It's Time To Balance Our Mods

[DSpite]

I agree, however the problem you are illuminating is cause by the mod progression OP is trying to recommend a change for. As far as it can tell, the mod system is the section of the basement that got flooded when the water rose, and nobody wants to go snorkeling down there to identify which sections of the concrete have taken water damage due to our guns still being flooded with damage.

 

I don't disagree, but the low level missions with low level players and low point level mods will be teh ones taking the hard end of the stick.

 

They are the ones that can stay alive with a single mod Like Serration on half points or swapping a Split-Chamber from someone. You are now giving them a mod that even when maxed STILL only had 30% chance. Why on earth bother putting 1 point it in when even maxed is pretty "meh".

 

Leave everything alone and gradually scale enemies with a steeper ramp and the mid levels become less then a sleepfest, and the higher levels at around 30 and higher actually hurt us.

 

Otherwise, the enemies still wont kill us at level 30. All the OP mods changes just lower our damage. they will still die instantly when we do 10K DPS instead of 40K DPS unless they are - at standard ruler - 50+ and DE is not balancing up that end, they need to bring that end DOWN and THEN finally balance it better.

 

DE has already done this "lowering". Void enemies used to be 120+ in Tier 3.

Edited April 10, 2015 by DSpite

[Azamagon]

I don't disagree, but the low level missions with low level players and low point level mods will be teh ones taking the hard end of the stick.

 

They are the ones that can stay alive with a single mod Like Serration on half points or swapping a Split-Chamber from someone. You are now giving them a mod that even when maxed STILL only had 30% chance. Why on earth bother putting 1 point it in when even maxed is pretty "meh".

Ummm... that's exactly the OPPOSITE of what I'm trying to accomplish here. Nerf the mods AND nerf the enemy scaling is what I said, not just nerf the mods.

In fact, the low level players would REJOICE of these changes. Because they don't have to a high-level serration and/or split chamber and/or a bunch of elemental mods at once, just to be able to deal some decent damage on the midlevels of the starchart.

 

And the point kind of is to make damagemods a bit more "meh", so they feel a bit more optional rather than 100% necessary. Otherwise, they are NEVER gonna be able to compete with utilitymods. Sure, I'd like even more if we got utilityslots just for utilitymods, so the competition of damage vs utility doesn't even exist. And even if that happened, I'd STILL like to nerf the damagemods, to help the newbies more (as I explained just before).

 

Leave everything alone and gradually scale enemies with a steeper ramp and the mid levels become less then a sleepfest, and the higher levels at around 30 and higher actually hurt us.

So, you wanna make damagemods even MORE necessary? Just because you are a veteran (just like I am) doesn't mean that you should make it harder for everyone just because you want more artificial challenge. Add more challenge, by all means (at least on higher level planets), but don't rely SOLELY on enemy scaling for that. Once again, that just screws it up for everyone, more so for the newbies.

 

Otherwise, the enemies still wont kill us at level 30. All the OP mods changes just lower our damage. they will still die instantly when we do 10K DPS instead of 40K DPS unless they are - at standard ruler - 50+ and DE is not balancing up that end, they need to bring that end DOWN and THEN finally balance it better.

Level 30 enemies can kill us perfectly fine, the reason we are near-unkillable is because we have so much avoidance and CC from our abilites, due to how much we can spam our abilities. So that's a different problem.

 

And bring a subparly modded weapon (as in, don't use highlevel mods, don't use a ton of elemental mods, mod for utility in 5 of the slots etc) to highlevel stuff and don't rely on your abilities. You will not kill enemies very easily (especially not Grineer, due to their broken armor scaling, ANOTHER problem) and the enemies will kill you quite easily, since you can't rely on the CC from your abilities.

 

So much for "choices" huh?

 

DE has already done this "lowering". Void enemies used to be 120+ in Tier 3.

*facepalm*

You do know that when they squished down the numbers, they also heavily compressed their scaling, right?

Level 40 enemies now are equivalent to oldtimer level 100 enemies. You can't compare those old numbers with the current ones.

[Azamagon]

Bump!

