Preventing Camp-Easy Mode Play In Void. Feedback + Solutions.

[Davoodoo]

Solution is so simple its  hilarious.

 

4 guys standing in tight space?? They are not moving an inch for 2 minutes now?? Throw a grenade.

 

Rly make a proper indicator for grenades and designate areas where enemy will literally spam them from long range if they see clustered players in there.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Davoodoo

[RafaelFuchs]

Players have a urge to optimize instead of having fun. I do not think that camping needs to go, just that camping does not always have to be the most effective strategy.

it's made effective because the way the devs set up their missions. our only endless missions are defensive style missions...congrats you figured that out. 3 of them are literally defenses (defense, excavation [the over glorified defense] and our ever so loved interception [ever heard of domination on CoD? yeah this is warframe's version]) of course defensive style strategies will work exceptionally well...survival also a defensive style mission, but with a twist of life support juggling. 

 

we have missions that these so called "most effective strategies" don't work. we got exterminate, capture and so on. please do tell me how me standing in a corner somewhere killing everything in a spy mission will help me complete the mission at hand?

 

anyways, this suggestion isn't addressing the "issue" of camping. it's just pointing out that our only endless missions are a defensive style. why not make an endless mission that combines a bunch of objectives? what's stopping you guys from making a fan-concept mission that does this? be my guest at doing it. i love new missions to fool around with personally. those orokin sabotages and spy 2.0s won't keep me entertained forever.

 

EDIT: my nonsense that doesn't offer anything particularly helpful to the thread

 [rant] also, what's stopping you from making a squad that isn't going to camp? i did one yesterday morning at 5am EST and it was T3S. the people were shocked at me saying "no, we're not camping. this is my key and we do things my way." so we had no vauban, greedy mag or mesa. guess what too, we went 40m then left because the one had to go for work. not because it got hard, not because we were ineffective at surviving and not because people we got bored. we didn't have 4x CP either. you whine about camping being the most effective, but i seen no issue with running around like chickens with our heads chopped off. LS stayed above 40% the entire time not needing to hit LS at all. if you want to run these missions like that then use your own keys. people will join and they will do it your way because guess what...your keys, your rules. [/rant]

Edited April 8, 2015 by RafaelFuchs

[xFrostKnightx]

I've been playing lots t4 t3 survivals and I keep noticing the same thing over and over again. People camping with Vauban's Vortex and easily doing 40+min just by spamming abilities and shooting enemies.

Surely De could just nerf Vortex/Torid/GPull/EV etc or rework the sewers or add more op enemies that will just cancel abilities/ insta-kill in unreachable places but this would greatly affect newer players and won't fix the problem, there will always be another way.

 

Currently, if you camp in 1 spot, enemies only spawn in the closest rooms and just rush towards you. At the end, enemies are only in that area, while other places in the map are just empty. Hence, I consider this a bit of an exploit/broken mechanics.  

 

How to fix it:

I suggest that enemies do not travel more than 2 "rooms" (or certain range) unless they see you.

Or 

Putting a limit of how many enemies can spawn while you are staying in the same room. Meanwhile, spawning enemies in other rooms.

Also

Introduce Corrupted "Power Carriers" that guarantee to drop life support capsules when killed. Probably should use the corpus ones since they are easier to kill and we already have lots of grineer units. Make them spawn a little at the beginning and increase the spawn rate as the time goes. This way players can still do long runs And won't need to have Nekros to go past 1h.

 

Overall, this would allow players to play long runs without needing to camp/nerfs, allows using other frames since you don't have to bring "staple" frames, and makes the game more enjoyable. It makes more of an actual survival game. 

 

OP is brilliant, a shining icon amongst players.

 

Why play survival when we can play marathon's?!!! :D

 

#1 - You make Frames Useless - Banshee/Frost/Mesa/Vauban and this is just off the top of my head!

 

#2 - You Destroy the survival mode and turn it into a Race

#3 - You Force running non-stop and people have no choice but to hold W down for 20-60 minutes.

#4 - You Need air? Too bad, that one enemy who drops air has over 9,000 Armour and 50k health!!

[Inez]

The best part of this is how the OP is leeching off others' keys in recruiting, and still complaining about how they play. Not just complaining, but asking DE to force these same people who generously hosted their keys to play just like him.

 

He could farm his own keys and host his own non-farm groups. But I suppose complaining in the forums is easier.

[taiiat]

Make them spawn a little at the beginning and increase the spawn rate as the time goes. This way players can still do long runs And won't need to have Nekros to go past 1h.

but with the months and months of Survival changes we've been working on, you no longer need to have Desecrate to be able to be successful with Survival.

Desecrate makes Life Support not an issue anymore, your only task left then is to continue Killing Enemies quickly.

it's working just fine. you don't need loot multiplication, but it's still useful.

some more adjustments can be made to Enemy Spawns to continue having them spawn correctly regardless of what cubby hole you are hiding in.

that should fix any sort of issue here. you can hide in the 'Orokin Bunker Sewer' if you'd like, but Enemies will still spawn a couple rooms away as they usually do otherwise.

