude reduces the shield recharge delay from 3 seconds to ~ 1,11 seconds (3 / 2,7)

* Steel Fiber

Modcost 4-14, Bonus 5-55 + 7-77% armor (both a FLAT bonus AND a percent of your Warframe's base armor. Percent is applied first)

This change would be a nerf to the tankiest of Warframes and a buff on the most frail ones. Which sounds balanced.

* Armored Agility

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 2,5-15% sprint speed, Bonus 5-30 + 5-30% armor (both a FLAT bonus AND a percent of your Warframe's base armor. Percent is applied first)

This change would be a nerf to the tankiest of Warframes and a buff on the most frail ones. Which sounds balanced.

* Vigor

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 25-150% shield and health bonus

* Constitution

Modcost 8-11, Bonus 10-40% knockdown recovery speed, Bonus 25-100% energy maximum

Note; Changed to have a Nightmare mod that works with the energy system which is NOT biased towards a specific power-component. Energy maximum is the least biased of them all (and makes 2 of the 3 Nightmare mods more neatly split, as they give more to the max cap of a specific system: Vigor for health/shields and Constitution for energy)

* Fortitude

Modcost 6-9, Bonus 20-80% faster shield recharge + recharge delay, Bonus 5-20% chance to resist knockdowns (and just like on Sure Footed, the knockdown resistance chance now also works against any staggers too (such as those from Volatile Runners and Rollers etc)

Note: Just like it was changed on Fast Deflection, it now also quickens up your recharge delay, so the shield regen starts sooner. At max rank, the recharge delay is reduced from 3 seconds to ~1,67 seconds (3 / 1,8).

Note 2: Stacking it with Fortitude reduces the shield recharge delay from 3 seconds to ~ 1,11 seconds (3 / 2,7)

* All regular powermods (Stretch, Intensify, Continuity, Streamline)

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 5-30% of their respective bonuses

* All Corrupted powermods (Fleeting Expertise, Narrowminded, Overextended, Blind Rage, Transient Fortitude)

Modcost 6-11, Bonus 10-60% of their respective bonuses, 5-30% on their respective penalties

EDIT:

--- SPLITTING COMBAT AND UTILITYMODS - THOUGHTS ON THAT ---

Sooo, DE are gonna add in a utilityslot (at least for Warframes). That sounds AWESOME to me!

However, I'm still proposing what I've always suggested before: Give us 4 modslots for utility on EVERYTHING moddable (on Warframes, Sentinels, Kubrows and Weapons alike)

This would TRULY allows us to seperate the competition between damage vs utility/QoL. The modding would then instead be combat vs combat and utility vs utility!

Think about these options when you mod for a weapon, for example:

In the 8 combatslots - Maybe add punchthrough? Go for a physical build (which should be viable)? Maybe try a speedy high-fire-rate build? A critbuild (which is now generally more useful, due to how I suggested crits work with headshots and stealth)? A statusheavy build, maybe more focused for one element/physical damagetype, in particular now when the plain statusmods are buffed? Or even go for a simple rainbow build? Or go for a min-max anti-corpus/grineer/infested/whatever build?

In the 4 utilityslots - Quicker reload? Bigger magazine (or even a MUCH bigger magazine with the corrupted magazine mod, but at the cost of reloadspeed)? Lots more spare ammo? Ammo mutator? Zoom/Range/AoE-mods for longer/bigger range? Recoil reduction? Silence my weapon? Use the newly suggested accuracymods? More/less bounces on certain weapons (Penta, Tonkor, all throwing weapons etc)? Or for melee weapons, more reach? Channeling efficiency? And so on...

So many options and so much possible variety! Isn't that what we ALL want? Min-maxers can do their thing. People that like lots of variety and customization can do their thing. EVERYBODY WINS! :D

To be more specific, here is how I would sort all mods:

*** Weapons ***

* Combat mods (goes for Dual/Primed/Corrupted/Channeling/etc mods too, if at least one of the bonuses adjusts the following):

Damage (base, physical, elemental, first shot bonus, faction bonus etc), Fire rate, Multishot, Punchthrough, Critical chance, Critical damage multiplier, Status chance, Augments (no matter its actual bonus), Thunderbolt and similar, Energy Channel and similar (at least with the buffs suggested), Combo counter increasers (like the newly suggested Killing Spree and Raging Rhythm)

* Utility mods (goes for Dual/Primed/Corrupted/Channeling/etc mods too, if all of the bonuses adjusts the following):