* Added more to the Warframe mods section (Powermods, Corrupted powermods, shield/healthmods and Nightmare mods)

* Changed the meleemod Energy Channel (and thus also the revamped Focus Energy) to also store damage to the bonus explosion from STAMINA consumed when blocking and channeling, but the bonus explosion is only triggered upon a non-channeled melee attack.

[Davoodoo]

Tbh op, it sounds reasonable.

 

Ill ask though, i assume that you wont be able to use both corrupted and non corrupted version of mod at once, am i right??

 

And i have another problem with modding, mod stacking. Elemental mods dmg use +damage values for calculations despite every other mod using base dmg. This puts gun dmg way ahead of everything else.

[Azamagon]

Tbh op, it sounds reasonable.

 

Ill ask though, i assume that you wont be able to use both corrupted and non corrupted version of mod at once, am i right??

 

And i have another problem with modding, mod stacking. Elemental mods dmg use +damage values for calculations despite every other mod using base dmg. This puts gun dmg way ahead of everything else.

Maybe a little hard to notice unless you read the OP very thoroughly, but as for the corrupted mods, this is my current position:

 

* Corrupted mods for WEAPONS cannot be stacked with their regular counterparts (i.e. you can't have Serration and Heavy Caliber at once, hence why Heavy Caliber and similar mods are stronger than Serration and similar mods, but come with a penalty)

* Corrupted mods for WARFRAMES can still be stacked though (i.e. Stretch and Overextended are still stackable). This stance of mine is only due to the existence of Primed mods (such as Primed Continuity).

 

About gun damage - Yeah, I know that, it's pretty much the reason why I have nerfed all damage-increasing mods across the board.

 

As a little sidenote about that:

Even if these rebalancings are done, I'd STILL like for us to have 4 modslots (on Warframes, Sentinels, Kubrows and Weapons alike) that are purely for utility. Just to seperate the competition between damage vs utility/QoL. Then the 8 modslots that are for damage (or survivability/powers) are all about HOW you want to deal damage

 

Think about these options:

 

In the 8 combatslots - Maybe add punchthrough? Go for a physical build? Maybe try a speedy high-fire-rate build? A critbuild (which is now generally more useful, due to how I suggested crits work with headshots and stealth)? A statusheavy build, maybe more focused for one element/physical damagetype, in particular now when the plain statusmods are buffed? Or even go for a simple rainbow build? Or go for a min-max anti-corpus/grineer/infested/whatever build?

 

In the 4 utilityslots - Quicker reload? Bigger magazine (or even a MUCH bigger magazine with the corrupted magazine mod, but at the cost of reloadspeed)? Lots more spare ammo? Ammo mutator? Zoom/Range/AoE-mods for longer/bigger range? Recoil reduction? Silence my weapon? Use the newly suggested accuracymods ?

 

So many options and so much possible variety! Isn't that what we ALL want? Min-maxers can do their thing. People that like lots of variety and customization can do their thing. EVERYBODY WINS! :D

Edited April 26, 2015 by Azamagon

[Dawnstrider]

TL:DR plz

 

 

How about you learn to read

 

 

 

 

OP:

 

You did it, you actually did it. Although obviously the enemy scaling will need a look at too since they are linked. The difference between 2 ranks of a mod for a lot of mods is incredibly large, 40% in the case of Redirection and Vitality. How can that be expected to be balanced effectively? The latest devstream revealed DEs thoughts of damage being too "Spiky"

 

Often times people only care about their perspective. We as a community have to consider everyone including new players. Lowering the power gap allows for skill to shine through and for low geared players to still be somewhat helpful even if they are at a disadvantage by comparison. It is feasible that DE could figure out a level cap for enemies where they are still a challenge but not to the point they become bullet sponges that one shot you. On top of this, certain weapons would probably need a look at as well as there is bound to be some numbers that just don't make sense under this new system. It's high time DE stop trying to make us badasses by making us grossly overpowered and instead give us the tools, mechanics and skills needed to do it ourselves. I don't know about the rest of you, but putting a maxed serration on my Boltor Prime isn't my idea of "Skill" in the slightest

[ragingIMP]