[holdenagincourt]

Whether one agrees or disagrees with the suggestions in the topic, the "don't force others to play a certain way" argument is a red herring.

 

The topic creator, himself, does not and never will have the power to change incentives within missions and the larger game to encourage people to play a certain way.

 

The people who do are DE, and they do this all the time. In fact, most major updates since the game's inception have been them changing facts about the game to smash the dominance of certain strategies (Damage 2.0 was introduced largely to combat the hegemony of rainbow builds, Melee 2.0 was in part a response to charge attack spam, Viver becoming Infested and the far-reaching changes to the Interception game mode to combat rep farming). You may not like it, but DE force changes to the game all the time, and usually because people are approaching it in too uniform and efficient a manner.

 

What players can control is their response to these changes, which is where the discussion of the underlying reasons for this strategy come from.

[Tr1ples1xer]

my argument to this thread is simple. why are you forcing your playstyle onto others? 

This need to be quoted again and again in a lot of posts here.

[RealPandemonium]

I don't see the big issue here they make a huge grind wall and we find ways to actually get around it somewhat and people call it exploiting the game. We're using frames in whole groups and teamwork to make something mind-meltingly grindy somewhat less grindy. But no we should all just use 40 t3 keys to not get volt prime chassis. We're not glitching or using any cheats we're making a team specifically designed to survive in survival. If DE does not agree with the ways we do that maybe they should lessen the grind and make survival fun and not a huge grind fest.

 

Also how is what we do on ODD different from what we do in survival ? Vauban spams vortex and speed nova and we clean house sure there's a pod but with the right team it's not really in any danger, just like with the right team you can survive an hour in t3 survival.

Doing the things you describe should be dynamic and exciting, as well as rewarding.  Currently they are static, dull affairs that are only marginally rewarding as you may have to complete dozens (for some, more) of 40 minute missions just to get one part from the recent prime accesses.  T4 survival should be survivial, not a sewer lawn party where we sit in lounge chairs and Vauban keeps flushing the toilet while Nova spreads your group's lethargy to the enemies.  Rhino throws a tantrum that makes every enemy on the block give up, Trinity pumps you with heroin so that you can't feel anything, and Loki convinces enemies that there's a Piñata full of credits in the toilet (What a trickster!)  

[Fifield]

my argument to this thread is simple. why are you forcing your playstyle onto others? 

 

If I actually had that power the answer would be:

1. It makes for an objectively much better game, which means more fun for us and more money for DE to create more content.

2. Sometimes groups say they'll camp for 40 mins but end up wanting to go for 1 hour 40mins -- and 1 person cannot exit the mission without losing all rewards.

So in fact, it's your playstyle you're "forcing" on everyone else.

Secondly, why are you trying to limit free speech?

Solution is so simple its  hilarious.

 

4 guys standing in tight space?? They are not moving an inch for 2 minutes now?? Throw a grenade.

 

Rly make a proper indicator for grenades and designate areas where enemy will literally spam them from long range if they see clustered players in there.

 

Nice idea but they'd have to be able to bounce it off 2 walls and through a Vortex (think sewers).

I've put a lot of thought into it and what I said in comment #7 is the best I've seen: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/436575-preventing-camp-easy-mode-play-in-void-feedback-solutions/#entry4839493

Edited April 8, 2015 by Fifield

[Tyreuzs]

i wish this would be implemented... i hate camping but sadly that is the only way to get that far in a survival mission....

[osuman]

As always, many just put their own words in other's mouses and blow an elephant out of a small change.

1. This is a feedback with a possible solution.

2. I'm not forcing anyone to just run around the map. These changes would mostly affect those that do camping similar to sewer camps, while keeping everything else relatively same.

3. This change will have a better long term effect.

As it is currently (no changes) it is easy to predict that De would rework sewers and/or nerfs some things ex Vortex. What would same campers do next? Maybe go into those hidden rooms where enemies can't get them, bring greedy pull, shield polarize mag, some nuker, maybe hydroid for extra life support, and they would be able to sustain themselves until De nerfs them too.

With changes (tweaking the spawn rate and how enemies behave) the game will stay relative same And will prevent future sewer-like camp styles without need to do all that extra work.

Edited April 8, 2015 by osuman

[Fifield]

How to fix it:

I suggest that enemies do not travel more than 2 "rooms" (or certain range) unless they see you.

Or 

Putting a limit of how many enemies can spawn while you are staying in the same room. Meanwhile, spawning enemies in other rooms.

 

I still don't understand how spawning works, but staying in one of the really large rooms isn't what I'd call camping.  Also, every single room on every single tileset would have to be annotated by hand.

What stops a Loki (generally needed anyway) from running outside every so often?  Or if there are no enemies, surely anyone can run out and back.

It's also not a solution which helps immersion.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Fifield

[Don_T_Shoot]

What about new spoiler mobs?    DE has already taken some pages out of the Left4Dead handbook with Mutalists, and sort of with the Manic.

Mobs that would hold back and not rush into the vortex/gas/cloud tentacles/whatever  and send some chaos into tightly packed complacent groups?