Magazine size, Max ammo reserves, Ammo mutation, Accuracy, Reload speed, Recoil, Flight Speed, Zoom, Silencing, Range/Reach/Radius increase, Bounce alteration (adding or reducing), Channeling efficiency, Blocking mods (such as Parry and the new Warrior's Grip), Health replenishing melee mods (= Life Strike and Second Wind), Combo counter utility (like the newly suggested Martial Momentum and Combo Guard)

* Unsure:

Status DURATION (is very limitted in use, offensively)

*** Warframes/Companions/Archwings ***

* Combat mods (goes for Dual/Primed/Corrupted/etc mods too, if at least one of the bonuses adjusts the following):

Max Shields/Health/Armor/Energy, Shield/Health/Energy regen (including my revamps of Quick Rest and Marathon), Power strength/range/duration/efficiency, Health/Shield/Energy-converters (like Rage, Quick Thinking and my revamp of Shield Flux), Equilibrium, Natural Talent, Provoked (due to its buff), Retribution (due to its buff)

* Utility mods (goes for Dual/Primed/Corrupted/etc mods too, if all of the bonuses adjusts the following):

Elemental/Physical damage resistance, Conditional damage resistances (Aviator, Shock Absorbers etc), Conditional effect resistances (Rapid Resilience, Handspring, Sure Footed etc), Movement speed boosters of any kind (Maglev, Rush, Acrobat), Enemy/Loot radar effects, Intruder, Master Thief, Undying Will

* Unsure:

Heavy Impact (even with my buff, it would still be kind of meh)

--- DAMAGED AND PRIMED MODS - WHAT ABOUT THESE? ---

Damaged mods

Honestly, all of these needs to be removed (for those that have them, just replace them with the regular counterparts). It's NOT nice to the newbies to give them subpar versions of essential mods. Just give them the regular version. It's not like they have tons of cores and credits to fuse them up easily anyway.

Primed mods

These primed utility mods are completely fine. But imo, NOT the primed combat mods, since they are just disturbing the balance with unnecessarily added power. This is my list of what should be removed:

* Primed Continuity

* Primed Flow

* Primed Point Blank

* Primed Ravage

* Primed Pistol Gambit

* Primed Heated Charge

* Primed Heavy Trauma

Every other (current) primed mod is fine. Obviously, all credits, fusion cores and ducats spent on any removed mod should be given back.

So, phew, all that text done, thoughts and opinions?

Nope

[-dicht.Amducias-]

Oh please. I'm a MR19 player that has cleared the startchart etc. Don't get me start on those things.

How would we face them? Did you miss that I said enemy defensive scaling would also be reduced? Armor in particular.

Exactly

Drama much? Look at the bigger picture. These changes are intended fixing absurd scaling, on our weapons and enemies alike. This is particularly good for flat-damage Warframe powers. Relax please >_>

Most MR19s appear to show a decent degree of stupidity though

[-dicht.Amducias-]

i agree with this completely. they changed healer ancients so they reduce damage surrounding units take near it and now it seems people have forgotten how to play. all so they could make the void more difficult. T1 and T2 = me having to carry most of the time its a pain.

Carrying in t1 and t2 no nullifiers and bombards there is nothing to protect others from

[Naqel]

While I share the sentiment, I do not necessarily see eye-to-eye with your numbers.

 

Most importantly however, what we need is a shift in the philosophy behind the mod design.

 

"Corrupted"(-stat) and "nightmare"(2 stat) mods should stop being something 'special', and instead shift into a standard approach when it comes to delivering power and customization to the player.

Mod rarity/availability should be based on how difficult it is to fully appreciate it's benefits, not an arbitrary rating of it's exclusivity or power.

 

Another important thing is front-loading power into 0-rank mods, so that rather than gaining +100% more power per rank, they gain +100% across all ranks(however many that may be)

 

Finally, the cost of installing a mod should be directly tied to the benefits it provides.

No more nonsense such as +60% firing rate costing as much as +120% raw damage.

If a mod boosts a stat, even indirectly, that should be reflected in it's cost, even if it's not immediately obvious from the description.

For example: increasing the firing rate by 100% lets you kill people in half the time, increasing the damage by 100% also lets you kill people in half the time, but also twice as many, hence and equivalent increase in DPS should cost roughly twice as much if achieved via increased damage per bullet, over bullets fired.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Naqel

[Zeyez]

Naqel, i can agree with something about you said, like the different approach, like i did before (more than 2 bonuses every mod, but the rarity and cost will raise according to the benefit

but:

...