Often times people only care about their perspective. We as a community have to consider everyone including new players. Lowering the power gap allows for skill to shine through and for low geared players to still be somewhat helpful even if they are at a disadvantage by comparison. It is feasible that DE could figure out a level cap for enemies where they are still a challenge but not to the point they become bullet sponges that one shot you. On top of this, certain weapons would probably need a look at as well as there is bound to be some numbers that just don't make sense under this new system. It's high time DE stop trying to make us badasses by making us grossly overpowered and instead give us the tools, mechanics and skills needed to do it ourselves. I don't know about the rest of you, but putting a maxed serration on my Boltor Prime isn't my idea of "Skill" in the slightest

 

 

This pretty much nails the problem exactly and I 'll say it again its the variation in power level between new and vet players that is the big issue. Now the OP proposes a valid solution to this problem which is to reduce mod power and therefore overall power variation. This would allow a much nicer enemy scaling in general and I think is the most important first step to balance.

 

Also of note the change in multishot mods would also make them more interesting as they would now no longer be an auto include. These would be good for high fire rate weapons but bad for low fire rate ones meaning more varied builds between weapons.

 

As to the second step of trying to make utility mods better I haven't decided if specialised slots are the answer but what I do know is that the solution to making them more useful/desirable in general is to increase enemy variance. What this means is that right now the best solution to all problems is more damage, having enemies require a more tactical approach that can't just be solved with bigger number would make status and utility look more appetising for people.

[Azamagon]

1) You did it, you actually did it.

2) Although obviously the enemy scaling will need a look at too since they are linked.

3) The difference between 2 ranks of a mod for a lot of mods is incredibly large, 40% in the case of Redirection and Vitality. How can that be expected to be balanced effectively? The latest devstream revealed DEs thoughts of damage being too "Spiky"

 

4) Often times people only care about their perspective. We as a community have to consider everyone including new players. Lowering the power gap allows for skill to shine through and for low geared players to still be somewhat helpful even if they are at a disadvantage by comparison.

5) It is feasible that DE could figure out a level cap for enemies where they are still a challenge but not to the point they become bullet sponges that one shot you.

6) On top of this, certain weapons would probably need a look at as well as there is bound to be some numbers that just don't make sense under this new system.

7) It's high time DE stop trying to make us badasses by making us grossly overpowered and instead give us the tools, mechanics and skills needed to do it ourselves. I don't know about the rest of you, but putting a maxed serration on my Boltor Prime isn't my idea of "Skill" in the slightest

1) Well, I'm TRYING at least :D

2) Yeah, of course

3) How can that (the current numbers) be expected to be balanced effectively? Well, it can't hence why I (and you agreed apparently), everything needs to be toned down to reasonable levels. In particular when you work with percentages, you should ALWAYS be careful with high numbers there. Which is also EXACTLY why everything feels so "spiky"

 

4) EXACTLY, thank you for understanding this! People are unfortunately often too greedy and selfish, thinking about "mah high numberz" instead of looking at the greater picture, for them and the newbies alike.

5) I bet this would be way easier with a lesser power gap and a much gentler scaling in the game overall (offensively and defensively, both for us and the enemies)

6) Of course, these mod rebalances only tries to solve the OVERALL scaling issues. Individual weapons are also part of what is breaking the system, but those are easier to pinpoint.

7) Not only that, but then all the enemies' defense have to adapt to our extremely overpowered output (Such as making Nullifiers, Manics and invulnerability phases in general etc, even though I don't find them all too bad in their ideas, more so in their implementation).

 

I don't mind that we are supposed to be powerful, but that shouldn't come so much from our SCALING, we should have strong weapons and powers BASELINE, and rely on our personal skills to adapt and overcome situations, with mods tweaking and strengthen us a decent bit after that to help overcome those areas of our personal which we might be weaker at. But as it is now, we are SUPER-RELIANT on mods to do anything past Mercury, baseline powers (most of them at least) and personal skill are somewhat secondary, unfortunately.

[DameDameNingen]

As an additional suggestion, the workings of crit mods could be reversed, so that they reduce your chances of not getting a crit, rather than working off base crit chance.

 

For example, if point strike increases crits by 20% and you put it on a weapon with 5% base crit, you get 1 - (0.95 x 0.8) = 34% crit chance. If you put it on a weapon with 25% base crit chance, you get a 40% crit chance.