 

Spitters/Chargers/Tanks, you know the type.   Mini-bosses that require a shift in tactics.  Maybe not as cheap as the Nullifiers but with some ability to resist our Voidly Magic to survive long enough that we have to pay attention.

 

Easier said than done of course.

[RafaelFuchs]

If I actually had that power the answer would be:

1. It makes for an objectively much better game, which means more fun for us and more money for DE to create more content.

2. Sometimes groups say they'll camp for 40 mins but end up wanting to go for 1 hour 40mins -- and 1 person cannot exit the mission without losing all rewards.

So in fact, it's your playstyle you're "forcing" on everyone else.

Secondly, why are you trying to limit free speech?

here's how i run things in warframe, key holder's rules. if you don't want to do something someone else's way then why are you joining their group? your key, your rules... if they don't like it then tell them to leave because someone else will gladly take their place.

 

i don't join your group and tell you how to play nor do you know how i play. i actually listed the contrary in my rant in the spoiler of my one post.

 

first, read my posts. i never told you that you need to keep quiet or anything trying to silence you. you're making the issue here because i literally told you instead of focusing on survival why not make ideas for new mission types that make running around and endless work together? the game needs more, new diverse missions in my opinion.

 

EDIT: spelling!

Edited April 8, 2015 by RafaelFuchs

[Davoodoo]

Nice idea but they'd have to be able to bounce it off 2 walls and through a Vortex (think sewers).

As far as im concerned as long as they have indicator(players should know why they died) they can go through walls for that specific purpose.

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

Lol go cry op

Don't ruin a play style because you don't like it

[(PSN)iBoiz]

ok

Edited April 9, 2015 by (PS4)iBoiz

[Fifield]

here's how i run things in warframe, key holder's rules. if you don't want to do something someone else's way then why are you joining their group? your key, your rules... if they don't like it then tell them to leave because someone else will gladly take their place.

 

And if they change their minds from what they said before the mission starts?

@Davoodoo, people complain about attacks going through walls hence I prefer my solution.  Yours would be easier to implement though.

[Kletse]

He without sin, throw the 1st rock.

[RafaelFuchs]

And if they change their minds from what they said before the mission starts?

ignore them and move on. you'll sort out liers pretty quick at that rate if it's such a big issue for you. my past experiences with this game (that's over 1000h of mission time) tell me that as long as it's your key and you know how to be a leader people will follow your instruction aside from the few rebels/leechers who you can very easily block and forget. a sad, but true statement is gear check people. see how long they've played, what MR they and what their conclave is. that'll tell you if they're dead weight or not. someone who only has >400 conclave will most likely be of little to no use. empathy for a newbie is nonexistent when i'm trying to do higher level content such as a t3 defense for 40 waves.

 

i'm no saint, but i also get things done when i need to. if i want to do an extended duration survival then i will. if i want to run around like a mad man the whole time then i will. no doubt in myself or my squad that i picked. learn game mechanics so you know what you're doing as well. you don't have to learn the entire game in one night, but if you want to play seriously then act suriously.

[Fifield]

ignore them and move on. you'll sort out liers pretty quick at that rate if it's such a big issue for you.

 

Tens of thousands of people play this game.  And they're not lying, they just change their mind.  Also, it can't be my key every time and it's sometimes awkward to ask.

Along with embarrassing game design, I do expect DE to fix camping.

[Tyreuzs]

Tens of thousands of people play this game.  And they're not lying, they just change their mind.  Also, it can't be my key every time and it's sometimes awkward to ask.

Along with embarrassing game design, I do expect DE to fix camping.

agreed.

Camping ruins the gamemode... It isnt fun at all

Edited April 9, 2015 by Tyreuzs

[RafaelFuchs]

i wish that there are more people like you out there that dont want to camp ._. i haate it and i dont understand why people do. Its not fun at all. And games are made to be fun.. or am im wrong?

lol i don't even have to ask now. you posted the answer to my question i was about to ask on another thread i followed. glad to know you hate it. simple answer is don't do it then. longer answer i've posted many times throughout this thread.

 

 

why are people trying to be a fascist about how they play a game? marvel me with your answers because i'm obvious in the dark here. don't cram your way of doing something down other people's throats. however, if you are the one holding the key then do as you please. there are obviously enough people in this game who don't want to camp to make groups with just as there are enough people to make camping groups.

[Fifield]

why are people trying to be a fascist about how they play a game?

 

Already proved you're one of these people who's trying to force others how to play a game.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Fifield

[RafaelFuchs]

Already proved you're one of these people who's trying to force others how to play a game.

you're right i do. when i host (my key) a game i expect people to play by my rules. when others host the game (their key) i play by their rules. i also ask for a rundown of how we do are going to do thing before we even start the mission.  if i don't like how the host is doing something i kindly decline their offer to carry me into a mission and leave. no harm done other than i made them waste 30 seconds of their time typing out what we're doing.

 

is there something wrong with this? honestly if you wish for a conversation about how i do things then message me, there's no need to derail this thread to being locked for being off topic.