Finally, the cost of installing a mod should be directly tied to the benefits it provides.

No more nonsense such as +60% firing rate costing as much as +120% raw damage.

If a mod boosts a stat, even indirectly, that should be reflected in it's cost, even if it's not immediately obvious from the description.

For example: increasing the firing rate by 100% lets you kill people in half the time, increasing the damage by 100% also lets you kill people in half the time, but also twice as many, hence and equivalent increase in DPS should cost roughly twice as much if achieved via increased damage per bullet, over bullets fired.

the problem is:

- earning 100% damage doesn't make you waste more bullets every shoot, so... no drawbacks

- earning 100% fire rate will allow you shoot 2 times faster, but force the player to reload more often and lose his entirely ammo faster

- the ammo systems doesn't give more or less ammo if you use one particular weapon (Glaxion (1500) vs Braton Prime (375), both using the same rifle ammo pickup)

 

basically, if we were to dictate the cost of each mod, the pure damage mod will be more expensive than a firing rate, even giving the same overall damage, unless there's already a bonus damage affecting the weapon and that mod will raise it addictively, and even that, the choice: raise the bullet damage at low fire rate (saving ammo) or more DPS and use more ammo?

 

the mods aren't only thing that need to be balanced

and he is trying to change the entire game (level/armor/damage cap...)

Edited July 30, 2015 by Zeyez

[(PSN)Draconis1981]

this is mad you want to n3rf multishot down from 90 to 36 percent? jog on.

[TaylorsContraction]

Interesting suggestions, I don't like you removing changelin channeling penalty though on channel mods. They don't need to be corrupt to draw more energy for more power, that's just how they work.

Edited July 30, 2015 by TaylorsContraction

[ScorpionZN]

Knew this thread was critisism/flame bait from the start, I myself have no opinion on your changes OP but I do tip my fedora for you having the balls to post something as controversial as this!

 
*Tips Fedora*

[Naqel]

the problem is:

- earning 100% damage doesn't make you waste more bullets every shoot, so... no drawbacks

- earning 100% fire rate will allow you shoot 2 times faster, but force the player to reload more often and lose his entirely ammo faster

- the ammo systems doesn't give more or less ammo if you use one particular weapon (Glaxion (1500) vs Braton Prime (375), both using the same rifle ammo pickup)

 

Do you even read what you "read"? That's exactly the thing I point out, just with fancier wording.

 

Also, everything needing a fix is a given, no change exists in a vacuum(something DE forgets all the time), but unlike most other aspects of the game, mods are the one that can be changed without reworking everything else immediately.

Once a new approach philosophy is locked down, there's no issue adjusting the numbers for either the current state of the game, or the game to the desired numbers.

[Azamagon]

1) While I share the sentiment, I do not necessarily see eye-to-eye with your numbers.

 

2) Most importantly however, what we need is a shift in the philosophy behind the mod design.

 

"Corrupted"(-stat) and "nightmare"(2 stat) mods should stop being something 'special', and instead shift into a standard approach when it comes to delivering power and customization to the player.

Mod rarity/availability should be based on how difficult it is to fully appreciate it's benefits, not an arbitrary rating of it's exclusivity or power.

 

3) Another important thing is front-loading power into 0-rank mods, so that rather than gaining +100% more power per rank, they gain +100% across all ranks(however many that may be)

 

4) Finally, the cost of installing a mod should be directly tied to the benefits it provides.

No more nonsense such as +60% firing rate costing as much as +120% raw damage.

If a mod boosts a stat, even indirectly, that should be reflected in it's cost, even if it's not immediately obvious from the description.

For example: increasing the firing rate by 100% lets you kill people in half the time, increasing the damage by 100% also lets you kill people in half the time, but also twice as many, hence and equivalent increase in DPS should cost roughly twice as much if achieved via increased damage per bullet, over bullets fired.

1) Why, thank you, and yes, I understand, it's more the general concept numbers, not perfect ones.

2) I can say I generally agreed with this, but I'd like to see more what you mean with examples to see if I FULLY agreed.

3) I don't see this being a necessary change. It's a "charming flaw" I see with the modding system, which I don't mind staying. But if it was a BIT more frontloaded to the rank 0 of the mod, I wouldn't complain though.