 

At the moment critical mods are pointless on weapons with low base crit chance, and a no-brainer on others. This would make it more of a choice.

 

Edit: Probably do the same with status chance.

Edited April 26, 2015 by DameDameNingen

[DSpite]

Ummm... that's exactly the OPPOSITE of what I'm trying to accomplish here. Nerf the mods AND nerf the enemy scaling is what I said, not just nerf the mods.

In fact, the low level players would REJOICE of these changes. Because they don't have to a high-level serration and/or split chamber and/or a bunch of elemental mods at once, just to be able to deal some decent damage on the midlevels of the starchart.

 

And the point kind of is to make damagemods a bit more "meh", so they feel a bit more optional rather than 100% necessary. Otherwise, they are NEVER gonna be able to compete with utilitymods. Sure, I'd like even more if we got utilityslots just for utilitymods, so the competition of damage vs utility doesn't even exist. And even if that happened, I'd STILL like to nerf the damagemods, to help the newbies more (as I explained just before).

 

 

 

So, you wanna make damagemods even MORE necessary? Just because you are a veteran (just like I am) doesn't mean that you should make it harder for everyone just because you want more artificial challenge. Add more challenge, by all means (at least on higher level planets), but don't rely SOLELY on enemy scaling for that. Once again, that just screws it up for everyone, more so for the newbies.

 

 

 

Level 30 enemies can kill us perfectly fine, the reason we are near-unkillable is because we have so much avoidance and CC from our abilites, due to how much we can spam our abilities. So that's a different problem.

 

And bring a subparly modded weapon (as in, don't use highlevel mods, don't use a ton of elemental mods, mod for utility in 5 of the slots etc) to highlevel stuff and don't rely on your abilities. You will not kill enemies very easily (especially not Grineer, due to their broken armor scaling, ANOTHER problem) and the enemies will kill you quite easily, since you can't rely on the CC from your abilities.

 

So much for "choices" huh?

 

 

 

*facepalm*

You do know that when they squished down the numbers, they also heavily compressed their scaling, right?

Level 40 enemies now are equivalent to oldtimer level 100 enemies. You can't compare those old numbers with the current ones.

 

I don't think you get it.

 

DE keeps feeding us missions that have enemy units running single file into out bullets and you complain that we kill them too easily, and want Mod nerfs. If we can simply stand in the middle of a corridor and pump bullets in a straight line, it's irrelevant what changes you make to Mods or guns, all that changes is what players decide to pick as a new "corridor" scenario.

 

I want people to actually get killed on the damn Solar Map, not have 95%+ completion rates. There is no incentive for DE to put decent rewards for mission completions when we basically NEVER fail the damn mission. It's not a test of skill, it's a test of patience, the patience to run the missions over and over to pile up large amount of rewards.

 

Enemies ARE supposed to put out dangerous amount of damage, so you won't just stand in the open all the time and hold down the trigger.

 

The StarChart? It's a joke. It should be dangerous to level there, but the truth is, regardless of what the hell you do to try and "balance", an Unranked Frame can still EQUIP a 6 Forma weapon to run all of it. Even if you "balanced" a full Forma gun from 100x base to 5x base it will STILL obliterate most places. A single gun that can output around 1-2K DPS is already overkill on the Solar map, and is TRIVIAL to assemble.

 

"Balance" should be an inherent factor of the MISSION, not based on the fact you can bring OP gear into it. You could make guns that Insta-gib everything and have 5 ROF, but I could still script a mission to be difficult to do, by not allowing enemies to just sit in the open, clump together, and generally run directly at you with a damn meat cleaver in their hands. The fact that DE might have difficulty creating scripted encounters is the main issue, because all we get is "spawn stuff, run at players".

 

 

Warframe Builder - Braton Prime (4 Polarized Slots) :

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Braton_prime/t_30_20002330_132-1-5-133-5-4-134-4-4-137-0-6-141-6-4-153-2-3-156-3-2-355-7-2_137-5-132-15-153-9-156-6-134-5-133-5-141-5-355-6/en/2-0-3

 

(Paper damage : 5887 Burst/4354 Sustained)

 

 

I had THAT Braton Prime in the False Profit mission, and I was killing level 50+ enemies fine. Most people have guns that do 4-5 times that damage output. Imagine THOSE guns on the Starchart, on sub level 30 enemies. I even have 1 mod slot taken up by an Ammo Mutator for goodness sake, I was doing most of the "corridor" shooting while everyone else stayed on the Bursa.