4) I agreed with this SOMEWHAT, but not necessarily in such "harddrawn" numbers. A hypothetical 100% damage bonus mod costing more than a 100% fire rate mod, yes, I agreed with that, but there is no need for "perfect" balance imo (as in, then the 100% damage bonus mod should cost twice as much, for the reasons you stated above).

 

this is mad you want to n3rf multishot down from 90 to 36 percent? jog on.

How is it mad to wanna tone down one of the better scaling mods in this game?

1) 100% Multishot is better than 100% raw damage boost, because raw damage only increases your damage, while the multishot not only increases your damage by the same amount, it also increases the probability for statusprocs. That's why it is made lower than the raw damage mod.

2) There is the Corrupted Multishot mod for those that like 100% multishot (at the cost of damage, cuz of balance)

 

Interesting suggestions, I don't like you removing changelin channeling penalty though on channel mods. They don't need to be corrupt to draw more energy for more power, that's just how they work.

Channeling mods, with penalties, are HORRENDOUSLY bad.

A simple example: Compare Fury versus Quickening as they are in the game right now:

1) Fury doesn't require you to be in Melee mode for the mod to have its bonus take effect. Quickening does

2) Fury doesn't require an energycost to grant its benefit. Quickening does

3) Fury doesn't have a penalty on it. Quickening does.

4) Fury and Quickening both cost a modslot

5) Fury has a better bonus than Quickening

 

These comparison generally applies to ALL Channeling mods

Why do Channeling mods need to have a penalty (and be worse in their bonuses) compared to the non-channeling mods again?

 

Scrapping the penalties and making their bonuses better than the non-channeling mods, that sounds like a better balance imo.

 

Knew this thread was critisism/flame bait from the start, I myself have no opinion on your changes OP but I do tip my fedora for you having the balls to post something as controversial as this!

 

*Tips Fedora*

Lol, thanks :)

[(PSN)Killmoves37]

I'd only really consider changes like this if the enemy scaling gets reworked at the same time. I'll happily hand over my superguns once there aren't nigh-indestructible enemies roaming around. I was never a fan of over inflated numbers anyway. I remember Borderlands ran into this problem face-first with Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode. Nothing sucked more than doing 1 million damage and having the enemy only lose 20% of their health.

I haven't read through it yet as I am at work, but I'll come back to this later.

[Naqel]

4) I agreed with this SOMEWHAT, but not necessarily in such "harddrawn" numbers. A hypothetical 100% damage bonus mod costing more than a 100% fire rate mod, yes, I agreed with that, but there is no need for "perfect" balance imo (as in, then the 100% damage bonus mod should cost twice as much, for the reasons you stated above).

 

Generally , an even more extreme philosophy should be applied.

Bonus damage per shot really is worth more than 200% of the equivalent increase in firing rate, since my raw example dose not include the impact an increased firing rate has on accuracy, recoil, reload frequency, ect.

 

That's why my first point is so important: mods with paired stats and penalties should become the norm, rather than the exception.

 

Certain stats are simply too good to be offered without a price, if for no other reason than to keep the modding energy efficiency in check.

100% damage bonus paired with a 100% recoil increase for example, could very well be offered at a price much closer to the 100% firing rate.

 

By the same token, some stats may be ridiculous to apply in quantities worth their cost, or actually detrimental in excess.

100% firing rate should probably not happen on it's own, as without a reduction in recoil, or increase in accuracy, the weapon would simply become useless, so something more akin to 50% firing rate and 50% reduced recoil would be more in line.

 

This is also why front-loading mod power is so important: going from 50% to 100% makes for a better curve than 10% to a 100%, but more importantly makes it much easier to keep the mod prices relevant throughout the advancement, making for decisions more interesting than "What mods can I afford to cap out?".

 

Important thing to take note here, is that my philosophy is extremely scaleable.

Your ridiculous numbers(3% multishot per rank), outright take power away from the player, and make certain mods(like multi-shot), impossible to make satisfying, whereas in my version, the only thing that really changes is the mod being made to cost adequately to it's value, and in extreme cases given a disadvantage dictated by reason, rather than arbitrarily(as with current corrupted mods).

[Azamagon]

Bump!

 

Added/Updated these mods:

* Depleted Reload

* Parry (along with the blocking values in general)

[EternalOdyessy]

I don't know how I feel about this idea..

[Azamagon]

Bump!