 

Mods break guns because we are allowed to use Forma to polarize ALL 8 slots. not because Mods are broken.

Edited April 26, 2015 by DSpite

[Azamagon]

As an additional suggestion, the workings of crit mods could be reversed, so that they reduce your chances of not getting a crit, rather than working off base crit chance.

 

For example, if point strike increases crits by 20% and you put it on a weapon with 5% base crit, you get 1 - (0.95 x 0.8) = 34% crit chance. If you put it on a weapon with 25% base crit chance, you get a 40% crit chance.

 

At the moment critical mods are pointless on weapons with low base crit chance, and a no-brainer on others. This would make it more of a choice.

 

Edit: Probably do the same with status chance.

That's one way to go around it I guess.

I at least tried to do something about crit mods, by making crit DAMAGE mods useable on any weapon, since I tied critical damage to headshots and stealth attacks. I'll quote it from the original post again:

 

"Critical hit chance is raised just enough for unmodded weapons upon stealth/weakspot hits and when doing ground/stealth/counter finishers to guarantee critical hits, which needs some overall balancing in itself, but the idea is that it allows for modding for skillbased combat, on critweapons and non-critweapons alike!"

 

What do you think about that? :)

 

-snip-

AI needs a change, yes. But considering how powerful we are (a problem with... you guessed it, MODS!) AI can only be looked at AFTER we nerf our insane powers gained through modding.

 

If you want players to actually get killed in general starchart missions, you HAVE to nerf our mods. Running a mission with or without mods makes an insane amount of difference, especially on the higher ends of the starchart, in particular against armored enemies (armor scaling being another problem with Warframe)

 

You state forma as a problem. Yes it can be considered a problem. But why is the forma considered a problem? Because it allows us to equip all of our most powerful mods! Forma is now a part of the game mechanics however, and it is now very hard, if not downright impossible, to remove Forma from the game. How can we limit the impact of Formas then? That's right, by nerfing the power of our damage-increasing mods! Then the difference between a 0-forma and 6-forma Braton Prime wouldn't be so big.

 

And even if formas were taken out, we could still use about 7 slots with our fully empowered mods (Serration, Split Chamber, various elements), so it wouldn't actually help all that much. And weapons with innate polarities? Oh my would they be considered overpowered! Forma is the lesser evil here, the power of the MODS are the reason why Forma is considered so good and also why you see people being able to clear the starchart without breaking a sweat.

 

And you modded your Braton Prime (which is a deceptively powerful weapon now btw) really well for the event. Cold for shields and Corrosive for the armor on the Bursas. If you modded without Corrosive (instead taking... say, Radiation?), you'd have a LOT more problem with the Bursas. Why? Because the impact of our damage-increasing mods are TOO STRONG.

 

Besides, mods aren't the only problem. But they are one of the biggest culprit for our insane power scaling. And this thread is about mods.

[Azamagon]

Bump!

 

Added a whole bunch of things:

 

*** Sorted out what I consider utility contra combat mods in the section --- SPLITTING COMBAT AND UTILITYMODS - THOUGHTS ON THAT ---

 

*** Added a new section, called --- DAMAGED AND PRIMED MODS - WHAT ABOUT THESE? ---

 

*** Explosive weapons (for players and enemies alike) no longer explodes through walls (as in, you can take cover from explosions). Punchthrough, however, adds the ability for explosions to pass through X distance of the environment. Punchthrough no longer causes projectiles with explosive properties to get punchthrough though (it ONLY affects their explosion)

 

**** Added new mods

* Danger Zone - Firestorm-equivalent for secondaries. Works on Angstrum, Stug, Embolist and Castanas (+Sancti Castanas of course)

* Crippling Swarm - Hammershot/Stunning Speed equivalent Nightmare mod for shotguns.

* Silent Thunder - Silencer-equivalent for shotguns.