 

Added and rebalanced/changed these mods:

 

* The parkour mods (Mobilize, Firewalker, Lightning Dash, Ice Spring, Toxic Flight, Rending Turn, Battering Maneuver, Piercing Step).

Note: No changes to the parkour-mod Patagium, as that mod seems completely fine (it fits its name very well and everything)

* Covert Lethality

* Seismic Slam

* Adhesive Blast

* Combustion Beam

* Concealed Explosives

 

Updated these old mods:

* Finishing Touch

* Thunderbolt

* Acrobat

* Marathon

* Quick Rest

* Second Wind

* Warrior's Grip

* Shield Flux

 

Added new mod ideas:

* Ricochet (as a contrast to the Adhesive Blast revamp - INCREASES amounts of bounces/bounciness, great for weapons like Panthera, Miter and Drakgoon)

Edited August 15, 2015 by Azamagon

[Azamagon]

Bump!

 

* Updated the "Splitting Combat and Utilitymods"-section a bit

* Removed my suggested mods Killing Spree and Raging Rhythm (chance to get extra combo counter points when meleeing). Could still be potential new mods of course, but I wanted to do something interesting to an already existing mod...

* Changed Finishing Touch into giving these bonuses:

Modcost 2-5, Finishing moves are performed 15-60% quicker and your melee kills grant an additional 1-4 "hits" towards the combo counter

 

This way, Finishing Touch might be a slightly more appealing modchoice. Getting extra combo counter points on melee kills might prove an intriguing bonus that balances itself out on the low and high levels of play (on lower levels, the bonus doesn't matter too much, since you kill quickly anyway. On higher levels, the bonus is not OP either, since it takes longer to melee-kill enemies anyway).

Also, having QUICKER Finishing moves seem more important of a bonus rather than having stronger ones. Note: This bonus should apply to stealthfinishers, counterfinishers AND groundfinishers.

 

Good or bad changes?

 

EDIT:
And I still stand firmly by my multishot changes (Affected mods are: Split Chamber, Hell's Chamber, Barrel Diffusion, Wildfire, Seeking Fury and Lethal Torrent). I think the current "bugged" version of multishot is fine in mechanics, only problem being is that they need toning down so they are still a powerful option.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Azamagon

[Drazhya]

I had given a suggestion a while ago, that I can't find now (search engine seems very limited). Definitely would like to see a mod rebalance, but otherwise my idea is at odds with yours, and I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter (and the thoughts of others).

 

The core of it is that there isn't enough granularity in mod selection. You can't shave off a little of your +dmg% for reduced recoil or greater ammo capacity, 'cause you only have one +dmg% mod (for rifles), so you're either shaving off all your damage or none of it.

The idea I had was that, rather than having a limit of one of each mod, you instead have a limit of maybe 4, with each of the damage-increasing mods having maybe around one-quarter the effect and the more utility mods having maybe half the effect, and quadruple the mod slots and mod capacity (and quarter the credit costs for fusion, and quadruple the mod drops) to round out the change (I haven't given much thought to the exact numbers though).

You could then make it even more interesting by having multiple mods with the same stat type, and limit the number of mods on a weapon by both the stat type and the mod name, rather than just the mod name. So you could have, say, a +60% damage mod with a limit of 1 on the weapon, and a +30% one with a limit of four, with the ultimate result being that you could have a +60% and three +30%s (or four of the +30%). Then you can trade off one of the smaller ones for a utility mod.

 

The general response to my idea was that it was too complicated (one person said that his 'head would literally explode'). Still, I think if given the chance (and the UI and stuff is designed right) it can be very intuitive. Especially if you can choose to add mods by type, rather than name. So you could, say, click a button to add your best +dmg% mod, and keep clicking that button and it would fill up with all the +dmg% mods you can fit on there (and click other buttons to add different types).

 

Thing is, currently, mods are not only options, but also progression. You level them up to get better stats and tackle harder content. While I definitely think the 'option' part should be more emphasized, I'd rather not remove so much of the damage, as I like how it works as progression as well.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Drazhya

[Nako-Chan]

Really nice Opening Post, Azamagon! +1

 

Nice to see rather well thought out ideas about how to move forward with warframe from someone who understands the game, while the rest of the forum is busy being hyperbolic with doom-saying threads. Your topic is a breath of fresh air with some inspired ideas. The idea of utility slots and weapon slots being separate is a simple but appealing fix, so long as we don't have to pay plat for 4x exilis slots per gun.