* Killing Spree + Raging Rhythm - Melee mods giving you a chance to get an additional combo counter point for each melee hit, one regular and one corrupted version.

* Martial Momentum - Melee combo counter time increaser

* Combo Guard - Mod which increases your defenses, related to your combo counter

* Sick Split + Bullet Distortion + Gnashing Swarm - Corrupted multishot mods for Rifles, Pistols and Shotguns respectively.

 

*** Adjusted the following Stamina/Blocking-related mods (due to Stamina going away):

* Acrobat - Now increases the speed of your acrobatic moves, like rolls and dodges (possibly also wallrunning?)

* Marathon - Now reduces the shield recharge delay (could maybe need a name change?)

* Quick Rest - Now heals you over time (think: Non-aura version of Rejuvenation)

* Shield Flux - Now converts shields to ENERGY, when you are out of Energy (at a very bad efficiency rate, along with rather a hefty shieldrecharge delay penalty upon any shield-to-energy conversions)

PLEASE NOTE: I'd like comments to hear if you think this modchange would be too powerful (like, if there is any ability or mod in particular with which this mod would be overpowered with, or just in general)

* Second Wind + Bloodwind (my revamped version of Rending Strike) - Now grants HEALTH on melee kills (not related to channeling either, btw)

* Warrior's Grip - Increases your blocking angle (allowing you to block attacks that are angle slightly from behind too!)

* Parry - Now makes regular blocks more reliable to counterstun meleeing enemies (similar to how it works currently), while ALSO causing channeled blocks against melee enemies to stun in an AoE with a prolonged stuneffect! (Note: Unmodded channeled blocks guarantee counterstuns, but consume 5 energy. This channelblock AoE-stun still also consumes 5 energy, due to its enhanced effects)

 

*** General mod changes:

* Berserker - Now gives a bonus to melee attackspeed as well as a damage reduction on EACH melee hit, while critical hits are still better, as they grant more stacks.

[Kurtys]

Really like you ideas.

Even if i love the game and the dev team, i'm kinda sad that they never tried to balance the core of the game (aka mods and enemy scaling/AI) to make something more mind puzzling(in an enjoyable way) in term of customisation, instead of just putting all the damage mods on your weapons and call it done.

 

Just 3 things i would like to add :

 

- Armor scaling : Either the health scaling should be reduce a bit or Armor should never scale and should be a fix values with different values for different body parts. Like, a grineer lancer could have 80% damage reduction on body shot, 50% DR on arms and legs and a 200-300% damage multiplier on head shot (aka weakspot). I liked it when, in damage 1.0, corpus crewmen were immune to headshot until you would had punchthrough or armor piercing on your weapons to go through their helmet.

 

- Skill > Power Creep : I don't think critical stats should be that good. ONE, because, either your weapon as good crit stats and you can mod it to become a crit god, OR your weapon don't have good crit stats and you can ignore it totally. TWO, because it's just an insane, but still basic, DPS increase when you mod for it. What i suggest is to decrease the critical chance to make it more like a lucky event and had a new set of mods and a new stats on weapons that increase damage multiplier on weakspot (this could potentialy be the buff precision weapons, like snipers and carbines, needs!).

 

- Skill mods : I would really like to have powerful mods that activate only when doing certain things, like variation of serration that gives less %base damage but give a good bonus %dmg when, i don't know, shooting while being in the air, or wall-running, or when shooting specific parts of bodies.

Maybe some exotic mods like "Melee : 2-3 seconds of Invulnerabilty/Heavy DR after a ground finisher", "Sniper & bow : projectiles leave a mark on the enemy, shooting the mark increase damage of the projectile by 50%", "Secondary : +50-100% damage when downed", "Warframe or Secondary : Switching to your secondary after you have unloaded your primary gives you a +50% damage increase for 5 seconds" (btw, switching weapons should not be that long imo, especially primary>secondary/melee), "Warframe : Can use your first abilty when downed", "Warframe : 25-50% damage reduction and +25-50% weapon damage when a teamate is down(either 25 cumulative, so 3 teammate down =75 or 50 non-cumulative)", etc etc

Edited July 4, 2015 by Kurtys

[5h1n0k4m1]

i stopped by to drop an eye, and found myself insulted while reading the ridiculous percentage of multishot you would grant

6% - 36%

are you serious ?

that is not even multishot, that's barely a very low chance at shotting a second bullet

 

i could not get further after this outrageous bit

[Azamagon]

Really like you ideas.

Even if i love the game and the dev team, i'm kinda sad that they never tried to balance the core of the game (aka mods and enemy scaling/AI) to make something more mind puzzling(in an enjoyable way) in term of customisation, instead of just putting all the damage mods on your weapons and call it done.

 

Just 3 things i would like to add :

 

- Armor scaling : Either the health scaling should be reduce a bit or Armor should never scale and should be a fix values with different values for different body parts. Like, a grineer lancer could have 80% damage reduction on body shot, 50% DR on arms and legs and a 200-300% damage multiplier on head shot (aka weakspot). I liked it when, in damage 1.0, corpus crewmen were immune to headshot until you would had punchthrough or armor piercing on your weapons to go through their helmet.

 

- Skill > Power Creep : I don't think critical stats should be that good. ONE, because, either your weapon as good crit stats and you can mod it to become a crit god, OR your weapon don't have good crit stats and you can ignore it totally. TWO, because it's just an insane, but still basic, DPS increase when you mod for it. What i suggest is to decrease the critical chance to make it more like a lucky event and had a new set of mods and a new stats on weapons that increase damage multiplier on weakspot (this could potentialy be the buff precision weapons, like snipers and carbines, needs!).

 

- Skill mods : I would really like to have powerful mods that activate only when doing certain things, like variation of serration that gives less %base damage but give a good bonus %dmg when, i don't know, shooting while being in the air, or wall-running, or when shooting specific parts of bodies.

Maybe some exotic mods like "Melee : 2-3 seconds of Invulnerabilty/Heavy DR after a ground finisher", "Sniper & bow : projectiles leave a mark on the enemy, shooting the mark increase damage of the projectile by 50%", "Secondary : +50-100% damage when downed", "Warframe or Secondary : Switching to your secondary after you have unloaded your primary gives you a +50% damage increase for 5 seconds" (btw, switching weapons should not be that long imo, especially primary>secondary/melee), "Warframe : Can use your first abilty when downed", "Warframe : 25-50% damage reduction and +25-50% weapon damage when a teamate is down(either 25 cumulative, so 3 teammate down =75 or 50 non-cumulative)", etc etc

Thanks!

 

- Armor scaling. Yeah, it needs a good look at, as I mentioned in the beginning.

 

- Skill > Power Creep. Hence why I suggested the nerfs to those mods AND the addition of "enough boost to critical chance upon doing headshots/sneakattacks to get guaranteed critical hits, unmodded". More reliant on skill, less on RNG.

 

- Skill mods: Well, those are potential additions, of course. Some of those were already partially added though. Check my revamp of Provoked, for example, I made it a kind of risk/reward mod now, while retaining its "downed" bonus TOO. But I don't like that some of those you suggested purely promote bad play (bonus purely when you/teammate being downed etc). Bonuses on weakspots, upon special attacks (like the ground finisher one, that one is good), upon consecutive landing hits, while during acrobatics, those are what I'd call good SKILLBASED-mods. Mods based purely on bad circumstances happening, not as much.

 

 

i stopped by to drop an eye, and found myself insulted while reading the ridiculous percentage of multishot you would grant

6% - 36%

are you serious ?

that is not even multishot, that's barely a very low chance at shotting a second bullet

 

i could not get further after this outrageous bit

Sad to hear that. I mean, that's kind of the point though, to make these mods less necessary. And it's also the reason I added the Corrupt multishot mods (which give 100% multishot at the cost of damage), for those that enjoy having more reliability and/or lots of bullets flying at all times. Damagemods shouldn't be as insanely strong as they are now, that's the reason we have such bad enemy scaling (and invulnerability phases and damagecaps on more and more of the new enemies).

[5h1n0k4m1]

Damagemods shouldn't be as insanely strong as they are now, that's the reason we have such bad enemy scaling (and invulnerability phases and damagecaps on more and more of the new enemies).

did you get past the tutorial ?

did you even been on ceres, for an hour survival ?

 

how could we get to face against very high level mobs, if we cannot even kill them?

[Aizeol]

did you get past the tutorial ?

did you even been on ceres, for an hour survival ?

 

how could we get to face against very high level mobs, if we cannot even kill them?

 

Because the game wouldn't just stay the same.  Even DE said that they would have to go back and basically give us Damage 2.5/3.0 because the change would reach that far.

[5h1n0k4m1]

Because the game wouldn't just stay the same.  Even DE said that they would have to go back and basically give us Damage 2.5/3.0 because the change would reach that far.

so, you're implying that they will kill our ability to face against a mob that is way higher level than highest level planet

 

sounds very nice :''(

[Aizeol]

so, you're implying that they will kill our ability to face against a mob that is way higher level than highest level planet

 

sounds very nice :''(

 

Is that what I said? or is that just what you're afraid of?  This game won't stop being a power-trip just because it's balanced correctly.

 

 

The point is that the game should be more closely balanced around player skill and mechanics than the mods.  Because of the extreme difference in power between new players and "veterans", balancing content is a nightmare.  We should definitely have some kind of increase in power that makes end-level content impossible without good gear, but the difference doesn't need to be quite as drastic if the game required more skill from the player. (Other than trying to dodge hit-scan aimbots)

[Azamagon]

did you get past the tutorial ?

did you even been on ceres, for an hour survival ?

 

how could we get to face against very high level mobs, if we cannot even kill them?

Oh please. I'm a MR19 player that has cleared the startchart etc. Don't get me start on those things.

 

How would we face them? Did you miss that I said enemy defensive scaling would also be reduced? Armor in particular.

 

Because the game wouldn't just stay the same.  Even DE said that they would have to go back and basically give us Damage 2.5/3.0 because the change would reach that far.

Exactly

 

so, you're implying that they will kill our ability to face against a mob that is way higher level than highest level planet

 

sounds very nice :''(

Drama much? Look at the bigger picture. These changes are intended fixing absurd scaling, on our weapons and enemies alike. This is particularly good for flat-damage Warframe powers. Relax please >_>

[5h1n0k4m1]

Relax please >_>

who is not relax ?

you, because you feel op

or the newbies you helping every days or often, because they seeing you as op

[Azamagon]

who is not relax ?

you, because you feel op

or the newbies you helping every days or often, because they seeing you as op

Heh, I'm completely relaxed, I told you to relax because you were using a crying emoticon. So once again, relax about these suggestions, they are all with good intentions of a better balanced game.

 

Aaaanyway, added/tweaked the following mods:

Steel Fiber, Armoured Agility and Seeking Fury

Edited July 5, 2015 by Azamagon

[sickness24]

When going over your weapon mods the (primed) charged chamber suggestions caught my eye.  

Not so much the damage changes but that you want it to work on bows as well. Wich is mechanicly impossible since it says first shot in the clip, wich bows dont have. the obvious solution would be first shot in the quiver wich roughly translates to only the first shot you do in a mission or the first shot you do when you have max ammo. Wich would make it either massivly useless or grossly overpowered. And considering bows currently already are more combat usefull than snipers in many peoples opinions it stands to reason that this kind of thing isnt really neccesary

[zoboso]

Quick rest should be the PVE version of Quick Charge.

[Azamagon]

When going over your weapon mods the (primed) charged chamber suggestions caught my eye.  

Not so much the damage changes but that you want it to work on bows as well. Wich is mechanicly impossible since it says first shot in the clip, wich bows dont have. the obvious solution would be first shot in the quiver wich roughly translates to only the first shot you do in a mission or the first shot you do when you have max ammo. Wich would make it either massivly useless or grossly overpowered. And considering bows currently already are more combat usefull than snipers in many peoples opinions it stands to reason that this kind of thing isnt really neccesary

Very good point. I'll remove the charged chamber mods being bow-compatible :)

 

Quick rest should be the PVE version of Quick Charge.

That's what I did to Marathon, actually, while I suggested Quick Rest to be a personal version of Rejuvenation. Of course the functions could be swapped (Marathon = HP regen, Quick Rest = Shorter shield recharge delay)